War Master Powers

[Ulti19]

I already wrote this but I think it should have it's own thread so hopefully it will get more attention.

Ok it's great new warmaster powers are coming into play, it really is. However I hope that the powers on amun are just something completely in the works and not set into stone. I mean, just look at the knight wm powers for example. Battle mend, the easier one to unlock that takes less points, heals 250/450 witha cd of 40 seconds and costs 200 mana with 0.5 casting seconds.

Mend, a harder to gain spell farther down the tree, takes 250 mana, costs 1 second to cast, and heals one ally for 200 hp witha cd of 90 seconds. Why would I want to heal someone for 200 hp??? That won't help at all in any scenario almost. There's clearly some mistakes, how can the first spells available be so much better than the second. And those heals, of 200 is really low for a spell that takes 250 mana and 90 sec cd. There are already so many useless spells in this game, let's not add to them, try to make your spells appealing. Why use mend a high ranking knight wm spell for 250 mana, with 1 second cast time and 90 sec cd, when i can use protect ally lv 5? It would be nice if mend had a secondary effect like 50% armor bonus on the ally cast or something. Be creative! Let wm skills be something everyone would want, not something that is meh. It's a wm power, make it heal by more than a lv 10 conju can. Make mend heal at least 600, imagine how fun support knights would be to the team then. No one will skill a 200 hp heal and think it is useful, for god's sake it isn't even insta cast, it's one second, the allies always run around and never stand in one spot how will a knight heal them, make it range 10 or something make it fun! We all know how fights are and it would be a waste to heal by 200 only for your opponent to hit you by 700 or 2000 in the case of some barbs.

Seriously, RO is my favorite game and I think you guys did an awesome job with it, it pwns the competition imo. But look at the skills you make more carefully because if you release this kind of stuff you will only add to Kharbon's list of useless spells in RO. And it would be a shame if WM ones are the useless ones. Make them fun and attractive, like 'HOLY Sh**!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wish I had that spell kinda thing.' You guys can get alot of fans with your new update or you can get a meh response, make the wm powers super fun, it will be worth it. When I first got army of one when i hit 37 for the first time I was like FK YEAAAAAAAA, when I get mend as a warmaster I'll just remember how cool Ao1 is..

[Rising_Cold]

Its a WM power of a KNIGHT
I dont want to see knights taking over as conjus >.< not even as noob conjus rlly

I can just see what will happen at boss fights, another reason to take WM knight there..

[Ulti19]

That's right, a WM power of a knight, which currently has almost no potential to bother putting any points in these skills. PA has a cd of 20 seconds and dispells all negative powers and gives 100 hp, why would any knight skill mend?

[mongos]

Knight is supposed to be the hardest class to kill, class with higher hp...So why, just +200hp...when a barb will have +300, when a lock will have +550....

About spells, I'm really disapointed, they are just useless. It's just impossible to heal someone with range 2, cast time of 0.5 or 1 secs, and 40-90 secs cd. So why theses spells ?

[_Kharbon_]

...
I agree with you. 200 hp is nothing. In situations where someone needs health, this would be useless. I also like your suggestion of increasing allies protection.
What about a spell that would temporarly give the ally a blocking chance (about same as the one of the knight)? I know this is a luck-based thing, but under heavy attack this could help.

Anyway, I went on amun and here are the war-master spells for warlock:

War council - passive, supposed to give another warmaster chat-tab. I couldn't test it as my spell book seems to be bugged.

Offensive portal - teleports allies to choice of destinations - I belive it's the same as before, maybe including the "defensive" locations?

Warmasters might - passive, giving 15% cs. This is extremely useful for warlock. I like it. Only thing I fear is, that it will become a must-have in PvP. Non-wm warlocks will have more difficulties to defeat wm locks, but I suppose that's on purpose.

Mass pricking ivy - "A pricking ivy grows below the opponent's feet and her near allies, surrounding and catching her.".
Duration 4 seconds, Area 6, cost 500 mana, CD 40sec, GCD short, Casting time 0.5.
If we compare this with twister on lvl 1:
Duration 5 seconds, Area 6, cost 290 mana, CD 60sec, GCD normal, Casting time 3 seconds.

Twister is found in the "element tree" along with other useful spells. Many locks skill it on lvl 1. If we compare its mana cost and duration, investing in twister few more points makes it better than "mass pricking ivy". The only advantage of the wm spell would be very short casting. Even then, This spell does not have the "wow, awesome" effect, but it's an extremely expensive spell with a easy substitute.

Warmaster blood - Passive, giving 550 hp to the warlock. This is also a great spell - 550 hp for a lock is useful.


To conclude: apart from the "mass pricking ivy", they are very nice spells. It seems beacons were removed, or given class-specific? The only problem I have with the wm tree is it's order. I would suggest the following order:


Mass pricking ivy - being the "worst" spell in here imho
War concil - useful for coordination, but not having a great impact in pure war
Offensive portal - again, strategic spell, not giving advantage in combat
Warmasters blood - gives a direct combat advantage, very useful
Warmasters might - the "best" spell of the tree imho, should therefore have a position where more points have to be invested, and perhaps some other spells lowered (as will be the case in my setup ;P)

[ieti]

What are WM powers for conju?

[Shwish]

I agree with you. 200 hp is nothing. In situations where someone needs health, this would be useless. I also like your suggestion of increasing allies protection.
What about a spell that would temporarly give the ally a blocking chance (about same as the one of the knight)? I know this is a luck-based thing, but under heavy attack this could help.

Anyway, I went on amun and here are the war-master spells for warlock:

War council - passive, supposed to give another warmaster chat-tab. I couldn't test it as my spell book seems to be bugged.

Offensive portal - teleports allies to choice of destinations - I belive it's the same as before, maybe including the "defensive" locations?

Warmasters might - passive, giving 15% cs. This is extremely useful for warlock. I like it. Only thing I fear is, that it will become a must-have in PvP. Non-wm warlocks will have more difficulties to defeat wm locks, but I suppose that's on purpose.

Mass pricking ivy - "A pricking ivy grows below the opponent's feet and her near allies, surrounding and catching her.".
Duration 4 seconds, Area 6, cost 500 mana, CD 40sec, GCD short, Casting time 0.5.
If we compare this with twister on lvl 1:
Duration 5 seconds, Area 6, cost 290 mana, CD 60sec, GCD normal, Casting time 3 seconds.

Twister is found in the "element tree" along with other useful spells. Many locks skill it on lvl 1. If we compare its mana cost and duration, investing in twister few more points makes it better than "mass pricking ivy". The only advantage of the wm spell would be very short casting. Even then, This spell does not have the "wow, awesome" effect, but it's an extremely expensive spell with a easy substitute.

Warmaster blood - Passive, giving 550 hp to the warlock. This is also a great spell - 550 hp for a lock is useful.


To conclude: apart from the "mass pricking ivy", they are very nice spells. It seems beacons were removed, or given class-specific? The only problem I have with the wm tree is it's order. I would suggest the following order:


Mass pricking ivy - being the "worst" spell in here imho
War concil - useful for coordination, but not having a great impact in pure war
Offensive portal - again, strategic spell, not giving advantage in combat
Warmasters blood - gives a direct combat advantage, very useful
Warmasters might - the "best" spell of the tree imho, should therefore have a position where more points have to be invested, and perhaps some other spells lowered (as will be the case in my setup ;P)


hmmm. I might start playing my warlock again if these go live. Mass prickling Ivy sounds good in theory but the mana cost is just insane even for a class that has an unlimited mana supply. I would probably still use it because the 0.5 second cast is a huge plus for a warlock root.

Is this a point blank AOE or does it work in the same way Twister does. If it does what is the range on it?

Also I doubt having a total of 36% cast speed would make a huge difference since cast speed was fixed. However it would allow warlocks to scrap all the cast speed gear they have. Would be nice if someone can test it for me because my raven accounts can't access amun.

[Rising_Cold]

What are WM powers for conju?

I think conju had that war master council, defesive tele, some kind of extra protection spell
for allies with low cd, the passive cs and the extra hp (but im not sure, read something about it in the other WM topic)

[Ryan_Carmon]

I just went on Amun, new Warmaster Conjurer Spells are:

War Council - Extra chat tab, not available atm
Defensive Portal - Dunno where the locations are
Warmasters Might - 15%cs
Divine Protection - As far as I got this, you can cast it on an ally and while it's active ALL heals on the target make him get 25% more health
Warmasters Blood - 700hp for Conjurers :D

Warmaster Babarian Spells are:
War Council - See above
Warmaster Beacon - Dunno the effect, but the description is the same as for the old Offensive Beacon
Warmasters Might - 15% bonus strength
Heroic Shout - 25% aoe slow, duration 5, radius 6, cd 30, cost 150
Warmaster Blood - just 300 HP

Would love if someone could add the respective archer spells, dunno if i shall get hunter or marks wm first :P

[roonwick]

I really like the War Council power. It will allow warmasters to more easily coordinate and communicate with different groups, which is very warmaster-ish. It turns you into a war leader because of a slight informational advantage.

[errei]

is war council suposed to work on all distant spots on the map or just gonna be a particular version of nearby players chat (general)?

[Shwish]

Now that only mages have portals, are the cooldowns getting a reduction?

Also +1 for the War Council passive. It sounds awesome.

[Vincent_Valentine7]

And the Warmaster Hunter skills

[gluffs]

And the Warmaster Hunter skills

My favorite hunter spell is back, tho somewhat nerfed then its previous version.

[Imago-Thunderfist]

So, knight is supposed to be the last man standing, hardest to die and gets 350 health from warmaster blood? Hmm, interesting.

[Immune]

My favorite hunter spell is back, tho somewhat nerfed then its previous version.

It's extremely nerfed actually. HotP used to be passive, with max +75 damage regardless of weapon damage. This version is just like all other damage boosting powers which favor slow+hard hitting weapons.

Also 250 mana for 10% damage for 30 seconds with 2min cd is quite bad; look at dirty fighting: 120 mana at level 1 for 30% damage for 10 seconds with a 30 second cd. I'm not sure this is worth skilling to be honest, it won't help much if at all in a fort fight, in its current condition anyways...

HotP aside, I wish hunters could get something stealth-related for a WM power.

[Zas_]

It's extremely nerfed actually. HotP used to be passive, with max +75 damage regardless of weapon damage. This version is just like all other damage boosting powers which favor slow+hard hitting weapons.

Also 250 mana for 10% damage for 30 seconds with 2min cd is quite bad; look at dirty fighting: 120 mana at level 1 for 30% damage for 10 seconds with a 30 second cd. I'm not sure this is worth skilling to be honest, it won't help much if at all in a fort fight, in its current condition anyways...



Well, i guess (hope) Amun WM powers aren't definitive.

This HotP version isn't that great, but don't forget it applies to all in area.


Overall, from what i saw i have following comments:
- wtf an area slow spell for barbarians, i totally disagree, enough OPness, at most, knights should have this
- Horn of the Wind was slightly nerfed 25% to 20%
- +amount of health spells are bad, they increased imbalance too much imho between wm and non wm, it should be instead an increase of health/mana regeneration speed.
- Cost in Discipline points was increased for wm powers
- Offensive beacons are still there :(


HotP aside, I wish hunters could get something stealth-related for a WM power.

Like a useful Stalker Surrounding (10m area, short casting time, short duration, unlimited allies, no speed debuff, cannot be used alone) ? ;)

[Wield_II]

Nice, no more teletubies?

[Ryan_Carmon]

Teleporters are still there, but only on WM mages. Other classes don't have them any more

[NotScias]

Wow at last, I'm very surprised to see a good move concerning WM powers.
I totally agree on subclass-specific WM powers. Finally it will break the monotonous beacon and horn spam and give to each class a purpose of being Warmaster.

However, I find the new spells really boring and déja-vu. I expected new interesting and powerful things that are worth to be in the WM tree, but we get instead some clones of existing spells. One of the best examples is the WM Warlock "mass Ivy" spell which is at best a bad clone of twister...

-1 also on the Barbarian WM slow area. Barbarians are the fastest class of the game and giving them another speed advantage like this one (with 30s cd...) will just allow them to massacre entire groups in RvR.

-1 for offensive beacon still being there. They should be removed.

+0 About giving +15% CS instead of +15% Main Attribute for Mages. It would have been better to fix Intelligence for scalable spells instead IMO.

-1 for the +hp passive. This makes WMs even more OP versus non-WMs. WM powers should be more about team support or areas than self-buffs IMO.

I wish more of these spells would be like the Conjurer's one Divine Protection because this one is original and worth of the WM tree even if the initiative of Subclass-specific WM spells is very good. I made some subclass WM spells suggestions (http://www.regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77619) a long time ago.

[Balint]

I like the new WM powers. The base idea is good for almost each subclass. At least there is some thinking and design behind them.
Feedback:
- Mark's hit chance boost is useless in the current game version
- Hunter's head of pack should give a fixed amount of damage (+10% is nothing) or replace by an another spell
- I hope barb's offensive beacon's effect will be lowered or smtg. However I like this, at least it won't be spammed so recently.
- Hp boost is not a bad idea, somehow warmasters should be stronger, more hp is a fair option. (maxed WM tree)
- WM chat is also a good idea.
- Hotw at archers is also great, because barbs won't be able to use it as a "better spring spell", they need some basic teamwork to get the speed. There is only one problem: WM marks can be very OP in hunting or small scale fights, by "run and shot" tactic, they will be uncatchable by non-archers...
- Mage spells are OK.

[Phlue4]

I think that the passive health bonus is said to compensate some things in terms of balance ..

[Frosk]

I already wrote this but I think it should have it's own thread so hopefully it will get more attention.

Ok it's great new warmaster powers are coming into play, it really is. However I hope that the powers on amun are just something completely in the works and not set into stone. I mean, just look at the knight wm powers for example. Battle mend, the easier one to unlock that takes less points, heals 250/450 witha cd of 40 seconds and costs 200 mana with 0.5 casting seconds.

Mend, a harder to gain spell farther down the tree, takes 250 mana, costs 1 second to cast, and heals one ally for 200 hp witha cd of 90 seconds. Why would I want to heal someone for 200 hp??? That won't help at all in any scenario almost. There's clearly some mistakes, how can the first spells available be so much better than the second. And those heals, of 200 is really low for a spell that takes 250 mana and 90 sec cd. There are already so many useless spells in this game, let's not add to them, try to make your spells appealing. Why use mend a high ranking knight wm spell for 250 mana, with 1 second cast time and 90 sec cd, when i can use protect ally lv 5? It would be nice if mend had a secondary effect like 50% armor bonus on the ally cast or something. Be creative! Let wm skills be something everyone would want, not something that is meh. It's a wm power, make it heal by more than a lv 10 conju can. Make mend heal at least 600, imagine how fun support knights would be to the team then. No one will skill a 200 hp heal and think it is useful, for god's sake it isn't even insta cast, it's one second, the allies always run around and never stand in one spot how will a knight heal them, make it range 10 or something make it fun! We all know how fights are and it would be a waste to heal by 200 only for your opponent to hit you by 700 or 2000 in the case of some barbs.

Seriously, RO is my favorite game and I think you guys did an awesome job with it, it pwns the competition imo. But look at the skills you make more carefully because if you release this kind of stuff you will only add to Kharbon's list of useless spells in RO. And it would be a shame if WM ones are the useless ones. Make them fun and attractive, like 'HOLY Sh**!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wish I had that spell kinda thing.' You guys can get alot of fans with your new update or you can get a meh response, make the wm powers super fun, it will be worth it. When I first got army of one when i hit 37 for the first time I was like FK YEAAAAAAAA, when I get mend as a warmaster I'll just remember how cool Ao1 is..

Hello!

Even though these skills are not definitive, I'd like to state clear that both Mend skills are not meant to surpass Conjurer's abilities.

It actually makes sense that Mend should be in Battle Mend's place, but keeping that aside; Mend is meant to make the knight hold up a bit more. Considering the health passive, and the possibility that now the knight can heal himself at least a bit (a knight will be able to reach almost 6k without the use of rings or equipment with health or constitution bonuses), gives him more possibilities to hold up a bit more when fighting enemies. This goes even further if 2 knights team up to tank a numerous group of enemies (coordinating Ao1; auras; Mends; Battle Mends; etc.).

Onto Battle Mend, this one can heal on a range from 250 to 450, at least in the version now available in Amun.
Considering the existence of Divine Protection, these ranges go up to 312-560 aprox., which are more than interesting numbers for a warrior that's able to heal.

Short version: These are not skills meant to compete in any way against Conj's skills, which is a subclass who can specially dedicate on healing himself and his allies.
I understand that you'd love to see a knight healing an ally for 600 HP, but that could be wrongly seen by Conjurers, and considering that there aren't many Support Conjurers, to allow Knights to heal even more when this is only a "plus" for the subclass, could lead to unnecessary role-playing and gameplay conflicts.

Regards!