Confused by the mid section of this game

[bunglehaze]

Hi guys, I have been playing RO now for 6 days and amassed a pretty respectable lvl 32 on my lock, so far until now I have been really impressed but have hit that mid-level plateau and I cannot understand why the game follows this logic.

As with a number of other players I have come across I have a long history in WoW and have played for many years before getting bored with having to pay for an expansion and again for playing - with that in mind though that is the only real game I have to compare this too - on the whole RO is pretty good though, so what is my issue?

Well I noticed a couple of levels ago that quests get few and far between and leave you to grind zones to progress which is not a huge concern, however there are levels where there is seemingly nothing you can do but grind and this is hugely frustrating, tedious and takes a massive portion of fun away from the game. Now at lvl 32 I have a couple of WZ quests and one laid over from lvl 32 as it is a leader - but nothing else. This seems like a huge blank area between starting, getting levelled and eventually going to war, it is almost as if the developers have figured the start and end sections but could not get inspired about the middle. Does anyone else find this?

As a mid level player you are realistically too squishy to be in WZ for any length of time and I cannot see any benefit to going there until much higher level, similarly if grinding levels is the only way to progress there needs to be a much more logical progression with mobs within zones - too many zones are loaded with what become easy and very easy mobs and occasionally something higher may spawn which is not really useful to progression. IMO though the greatest issue here is that the quest plot during the middle of the game is weak at best and ought to be bumped up - using WoW for comparison again, the system they have where there are always more quests available for your level that you can get through is the main reason why players remain 'hooked' through to high levels. Grinding is useful for a number of reasons for drops and skilling up professions - something missing from RO that would otherwise brighten up the hours of tedious grinding with an end goal.

Please do not take this as a negative, more a feedback on where I am right now in the game. Until now I have found a reason to log in as often as possible to play a little here or there but the momentum for me has been lost because there is no clear path to follow that would make levelling 30-60 a pleasure rather than a chore.

Oh, one final thing. Where are the good drops? At level 29 I was still using a level 16 staff, gloves and hat, nothing better came up during 13 levels - that is crazy!

I look forward to hearing other peoples feedback and suggestions too - perhaps I am missing something?

[chilko]

Thanks for your constructive critique.

we where never able to address this properly as we never had the capability to create as many quests as needed to fill the void between level 30 to 60.

considering the average time to level up, if we had to do a similar amount of quests available per would have to add hundreds if not thousands of quests.
To compensate for this we added the realm task board.

Let's see what the community has to say about this issue, maybe you guys have an idea for this?

[Tamui]

Well, if you want to continue leveling, just get tasks to kill mobs and collect loots by the most common mobs. Don't go and try to finish a task "Kill X number of Y Realm." because at that lvl, will be rather difficult.
I've got an alt up to 35 so far, not doing any more quests, just try to find some support, and do tasks.
I agree with you that there aren't not so many quests around 30-40, infact quests stop at lvl40, afaik. However, recently, these Realm Boards have been added, so atleast there is something "spicing" up the game. At higher levels, you might want to buy some boosters, which I wouldn't recommend buying till 50+.
Just my opinion, hope I helped :p

Thanks for your constructive critique.

we where never able to address this properly as we never had the capability to create as many quests as needed to fill the void between level 30 to 60.

considering the average time to level up, if we had to do a similar amount of quests available per would have to add hundreds if not thousands of quests.
To compensate for this we added the realm task board.

Let's see what the community has to say about this issue, maybe you guys have an idea for this?

That would be really nice. I'm writing(in my free time) a Regnum Storyline and writing quests from my ideas, if you want, I'll try to work on them some more and post them here.

[bunglehaze]

Chilko, I am glad it is taken as constructive :) I appreciate that in order to create anything larger you would need more resources and with it more staff which = more money so hats off to you for what NGD already have come up with. The realm tasks still seem a million miles off at lvl 32 though so perhaps finding a way to bridge levels 28 IIRC through to be able to grind in WZ relatively safely would be a better way. I am still finding areas to grind in WZ and have so far been fine until I was quickly despatched by a large group a second ago which has re-inforced that the mid-levels have no real place of their own in the game.

Even just keeping a zone in the inner realms with plentiful challenging, hard and very hard mobs through 30-35 would be useful but IMO just coming up with a repeatable quest chain that means you go through a few levels of mob in the same zone and return to NPC would keep things moving along.

Even finding a way to increase the motivation to grind a certain number of mobs of the correct level to achieve a goal such as a nice weapon or armour, something specific to the class etc would give a reason to keep going. It would seem that I have had better drops in WZ for the last 30% of one level than I have had since lvl 16 in the inner relams - maybe extend some of the loot onto more difficult zones that could be solo'd with a bit of skill or grouped for casual players?

Tamui, I am not following you, my point is that at lvl 32 I am given a quest to kill X number of each realm - if this is not likely to be possible at this level why is it given? It should be held back until a level where it is nearly possible to solo. Otherwise it looks to the player like NGD have thought "we havent really got much for you here - so have this token quest line you cant even begin"

Of course I am just playing devils advocate here though, I am still grinding away in game as I type this - albeit I would be preferring to have a 'purpose' though. The issue I have at this stage is seeing the big picture - is getting to WM really going to be 30 levels of this? All I can see is a future of stand in a circle, pull mobs, kill, rinse and repeat - where's the story?

regards

[Kitsuni]

Thanks for your constructive critique.

we where never able to address this properly as we never had the capability to create as many quests as needed to fill the void between level 30 to 60.

considering the average time to level up, if we had to do a similar amount of quests available per would have to add hundreds if not thousands of quests.
To compensate for this we added the realm task board.

Let's see what the community has to say about this issue, maybe you guys have an idea for this?
Capturing forts could give experience. Many other acccomplishments, such as achievements, could give experience.

At the moment achivements are just for display, but what if they also behaved as quests? You would immediatley have many sources of experience to fill that void, even though they would still only be cosmetic for level 60s who do not earn XP. In other words, it would not harm the end-game.

Also chilko, the quests are kind of overpacked in the lower levels. From level 1-30 there is far too many quests compared to the effort required to complete them and the amount of experience that they give. It would be much more interesting if quests were more spread out, harder, and more rewarding. The quest distribution should be more similar to the 25-30 range, making players grind a little each level, so that they are continually grinding throughout the game, rather than not at all duirng the early levels and then for months on end in the later levels. This "great wall of grinding" is a real game-killer.

Make experience boosters from the item shop affect quests. Currently, they do not, making them relatively useless to questers.

The low level game play has also honestly lost most of its magic over the years. Many of the armors, for example, are never seen in warzone. There's too much gears for low level players, packed too close together, a player only sees an armor set for maybe a day or two, then it is never seen again. It would be better if the gear in these levels was also more spead out, so that high level players (level 40+) had acess to more gear, while low levels had access to less, where it is just wasted. Currently, once you reach level 40 or so, everything becomes so barren and spread out, with very little reward between each level.

This makes it hard to find any motivation or reason to continue grinding past this point.

I would like to see some of the gear from levels 20-50 moved to the 30-60 range to fill the massive void high levels face. It would also help the game to nor suffer from "clone syndrome" where everyone looks exactly the same because all of the high level gear is identical (elite, warmaster, etc.).

[theotherhiveking]

would be better if the gear in these levels was also more spead out, so that high level players (level 40+) had acess to more gear, while low levels had access to less, where it is just wasted. Currently, once you reach level 40 or so, everything becomes so barren and spread out, with very little reward between each level.

This. I never understood why designers do that.


@chilko:

Try rewards other than exp for leveling, so players focus on a something else other than gaining exp while grinding.

For example blacksmiths could ask for some materials for fancy armor or weapons, when you finish the "quest" you get the item, no extra anything.

Say, you ask for a helmet, then you grind for a bit and when you return you get a high quality version of whatever is available at the shops at that level. If the player is focused on completing an armor set then maybe he won't mind the leveling that much, even though he is still leveling.


Again, redistributing the content isn't a bad idea.

When i was on the level 40 range i remember that i kept leveling due to the distribution of content, i would get equipment upgrades on odd levels and extra skill points on even levels, So when i got a new item i had to level up to a odd level, and then i was tempted by the points that were only 1 level away. That kept happening again and again.

I'm still wondering if that was intentional, because i thought it was pretty clever. The grinding was awful, but somehow these "immediate" reward kept me playing.

So maybe the key to solving this problem cheaply is to distract players with more rewards in the middle level range.

[Eyfura]

Thanks for your constructive critique.

we where never able to address this properly as we never had the capability to create as many quests as needed to fill the void between level 30 to 60.

considering the average time to level up, if we had to do a similar amount of quests available per would have to add hundreds if not thousands of quests.
To compensate for this we added the realm task board.

Let's see what the community has to say about this issue, maybe you guys have an idea for this?

Maybe if possible, when you have after the next expansion maybe some time, could you re-consider to rework on the quests? It might be some work, but I believe it would pay the hard job back when more new players stay in the game instead of quitting at lvl10.
More interesting stories (community really could help you with this), different quests - not all the same kill 10 mobs or run around map for 15mins etc. Some quests could take place in warzone, as example you revamped the cemetery and now it looks great but has zero use for people as you got nothing to do there actually. I don't know how the instances will be, but maybe it would be possible to add some quests to do there also.

In syrtis you really have to grind a bit when you are under lvl 10 just to get lvlup and more quests. New players don't maybe realize there is realm task board, but all who have played some mmorpg before know most likely to look for quests. Maybe there could be some quest that introduce newbies to the realm task board aswell.

Another idea would be that, once player reaches lvl50 he is supposed to join the war. Give some small xp reward for WM quests if player is under lvl60. This could encourage people to do these quests at lvl50, and we also could get more people to war which would be great for lesser populated servers.

I hope in future grinding will be history. XP boosters could remain in game, to be secondary option for people who like to kill mobs or lvl-up really fast. Boosters work in war, so they would not be totally useless. If you think this cuts down your income, get other ways to get money from people. Overall, if more people stay in game, more people will buy costumes and mount at some point, lucky boxes etc so I believe getting rid of stupid grind would do good.

Good to hear from the developers in the forum! Makes me feel like someone who have the power to change the game to better might read my post :3

[bunglehaze]

Good to hear from the developers in the forum! Makes me feel like someone who have the power to change the game to better might read my post :3


Agreed.

Levels 1-10 seem to be token quests, very basic for the most part and very easy, so much so that my alt has gone to 10 in no time and I went through the gate a little earlier than my first char to attain a bit more of a challenge. Quest lines like using the Iron Mine just seem like a non-entity, run here, look at this, run a little way, run back and done is a very simplified way to quest and easy enough to do without any work at all. I would have preferred to have had to grind the explosive off a dozen skeletons before I could blow the mine (for example)

Perhaps the starting zone should be toughened up to level 15 with the choice of subclass before you get through the portal being something to work into the plotline. It would not be too difficult to add something in to this effect and would let low level newcomers know that something exciting, a specialisation, is coming up soon.

The other example of grinding for materials for an armour or weapon piece and set are exactly the example I had in mind when I suggested a repeatable quest for grinding. You get a bona-fide reason to keep on hitting the same area over and over, XP and a level is often not quite enough - especially for those who are not used to the way MMORPG's work.

Also, I do not know the dynamics of the ximerian at higher levels but after 5 days playing I bought the 10 EUR pack anyway so the devs get some payment for the game. Perhaps incentivizing the use of premium items could increase money coming in and couple with XP increases, the idea of achievements giving XP is a great tie in to this.

[VandaMan]

@OP: It sounds like in the near future we're going to have that place for mid level players you want. I've heard things about instances, perhaps for specific level ranges, coming soon.

[Raely]

Thanks for your constructive critique.

we where never able to address this properly as we never had the capability to create as many quests as needed to fill the void between level 30 to 60.

considering the average time to level up, if we had to do a similar amount of quests available per would have to add hundreds if not thousands of quests.
To compensate for this we added the realm task board.

Let's see what the community has to say about this issue, maybe you guys have an idea for this?

You could create a quest line for levels 30-60. One quest per level, 30 quests total. Each quest gives 20% of the total exp needed to level up that specific level.

[chilko]

@OP: It sounds like in the near future we're going to have that place for mid level players you want. I've heard things about instances, perhaps for specific level ranges, coming soon.

exactly....................

[Seher]

Let's see what the community has to say about this issue, maybe you guys have an idea for this?

More EP for killing players. Ideally you should get the same experience for a certain time spend killing players and mobs, not sure if that’s doable though. Sure, there’s the risk of it being exploited, but it’s worth risking it. And what can happen? Worst possible outcome is some cheaters get some levels for a bit less work, there’s more risk involved with creating new items, which doesn’t seem to bother you that much. ;-)

You could even let players become less and less exp the more they’ve got via PvP on that day, kinda fatigue like. Same system could be applied to warmaster coins, too, because those quests suck.

You simply can’t create any good PvE content, you can’t create enough quests, and even the quests you’ve got are by today’s standards, pardon me, crap. You need PvP if you want a decent game. It is a risk for revenue*, of course, but one of the many things that pay off (would have paid off) in the long term. I think I already mentioned all of this 3 years ago, but who cares. :P

*so far you don’t even have PvP only boosters, or any booster that works decently for PvP, so don’t complain, lol. I think it would be reasonable to pay for, well, not saving time when grinding but for having fun while doing so.

[Vaylos]

You could also have some WZ related content that is non-confrontational. (well, potentially, because you could run into a hunter or group lead by hunter's tracks at anytime)

Something like taking a quest to go scout a key location in the WZ. When you get to the area, you have to remain there for something like 30 seconds to "scout" it, and then have to run back. This might be something for upper-mid level players, but if someone gets lucky and doesn't run into enemy groups, they could potentially complete it at a lower level.

Something like, "go to X, stay within 50m of X for Y Seconds, then come back" These could potentially be repeatable as well, so maybe they would be something for the task board system. The location doesn't necessarily have to be a fort (though it could be) they could also be places like the graveyard, or the ruined house, stonehenge, or the markets (not CS market since it's too close to save and you'd get caught immediately)

Or, as another thought, get a quest to go to a certain place, and you have to hold the place with your group for X number of minutes. These could be open locations like orc camps, or bridges, grinding areas, etc. This could also help promote open-field RvR or Group vs. Group. If you get killed, then you have to hope for a ressurect, or run back to the point within a certain time or before the "timer" runs out for holding the position, maybe. If you manage to stay alive and hold the position, you get maybe RP and XP for doing the quest. Maybe a random "special" piece of equipment as a reward.

There should also be a certain amount of dynamic to the "hold point" type of quest. If the realm with the quest is to hold an area in an enemy realm, that enemy realm should have a quest in turn to go repel the intruders. If the point gets held, maybe this promotes a small bonus to your allies, and a small malus to the enemy that failed to hold the point (fort doors slightly weaker, or fewer guards/weaker guards or something) If the point is lost, then there is no bonus or malus, but the quest is considered failed, and disappears from the log. Neither side gets any bonus or malus, but the quest may be attempted again at another randomized location. (bridges, orc camps, ruins, named areas on the map, etc.)

These kinds of quests might help spread the population around as well so it's not always a zerg farming a fort, and this would help promote groups against groups as well.

Also, if two different realms get a quest to hold the same point, then the groups would have to basically fight it out as a "last man standing" kinda situation. If both realms manage to keep their members in the location, then both complete the quest successfully, unless the intruded upon realm manages to flush both groups out, of course. Which, if both realms succeed in holding the point, this would imply a double-malus for the 3rd realm, which is really bad. So the 3rd realm would be encouraged to take a good sized army to flush both groups out.

Of course, this is all very complex, but I'm merely brainstorming. Perhaps a simplified version could be designed or something.

[AkaiChiPM]

May I suggest a contest where us players are challenged to create quests or a string of quests to fill the void between level 30 and level 60?

The reward should be something symbolic such as some scrolls or a box. And I say "symbolic" because if the game gets enriched with new interesting elements that encourage people to play is a good thing!

[LittleHomer]

You could create a quest line for levels 30-60. One quest per level, 30 quests total. Each quest gives 20% of the total exp needed to level up that specific level.

Momentary, I'm leveling a new character in Ignis ... It's just too hard to get level 30 up to 40. Skills are too low for leveling and there are too few quests.

Would be very nice, if something gets changed!

[cokyy]

exactly....................

When Chilko.. When!!

Give us a date, and yes you can use both synonyms I would like both !

[Monthser]

[QUOTE=bunglehaze;1666997]...Oh, one final thing. Where are the good drops? At level 29 I was still using a level 16 staff, gloves and hat, nothing better came up during 13 levels - that is crazy! QUOTE]

That's the big problem nowadays. In the past you could get some nice drops every now and day when grinding. Some time after the wm expansion drop rate was diminish to 0.0001. The only way you can now get decent gear is through commerce (tab), and then only if you pay with magnanites (and I am talking about hundreds of them). Alas at the AH most of the items (specially for lvl +50) are pretty worthless. Of course you can buy diamond lucky boxes :) to get nice gear. For that you have to buy ximerin with real money.

[Seher]

When Chilko.. When!!

New expansion in December SNT (standard NGD time), for conversion to normal time add ~one month. :p

[Kitsuni]

Of course you can buy platina boxes to get good gear. For that you have to buy ximerin with real money.
Of course I read this as platyna boxes...

[Shwish]

NGD need to stick to their strengths in this matter. What we all love about this game and what keeps us coming back is the PvP aspect of this game. It is unique and unlike any other game I have played. For this reason I would say that all PvE should stop around level 45 and leveling through PvP made easier after that point. A bigger variety of PvP quests as suggested above. More premium ways to speed it up. More PvP content. Instances will help a great deal because lower levels won't be afraid of being blown up by level 60's. Fix the armour system so lower levels could be a little more effective in the warzone.

[Phlue4]

More EP for killing players. Ideally you should get the same experience for a certain time spend killing players and mobs, not sure if that’s doable though[...]

I don't think that this is necessary since the xp-award from other players is not that bad.
Nevertheless, a XP boost, only for war, useful for all character classes, is missing.

[Kitsuni]

NGD need to stick to their strengths in this matter. What we all love about this game and what keeps us coming back is the PvP aspect of this game. It is unique and unlike any other game I have played. For this reason I would say that all PvE should stop around level 45 and leveling through PvP made easier after that point. A bigger variety of PvP quests as suggested above. More premium ways to speed it up. More PvP content. Instances will help a great deal because lower levels won't be afraid of being blown up by level 60's. Fix the armour system so lower levels could be a little more effective in the warzone.
I think if the Warmaster quests gave up to 10,000 gold and experience each, levelling after 50 would be greatly eased.

That would be 25,000 extra experience per day, 175,000 XP a week, and a player would be able to complete an entire level in the lower 50s within a month using only the Warmaster quests and no grinding (not counting XP from war). This is still a long time, so it probably wouldn't harm booster sales.

But it would allow even those minimal-grinding, uber-warring players to reach the max level within a year if they keep at it.

Also currently there is no incentive to do Warmaster quests if you don't want to become WM.

[JzJ75]

I would like some more quest dealing with the plot line, to explain the gems, dragons, and why we fight. Also it would be interesting to build up a history of the races, in each realm maybe a couple of quests that are the players race related. Also a little more history of the realms would be awesome.
These type of quest might make the role playing part a little more enjoyable.

[kmdk]

Personally ,i saw game evolving in my vision ,now wee have more vegetation ,and terrain over war zone does not look anymore so empty because of this.

But for me is there still a weak point : missing a story line.

The only story line that wee have is that from lvl 30 up to 39 with pendants.
I will like to see a longer story or at least from lvl 40 to 50 other short story in pendants way and from lvl 50 up to 60 a short story with warmasters subject.

And as i sugested long time a go in chapter way will be nice.
The issue is that story is boring and not keep you excited about what will happen.

You have a great graphical team.
Making a short movies maxim of 20-30 seconds,when you rich certains lvl and point of the game ,will make story more interesting.
This short movies must be story oriented,and make that player to find out what happens next.

1.When you create first time acount and first char to be played a short movie about story of the game.
2.When you chose a certain subclass ,to be played a short movie about your subclass and and the story continue
3.When you rich lvl 50 to be played a short movie about become a warrmaster.

Now quest story lines:
Quest can be synced with movie line or movie line synced with quest line.

At lvl 40 you can add story line in pendats way ,a little more quests (because there is need more xp) here i have no idea about what content shall be addet.

At lvl 50 till lvl 60 is more sample:
A warmaster shall be a veteran of the war ,and in his road to become one, more quests with legendary and epic mobs can be added.
Like this legendary mobs can have a point in actual gameplay.
Rewards from this quests can be scaled to not harm very much booster sales.

[Enitharmon]

I think if the Warmaster quests gave up to 10,000 gold and experience each, levelling after 50 would be greatly eased.

That would be 25,000 extra experience per day, 175,000 XP a week, and a player would be able to complete an entire level in the lower 50s within a month using only the Warmaster quests and no grinding (not counting XP from war). This is still a long time, so it probably wouldn't harm booster sales.

But it would allow even those minimal-grinding, uber-warring players to reach the max level within a year if they keep at it.

Also currently there is no incentive to do Warmaster quests if you don't want to become WM.

I agree with this (and what Swish said about sticking to the strengths of RO). I'd also like to point out that taking the focus away from "grinding" in the higher levels would not necessarily be negative for NGD's bottom line.
At the moment, especially during a server "boost", using a +XP% scroll during larger fort wars is quite effective (i.e. you have to spend alot more time getting the same amount of XP, but at the same time the scroll lasts relatively longer), so I imagine they will still be used, although possibly a little less.
Also less people grinding should increase demand for lucky boxes, repair hammers, ++ (Because where else will these players get their end game gear?) And those items I would think is a more stable and lasting source of income than the boosters which inevitably the player will cease to have a use for.


About improving the storyline, for most people RO is one of those games (like Doom) where the story does not really matter all that much.
In 5 years I have met exactly one person who played mainly for the lore. Most current players don't care too much about this, and to make the story so attractive that new players will flock to the game because of it, would in my opinion require a momentous effort (basically akin to a new game), RO is just not immersive enough as it is. Whoever deeply cared about the lore of this game left a long time ago (case in point: Lamai, event costumes).

New quests would be very nice, but I think - as others have mentioned - that they need to be RvR centric. Although please keep (and refine) the "sandbox"-y form of the warzone, and do not try to force players into one specific mode of playing (like you did with invasions and to a certain extent WM). Sandbox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_world) games are popular for a reason (and cheaper to make than static content). The warzone of RO pre-1.0 was essentially a "sandbox", please make a return towards this concept & you will have a niche for this game.

[Darcyeti]

I would love a better build story line, though I don't know anybody exept me who has red every single questtext ingame ;)

[Quincebo]

I would love a better build story line, though I don't know anybody exept me who has red every single questtext ingame ;)

i did too :)
I always want to do quests and tasks in a game for the storyline

[bunglehaze]

Just wanted to follow up again from this thread, just about at level 45 now and the grinding is indeed tedious. The only thing that breaks the boredom and monoteny is a bit of RvR interlaced in.

I am able to find many more playing hours in a week if needed but honestly, the thought of having to grind for hours in a day to scratch a level down slightly puts me off loading it up. From level 40 you dont get any more quests for a looong time and then I have no doubt at all that 50+ will be a killer.

Don't get me wrong, the game is enjoyable - when it is enjoyable - but the daily grind in order to level is no doubt enough to put people off coming back as regularly. I have even started off with my other chars now and will most likely only level them both to 28-29 before leaving them until after the expansion, such is the anticipation of the boredom ahead otherwise.

[Truewar]

At least place more mobs to locations for grinding...

[Angel_de_Combate]

*bump* Just wondering if the OP was still playing and stuck with it...?

[time-to-die]

sorry, but you want to make grinding even become easier? Grinding is already a joke....