Mage's Skills

[ImKitKit]

I suggest that u make mage skills' range bye ur weapon range. like archers.
its too lame if its only 25.. so i suggest.. :)

[Mehran]

I suggest that u make mage skills' range bye ur weapon range. like archers.
its too lame if its only 25.. so i suggest.. :)

this seems good, but mages have superiority in many fields. Besides do you want the fastest casting classes to be able to cast such spells at a hunter's range? As said, mages have a barrier, easy sustained mana+hp, and many helpful ally spells and cc's. That being said, most mages would skill the staff tree and go sm with their most powerful spell. So maybe a few spells... Oh wait terror is staff ranged, you're good. :P

[ImKitKit]

Haha thx :) i suggest that cause what arcane projection use for. mage dun use normal attack right ? so let skills be ranged by weapon range :))

[ImKitKit]

maybe ivy or else ? :)

[Mehran]

Well will domain and ambush use to have a much higher range, so the decrease in these knock spells has increased more tree hugging. Primarily because warriors can run trees now without being knocked at 20m haha. But maybe a few spells for warlock. I mean a conjurer is hard to kill 20m away from her allies with her 15-25m heal spells, can't make it more. And if a warlock gets one spell down, its an easy chain death.

there are a lot of changes needed to the game, and they will happen (some good, some bad), but the mage class is decent for now. Everything is decent for now. Please. Stop changing my game!! XD

[standistortion]

but the mage class is decent for now
Lol, guess you don't play mage much. CS nerfs and damage boosts have ruined conj, by the time 'life saviour' is finished casting the target is dead but it doesn't matter as 2 hits from a barb will do more damage than it heals anyway. Then you have to wait 60 seconds for it to cd because its such a 'powerful' spell but you still have your normal heals which are about equal to the normal damage of a marks hit and have a 5 second cd.

Locks are great, even knights with defensive stance can kill a lock in a few hits so they make a nice easy target for anyone who wants a few quick rp's, don't worry about those 'awesome' cc's because banners make them completely useless. A locks best spell is slow which they get to use every 60 seconds and is usually dispelled within 3, they have some great DoT's too with are usually dispelled almost immediately because they have really obvious animations. A lock either spends all their time at the very back of the group (marks love locks too) waiting for their areas to cd (then waiting for fools without banners) or on the ground waiting for a rez (sorry conj's). Try it sometime, its great.

fastest casting classes
Lol'd at that, slowest casting classes by far with a buff that has to be re-cast every 60 seconds to get normal cast speeds. Should I waste my breath saying it should be a passive? Nah, that's been said enough times to wear out any keyboard. The OP's suggestions have been mentioned many times before as has the suggestion that intelligence should do something useful and staves should do something more than let someone know they are targeted. Don't worry though, once mages are turned into a gear dependant class they'll get some lovin, its good for sales ;)

[Archonaut]

....

Huge +1 man, exactly the same feeling coming from here.

[Slartibartfast]

this seems good, but mages have superiority in many fields. Besides do you want the fastest casting classes to be able to cast such spells at a hunter's range? As said, mages have a barrier, easy sustained mana+hp, and many helpful ally spells and cc's. That being said, most mages would skill the staff tree and go sm with their most powerful spell. So maybe a few spells... Oh wait terror is staff ranged, you're good. :P

This lvl5 barrier is pierced by marks in 2-3 hits in long range. Another couple of hits and lock is down, even he haven't came to the casting range.

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Slartibartfast

[Mehran]

.....


I disagree, plenty. Conjurers are hard to kill, even by marx and they save more than you can dish out in time. I have played my conjurer recently and I did just fine as I can keep a target alive enough to kill 2 barbs and 2 Marx without them killing me. Needless to say, conjurer is a class best played by those who know how to play it :P

And really? Really?? What dumb mage would be stupid enough not to skill arcane devotion? Regardless, mages DO HAVE the fastest in the game, even though the whole cs thing has been completely changed.

Regardless on mage's note, THEY ARE FINE. Lmao. Trust me, they are fine. Every class is fine and nobody is really OP. Yes it gets irritating at times, but honestly everyone has a chance at everyone, even if you have to use the environmental rock/tree to "even" things up. Besides, if this RO is too much for you, you would have 0% chance 4 years ago where it was spell or die for mages with 1 resist = pretty much dead. But the whole evasion/resist thing wasn't so messed up either.

tsk tsk, eh eh. People need to be grateful this is a FtP and stop wanting changes. Changes isn't always good!! I miss realm chat in WZ, I miss good ole save wars, and I miss boss fighting as a whole for the fun. Also old spells like 50% ds, 1k dmg terrors (which use to be chained...back when locks ruled the game and conjs were gods), and 4k barb crits. So no, everything is just fine when you think about all the nerfing that has happened in the years.

[Slartibartfast]

I disagree, plenty. Conjurers are hard to kill, even by marx and they save more than you can dish out in time. I have played my conjurer recently and I did just fine as I can keep a target alive enough to kill 2 barbs and 2 Marx without them killing me. Needless to say, conjurer is a class best played by those who know how to play it :P

And really? Really?? What dumb mage would be stupid enough not to skill arcane devotion? Regardless, mages DO HAVE the fastest in the game, even though the whole cs thing has been completely changed.

Regardless on mage's note, THEY ARE FINE. Lmao. Trust me, they are fine. Every class is fine and nobody is really OP. Yes it gets irritating at times, but honestly everyone has a chance at everyone, even if you have to use the environmental rock/tree to "even" things up. Besides, if this RO is too much for you, you would have 0% chance 4 years ago where it was spell or die for mages with 1 resist = pretty much dead. But the whole evasion/resist thing wasn't so messed up either.

tsk tsk, eh eh. People need to be grateful this is a FtP and stop wanting changes. Changes isn't always good!! I miss realm chat in WZ, I miss good ole save wars, and I miss boss fighting as a whole for the fun. Also old spells like 50% ds, 1k dmg terrors (which use to be chained...back when locks ruled the game and conjs were gods), and 4k barb crits. So no, everything is just fine when you think about all the nerfing that has happened in the years.

Not to start the flame war, but read this post (or the whole thread) which perfectly sums all of the mage problems:

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=86725

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Slartibartfast

[Shwish]

I suggest that u make mage skills' range bye ur weapon range. like archers.
its too lame if its only 25.. so i suggest.. :)

Maybe not all spells, but at least Twister to make it on par with the other 3 second cast time areas.

[Mehran]

Not to start the flame war, but read this post (or the whole thread) which perfectly sums all of the mage problems:

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=86725

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Slartibartfast

I was starting to read it, than thought to myself. You know what? - People never do smart tactics anymore. Every fort fight everyone lines up and takes hits by marx, ofc course mages will think it's unfair, nobody does side maneuvers anymore. I remember when me and a couple of my friends (maybe like a conj, 2 locks, 2 barbs) could easily defeat +15 people with our 5 people on the road (this all being at Agg), by just coming in from the side, areaing and killing their conjs. Smart tactics, not smart players, and then complaints. Maybe you should try different plans on different classes before thinking of being "underpowered." Even if you have 0% extra cs, if you're smart and a sneaky lock you can get an area in to help beat them. And smart conjs know how to be at a safe distance and heal properly. I've seen it happen, so I'm sorry you just need more practice.

Examples of locks: Zodar, Nel, Repoor, Plunder, Fuerst, Hepha, La, rhanya, Hel, etc.

Examples of conjs: Syrtisa, Ieti, Icemon, AKM, Erica, Asdaf, etc.

If you're having problems, keep a close eye on these individuals and many more. (I see that some of them do not currently play, or have retired, changed name, etc., but the point is the same)

[LittleHomer]

i think there is an interesting thread about this ...


http://www.regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86725&page=6

[NotScias]

I was starting to read it, than thought to myself. You know what? [...] Maybe you should try different plans on different classes before thinking of being "underpowered." [...] so I'm sorry you just need more practice.

I'm sorry that you couldn't stand reading proper logic and reason for too long.
In this thread, you would have learnt a lot about how this game, like any standard RPG is supposed to work, and why it currently isn't for 1/3 of the current classes.
You'd have also learnt that the issues mages are facing now are beyond puny over or underpoweredness matters.

Examples of locks: Zodar, Nel, Repoor, Plunder, Fuerst, Hepha, La, rhanya, Hel, etc.

Examples of conjs: Syrtisa, Ieti, Icemon, AKM, Erica, Asdaf, etc.

If you're having problems, keep a close eye on these individuals and many more. (I see that some of them do not currently play, or have retired, changed name, etc., but the point is the same)

Very true and this applies to you primarily.
Maybe are you wondering why the vast majority of these players (including myself) are no longer playing this game or switched to another class ? Ask them directly : Here's Surfacing's (http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showpost.php?p=1529421&postcount=12), Zodar's (http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showpost.php?p=1529348&postcount=8), ieti's (http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showpost.php?p=1529382&postcount=11), Hepha's (http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showpost.php?p=1529456&postcount=13) opinions about this subject and a phletora of other well known or not mages from all the realms and servers in the other pages of the topic you haven't obviously read, about mechanics you obviously don't understand, about a class that you obviously have no experience nor knowledge about.


Anyways, somehow I'm not really surprised to see this coming from someone that has never been playing past lvl20 conjurer for a few weeks. Why make well argumented posts when you can just make clueless ones based on herpderp OP!!!1 and how supposedly awesome you are. :rolleyes2:

[VandaMan]

I wish I still cared enough to make Mehran look more retarded than he already does. Keep fighting the good fight, Scias! <o/

[Mehran]

.....

I simply do not read a thread that is beyond 5 pages because it is too long and i have better things to do with my time than hear the same thing over and over.

But on the post of your poorly proven post. I never said that mages do not need some sort of ... "boost?" I just clearly said that no changes requiring spell's ranges should be altered. Besides, there are plenty of mages who are doing WELL under the following cs circumstances and let the problem not affect them. It's called adapting, and if you weren't so quick to change classes because it's not the "OP" one, you would understand how to adapt to NGD's changes.

And you are trying to combine many issues into one with the insulting of my intelligence? Ha. This part amuses me because you know nothing about me or how smart I am. As in.. This is a game, I act goofy and try to have fun with it, i'm sorry you are Mr.Serious? On a related point, I assure you I do know the game's mechanics and fundamental outlines, I may not know the exemplar coding or how it runs, but I do know the classes and have grown attached to them throughout my time playing. Secondly you saying I don't have a conjurer above lvl.20, I do, and level has nothing to do with anything, I see the wiki and know almost every single spell by heart, (mana cost, duration, cd, range, etc). So stop trying to assume too much because it makes you unintelligent.


I wish I still cared enough to make Mehran look more retarded than he already does. Keep fighting the good fight, Scias! <o/

Oh and Van, you obviously must care a decent amount to be posting on a thread that you were not apart of until your "keep-me-close-or-i-cry" buddy commented. And i find it funny how you guys posted within 9 minutes of each other, did you call him to ask when he would troll me so you can be apart of it too? Cute.

[ieti]

I disagree, plenty. Conjurers are hard to kill, even by marx and they save more than you can dish out in time. I have played my conjurer recently and I did just fine as I can keep a target alive enough to kill 2 barbs and 2 Marx without them killing me. Needless to say, conjurer is a class best played by those who know how to play it :P

And really? Really?? What dumb mage would be stupid enough not to skill arcane devotion? Regardless, mages DO HAVE the fastest in the game, even though the whole cs thing has been completely changed.

Regardless on mage's note, THEY ARE FINE. Lmao. Trust me, they are fine. Every class is fine and nobody is really OP. Yes it gets irritating at times, but honestly everyone has a chance at everyone, even if you have to use the environmental rock/tree to "even" things up. Besides, if this RO is too much for you, you would have 0% chance 4 years ago where it was spell or die for mages with 1 resist = pretty much dead. But the whole evasion/resist thing wasn't so messed up either.

tsk tsk, eh eh. People need to be grateful this is a FtP and stop wanting changes. Changes isn't always good!! I miss realm chat in WZ, I miss good ole save wars, and I miss boss fighting as a whole for the fun. Also old spells like 50% ds, 1k dmg terrors (which use to be chained...back when locks ruled the game and conjs were gods), and 4k barb crits. So no, everything is just fine when you think about all the nerfing that has happened in the years.

Trust me mages are not fine. Their casts are slowest in game. SLOWEST! In time i cast one spell with devotion 5 a barb casts 2 or 3. Is this the master of spells....lol lol lol. Mages are choppy and unplesant right now. GCD, slow casts ruined the fun in this class. The only reason you see them played is because people love to play them. And even they are hard to do they still play them.

If you know what was mage pre 1.0. It was awesome and fun. Fast fluid capable of keeping 5-10 allies alive. Now you are out of mana even for 3.

The reason you say conjus are pretty survival is that you see alot old conjus. They help each other and survive better. New ones will die in like fleas.

Mages are not fine and not so fun. Trust me. They need alot more work to return to their old glory.

What is slowest barb cast - 2.5s(areas only). What is slower barb cast - 1s(useless spells). What is med barb cast 0.5s(self buffs). Others are INSTANT(horay attack spells).

What are slowest conju casts 6s(ressurect). What is slower 3-4s(areas). What are med 1-2.5s(horay self buffs). All others are 0.5s(horay 1-2 spells maybe). We have no instants but we need them to operate good.

Play targeted conju and than tell it is fine.

Examples of locks: Zodar, Nel, Repoor, Plunder, Fuerst, Hepha, La, rhanya, Hel, etc.

Examples of conjs: Syrtisa, Ieti, Icemon, AKM, Erica, Asdaf, etc.

If you're having problems, keep a close eye on these individuals and many more. (I see that some of them do not currently play, or have retired, changed name, etc., but the point is the same)

I have problems with canceling of spells, mana problems, slow casting spells causing ppl to die. I can not cast while i move. I have problems timing casts properly even with devotion 5 and 14% fast staff. I have problems with target deselects. I have problems casting defensive buffs heals on self and dispells in time.

Conju now is nothing compared to before.

[VandaMan]

I assure you I do know the game's mechanics

WM beacons don't work on caster
Cap.O.o you sure? i think i saw her use it >.>

I lol'd... and yes, Scias called me.

[Mehran]

Trust me mages are not fine. They casts are slowest in game. SLOWEST! In time i cast one spell with devotion 5 a barb casts 2 or 3. It this the master of spells....lol lol lol. Mages are choppy and unplesant right now. GCD, slow casts ruined the fun in this class. The only reason you see them played is because people love to play them. And even they are hard to do they still play them.

If you know what was mage pre 1.0. It was awesome and fun. Fast fluid capable of keeping 5-10 allies alive. Now you are out of mana even for 3.

The reason you say conjus are pretty survival is that you see alot old conjus. They help each other and survive better. New ones weill die in like fleas.

Mages are not fine and not so fun. Trust me. They need alot more work to return to their old glory.

What is slowest barb cast - 2.5s. What is slower barb cast - 1s. What is med barb cast 0.5s. Others are INSTANT.

What are slowest conju casts 6s. What is slower 2-4s. What are med 1s. All others are 0.5s. We have no instants but we need then to operate good.

Play targeted conju and than tell it is fine.

Well even a targeted knight dies, i mean if you have 10 on one, you cannot possibly emerge from that alive. And you are missing a crucial point, barb's "instant" spells are pretty much kick and spirtual blow (im assuming you're not talking about buffs but dmg?), and that's because they are melee and don't have the +20m range you mages have. And although i do agree mages' cs has gotten slower, and even mages overall have gotten deteriorated during the years, they are still very useful, why? - because they heal you. Healing is very "OP" in any game because you dont have to rest for 1 minute to get to full hp, so i'm sorry that your spells are toned down from past 900 heals, and etc. Furthermore, your cc's are still pretty fast casting, as in.. range to range comparison: ambush = 1sec cs (with like 19% cs from 5% cs pauds and 14% cs bow), it still fails terribly in comparison to will domain's 1sec cast time and a mage's still uber cast time boost. (casting time is casting time, 1% more is still better than nothing).

And i go off of old players because they are examples of what new players look up to, i cannot demonstrate from new players who have only played a single class.


I lol'd... and yes, Scias called me.

Knew it! and I don't know WM spells because my highest lvl character is lvl.49. I'm sorry I enjoy war and the people more than grinding on a familiar faced mob over and over? But I know now so I will implant that into my thinking next time when concerning WM's. :)

[ieti]

Do i have to get all barb instants from wikia. They are 10+. Lets see...

Disable Limb, South Cross, Forceful Blow, Ribs Breaker, Crushing, Mind Squasher, Balestra, Kick, Back Slam, Intimidate, Disabling, Spiritual Blow, Beast Attack...

Aaand maybe more....barb is damn fluid class. I have a level 60 barb and it is damn damn faster.

In time i cast picking ivy i'm dead. In time i cast will domain...lol useless spell and dead. Do i need to suffer to keep someone alive? Pump the heal button lol till it casts. Pump barrier button till it casts. Pump dispell till it casts. Pump every damn spell till it cast. Make half spells cancel because i need to move and switch targets. Loose mana because of cancels.

I can have good boundaries and they are called Cooldowns and mana consumption. Why i need to suffer this. Tell me one good excuse to need to cast 500 mana spell and my target to die before it is healed?

I want to be possible to heal self in time and dispell self in time. I want to be possible to defend self in time. This is pain now. Attackers are way faster attacking me than i can defend. Even my defense is way unnefective compared to their damage now.

Do i need to tell i get 500+ hits from barb in Steel Skin. Do i need to tell they can remove my buffs every 20 seconds. Do i need to tell that marks can dish terrible bursts of damage on me.

I just want conju to be fluid too, so i can do my work better. Again mages are not fine!

[VandaMan]

Do i have to get all barb instants from wikia. They are 10+.

No ieti, Mehran knows the game's mechanics. There are only 2 instant spells for barb, kick and spiritual blow.

[Mehran]

Do i have to get all barb instants from wikia. They are 10+. Lets see...

Disable Limb,South Cross,Forceful Blow,Ribs Breaker,Crushing,Mind Squasher,Balestra,Kick,Back Slam,Intimidate,Disabling,Spiritual Blow,Beast Attack

In time i cast picking ivy i'm dead. In time i cast will domain...lol useless spell and dead. Do i need to suffer to keep someone alive? Pump the heal button lol till it casts. Pump barrier button till it casts. Pump dispell till it casts. Pump every damn spell till it cast. Make half spells cancel because i need to move and switch targets. Loose mana because of cancels.

I can have good boundaries and they are called Cooldowns and mana consumption. Why i need to suffer this. Tell me one good excuse to need to cast 500 mana spell and my target to die before it is healed?

conjurors will be targeted, as well as they should. Their purpose is to heal, even with 1% cs. And when you have 3k mana and heals don't cost so much, it hurts. Besides conjs heal+synergy each other.. it's kind of hard to kill them, unless u manage to sync 5 ethreals on one target. And all of the spells you mentioned are all melee range, you are ranged, it would be hard for them to have to cast their spell since you would be able to step away? just take a single STEP. lol

And Van, i said the most commonly used, lol. If i dont want to read 5 pages of threads, why would i list 10 spells? :> I'm lazy, i admit it :P

[ieti]

3k mana what you smoke...level 60 conju have erm around 1.9k. To get it to 3k you need to have awesome mana gear and loose precious points in mana pool and dragon blood. I operate with 2.1k and i still miss points to get spells i want to. No pool, no blood. You want me to sacrifice 10 points...wrong! Yes i have good mana gear.

Eufy have maybe 3k but she uses awesome gear and pool.

I love to be targeted, but i want to fight back. Now i defend and fight way slower than my attackers.

Not alot conjus have Synergy, because we lack points. We use so so many spells. I have 2 bars full. And i use all this cr*p.

Do melee range is problem in fort wars? I do not think so. Do conjus have problems to defend in fort wars - OH YEA!

[Mehran]

well my lvl.36 conj has 1.3k mana and i hear many mages lvl.55+ have ~+2k so i just figured. And of course i'd use the mana pool or the blood at lvl.50+, why wouldn't you? You can't rely on amb sacrifice forever and I always get synergy bond lv.1 on conj, no matter how many pts i have.

And conjurer is supppppport. i dont care how much you want to attack, stand away! let your offensive classes attack, not a fully support class. I know you miss mindpush+ivy+domaining people, but supporting makes up for it, i promise ;)

And i also mentioned 3k mana because i remember when i played Syrtis Scias use to brag about how he had almost 3k mana with eve ammy and blood+pool, so i figured 10 lvls should be enough for 3k mana easy for people who use blood+pool

[Aries202]

Warlocks only purpose in war now is darkness, cremation. You seem to keep judging mages based on the pvp perspective. CC's became useless in wars due to beacons. DoTs only mean something if someone is under darkness. Dispell, Mass dispell just remove any DoT on a person, and that's warlocks primary damage - DoTs. The state of Regnum now is nuking people with mass damage spells or high hitting normals. Something difficult for a warlock to achieve.

[Slartibartfast]

3k mana what you smoke...level 60 conju have erm around 1.9k. To get it to 3k you need to have awesome mana gear and loose precious points in mana pool and dragon blood. I operate with 2.1k and i still miss points to get spells i want to. No pool, no blood. You want me to sacrifice 10 points...wrong! Yes i have good mana gear.

3k mana is not such a big deal.

As a lock at level 56, I have 2.5k mana. Staff with int +7, elite mage ring, mana pool and dragon blood. Mana is the fundamental for the mages and mage should take care of it. Without mana, mage is nothing. Not to mention energy borrow and sadistic servants with which I replenish my mana during combat. With this combination I never run out of mana, especially if I have some enemy around to steal from.

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Slartibartfast

[Slartibartfast]

Warlocks only purpose in war now is darkness, cremation. You seem to keep judging mages based on the pvp perspective. CC's became useless in wars due to beacons. DoTs only mean something if someone is under darkness. Dispell, Mass dispell just remove any DoT on a person, and that's warlocks primary damage - DoTs. The state of Regnum now is nuking people with mass damage spells or high hitting normals. Something difficult for a warlock to achieve.

Exactly. When I attack a beaconed barb with level easy for me (I'm level 56), I can unload the wholeshit of damage spells (all level 5) on him and his hp bar doesn't decrease even by a pixel. What are my odds if he rushes into me? And he does...

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Slartibartfast

[Mehran]

Warlocks only purpose in war now is darkness, cremation. You seem to keep judging mages based on the pvp perspective. CC's became useless in wars due to beacons. DoTs only mean something if someone is under darkness. Dispell, Mass dispell just remove any DoT on a person, and that's warlocks primary damage - DoTs. The state of Regnum now is nuking people with mass damage spells or high hitting normals. Something difficult for a warlock to achieve.

Well i never said mage was easy to play, but it's not the hardest class, and if it's your main you can come out on top even with almost the devastating of the nerfs. Even if NGD leaves a class in shambles, it's still shambles and has the ability to be played, and under the right circumstances can be very fun. I still see locks being powerful in fights, but too many are dumb just standing in a straight line being shot by a marks. use the fort wall, terror, then area. Simple if you have your own players guarding you.

[Mehran]

And don't blame too much on the mage class, the mage class is pretty good... It's the WM update that has called so many problems. Beacons cancelling cc's?? What?? that means a conj is no longer too needed for dispells except for the DoT spammers. And horn + spring = 50% speed... ridiculous for people to overcome, even with lightning arrow or slow on the barb. So stop blaming cs and blame a different thing that makes your class "lack power."

[Shwish]

...

I don't see a point in arguing with this person. In his mind he is right and there's nothing anyone can do or say to change that.

So lets please get back on topic about the suggestion of removing range cap on certain spells, if not all because i don't think its such a bad idea.

[ieti]

well my lvl.36 conj has 1.3k mana and i hear many mages lvl.55+ have ~+2k so i just figured. And of course i'd use the mana pool or the blood at lvl.50+, why wouldn't you? You can't rely on amb sacrifice forever and I always get synergy bond lv.1 on conj, no matter how many pts i have.

And conjurer is supppppport. i dont care how much you want to attack, stand away! let your offensive classes attack, not a fully support class. I know you miss mindpush+ivy+domaining people, but supporting makes up for it, i promise ;)

And i also mentioned 3k mana because i remember when i played Syrtis Scias use to brag about how he had almost 3k mana with eve ammy and blood+pool, so i figured 10 lvls should be enough for 3k mana easy for people who use blood+pool

First full support conju is dead conju. You are just helpless. You need at least little offense to stay alive. Hybrid setups own. They cost alot points and are nice.

Second offensive and support is my style and i love it - noyone tells me how to play it and where to stay.

Third mana pool and dragon blood are waste of points and if you stack on pool i will be glad to borrow you for 1k+ mana. Int is waste of points too. Get good HP, Mana gear. Get initial 5 points to const. This will make you live longer.

I have 3.9k HP, 2.1k Mana and feel fine. Main stopper for me are slow casts. I like to play busy conju which atm is hard to do. CS fix, GCD, no instants as we got before, extreme dependency from devotion.

Lastly someone needs to support front lines. Else they die. This puts you in danger and you need to show teeth.

I do not see why i need to answer more in this thread too.

[Mehran]

...........k

[NotScias]

I don't see a point in arguing with this person. In his mind he is right and there's nothing anyone can do or say to change that.

So lets please get back on topic about the suggestion of removing range cap on certain spells, if not all because i don't think its such a bad idea.

Yep, I shouldn't have bothered at all.
No point pointing him the moon he'll only look at the finger.

Anyways to get back on the topic it would be very welcome to see more 0 range spells for mages because currently there's only Sultar and SL. Staves range need a real purpose, especially for Conjus.

[71175]

And give us high lvl range 30 staffs too :3

[LittleHomer]

3k mana what you smoke...level 60 conju have erm around 1.9k. To get it to 3k you need to have awesome mana gear and loose precious points in mana pool and dragon blood. I operate with 2.1k and i still miss points to get spells i want to. No pool, no blood. You want me to sacrifice 10 points...wrong! Yes i have good mana gear.

3k Mana is realistic! I have a Warlock Level 60, Mana: 3400, HP: 3900, without Manapool!

... back to Top:
The mage is an outdated class (yes, there is a thread). 1 Hit from a barb or 2-3 from a marksman or 3-5 from a knight --> energy borrow is away. The 1k are not enough, just as example...
... Or the damage! A meteor --> 400-550 Dmg ca., that's ca. an autohit from a marksman!
... Or all the DoTs! Yeah, they are in many situations very good, but in a fort fight, they are useless.

[VandaMan]

I have a Warlock Level 60, Mana: 3400, HP: 3900, without Manapool!

No you don't.

[71175]

No you don't.

If we consider that all Germans have boss jewelry:
Here we go:
155 mana + 7 Int hat
2x175 mana ring
150 mana gloves
7 Int staff
Ehm
xD
So yea, Van is right xD

[Tenel_Ka]

3k Mana is realistic! I have a Warlock Level 60, Mana: 3400, HP: 3900, without Manapool!

Lol, ridiculous.

Even my marksman has more mana than that.

[LittleHomer]

sorry, just meant 2400 :clapclap:

[Phlue4]

sorry, just meant 2400 :clapclap:

your awesome equip and only 2400 mana? :-o

[Lekarz]

I agree with Ieti, conj work is now limited by these cooldowns and Devotion. Absolutely minimal of the offensive in conj skillbook is mind push.

Since marxmans hits easly 400+ normals with speed of medium bow and Ignis knights doesnt know what Aura is , Conjurers are easy targets to kill.

3900+ hp and 2900+ mana, yes with mana pool 5.

Mana regeneration is a joke with "dispell everything and save the whales " build. Most of time I wait for heal ally to cool down coz dont have any spells to cast.
At least our conjs found what DI share is :bounce:

[Zas_]

I agree with Ieti, conj work is now limited by these cooldowns and Devotion. Absolutely minimal of the offensive in conj skillbook is mind push.


I think whole spell system is too slow ATM.
A slight increase of gcd speed and casting time would make the gameplay more dynamic.
Mage shouldn't have to use a buff to have a decent casting speed.
Also archers and mages should be able to cast more spells while moving.

[Lekarz]

Making Arcane Devotion as passive skill would change gameplay?

If casting spells is a ability of mage and he knows what he do, his speed of casting would increase with lvl. Why marx have passive range spells when mage have to cast every minute this crappy skill?
Knight have stance, maybe do that with mage? Crazy ideas.

[LittleHomer]

Well ... there is a thread about Mage Balance & Mage Skills ;)

http://www.regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86725

[Phlue4]

and still, most important issue is decreasing the GCD and casting time, especially for mages.

[LittleHomer]

and still, most important issue is decreasing the GCD and casting time, especially for mages.

See the thread! I think, the author - Shining-Scias - explains very good the problem with mages this moment...

[Zemepanda]

hello, i didn't quite read the entire thread... but i'll just post my thoughts on what i read up to which was... mages cast too slow and the good old days and ngd sucks and stupid max ranging marksman and underpowered

first of all...

warlock

against marksman - hug tree, if marksman falls for it and goes closer to you, you win, if you don't win... you probably suck

against hunter - they prolly came out of camo, ambushed you and confused you... if you got confused, do frozen storm (hopefully hitting pet as well) or beatle swarm and hug nearest tree

against knight - slow

against barb - slow, maybe mind push

against conjurer - darkness

against another warlock - first to meteor wins


conjurer

against marksman - hug tree, if marksman falls for it and goes closer to you, you win, if you don't win... you probably suck

against hunter - probably came from camo, but you should have mind blank on 100% of the time and probably a golem with you... so... yea... if it goes through mind blank, use beatle on him and hug a tree (heal while hugging tree)

against barb - mind push and steel skin

against knight - mind push... prickling ivy... just let the mana burn soak in while you keep him busy

against warlock - you have mind blank, so you probably won even if he meteors you first, hug tree for extra guarantee of win

against another conjurer - mana burn and be smart with your energy borrow



ok now for the issues that scias has with mages

Useless primary attribute (Intelligence)
it gives you mana, the more mana you have... the faster you regenerate mana, the more spells you can cast

Irrelevant weapon stats
you need cast speed on your weapon, health helps... but damage on a weapon is useless for a mage

Irrelevant character level
you get more health, more mana (which means faster regen rate to cast more spells), and more skill points / discipline points, also you get stronger gear

Obsoleteness regarding new level cap
nobody else got new spells either... you get more health, more mana (which means faster regen rate to cast more spells), and more skill points / discipline points, also you get stronger gear

Big dependency on CCs
you use the word "overabuse"... i think the word you're looking for is "use". is it a bad thing to play the class the way you want to play it? there's no such thing as abusing a skill... so just "abuse" away until it gets nerfed because you're pr0 status of this game

Uneffective low levels
the word you're looking for is ineffective first of all, if you're gonna make a typo don't do it in bold, and you say the solution directly in your rant. use arcane devotion, why would you purposely gimp yourself? that's like a marksman running around with no recharged arrows and crying about the damage. you're a mage running around with no devotion and crying about the cast speed

Cast Speed gear domination
cast speed is the #1 thing a mage needs, but there is also increased health and mana, protection... evasion...

[71175]

Mage is fine and there is nothing underpowered about it

Well, u proven to be the dude who never got a lock and never went to war with it :D
Eat mah BoW 5 then.
The situation u described is PvP meanwhile i guess everyone in that thread is going on about war.
Next: Scias is right, cause
1. Mages are the only ones actually relieing on spells (heck even SM mages have to do it not to be ducked up)
2. Bonuses on weps!= weps usefulness itself
Look: Archers and warriors mostly need their wep to be near their own level to be effective at war, Mages however can do fine even with lvl3 stick as it is having CS on it.
3. CS is tooooooooooo sloooooooooooow for class which main weapon is spells
4. Right, noone got new spells but unlike the rest mages are the ones relieing on spells;
warriors and archers got their normal hits drastically improved however.
Also: Nobody has exact clue on how mana affects mana regen now.

[ieti]

...

Big big wall of text regarding PvP situation. Conju...you mean for me warju which have nothing to do with support conju in war. Warlock in war is completely different too.

-- i doubt zeme played or plays mage. i got warlock and hate it now. conju i play because it is my main class.

Useless primary attribute - other classes regenerate mana alot faster than mages...

Irrelevant weapon stats - after the cast speed fix even 14% fast staff is quite bad...

Obsoletenes regarding new level cap - stronger gear....you make me laugh...

Big dependency of CC's - right now mages depend on deadly chains and they highly depend of not to be CC'ed.

Unnefective low levels - mages grind alot slower compared to others.

Cast speed gear domination - well it got big time "fixed" so mages are screwed compared to pre 1.0

Again everyone who says that mages are fine never played it pre 1.0 when mages was actually fun.

If this class was fine why we do not see alot new conjus or locks... In Syrtis i saw 2 new conjus for last 3 months. They are not max level still so far. :(

[esp_tupac]

hello, i didn't quite read the entire thread... but i'll just post my thoughts on what i read up to which was... mages cast too slow and the good old days and ngd sucks and stupid max ranging marksman and underpowered

first of all...

warlock

against marksman - hug tree, if marksman falls for it and goes closer to you, you win, if you don't win... you probably suck

against hunter - they prolly came out of camo, ambushed you and confused you... if you got confused, do frozen storm (hopefully hitting pet as well) or beatle swarm and hug nearest tree

against knight - slow

against barb - slow, maybe mind push

against conjurer - darkness

against another warlock - first to meteor wins



1. even with warlock hugging trees, marks still have all the advantages.

-Winterstroke and Burst of Wind both faster than Willdomain.
-Silence slower than Stunning fist
-Beetle swarm being 2 sec and meteor can't do shit in treehug
-Small trees can't shield warlock from distract shot under sotw
-casting freeze without darkness (2 sec cast) is absolutely useless on marks

From both cooldown range and casting time point of view, there is no reason for marksman to lose even in a treehug against warlock.

marks approach in treehug : "WinterStroke + stunning fist + dmg buffs + ambush + shit load of high normals + Burst of Wind"

warlock goes into hiding with half hp left... and only willdomain in his hands while marks WinterStroke is ready again.

second approach: "sotw + distract shot + rest/ambush + shitload of normal hits + winter stroke + Burst of Wind"

warlock would either be dead or 10% hp left with only willdomain in hand.

the chain goes on leaving warlock with no chance to fight back as their cast speed is inferior in every fucking way.

2. warlock vs. hunter:

hunter's approach: " camo + confuse + distract shot + dmg buff + ambush (5) + ensnaring + normal spam + sotw + ensnaring. warlock is dead.

hunter's approach (2): "camo + confuse + sotw + dmg spam + distract shot + rest + stunning fist + sit/dmg buff + ambush (5) + normal spam + ensnaring. warlock is dead.

3. warlock vs. warjuror:

Absolutely no chance against warjuror with mindblank active. warlock doesn't know if his dizzy works til conjuror strikes back with silence (5) + mana burn + sultar dev + willdomain (5) + energy borrow + arcane + timemaster + new ranged pet up etc etc.

There is no way to get close enough to cast a range 20 darkness with 2 sec casting time. Warju will suck ur mana dry and cc u to death at range 25. If even warju's chain broke. They have protection from mindblank against warlock's willdomain, silence, freeze, frozen storm, timemaster and every possible cc that warlock has. not to mention steel skin. they also have longer arcane dev duration than warlock and 2 ranged summon that can be casted before first one ends/dies.

Again, warlock has no starting advantage even in treehug because willdomain can be cancelled by mindblank and u never know til ur on the ground with a lvl 5 willdomain.

4. Knight vs. warlock
Knight just treehug and with him tanking nobody wins

5. warlock vs. barb
There is no pvp scenario because barbs all rush with ons and horn now in packs. No barb would go after a warlock alone unless he is stupid or he knows the warlock only has lvl 1 slow (me).

Roar has longer reach than mindpush. Barb can catch a warlock within 25 range using UM if warlock only skill lvl 1 slow. If warlock got roared, it's game over. kick lvl 3/4 + 2 or 3 normals + beast attack or any dizzy ur dead while warlock is trying to cast a 2 sec long timemaster when he stands up lol how pathetic....


Overall, WARLOCK is meatbag. no mindblank, low profile, sotw, santuary. vulnarable to dizzy of any kind and don't have enough cast speed to defend themselves.

[LittleHomer]

Mage is fine and there is nothing underpowered about it
Sorry, but if you say things like that, you're kind of crazy!

Warlock:

against marksman - hug tree, if marksman falls for it and goes closer to you, you win, if you don't win... you probably suck
The Marksman has always a vantage because of his Low Profile and SotW! Warlocks have to cast will domain really quick otherwise they will get Burst of Wind.
The Warlock has only a chance with tree hugging, and even then the chance isn't a 50% 50%! Is this balanced?! I don't think so!

against hunter - they prolly came out of camo, ambushed you and confused you... if you got confused, do frozen storm (hopefully hitting pet as well) or beatle swarm and hug nearest tree
Well,when Hunters come out of camo, they always use confuse AND SotW ... Well, you can't buff yourself and it's luck to hit the hunter because of SotW. After SotW he casts Ambush, this will be your dead as warlock... Without tree hugging, you also haven't got a chance here.

And well, for all the other points ... read this: http://www.regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86725

[Shwish]

... and only willdomain in his hands

And there's a very high chance that will domain will be always resisted with or without sotw up. I think all mages can agree with me on that.

Roar has longer reach than. mindpush. Barb can catch a warlock within 25 range using UM if warlock only skill lvl 1 slow. If warlock got roared, it's game over. kick lvl 3/4 + 2 or 3 normals + beast attack or any dizzy ur dead while warlock is trying to cast a 2 sec long timemaster when he stands up lol how pathetic....
.

I'm not sure if its just me, but I've noticed that when I cast mind push on a warrior there's a slight delay before the slow effect works. This makes it fairy easy to roar or even get into range to knock the warlock before he actually gets effected by the mind push. Correct if I'm wrong about this observation.

[ieti]

There is always a delay. For spells it is sometimes a second. For auras and areas it is even more.

That's why Static Field and Mind Push are risky to use. You are in a so called "spear range" with them.

Depends on your connection, server and other player's connection...

[Zemepanda]

@numbers
Eat mah BoW 5 then.
eat my tree hugging

teh spell dependency!@#!@#
ok, go to a warrior or archer and never use a spell, just type /reset_powers, don't go to a trainer, and see how much you "don't rely on spells"

weapons, stick
if bonuses aren't useful on weapons then why do people buy so many plat boxes? if the stick has amazing bonuses, then sure, use it! that's not a bad thing, infact that makes them overpowered because level of the weapon they use doesn't matter

still complaining about cast speed
everybody got slower cast speed, you derp -.-l

mana regen
there's a lot of things unexplained in this game and that makes me mad as much as the next derp, but a few players have found 0.008 mana/sec/mana is the case
http://regnum.wikia.com/wiki/Research:Mana_Regeneration


@zeme is dumb haven't played teh mage, oh wait that's not specific enough... @ieti
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5J7xbXLDoc
i've also played my friend's level 60 warlocks... successfully

i have warlock and hate it now
well you have to make your own fun, don't do things you don't enjoy *cough* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FVH0SmDmak *cough*

mana regen complaining still
other classes don't have ambitious sacrifice, sadistic servents, energy borrow. oh? they're still regening mana faster than you? then why are you just standing there and not energy borrowing, mana burning, sadistic servanting...

stronger gear lulz
lulz are good

cc chain dependency
that's not a good or a bad thing, that's how they're played, if you can't adapt to new playstyles that's not my problem

still typoing uneffective
i've heard this multiple times, and it's stupid every time i hear it... have you ever ice blasted or lightninged a mob in 1 hit? i've grinded mages and it's simple

cast speed domination
why is "fixed" in quotes? it got fixed. yay ngd!

mage used to be fun teh good old days
you're right, it also used to be overpowered



@heph
winter stroke and burst of wind both faster than will domain
first of all, if you get burst of wind... continue hugging the tree. Winter stroke casting faster... hmm... well i'd say it depends on the gear of both players, arcane devotion makes will domain a 0.5 cast time as well, so... if you have 14% on your staff, 6% on your gloves... and the marksman has 5% on his paulds... 12% on his bow... (most marksman don't go out of their way to put cast speed on their bows) then... maybe you just suck?

silence slower than stunning fist
thank you for the useless piece of knowledge to fluff up your rant, silence has range, stunning fist doesn't, they both have their trade-offs

beatle swarm being 2 sec and meteor can't do shit in treehug
you're right, so use will domain, thank you for the fluff

small trees dist shot
this is definitely you sucking, go play a marksman and find someone who knows how to properly hug a tree... i've seen your videos, hey i even had a tree hugging fight with you that one day, and i can tell you that using Q and E and clicking spells will not give you the upper hand, what actually will happen if you didn't suck would be you go back behind the tree and the marksman wastes his mana

look at 3:04 here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-IdRm-7RCQ
I got lucky because he kept running past the tree, otherwise it would have been a waste of mana

freeze without darkness is useless
fluff

there is no reason for marks to lose a treehug vs warlock
actually there is, the reason warlocks can't kill a marksman is that they out range them, so if the marksman is stupid enough to get in range, you have the advantage to win the fight (unless you suck)

a hypothetical situation that makes you rage
well, don't let those things happen, especially when you're smart enough to know it's coming

second approach - sotw dist shot
lol. 3:04 here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-IdRm-7RCQ

warlock vs hunter
if the hunter gets you in the middle of an open field, you're screwed, i can't give you the magical solution to this

warlock vs warju
yea, the warju wins

knight vs warlock
you use mana burn and soulkeeper and vampirism... and slow... oh wait you use slow 1, well it's not my fault you gimp yourself

warlock vs barb DEY GOT DOZ ZERGS AND ALWAYS HORN OF WIND
usomad, in your hypothetical rage situation, lets make it fair AND GIVE YOU DOZ ZERG AND ALWAYS HORN OF WIND then come back to me

roar longer reach than mind push
then stop using slow 1 and gimping yourself

warlock is meat bag
correct, don't let yourself get hit


@littlehomer
advantage because of low profile
you're kidding me right? stripping all your buffs away gives you an advantage?

advantage because of sotw
hug the tree better

warlocks cast will domain quick or else they get burst of wind
o noes teh burst of wind, continue hugging the tree, the thing you should be worried about is freeze, and yes, you should be able to cast will domain quicker

hunter open field
you're right, no chance, that's just the part of the game that rewards hunters for being patient and finding you in an open field

for all other points see the thing you already replied to
saw it


@shwish
resist will domain
it happens

slight delays
use a higher level slow, don't gimp yourself

[LittleHomer]

advantage because of low profile
you're kidding me right? stripping all your buffs away gives you an advantage?

advantage because of sotw
hug the tree better

warlocks cast will domain quick or else they get burst of wind
o noes teh burst of wind, continue hugging the tree, the thing you should be worried about is freeze, and yes, you should be able to cast will domain quicker

hunter open field
you're right, no chance, that's just the part of the game that rewards hunters for being patient and finding you in an open field

for all other points see the thing you already replied to
saw it

Tree hugging ISN'T a balance ! -.-

[Zemepanda]

tree hugging is part of the game, use a higher level tree hug, don't gimp yourself xD

[ieti]

@Zeme stop looking on PvP or hunt perspective. Look on the RvR perspective where mages used to shine. Where mages are important.

I play conju NOT warju. Video you post is damn warju and there it is still damn slow. It takes ages to cast something.

In PvP you are in less stressed situation at least on conju. You can time your casts better.

In RvR you need to multitask and there you need more speed and more fluid gameplay. What can be OP in PvP is perfectly good in RvR because you need to cover larger group of allies and enemies.

I stopped warlock, because now it is too choppy with this "fixed" cast speed and global cooldown.

I still play conju, because i love to support and i love this class. This so called "cast speed fix" made alot old conjus to stop playing this nice class. It made conju life alot harder.

I made a barb to 60 and i can clearly say it's gameplay is ALOT MORE FLUID and fast than a gameplay of a conju with devotion(5) and a 14% fast staff. Ye mages are masters of spells...my a**.

Have you played a mage pre 1.0? I need answer YES/NO. Before this conjus was good with fast staff only - no devotion. Locks used devotion for areas and some slower spells. CS dependency hits hard mage class. Badly put GCD delays on some spells break fluidity too.

Warju is not a conju. Get this mage again and play SUPPORT in RvR scenario. Play it for at least 1 week, so enemies know you better and you start to get really targeted. Then we will talk.

[standistortion]

I'm right and know everything.
Hint: Don't feed the troll.

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

Could we, please, get back to initial proposal instead of feeding suckers.
Yes, I agree with Swish that long time casting stoppers, should have range dependant on staff range+arcane projection. Sultar is a good example of how should it look like.

[VandaMan]

@numbers
Eat mah BoW 5 then.
eat my tree hugging
Any class can tree hug against any other ranged class. You tree hug their BoW, they treehug your meteor/silence/beetles etc. Argument invalid.

teh spell dependency!@#!@#
ok, go to a warrior or archer and never use a spell, just type /reset_powers, don't go to a trainer, and see how much you "don't rely on spells"
Completely missed the point. Most of the important spells for other classes are buffs, that you can use before combat if you like. A dizzy does not completely cripple you. A dizzied warrior or archer can still deal and reduce significant damage, even if he didn't get all his buffs cast. Anyway, I guarantee you that you'd do better on a warrior or archer without ever using a spell, so you've only damaged your own position here.

weapons, stick
if bonuses aren't useful on weapons then why do people buy so many plat boxes? if the stick has amazing bonuses, then sure, use it! that's not a bad thing, infact that makes them overpowered because level of the weapon they use doesn't matter
I think you misunderstand the problem here. The problem being that the damage mages deal was balanced to the damage other classes deal a very long time ago (before you played), and the damage other classes do has greatly increased due to level cap increase and new gear. The damage mages do has remained the same.

still complaining about cast speed
everybody got slower cast speed, you derp -.-l
Instant spells did not get slower cast speed. Relatively speaking, since mages have none, their cast speed was nerfed in comparison to warrior classes. Beyond that, cast speed has been nerfed in comparison to movement speed, as movement speed has been repeatedly increased while casting speed changes and global cooldown have made casting much slower overall.

@zeme is dumb haven't played teh mage, oh wait that's not specific enough... @ieti
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5J7xbXLDoc
i've also played my friend's level 60 warlocks... successfully
Last I saw, you were terrible at warju (how is that even possible?), and I rather doubt you're any better at warlock. The only thing I've seen you do well is gank lowbies, grinders, and groups half your number. Oh, and drowning people retarded enough to try and jump out on the ledge at pb =D

mana regen complaining still
other classes don't have ambitious sacrifice, sadistic servents, energy borrow. oh? they're still regening mana faster than you? then why are you just standing there and not energy borrowing, mana burning, sadistic servanting...
The complaint wasn't so much that mana regens too slowly, it was that the primary attribute (intelligence) is nearly useless. Other classes benefit more from it than mages, because their base regen rate is higher, and mages have better ways of recovering mana than regen.


still typoing uneffective
i've heard this multiple times, and it's stupid every time i hear it... have you ever ice blasted or lightninged a mob in 1 hit? i've grinded mages and it's simple
You don't ice blast or lightning mobs in 1 hit after like level 20. Grinding after 50 always takes two spells and some normals (or more). Not to mention in the time it takes to kill something with ice blast or other non-lightning DoTs you'd already be into the next mob on most other classes.

mage used to be fun teh good old days
you're right, it also used to be overpowered
You weren't even playing this game back then. You have no idea what you're talking about.

@heph
winter stroke and burst of wind both faster than will domain
first of all, if you get burst of wind... continue hugging the tree. Winter stroke casting faster... hmm... well i'd say it depends on the gear of both players, arcane devotion makes will domain a 0.5 cast time as well, so... if you have 14% on your staff, 6% on your gloves... and the marksman has 5% on his paulds... 12% on his bow... (most marksman don't go out of their way to put cast speed on their bows) then... maybe you just suck?
Hugging a tree is no argument at all, as I said before.

On spells that cast in .5 seconds or less, the differences in cast speed gear and buffs have to be quite large to make any consistent and noticeable difference. Lag and server positioning issues are far more important in determining who casts first. Due to rounding and such, the gear may quite literally be meaningless in some cases.

Even if it did, due to the way casting times are calculated a 1 second cast time spell with lvl 5 devotion and a .5 cast time spell without devotion are only the same with no cast speed gear. Cast speeds are on a curve now, and will domain with cast speed gear and devotion 5 is supposed to cast slower than a .5 second spell with the same cast speed gear. To make it simple, without getting all math-ish on you, each incremental increase in higher cast speed buffs and gear is worth less than the incremental increase before it. Double casting times with +100% cast speed buff may seem to cancel out, but it reduces the effectiveness of the additional CS gear.

^tl;dr - you have no idea what you're talking about, lrn2maths

beatle swarm being 2 sec and meteor can't do shit in treehug
you're right, so use will domain, thank you for the fluff
Too bad will domain is slower than virtually every single target warrior spell, the 2 favorites of every marks (BoW/WS), and stunning fist.

small trees dist shot
this is definitely you sucking, go play a marksman and find someone who knows how to properly hug a tree... i've seen your videos, hey i even had a tree hugging fight with you that one day, and i can tell you that using Q and E and clicking spells will not give you the upper hand, what actually will happen if you didn't suck would be you go back behind the tree and the marksman wastes his mana
You do realize a marksman hugging a tree against a warlock is just as effective, right? Marksmen have CCs that are just as fast and faster than warlock CCs, along with a couple "get out of jail free" cards that can help them get back behind the tree and try again if they do mess up.

look at 3:04 here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-IdRm-7RCQ
I got lucky because he kept running past the tree, otherwise it would have been a waste of mana
Failed treehugging is just as often a result of position lag as slow reflexes. You rarely see your enemy and yourself in the same position as he does.

there is no reason for marks to lose a treehug vs warlock
actually there is, the reason warlocks can't kill a marksman is that they out range them, so if the marksman is stupid enough to get in range, you have the advantage to win the fight (unless you suck)
Relative advantage perhaps, meaning you are in a better position than you were before he came into range. Relative advantage however is not the same as advantage. You're on more or less equal footing at this point, and if you get to that point it's only because the marks chose to let you have an even chance at fighting. It's not an advantage at all, it only seems like it because you're normally at a disadvantage.

warlock vs hunter
if the hunter gets you in the middle of an open field, you're screwed, i can't give you the magical solution to this

PvPs are useless. That said, on my hunter with a pet from camo and cold blooded, I can easily kill a warlock before he has a chance to do anything. It doesn't have to be an open field, just so long as he's not right next to a tree or rock. You can get off a couple shots from camo before he can click on you, and 3 from cold blood in ambush. With decent gear, not even boss stuff, that could come close to 2400 if you never crit, and that's not even counting the pet. You've still got SotW up your sleeve and the guy hasn't even cast a spell yet.

warlock vs warju
yea, the warju wins
Nah, this almost entirely depends on the setups, and the luck of mind blank.

knight vs warlock
you use mana burn and soulkeeper and vampirism... and slow... oh wait you use slow 1, well it's not my fault you gimp yourself
Unless you want to let the knight catch you, soulkeeper and vampirism aren't going to do much, and if you let the knight catch you there's a good chance you're screwed. Personal MoD! >.>

warlock vs barb DEY GOT DOZ ZERGS AND ALWAYS HORN OF WIND
usomad, in your hypothetical rage situation, lets make it fair AND GIVE YOU DOZ ZERG AND ALWAYS HORN OF WIND then come back to me

Excellent point, just run away! In fact balance is perfect, everyone should just stay in the initiation zone, and there would be no problems!

roar longer reach than mind push
then stop using slow 1 and gimping yourself
Yeah, you're right, 15 second area stun with .5 second casting time from a class that can kill nearly anyone in under 5 seconds is completely justified, because this one warlock I know uses level 1 slow.

@littlehomer
advantage because of low profile
you're kidding me right? stripping all your buffs away gives you an advantage?
Yes... if you use it correctly, it's a huge advantage. If you and a warlock are having a treehug fight, and the warlock gets the upper hand, low profile is like the "oops, do-over" button. Just hit it and run back to the tree if you get immobilized or frozen. The warlock has to land 2-3 spells to both catch you and prevent this.

advantage because of sotw
hug the tree better
It's still an advantage, whether you are hugging the tree or not... just because you can always go back to hiding, it still has the ability to break the CC chain you started, or any upper hand you just gained.

warlocks cast will domain quick or else they get burst of wind
o noes teh burst of wind, continue hugging the tree, the thing you should be worried about is freeze, and yes, you should be able to cast will domain quicker
Wrong. You should not be able to cast will domain quicker. Already explained, you fail at math.

slight delays
use a higher level slow, don't gimp yourself
This whole thing about the level of his slow spell is strictly 1v1, and completely unrelated to overall balance.

I realize that even if you bother reading this, which I doubt you will, you'll still disagree simply because you want to, but the fact is you have no idea what you're talking about. I think you just like the sound of your own keyboard. Feel free to respond with a bunch more herp-a-derp, because I'm not going to bother correcting it again. Maybe if you try some colorful text and caps lock next time people will overlook the fact that you're talking out your ass, and you can walk away ego-intact, still convinced you know everything.

On-topic, just for Dupa: I'm not sure about weapon ranged spells, I can see where it could help, but it would only be a duct-tape fix for a flawed class design.

[pieceofmeat]

I like to wait and see the new WM powers and the next batch of nerfs, because what ruin the Warlock for me is mainly Hotw, Beacons and DI in combination with them.

[NotScias]

I can't even believe you took so much time to answer such obviouly ignorant and closed-minded player.

I bet If his own class had fixed damage output regardless of the lvl/weapon/attributes, constantly depending on a spell and single stat to work decently yet still being slow and useless rvr-wise, plus all the other issues I'm tired to repeat to every retard having no knowledge nor experience about what they are talking about, he'd be the first one to complain... well no, since he'd probably play another class in this case.

[VandaMan]

I can't even believe you took so much time to answer such obviouly ignorant and closed-minded player.

It's not so much a desire to answer him as it is a desire to make sure others recognize how much bullshit he's spewing, even if they don't understand or have an opinion on the subject. Sadly public opinion often follows those who shout the loudest, for the longest, and the most often... and I'd rather not have NGD developing a game thinking Zeme's opinion is common.

[Archonaut]

Hahahaha you gotta love Zeme xD

[lopi12]

hey what about for liek hunters:pumpkin:

[Awrath]

I'm so glad to see some sane responses to the insane idea that tree hugging and running away is balance. Playing a mage once or twice while you predominantly stand and pew pew from 55m away does not really give you a good perspective on mage game play, and as such your points and arguments become biased and effectively, pointless.

If you have actually played a warlock in RvR you will see how much they are targeted with little opportunity to respond since your opponents are targeting you from almost double your range. Your only option is to run and take cover and if you're lucky you may just survive as you escape that insane range. So yes, you need to hide to survive, but as stated by many rational posters earlier, tree hugging and running away is not balance.

So please, if you have a balance suggestion, try to think of the wider picture and actual game play for all involved rather than yourself and the class you predominantly play. If you think tree hugging and running away is fun, then you have experienced very little in the fun that this game has potential to offer.

As to the OP, I agree that some change is needed to make mages more competitive and plausible in RvR. As it stands the cast speed "fix" has hindered mages more than warriors or archers, thanks to the fact that (again as stated by those with rational thoughts) the mage is a class that relies entirely on spells.

[Zemepanda]

@vandaman

sO i rEcEiveD soMe WondERfuL aDviCe FrOM A FriEnD On hOw To nOT sPEAk OuT oF My AsS. TaLkInG In ColOrS aNd UsInG CaPITalS wIlL hElP tHE LoVeLys To UnDeRSTaNd Me BeTtEr.

AlSo I SaW tHiS QuOTE FroM VaN

which I doubt you will, you'll still disagree simply because you want to

http://t.qkme.me/3perzy.jpg

Originally Posted by Zemepanda
warlock vs warju
yea, the warju wins

posted by teh van
Nah, this almost entirely depends on the setups, and the luck of mind blank.


i'm the one who disagrees because i want to? ok, well you simply disagree to be teh troll killar of regnum forums, protecting all from massive spewed bullshit from evilz zeme!@# but then if you take a look, you're a blatant hypocrite

and then the rest of your text goes on about math and will domain and winter stroke and maybe i'm wrong but don't worry bases covered with position lag and the system and stupid ngd and you don't play lock when you noob noob noobtroll noob noob

oh and don't forget the "you don't know what you're talking about you don't play". hypocrite >.> when's the last time you've played this game?


lrn2forumhero


@shining-scias
i take the time to answer every single one of your "rage suggestions" and you give me "obviously ignorant and closed-minded cuz i hate you and i'm gonna go agree with van now"? alright, would you care to enlighten my closed mind? oh i take that back, that would involve kissing your obviously ignorant and closed-minded ass some more.

then you go on with "i bet if his..." as if you're talking to everybody but me, i'm right here

@awrath
if you actually played, you noob noob
i have actually played

look at the broader picture and not 1v1s
i don't know how to go about that... every RvR fight has so many factors... 1v1s are a bit easier to narrow in on, basicly you'd need to take what i say about the 1v1s and think of RvR as a bunch of 1v1s happening at the same time, that's not actually what it is but... i hope you realise you're asking for such a broad statement that has way too many variables

[Phlue4]

I´d like to know whether CS-gear will ever be useful again...

[Awrath]

@awrath
if you actually played, you noob noob
i have actually played

Yes, we get it. You played and hugged a tree. Fortunately for us, even NGD wont take tree hugging as a solution to balance.


look at the broader picture and not 1v1s
i don't know how to go about that...

If you don't, then you shouldn't be taking part in a balance discussion.


every RvR fight has so many factors... 1v1s are a bit easier to narrow in on, basicly you'd need to take what i say about the 1v1s and think of RvR as a bunch of 1v1s happening at the same time, that's not actually what it is but... i hope you realise you're asking for such a broad statement that has way too many variables
So you say think of RvR as a bunch of 1v1s then you say it isn't actually what it is? Do you read what you write?

And how is RvR even remotely a bunch of 1v1s happening at the same time? Yes, because a support conjurer would heal er.. who exactly in a 1v1? A support knight would use auras on who in a 1v1? And where do you expect to find your precious tree at Samal, Aggersborg or Herbred? You propose that the solution for warlock vs marx is to hug a tree, what is the solution at a fort? If you're a warlock just don't step outside?

Yes, RvR has many factors, but these factors need to be taken into account in order to achieve balance. You seem to forget this is a game that predominantly involves 3 realms in large scale battles, not 1v1 tree hugging.

Anyway, it's obvious you are incapable of reasoning, and I do not wish to derail this thread any further, the OP raises genuine concerns regarding mages that even a half witted idiot that plays a mage realises the existence of.

[VandaMan]

@vandaman
Originally Posted by Zemepanda
warlock vs warju
yea, the warju wins

posted by teh van
Nah, this almost entirely depends on the setups, and the luck of mind blank.

i'm the one who disagrees because i want to?
I'm not sure what's wrong with that statement... if mindblank fails a couple times, and the warlock manages to get off darkness it's anybody's game, especially if the lock has a mana killing setup, is able to steal a summons, or doesn't mind giving a personal MoD. Not "disagreeing because I want to," I'm disagreeing because you're wrong.

and then the rest of your text goes on about math and will domain and winter stroke and maybe i'm wrong but don't worry bases covered with position lag and the system and stupid ngd and you don't play lock when you noob noob noobtroll noob noob

I'm pretty sure I left all the actual math out, and just explained that the cast speed system has diminishing returns. I never said "maybe I'm wrong." I'm most certainly right. What I did say is that position lag and rounding don't allow enough precision for a mage having extra cast speed gear to get any real advantage on will domain vs BoW or WS, since that seemed to be the crux of your treehugging argument, and that even without those factors, the extra cast speed is worth less than the extra cast speed a marksman has. I'm sorry if that's too complicated for you.

oh and don't forget the "you don't know what you're talking about you don't play".
That's not even what I said. You commented on mages being overpowered "back in the day" or some such, and I said you didn't even play at that time... because you didn't...

hypocrite >.> when's the last time you've played this game?
Yesterday.

lrn2forumhero
I can honestly say, I think this is the first time I've ever been accused of forum-heroing (if that's a word). Notsureifgladorsad D:

----

Anyway, what I think mages really need is for fixed damage to be removed. Their spell damage (and perhaps heals) should be calculated on the fly with their intelligence and damage gear factoring in. Even more than that though, the extra power points from the last 10 levels really need to go. Forcing people to make hard decisions in their setups would go a long way, there's no reason we should all have nearly maxed out CCs, defense and damage at the same time.

[ieti]

<TROLL>

Put a tree s around every fort and inside! Turn forts and castles into a giant tree!

Balance solved. :lighten:

</TROLL>

You really can not justify RvR as a bunch of PvP's. Mechanics are different and when people are more than 3 they start to act pretty different. In a good or bad way. Call it mindless zerg or teamplay. People are predators and they just act like a pack when more than 3.

As awrath says support classes do not obey to PvP mechanics, because they can not play in PvP. Their role is to support multiple targets and to be attacked from multiple targets. From this we get that they must be more tanky to survive and to be possible to multitask at targets better - so speed and fluidity are really really vital here.

Warlocks are even more hybrid they are meant to be mass crowd control class. Well their role is lost lately.

[Shwish]

<TROLL>

Put a tree s around every fort and inside! Turn forts and castles into a giant tree!

Balance solved. :lighten:

</TROLL>


I must say, you are terrible at trolling.

[71175]

<TROLL>

Put a tree s around every fort and inside! Turn forts and castles into a giant tree!

Balance solved. :lighten:

</TROLL>


Good idea actually!

[pieceofmeat]

Good idea actually!

I guess you played pre 0.0001?
This is important because thats when the first tree was implemented.

Anyone who didnt play pre 0.0001, dont know how fun it actually was.

[Lekarz]

Don't be stupid...

Ieti and me talks about SUPPORT CONJURER and this is what everyone call CONJURER. Warjurer is like kbarb , offensive conjurer / knight and it's not typical class we play.

People who think that conjurer can easly beat someone, never played it. You're Dead Meat for every class, few skills can help you survive but won't kill opponent.

We Heal/dispell/give mana, others protect us. Supp conjurer vs any other class? Run away or dead.

I also miss good old times when locks rock in wars by their CCs.

[SirHiss]

I'm so happy I came to this thread! You have to pay a lot for entertainment of Zeme's class
Maybe get some pride and stop building your fights around a tree.

[NotScias]

@shining-scias
i take the time to answer every single one of your "rage suggestions"

Nope at all.
Most of your answers are either "derp learn to play nub" or invalid because occuring in particular cases only and mostly PvP. My "rage" suggestions/topic is a totally abstract view of the game, without situational things, nor skill, trees or pings involved, just class-design, where we can clearly see something is very wrong with how Mages have been designed, and especially in this derailed topic where the first poster legitimally wonders why staves ranges aren't affecting that spell (or any besides a couple Warlock ones).
And not even talking about the "typo" ones. I do my best althought I'm not native english and I don't think my spelling is that bad besides for argumentless people.