Sotw/Escapist.

[Akagami]

Hi guys, as the title says I d like to ask about Escapist and Son of the wind spells.Escapist says +500 evade chance while sotw says +1500 spell resistance.
What does these values mean in percentage, does anyone know
or is there any thread that tells smt bout em? I d be glad to know
cause these spells look pretty random to me.

P.S:2 recent pics showing the fail of those spells, just an example.

35054

35055

Regards

[Shwish]

Hi guys, as the title says I d like to ask about Escapist and Son of the wind spells.Escapist says +500 evade chance while sotw says +1500 spell resistance.
What does these values mean in percentage, does anyone know
or is there any thread that tells smt bout em? I d be glad to know
cause these spells look pretty random to me.


I doubt anybody has any documentation about the effectiveness of the fixed values for SoTW and Escapist. How resists and evades are calculated is a common question and it will never ever be responded to unfortunately.

What I can tell you is that a player is unable to resist or evade while he is knocked. So if your opponent is lucky enough to kick you through SoTW, both SoTW and Escapist will be noneffective for the duration of the knock.

Also, Son of the Wind is not meant to be a god-mode spell like it used to be. I see the fact that it fails every so often as a good thing.

[Akagami]

Well my point was about the values, what percentage they represent.It'd be good to know +500 for example is 10% chance of evasion .
This could show me how much I could rely on those spells.Thx for response though, if someone has smt more accurate bout these spells feel free to comment.

Regards

[Awrath]

Unfortunately, no one but NGD knows the formula behind these numbers.

It would however equate with your opponents hit chance as well as tie in with NGD's RNG. It really is impossible for us to determine what these numbers mean. I think I remember an NGD representative stating in the past that they wont reveal their formulas, once I get home from work I will try to find the post.

[Freeverse]

A bit off topic, but ...

... you have my sincere empathy, when i see a barb doing 860-1400 dmg on you through Evasive Tactics (5) and Acrobatics (5). This is really the essence of imbalance in this beautiful game.

[Raely]

Just a wild guess from experience... SOTW seems to be around 70% resist.
Can't say about escapist, it always sucked for me. :P

Also, keep in mind that these spells take a "while" to work correctly. If you get a "Kick" right after you casted SOTW, chances are high that it will work,

[Akagami]

Thx for the responses everyone.So if as Raely said sotw is 70% protection that means escapist is around 30%.Hmmm although 70% sounds enough high percentage to me it seems that sotw fails much more frequently than that.Anyway thx again for the info I was just curious to know :).

[Tamui]

Thx for the responses everyone.So if as Raely said sotw is 70% protection that means escapist is around 30%.Hmmm although 70% sounds enough high percentage to me it seems that sotw fails much more frequently than that.Anyway thx again for the info I was just curious to know :).

Well he said it's a wild guess, as everyone stated no one know s the real value, so it depends alot on luck :p

[Awrath]

Couldn't find the post I referred to earlier. Perhaps I imagined it! But yeah, formulas are unknown, let's see if anyone from NGD is willing to share this information!

Would be great to know the formulas not just behind evasion and spell resistance but other values such as hit chance, concentration, constitution etc...

[Kitsuni]

Unfortunately Escapist and SOTW are not +1500 and +500, respectively. Character window shows Escapist as half of that, and SOTW likely too. It seems that NGD applies the numbers in a non-linear formula.Yyou can use Dodge(1) to greatly improve the results of Escapist (by 30%).

However Spell elude doesn't improve SOTW in the same way because its a fixed bonus, not a percentage.

The exact formula isn't known, however it is theroized that 'spell resistance' is simply added to intelligence (e.g 55 + 55) and then weighted against enemy spell focus. This would make perfect sense as it is also how blocks and evades work (which is a known formula), however spell focus is an unknown value.

In theory, the current implementation of Spell elude gives ~double base resist chances. Hoewver, that is still very low (~10-15% from tests).

[VandaMan]

Part of the problem with trying to come up with exact percentages for these kinds of things is that it simply does not translate into a constant percentage. Your spell resistance and evade chance are at some point, in some way, compared against the enemies spell focus or hit chance. So the likelihood of evades and resists is different depending on who you fight.

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

Part of the problem with trying to come up with exact percentages for these kinds of things is that it simply does not translate into a constant percentage. Your spell resistance and evade chance are at some point, in some way, compared against the enemies spell focus or hit chance. So the likelihood of evades and resists is different depending on who you fight.

... Which exactly covers Pay to Win scheme.:)

[Tigerious]

I see two kick in combat log, this could explain :]

[Nekoko]

You could always use sotw check how many resists you get vs failures and do this oh say ~1000-5000 times and get a pretty good average of the chance. This is done in many other mmorpgs where the players are heavily devoted, I haven't seen anyone do much numbering like this in Regnum.

[Lebeau]

Just from looking at my combat log after fights, I'd say native evade & resist is about 10-15% currently (but also over past year or so this % has significantly fluctuated periodically as NGD tinkered with their system, but put nada in the changelog about doing so). Imho, SotW & Esc seem to boost those totals to around 50-55% (if unknocked). As others have stated, the math on this seems to translate into something non-linear, non-constant, & non-%-based, but like them, idk.

I do know however that the more people who play who choose to cheat by editing their data packets to boost their own attack & spell focus totals, &/or their own evade & resist totals, makes accurate mapping of anything related to any of those things impossible. NGD won't tell us the formulas & I'm completely ok with that, just as long as they begin the process of coding either 1. RO without their totally-exploitable, shared server/client game architecture or 2. a really hard & thorough multi-spectrum sniffing of all returning data packets & then, perma-banning all confirmed, repeat offender cheaters (3 strikes/you out: 1st=loss of level, 2nd=loss of toon, 3rd=loss of account) & no exceptions.

[_Yuvi_]

I do know however that the more people who play who choose to cheat by editing their data packets to boost their own attack & spell focus totals, &/or their own evade & resist totals, makes accurate mapping of anything related to any of those things impossible. NGD won't tell us the formulas & I'm completely ok with that, just as long as they begin the process of coding either 1. RO without their totally-exploitable, shared server/client game architecture or 2. a really hard & thorough multi-spectrum sniffing of all returning data packets & then, perma-banning all confirmed, repeat offender cheaters (3 strikes/you out: 1st=loss of level, 2nd=loss of toon, 3rd=loss of account) & no exceptions.

Here's a challenge: Can anyone come up with a more paranoid theory about resists and evades than this? =D

[Shwish]

Just from looking at my combat log after fights, I'd say native evade & resist is about 10-15% currently (but also over past year or so this % has significantly fluctuated periodically as NGD tinkered with their system, but put nada in the changelog about doing so).

The problem is that archers only pay attention to the spells that make it through Son of the Wind and don't care too much about the ones that don't. If a warlock is bold enough to try to cast spells through Son of the Wind, this is generally what his log would look like:

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/sketch59/screenshot2012-11-1708_01_36.jpg

She cast son of the wind after the Ivy.

[GreenAngel]

Imo I think SotW and Escapist shouldn't be "bullet proof". It gives the game some dynamic, you can't just spam these spells and stay alive. I like that part.

[Kitsuni]

The problem is that archers only pay attention to the spells that make it through Son of the Wind and don't care too much about the ones that don't. If a warlock is bold enough to try to cast spells through Son of the Wind, this is generally what his log would look like:

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/sketch59/screenshot2012-11-1708_01_36.jpg

She cast son of the wind after the Ivy.
Agreed.. SOTW works well enough, it just shouldn't STOP working when you get knocked!

But its still much easier to use MOD to counter SOTW than to try to spam spells on it, unless Will domain works.

However, it is my personal opinion that these spells should be worked in a way similar to Precise block and Army of one, to be reliable. Filling your game with chance spells may seem like its better for fairness, but in reality even many losses when outnumbered occur because of chance failures.

The same goes for Unstoppable madness; Now that beacons and horn are gone, it could easily be 100% for 10sec.

[blood-raven]

Son of the wind:
Evades and resists 100% of all spells and attacks
Duration: 6 seconds
Can not attack/dizzy
Mana: 200

there

Footnote: hunters shouldnt be able to camo when they evade or resist spells/normals

[Shwish]

Son of the wind:
Evades and resists 100% of all spells and attacks
Duration: 6 seconds
Can not attack/dizzy
Mana: 200

there

Footnote: hunters shouldnt be able to camo when they evade or resist spells/normals

Remove the can not attack/dizzy and I think its perfect. No point having another low profile.

[Zas_]

Remove the can not attack/dizzy and I think its perfect. No point having another low profile.

Agreed, and cooldown should be much shorter also (80 seconds doesn't make sense if duration is under 10s).

Effect: 100% resists
Duration: 3 seconds + 1 second/level (4,5,6,7,8)
Cooldown: 40 seconds
Casting time: instant
GCD: short
Mana: 260 + 20/level (280,300,320,340,360)

[Freeverse]

Remove the can not attack/dizzy and I think its perfect.

6 sec of sotw is accaptable against archers/warriors, but i hardly can imagine to win with a skilled lock with only 6 sec of protection against his spells. After that 6 sec the lock starts a variation of the "meteor->will domain->lightning/soulkeeper->master of doom/darkness"-combo and you can't do anything to protect yourself ... or?

[Shwish]

6 sec of sotw is accaptable against archers/warriors, but i hardly can imagine to win with a skilled lock with only 6 sec of protection against his spells. After that 6 sec the lock starts a variation of the "meteor->will domain->lightning/soulkeeper->master of doom/darkness"-combo and you can't do anything to protect yourself ... or?

Irrespective of its duration, its an instant cast combo chain breaker. Even if it lasted 2 seconds it would be deadly to a warlock because it shifts the control of a fight towards the archer.

[Freeverse]

Irrespective of its duration, its an instant cast combo chain breaker. Even if it lasted 2 seconds it would be deadly to a warlock because it shifts the control of a fight towards the archer.

There are two scenarios for a hunter from the top of my head:

1) He activates sotw after ambush is over. During the 6 sec he uses confuse, cb+dirty fighting+ensnare and takes with a bit of luck 1/3 of the locks hp. Once sotw is over the lock uses his chain and all you can do is hope, that you can kill him with normals or eventually treehug.

2) The hunter saves sotw for "later". In that case he gets a meteor or will domain just after ambush is over ... and the rest is like above.

[Zas_]

There are two scenarios for a hunter from the top of my head:

1) He activates sotw after ambush is over. During the 6 sec he uses confuse, cb+dirty fighting+ensnare and takes with a bit of luck 1/3 of the locks hp. Once sotw is over the lock uses his chain and all you can do is hope, that you can kill him with normals or eventually treehug.

2) The hunter saves sotw for "later". In that case he gets a meteor or will domain just after ambush is over ... and the rest is like above.

3) hunter is smart, use range, distshot, stunfist, lowpro, etc...

Such change will change nothing on your ability to kill or no an enemy in 1vs1, especially if cooldown is shorter.
But it will less frustrating spell for all, and it would be equally efficient vs many enemies (which is the main issue with current sotw).

I think Sotw should be somehow Low Profile but without debuff/cannot attack limitation, for higher mana cost and higher in tree.

[Lebeau]

Originally posted by _Yuvi_
Here's a challenge: Can anyone come up with a more paranoid theory about resists and evades than this? =D Pardon the cross-examination, but you aren't actually suggesting that no one playing shared server-client game architecture RO uses data-packet numeric-editing to greatly boost their attack, spell focus, resist & evade %'s, are you?...because it is NOT paranoia if it's true...& sad to say, like it or not, it is ENTIRELY true. Eyes wide open & do the math....

We all see & some tend to notice ... ya' know, the 'players' who without any spells like bless, e's eye, esc, sotw, etc. at all who still somehow ROUTINELY enjoy almost always landing all their blows & spells on you, while resisting & evading everything thrown at them around 3 times more often than base %'s should allow (c. 45%+/- instead of 10-15%). When such people play their archers & use esc &/or sotw, this evade/resist rate is closer to 90%+/- effective.

[kmdk]

Irrespective of its duration, its an instant cast combo chain breaker. Even if it lasted 2 seconds it would be deadly to a warlock because it shifts the control of a fight towards the archer.

There is no way to breack loop of CC of a warlock with a archer.

If he combine all his dizzy spells any archer is fucked,even he combine meteor with wild domain.

Warlock have the most complete and complexe CC loops from the game .

The only fragile barrier is range between a archer and a warlock,even between a warrior and a warlock.

A lvl 60 warlock have a ton of combination of almost unstopable loops.

-Meteor +lightning+ice blast +wild domain +mana burn +magna blast +metteor etc ....

Even with areas a warlock can keep this very powerfull loops with easy.

Slow spells+freez+knocks+dizzy vs warriors and dizzy+knoks+dots vs archers or other mages.....

Loops of spells or CC was a issue from the begin of the game over all classes.
In fact is the most frustrating think ever,to stay dizzy or to stay on ground till you die.

Whatever ,SOTW is just RNG with max 10% attributs of target and defender.

And this number of 1500 is just a mask of real value.It is easy to adjust the real % value of resists with this mask because noone knows what means this for real.If they put a % value players will cry and ask why is only 50% or why is 90%.

[Shwish]

There is no way to breack loop of CC of a warlock with a archer.


I stopped reading here because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Archers, more particularly marksman, have more ways to break a warlocks CC chain than any other class. The only way prevent an archer from doing this is with darkness and even that isn't enough to stop a marksman with his instant dizzy and freeze anyway.

[kmdk]

I stopped reading here because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Archers, more particularly marksman, have more ways to break a warlocks CC chain than any other class. The only way prevent an archer from doing this is with darkness and even that isn't enough to stop a marksman with his instant dizzy and freeze anyway.

I play both marksman and warlock ,and if you keep reading that post you will understant or not.
The fragile line it is in range.
If warlock is in range ,a marksman it is a easy meat..wtv read entire post before giving a half conclusion.

darknes ???wuahahahahahah

why ?...you have meteor ,you have wild domain ,you have so much loops of CC..wtv... bias is bias ,putting a mark before reading is .....

[_Kharbon_]

I play both marksman and warlock ,and if you keep reading that post you will understant or not.
The fragile line it is in range.
If warlock is in range ,a marksman it is a easy meat..wtv read entire post before giving a half conclusion.

darknes ???wuahahahahahah

why ?...you have meteor ,you have wild domain ,you have so much loops of CC..wtv... bias is bias ,putting a mark before reading is .....

I agree with Swish on this. Marksman is stronger than warlock, even in close range. Instant (or fast-cast) spells, such as burst of wind, SoTW or freeze give marks the upper hand in PvP battles.
Darkness is a great (imho actually OP) spell for preventing target buffing up, but since it's quite difficult to sneak up on marks, it is quite useless in some instances.

Speaking of combos. Yes, walocks are known for their ability to chain enemies to death, but:


Believe it or not, chains are not easy to manage, due to many resists, cast times, durations, movement of enemy etc.
Single resist can screw you up totally
Spells such as beetle swarm, pricking ivy or the needed cast time after freezing usually result in the marksman going into sotw or using BoW to get out of danger.

I have a WM warlock, and I can say that it's very difficult to beat a marksman in a fair PvP, if he has some knowledge and experience.


Yes, we have meteor and will domain. So if I see a marks in range, I cast meteor, and then have to get close to him, which means to cast ivy and run to him. That's duration of the dizzy over, and I might get a will domain on him. Supposing that all went well, I have a choice to cast ice blast and lighting, but risk him going into sotw, or choosing darkness and silence to stop him breaking my combo (beetle swarm or any kind of freeze just result in him going into sotw, knocking him with terror, or something is out of question). Now, doing only minimal damage, vital spells on cooldown. Basically any further chain can be countered by Bow, Sotw, ambush or freeze, to let the marks escape.


The "unbreakable chain of cc's", that you mention in your previous post could work, if the marksman was in 10 meter radius for will domain, and didn''t even attempt to run away. I doubt that anyone would do that. THerefore the combo you describe is flawed.

I hope I proved my point.

[Tamui]

Warlock shouldn't let his target escape either.
True Marksman hit high, and Energy Barrier doesn't put much of a fight. However, atleast for me, whenever I have fought a Warlock in close range, I have probably have lost more than I have won.

About Softw, it is indeed a great and shitty spell in the same time. I think everyone wants it to work versus locks, but tbh, I don't find it that much of a deal. Doesn't anyone treehug whenever he gets dizzied as a mage?
Just my opinion on Warlocks; as a Marks, when they catch me they just burn all my mana and keep me 24/7 unable to move or attack or cast. No mana = -40% Weapon Damage Bonus gone, that and my HP would be down to around 1K or less

[kmdk]

The "unbreakable chain of cc's", that you mention in your previous post could work, if the marksman was in 10 meter radius for will domain, and didn''t even attempt to run away. I doubt that anyone would do that. THerefore the combo you describe is flawed.

I hope I proved my point.

That was just a minimal example of very basic that a warlock loops has.

There are tons of powerfull combinations of loops ,my point in range fragile line it was 25 range vs 35 range ...

You can combo in other way too also:
-silence+sadict servants+mana burn + meteor +lightning+ice blast+soul keeper +freez
-meteor +dots+dots+knock(sultar or wild domain+mana drain+mana burn+silence+hp drain


etc..etc

The combination of this loops are incredible ...and yes there is a fragile line ,

A archer need to combine only 2 spells Bow + SOTW...

What will happen if bow resist or sotw fail ? :D... a archer need to wait around 45 seconds to try again this single loop of CC ...i don't think he will ever stay alive 45 seconds vs warlok in open field....

And warlock can recover his lost loop if he mets a ordinary marksman with 300 dmg /hit ,recasting energy barier ,dizzy spell +soulkeeper ,vampirism ,+mana drain ...an here you go again with other loop of CC+dots.

[Freeverse]

I agree with Swish on this. Marksman is stronger than warlock, even in close range.

I agree with kmdk on this ;-)

Marks have bigger range, but most hunters will attack a warlock from out of camo. I prefere close distance to use dirty fighting + cold blood. When Ambush works and the lock is unbuffed he will be dead 9 out of 10 times.
But when ambush doesn't work and the lock casts meteor on me i won't survive this, because for the next 30 sec i won't be able to cast any spells.

[_Kharbon_]

That was just a minimal example of very basic that a warlock loops has.

There are tons of powerfull combinations of loops ,my point in range fragile line it was 25 range vs 35 range ...

You can combo in other way too also:
-silence+sadict servants+mana burn + meteor +lightning+ice blast+soul keeper +freez
-meteor +dots+dots+knock(sultar or wild domain+mana drain+mana burn+silence+hp drain


etc..etc

The combination of this loops are incredible ...and yes there is a fragile line ,

A archer need to combine only 2 spells Bow + SOTW...

What will happen if bow resist or sotw fail ? :D... a archer need to wait around 45 seconds to try again this single loop of CC ...i don't think he will ever stay alive 45 seconds vs warlok in open field....

And warlock can recover his lost loop if he mets a ordinary marksman with 300 dmg /hit ,recasting energy barier ,dizzy spell +soulkeeper ,vampirism ,+mana drain ...an here you go again with other loop of CC+dots.

Those cc chains are missing a vital spell - pricking ivy. But fair enough.
Most warlocks don't cast spells on enemy under sotw, as it's just a waste. Maybe try a freeze or two, but I would not spend spells such as meteor or beetle swarm on an archer under sotw.
Most marks have the ability of bow, freeze, ambush, stunfist and stun. Aside with sotw and perhaps other defensive buffs, marks has a great chance to break and escape a combo. Don't forget that he can always kite or just run away. Energy barrier lasts about three hits from an average marksman, and there are also usefull dots that marks has to damage lock (force him to self-dispell, which takes time). Ethereal arrow also ignores barrier.

I agree with kmdk on this ;-)

Marks have bigger range, but most hunters will attack a warlock from out of camo. I prefere close distance to use dirty fighting + cold blood. When Ambush works and the lock is unbuffed he will be dead 9 out of 10 times.
But when ambush doesn't work and the lock casts meteor on me i won't survive this, because for the next 30 sec i won't be able to cast any spells.

I was at no point talking about hunters here. I do agree on the approach with hunter, as I use it too. However, marksmen do not have the advantage of camo, and we assume that the lock and marks see each other before engaging in PvP in close range. I still do believe that there is a great chance of breaking cc chains.

I admit that I do not play a war-capable marksman, but from my warlock perspective, marksman are tougher to PvP than any other class (well, except skilled warjurers), including other warlocks.

On an endnote: With my hunter, the easiest class to kill is warlock (discounting support conjurers). Great advantage is camo and cold-blood, but marks have spells more than substituting.

[Shwish]

You can combo in other way too also:
-silence+sadict servants+mana burn + meteor +lightning+ice blast+soul keeper +freez
-meteor +dots+dots+knock(sultar or wild domain+mana drain+mana burn+silence+hp drain
.

This is where you lack of experience as a warlock comes to light. You cannot squeeze two spells into the duration of a silence or meteor (ever since the cast speed fix). You can try against a hunter because his CC's aren't as good as a marksmans but 9 times of out 10 the marksman will freeze or dizzy (or SoTW, low profile) you before the warlock get that second CC off. You going to have to overlap CC's in order to keep the chain up which will resort to you having to resort to freezes. Anybody who's played the warlock class knows that using a freeze on an archer who doesn't have a darkness on him will result in a SoTW as soon as the freeze ends (same with will domain no matter how good your timing is). At that point the warlock is as good as dead. This is of course assuming the archer doesn't run out of range or for an obstacle during the duration of the silence in which case the fight can go either way.

Also Will Domain is a completely unreliable spell and for reason gets resisted 80% of the time for me irrespective or SoTW or level of your opponent. I don't invest more than 1 power point into that spell anymore.

I would say that you haven't played your warlock enough to make such comments about them and these so called "CC loops" you were able to maintain were on total scrubs who have no idea what they're doing. Either that or you're basing your comments on experiences you've had with other warlocks on your marksman in which case makes you a terrible marksman.

[VandaMan]

This is where you lack of experience as a warlock comes to light. You cannot squeeze two spells into the duration of a silence or meteor (ever since the cast speed fix).

Yes you can, depending on gear, level of the spell, and which spells you're casting between CCs, of course.

[Rever_]

Son of the wind:
Evades and resists 100% of all spells and attacks
Duration: 6 seconds
Can not attack/dizzy
Mana: 200

there

Footnote: hunters shouldnt be able to camo when they evade or resist spells/normals

This is a low profile without losing buff and the possibility of recibe buffs.

Yes you can, depending on gear, level of the spell, and which spells you're casting between CCs, of course.
Only if you use meteor and silence at 5. if not you can´t cast 2 dots. And you need to cast Ivy too, because if not the archer will run away.

[VandaMan]

Yes you can, depending on gear, level of the spell, and which spells you're casting between CCs, of course.
Only if you use meteor and silence at 5. if not you can´t cast 2 dots. And you need to cast Ivy too, because if not the archer will run away.

http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/v1/designs/11737840,width=190,height=190/You-Don-t-Say-.png

[_Kharbon_]

This is a low profile without losing buff and the possibility of recibe buffs.


Only if you use meteor and silence at 5. if not you can´t cast 2 dots. And you need to cast Ivy too, because if not the archer will run away.

Even with decent cast gear (20cs and arc. devotion) you can't cast meteor, lighting and ice blast and other knock without giving the archer a time frame when he can cast Sotw.