Armor system explained

[Kitsuni]

Hi guys, just here to let you know that we've completed a fairly complete documentation of the armor system.

For anyone who is interested, this information is below. Hopefully NGD won't mind me posting it as this information was gathered through very extensive testing by multiple people over several years and not by reverse-engineering or tampering with the game in any way!

(This was originally a text file, so you need Courier New font for it to be displayed properly.)

++++++++++++++++++++
+++ ARMOR SYSTEM +++
++++++++++++++++++++
This document contains a description of the formulas involved in the reductions of damage by armor.
The results in this document were found by extensive testing by many players.

The armor system implemented in Regnum Online a.k.a Realms Online works on a rather haphazard
fixed damage reduction system, meaning that it always removes a fixed amount from incoming damage
and there are no percentages involved. Any percentages discussed in this document pertain only to
the calculation of armor points (AP), not actual damage reduction.

Armor parts
+++++++++++
Archers and Barbarians: Breastplate, Gauntlets, Helm, Leggings, Pauldrons, Leggings
Knights: Breastplate, Gauntlets, Helm, Leggings, Pauldrons, Leggings, Shield
Mages: Bracelet, Gloves, Hat, Tunic

1) Even though archers and barbs appear to have the same AP, they have different levels of damage
reduction due to class differences. See "Class modifiers" below.
2) The armor bonus from shields is essentially extra. See "Coefficients" below.
3) Bracelets behave exactly as shields for mages.
4) Shields and bracelets cannot be enhanced with armor gems.

Resistances
+++++++++++
For each piece of armor, it contains resistances. These are locally applied to that piece, and
affect how much points it contributes to the overall calculation of AP. For example, an item that
is "Very bad" to "Piercing" has a 60% malus, so it will contribute only 40% of its protection
to the player's defense when they are hit by a "Piercing" attack.

RESISTANCE BONUS OR MALUS
Very bad -60%
Bad -30%
Normal +0%
Good +30%
Very good +60%
Excellent +90% (rarely seen, mostly only on quest items)

Coefficients
++++++++++++
This is the part of the armor system that is most confusing at first. When you equip a 200 AP item,
you don't get 200 AP in the character window, because each armor piece only contributes a certain
amount of individual AP to your overall AP level. In other words, the AP listed on each item
represents the maximum amount of AP that you can get (excluding bonuses) with an entire set of
identical items, not the amount provided by the item itself.

Archers and Warriors
ARMOR PART CONTRIBUTION IMPORTANCE
Breastplate ~23% *****
Gauntlets ~16.9% *
Helm ~21.5% ****
Leggings ~20% ***
Pauldrons ~18.4% **

Mages
ARMOR PART CONTRIBUTION IMPORTANCE
Gloves ~22.6% *
Hat ~28.6% ***
Tunic ~48.7% *****

As was stated earlier, the bonus from shields and bracelets is extra. It is multiplied and added on
to the overall AP after the contribution of the other parts has been calculated.

ARMOR PART BONUS
Bracelet ~26.6%
Shield ~23%

Prescaling
++++++++++
Archers and warriors have a +33% prescaling applied that gives them more AP than a mage even when
equipping items of similar AP. This prescaling also appears in the character window. To put it simply,
the maximum AP for a mage with a full 200 AP set from an NPC is ~200, or 199 exactly, while for an
archer or warrior it is (200 x 133% = 266), or 265 exactly.

(Note: The listed example for mages was created before the introduction of bracelets.)

Item bonus
++++++++++
Any item that the player equips with the stat of either "Armor bonus" or "Protection" increases their
overall AP value (not the AP provided by the item) accordingly. In other words, to equip an item with
an "Armor bonus +5%" stat on it, is like having an extra level of "Caution".

Class modifiers
+++++++++++++++
Everything discussed thus far pertains to the calculation of the characters' overall AP. However, even
once this value is calculated, and is shown in the character window, there is one additional attribute
that comes into play, that affects how much damage the player can resist.

This may seem strange, as mages have the highest class modifier, however extensive testing with fixed
damage spells against armor that is "Normal" to that type has revealed it.

CLASS DAMAGE RESISTANCE
Archer AP x 50%
Mage AP x 60%
Warrior AP x 55%

This means that mages benefit the most from raising their AP, while archers benefit the least.

Damage over time
++++++++++++++++
Periodic damage spells (DoTs, as they are commonly known) only suffer 20% of the normal damage
reduction provided by a player's armor, per interval. The amount of reduction applied to the total
damage of the spell depends on the amount of intervals (ticks) of its duration.

For example, "Lightning" lasts for exactly 5 damage intervals, and (20% x 5 = 100%), thus over time
the total damage of "Lightning" is reduced by the same amount as any other attack.

+++
Last updated Mon 26 Nov 2012

[Rising_Cold]

thank you very very much for posting this

its still confusing but at least im getting the larger picture of AP now :)

[Fetido]

For example, "Lightning" lasts for exactly 5 damage intervals, and (20% x 5 = 100%), thus over time
the total damage of "Lightning" is reduced by the same amount as any other attack.


This is bad, the total amount is reduced 20%.
Lightning(5)=240 per tick, so with -20% we have 204*0.8=192 per tick, and 5 tick the damege is 240*5=1200(without reduce) and 192*5=960(reduced) so the damage was reduced 960/1200=0.8 , 1-0.8=0.2, 20%! no 100%, if was 100% the total damage was 0!,
The reduction is 20% without import the amount of tick. It is an lineal operation.

pd: Sorry for my english

[_Enio_]

shes talking about 100% of the normal reduction.

[_Kharbon_]

Very interesting information, thanks Kitsunie (and all the involved players).

[schachteana]

hello,

that's very interesting indeed! If I may ask some things in special -


1

MAGE: (since mages have no prescaling)
ARMOR PART CONTRIBUTION
Gloves ~22.6%
Hat ~28.6%
Tunic ~48.7%

ARMOR PART BONUS
Bracelet ~26.6%
Example:
Gloves 192+0
Hat 226+0
Tunic 200+0
Bracelet 186+0

Does this mean I have
( 192*0.226 + 226*0.28 + 200*0.487 ) + 186*0.266 = 253.548
Armor points? If yes, why'd you use these braces, in other words, why should you mention shields and bracelets seperated?


2

How do armor points manipulate the inbound damage exactly?
Let's stick to the previous example: I have 253.548 AP (also shown in the character window) now, not having been increased by prescaling.
Let's say, all of my armor parts are "good" versus slashing damage.
So my armor points amount against slashing damage are
253.548*1.30=329.6124, right? (not shown in the character window)
So my AP finally get increased by class modifier:
329.6124*1.60=527,37984, right? (not shown in the character window, too)
If a barbarian with 100% slashing damage deals 1,000 damage to an unequipped me, how much damage will he make now after I put on my equip? How are armor points related to damage reduction?
You seem to know that since this can be the only way you figured out those class modifiers.


3

What about armor bonus points from braces (226+[BONUS])? Why didn't you mention they are being handled in some special way? I found out they do some days ago. You totally omitted that!

Anyways, your work is very much appreciated. Glad finally someone did that :metal:

Thanks so much in advance,
:hat:

[l33t_supa_h4x90r]

By the way, you've double-mentioned leggings on the classes that wear them.

Thanks for the info!

[Kitsuni]

hello,

that's very interesting indeed! If I may ask some things in special -


1

MAGE: (since mages have no prescaling)
Example:
Gloves 192+0
Hat 226+0
Tunic 200+0
Bracelet 186+0

Does this mean I have
( 192*0.226 + 226*0.28 + 200*0.487 ) + 186*0.266 = 253.548
Armor points? If yes, why'd you use these braces, in other words, why should you mention shields and bracelets seperated?


2

How do armor points manipulate the inbound damage exactly?
Let's stick to the previous example: I have 253.548 AP (also shown in the character window) now, not having been increased by prescaling.
Let's say, all of my armor parts are "good" versus slashing damage.
So my armor points amount against slashing damage are
253.548*1.30=329.6124, right? (not shown in the character window)
So my AP finally get increased by class modifier:
329.6124*1.60=527,37984, right? (not shown in the character window, too)
If a barbarian with 100% slashing damage deals 1,000 damage to an unequipped me, how much damage will he make now after I put on my equip? How are armor points related to damage reduction?
You seem to know that since this can be the only way you figured out those class modifiers.


3

What about armor bonus points from braces (226+[BONUS])? Why didn't you mention they are being handled in some special way? I found out they do some days ago. You totally omitted that!

Anyways, your work is very much appreciated. Glad finally someone did that :metal:

Thanks so much in advance,
:hat:
1 - I'm not exactly sure what you mean here.

2 - The damage is reduced by 50/55/60% of the armor points. In other words, if you have 500 armor points, and you are a mage, you resist exactly 500*0.60=300 damage of any attack (assuming that it has a single damage type). Mixed damage types, and mixed resistances on armors make it more complicated. I did explain this in one of the sections of the document, but I guess I didn't explain it well enough. :)

3 - I didn't realize that I forgot to mention this, but you are right. When you see a bonus armor on an item (+amount), it is simply added onto the final AP value of the character. For example, if you have full Warmaster armor (+50 with all pieces), you gain 50 AP in your character window. This amount is not multiplied by buffs such as Caution and Evasive tactics.

You can more easily visualize some of these things on my armor calculator (http://kits.boxedfox.org/armor). It also has source code available.

[schachteana]

1 - I'm not exactly sure what you mean here.
It's ok, I figured it out now - shields and bracelets do not need to be handled in any special way. The only interesting thing is that they finally raise the AP above 100%.

2 - The damage is reduced by 50/55/60% of the armor points. In other words, if you have 500 armor points, and you are a mage, you resist exactly 500*0.60=300 damage of any attack (assuming that it has a single damage type). Mixed damage types, and mixed resistances on armors make it more complicated. I did explain this in one of the sections of the document, but I guess I didn't explain it well enough. :)
ok thanks, got that.
Where did you explain what? oO I'd be really interested in the calculation of different damage types...


3 - I didn't realize that I forgot to mention this, but you are right. When you see a bonus armor on an item (+amount), it is simply added onto the final AP value of the character. For example, if you have full Warmaster armor (+50 with all pieces), you gain 50 AP in your character window. This amount is not multiplied by buffs such as Caution and Evasive tactics.

You can more easily visualize some of these things on my armor calculator (http://kits.boxedfox.org/armor). It also has source code available.
yep ok. (I miss a prompt of the users current armor points on this calculator :< )

I do like your calculator very much!
Thanks for your help, have a nice day,
.

EDIT
I hope you are ok with me spamming throughout your thread... (can you say so? huh. By the way, you will have to excuse my command of english.)
But I fell over another example. Could you be so kind and tell me where I am making any mistakes, please?
Some random barbarian is being equipped with elite armor consistently (you may also click here (http://www.abload.de/img/komischesbildfjkj7.png)for a picture) and has total 7% armor bonus.
He should then have about
( 226 * 1.07 * 1.33 ) + 9+10+10+9+5 = 364.62
armor points, shouldn't he?
Character log says 370. :confused:

[Kitsuni]

...
NGD rounds the fractional values to whole integers at many stages during the calculations.

This can result in an off-by-one error on every possible calculation and eventually they can stack up. The values displayed in character window are also strangely rounded. This is why the armor calculator and the details from this thread cannot ever be 100% accurate, only ~98%.

For the example you gave 364.62 / 370 = 98.54% accuracy.

[Comp]

This is a very nice post and summation Kit...thanks!

[Fetido]

I have a question.
If im a barbarian with a slashing weapon, for example with 1000 of damage total, and i put then a magic gem, or i have a bonus of damage magic having in total 30 magic damage, this magic damage is all reduced for the armor? because the reduction is fixed and the armor is more than 50. so having a little magic damage in warriors is stupid?

Sorry for my english

[_Enio_]

I have a question.
If im a barbarian with a slashing weapon, for example with 1000 of damage total, and i put then a magic gem, or i have a bonus of damage magic having in total 30 magic damage, this magic damage is all reduced for the armor? because the reduction is fixed and the armor is more than 50. so having a little magic damage in warriors is stupid?

Sorry for my english

It is complicated to explain the details so i will just answer the question:

No it will not be completely reduced. Even small amounts of magic damage is good.


Slight Explanation why it isnt bad:
1. The total damage will be calculated against the armor. The amount of reduction the armor does depends on the amounts of damage per type calculated against the respective armor ratings.
2. Increasing the proportion of elemental dmg on your gear is always good, because damage from Strength adapts the damagetypes to the same proportions as found on your gear. THats why you end up with more elemental damage then the amount you added. Part of your Strength damage will become elemental too.

Regards!

[Fetido]

It is complicated to explain the details so i will just answer the question:

No it will not be completely reduced. Even small amounts of magic damage is good.


Slight Explanation why it isnt bad:
1. The total damage will be calculated against the armor. The amount of reduction the armor does depends on the amounts of damage per type calculated against the respective armor ratings.
Yes this I know it

2. Increasing the proportion of elemental dmg on your gear is always good, because damage from Strength adapts the damagetypes to the same proportions as found on your gear. THats why you end up with more elemental damage then the amount you added. Part of your Strength damage will become elemental too.

Regards!
OK, I understand this. I thought that in this form, its a %. But for example the gem's damage isn't considered part of damage of weapons because a skill like Berserker doesnt increment this damage. But a bonus damage is incrementing.

So with damage magic bonus in weapon I consider that it is how you say, but with gem I am not sure, because isn't considered part of damage of weapons

PD: Berkserk increment damage of weapon, no total damage.

Thanks for your answer!

[MxCx]

Kit, awesome post and thanks for all your work in figuring this out! I was trying to explain the armor system to a new friend the other day and did my best, but now I'm bookmarking your post next time someone asks about armor and resists. This post should be sticky'd somewhere, but for now here's a bump.

[Krungle]

I <3 this! Great work! So good rule is to pretect me noggen from floggin'!

[Rudepravda]

2. Increasing the proportion of elemental dmg on your gear is always good, because damage from Strength adapts the damagetypes to the same proportions as found on your gear. THats why you end up with more elemental damage then the amount you added. Part of your Strength damage will become elemental too.

Regards!

Enio are you totally sure about this? I always think that: Strenght/Dexterity damage and the damage you find between parenthesis it's calculated as simple damage, no typed. This is reduced for example by Defensive stance (+25% damage resistance) but not from for example acrobatic or Army of one, and calculated against armor as normal.

Have you tested something like this?

[_Enio_]

Enio are you totally sure about this? I always think that: Strenght/Dexterity damage and the damage you find between parenthesis it's calculated as simple damage, no typed. This is reduced for example by Defensive stance (+25% damage resistance) but not from for example acrobatic or Army of one, and calculated against armor as normal.

Have you tested something like this?

Yes, i am sure and yes, i thoroughly tested and verified this as it surprised me a little too.

I compared DS vs elemental boss rings on steelskin/shieldwall/passives+frenzy with initiation weapons.


Regards

[Fetido]

Yes, i am sure and yes, i thoroughly tested and verified this as it surprised me a little too.

I compared DS vs elemental boss rings on steelskin/shieldwall/passives+frenzy with initiation weapons.


Regards

me too i have tested with initial weapons and gem, after that enio answered me, and yes it´s correct.

[Mehran]

Bump. I would just like people to see this and have an informed mind. Please Mods sticky this for new players wanting to know about calculations.

Also, don't forget Kit's armor calculations page, it helps as well as many other sites with skill points and various information.

Another hand of appreciation towards the testers for this information. Thanks & best Regards!

[Adrian]

Can't sticky this specific thread but could move it to "Questions to the Community" subforum and add it to the "User created guides" thread, if you want to.

[Mehran]

Can't sticky this specific thread but could move it to "Questions to the Community" subforum and add it to the "User created guides" thread, if you want to.

Just feel like it would be beneficial for new players, and yes. The rearrangement to higher grounds would help. Appreciate it Adrian!

As a side-note, I haven't heard the whereabouts of Kailer in quite some time...?

[MxCx]

+1 to the thread being moved up a bit, it's a very useful thread that I've saved, gone back to, and sent new players to in the past.

[Adrian]

As a side-note, I haven't heard the whereabouts of Kailer in quite some time...?

Kailer is just my admin char now. I have other characters that will never disclose to anyone :biggrin:

Well, I moved it and added to the sticky "User created guides".

[Mehran]

Kailer is just my admin char now. I have other characters that will never disclose to anyone :biggrin:

Well, I moved it and added to the sticky "User created guides".

Thanks! And so you're Kailer???? Who I've been looking for, for years??? Can you give me my soul back from Alasthor? Idk if you remember this or not, but I'd greatly appreciate it!

[ufkn]

Kailer is just my admin char now. I have other characters that will never disclose to anyone :biggrin:

Well, I moved it and added to the sticky "User created guides".
author of that thread is kitsuni u wrongly put it as meharan under user created guides link.

[Adrian]

author of that thread is kitsuni u wrongly put it as meharan under user created guides link.

Fixed, thank you.

[godismyjudge]

I don't think it really works, how it is explained. At least not anymore. Or armor system is just bugged at the moment. I did some tests on this.

Attacker is a lvl41 barbarian, attacking a warlock lvl41.

Barbarian is using training sword, with 15-17 slash damage. It has 15% weapon damage bonus from passive and 80 strength. Total (only low part) damage is therefore:

15 * 1.15 + (80-20)*2 = 137.25


This almost matches value shown in character sheet (137).

Warlock had equiped ONLY a tunic. I tried several tunics with different slashing resistances. I used only tunics without any plus resistances in parenthesis.

Here is what I got:


Tunic 1

108 AP, Bad resistance to slash
Resulting total AP 53 (49.1%)
Resulting damage is 107, so 30 resistance
According to kit it should be:
0.6 is resistance modifier for mage
0.7 is bad resist modifier (-30%)
0.487 is tunic part modifier
0.6*0.7*0.487*108 = 22 resistance


Tunic 2

Tunic of the stars
144 AP, Bad to slash
resulting total ap 70 (48.6%)
resulting damage is 97, so 40 damage resistance
kit: 29 resistance


Tunic 3

Dark arch mage tunic
160 AP, Normal to slash
Resulting total AP 69 (43.1%)
Resulting damage is 137! so 0 resistance
kit: 47 resistance


Tunic 4

Viper tunic
168 AP, Very good to slash
Resulting total AP 82 (48.9%)
Resulting damage is 31, so 106 resistance
kit: 79 resistance


Tunic 5

Initiation tunic
16 AP Normal to slash
Resulting total AP 8 (50%)
Resulting damage is 129, so 8 resistance
kit: 5 resistance


Weird stuff
144 AP tunic leads to more AP (+1) than 160 AP tunic
160 AP tunic doesn't reduce slash damage at all! It has normal slash resistance and other tunics reduce it, even with bad slash resist. Even Initiation tunic with 16 AP and normal resist reduce it more!

Conclusion
You can't believe resists that are written on the armor part, description can be actually wrong and real value different. Or the part may be bugged totaly and do nothing, such as Dark arch mage tunic, which just can't be normal to slash.

[Anunnaki]

i think nothing still working from this :fingers:.
It seems NGD mad some change without telling us :¬¬:
U can't even see a difference with very good and very bad armor against a type of dmg.

[godismyjudge]

This time I tested how multiple damages are reduced by armor.

Attacker is warlock, target is barbarian. Barbarian has Ragnar's set equiped.
It is 120 AP a piece. Resists are: normal, good, good, normal, very bad, normal.

I experimentaly found armor's resistances to elements (by attacking with different staves, writing down lowest and highest values, until i reach attack low-high range, than subtracted lowest damage from lowest attack damage):

Fire: 87
Ice: 35
Lightning: 87


Here is my data:

INCOMING 143-152 lightning damage (47-56 + 75 INT)
All parts: 56 - 65 | 87 |
Helm: 122 - 131 **** | 21 | 0.175
Pauldron: 129 - 138 ** | 14 | 0.116666666667
BP: 119 - 128 ***** | 24 | 0.2
Gauntlet: 132 - 141 * | 11 | 0.0916666666667
Legs: 126 - 135 *** | 17 | 0.141666666667

INCOMING 133-143 fire damage (37-47 + 75 INT)
All: 46 - 56 | 87 |
Helm: 112 - 122 | 21 |
Legs: 116 - 126 | 17 |
... it all gives same resistances as in case of lightning damage
... as it should, both are NORMAL

INCOMING 134-143 ice damage (38-47 + 75 INT)
All: 99 - 108 | 35 |
Helm: 126 - 135 | 8 | 0.0666666666667
Pauldron: 129 - 138 | 5 | 0.0416666666667
BP: 124 - 133 | 10 | 0.0833333333333
Gauntlet: 130 - 139 | 4 | 0.0333333333333
Legs: 127 - 136 | 7 | 0.0583333333333


INCOMING STAFF 23-31 LIGHT, BUF +5 LIGHT, +35 FIRE, 75 INT
Damage: 159 - 167
DMG | DMG DISTRIB | DEAL | RESIST |
All: 159 | 23+5L, 35F, 75INT | 77 | 82 |
160 | 24+5L, 35F, 75INT | 78 | 82 |
161 | 25+5L, 35F, 75INT | 79 | 82 |
162 | 26+5L, 35F, 75INT | 80 | 82 |
163 | 27+5L, 35F, 75INT | 81 | 82 |
164 | 28+5L, 35F, 75INT | 82 | 82 |
165 | 29+5L, 35F, 75INT | 83 | 82 |
166 | 30+5L, 35F, 75INT | 84 | 82 | ### 35F = 35L here
167 | 31+5L, 35F, 75INT | 85 | 82 |

### 166 / 2 = 83, 82 / 2 = 41
FIRE 83 | RESIST 41 | 41 / 87 = ~ 0.483
LIGHT 83 | RESIST 41 | 41 / 87 = ~ 0.483

INCOMING STAFF 23-31 LIGHT, BUF +5 LIGHT, +35 ICE, 75 INT
Damage: 159 - 167 (LOW: LIGHT 70.8, ICE 88.5)

DMG | DMG DISTRIB | DEAL | RESIST |
All: 159 | 23+5L, 35I, 75INT | 98 | 61 |
160 | 24+5L, 35I, 75INT | 99 | 61 |
161 | 25+5L, 35I, 75INT | 100 | 61 |
162 | 26+5L, 35I, 75INT | 101 | 61 |
163 | 27+5L, 35I, 75INT | 102 | 61 |
164 | 28+5L, 35I, 75INT | 103 | 61 |
165 | 29+5L, 35I, 75INT | 104 | 61 |
166 | 30+5L, 35I, 75INT | 105 | 61 | ### 35L = 35I here
167 | 31+5L, 35I, 75INT | 106 | 61 |


From previous attack, assume 2 damages will reduce
resistances by half

we have 35 ICE => 17.5
87 LIGHT => 43.5

reduce damage: LIGHT 70.8 - 43.5 = 27.3
ICE 88.5 - 17.5 = 71

this gives us ~98 damage which matches result of a test

conclusion is that all armor resistances get lowered
by amount of damage types of the attack

INCOMING STAFF 23-31 LIGHT, BUF +5 LIGHT, +35 ICE, +35 FIRE, 75 INT
Damage: 194 - 202 (LOW: 56L + 69I + 69F)

All: 194 -> 128 | 66 RESISTED

scale resists by one third (we do 3 damage types)

35 ICE => 11.6666666667
87 LIGHT => 29
87 FIRE => 29

reduce damage: 56L - 29L = 27
69I - 12I = 57
69F - 29F = 40
total: 124

almost a match, probably due to rounding errors

Summary of the data:

As you can see, if your attack damage has only ONE type, it gets reduced by full amount of that damage type resistance
If your attack has TWO damage types, both of these resistances are halved!
If your attack has THREE damage types, only one third of each resistance is used.
The more damage types you have, the lesser is the armor resistance of your target.

But:

Your main attribute is also redistributed into all attack damage types you have, so damage of each of your damage type decreases as you add more damage types.
This distibution seems to be percentage of each damage type present. So 500 fire and 100 ice would put 5/6 of main attribute into fire damage and 1/6 into ice damage.

[Telwe]

So to be clear, resistances are not proportionate to the amounts of damage, only to the number of damage types?

so if u have 300 fire, 100 ice, 100 light damage.... armor resistances are an equal 1/3?

[godismyjudge]

So to be clear, resistances are not proportionate to the amounts of damage, only to the number of damage types?

so if u have 300 fire, 100 ice, 100 light damage.... armor resistances are an equal 1/3?

Exactly, yes. My tests in arena show it. But don't forget that your damage from a main attribute will scale to each damage type by percentage of that damage present.

Example for hunter: you have 120 dexterity, dexterity damage is (120 - 20) * 1 = 100

1) You have 100 slash and 100 pierce damage, 50 dex will become slash, 50 dex will became pierce, You will deal 150 slash and 150 pierce damage. Armor resistances will be divided by 2, because you have 2 damages.

2) Now you have 85 slash, 100 pierce, 9 lightning (replaced DS ring with RoL). Damage from dex will become 44 slash, 51 pierce and 5 lightning. You will do 129 slash, 151 pierce and 14 lighning damage. But you have 3 damages now, so armor resists will be divided by 3.

Now say we have armor with these resists and we calculate the damage

226 AP set, N, VG, N, B, B, N:
| resistance | 1st example | 2nd example
------------------------------------------------------
slash 150 | 150 - 150/2 = 75 | 129 - 150/3 = 79
pierce 240 | 150 - 240/2 = 30 | 151 - 240/3 = 71
blunt 150 | 0 - 150/2 = 0 | 0 - 150/3 = 0
fire 105 | 0 - 105/2 = 0 | 0 - 105/3 = 0
ice 105 | 0 - 105/2 = 0 | 0 - 105/3 = 0
light 150 | 0 - 150/2 = 0 | 14 - 150/3 = 0

You can see that in 2nd example, although your lightning damage was too low, it helped to decrease the other resistances, and you deal more damage than when you had 2 DS rings. (from 105 damage you get 150).

[LawZ]

Exactly, yes. My tests in arena show it. But don't forget that your damage from a main attribute will scale to each damage type by percentage of that damage present.

Example for hunter: you have 120 dexterity, dexterity damage is (120 - 20) * 1 = 100

1) You have 100 slash and 100 pierce damage, 50 dex will become slash, 50 dex will became pierce, You will deal 150 slash and 150 pierce damage. Armor resistances will be divided by 2, because you have 2 damages.

2) Now you have 85 slash, 100 pierce, 9 lightning (replaced DS ring with RoL). Damage from dex will become 44 slash, 51 pierce and 5 lightning. You will do 129 slash, 151 pierce and 14 lighning damage. But you have 3 damages now, so armor resists will be divided by 3.

Now say we have armor with these resists and we calculate the damage

226 AP set, N, VG, N, B, B, N:
| resistance | 1st example | 2nd example
------------------------------------------------------
slash 150 | 150 - 150/2 = 75 | 129 - 150/3 = 79
pierce 240 | 150 - 240/2 = 30 | 151 - 240/3 = 71
blunt 150 | 0 - 150/2 = 0 | 0 - 150/3 = 0
fire 105 | 0 - 105/2 = 0 | 0 - 105/3 = 0
ice 105 | 0 - 105/2 = 0 | 0 - 105/3 = 0
light 150 | 0 - 150/2 = 0 | 14 - 150/3 = 0

You can see that in 2nd example, although your lightning damage was too low, it helped to decrease the other resistances, and you deal more damage than when you had 2 DS rings. (from 105 damage you get 150).

I like your theory and, according to my tests, it seems to be correct.

So, assuming that it is like that, I tried to make a simple excel sheet in order to summarize your conclusions. The final goal is to exploit the "/6" armor division by having all types of damage and simultaneously try to stack specific damage types in order to pass through as much damage as one can.

Of course, there are specific constrains, resulting from specific weapon types etc. For example, bow is always pierce etc.

So, as an example, I used my marks (Haven / Syrtis / Lawz). In the following figure, one can see the character sheet damage calculation, and the min / max distribution according to your theory.

http://s13.postimg.org/si3laj6ev/Example.png

However, in order to move on and exploit the damage type distribution, I need some answers to the following questions:

1. Each bow has an upper bracket damage. Do you know what type of damage this is? At the moment, I assumed that it is "P", i.e. piercing.

2. As you explained, the Dexterity has a multi "M" type of damage. So, according to your theory, I distributed this damage to all types, according to the ratio (sum of each type damage)/(total sum of damage).
The sum is calculated based on the well-known theory found here (http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1779506&postcount=5). This sum also includes any weapon_damage_passives (like specialist and recharged arrows), which are considered universal "U" and are applied to all types uniformly. Can you confirm this please?

If everything goes well, I ll try to think a clever algorithm in order to exploit both the "/6" armor division and the stacking damage into specific types (probably one physical and one elemental), so as to have the maximum delivered damage. I have some questions considering the opponent armor calculation system, but I will express them, after I finalize with the above here.

Thx in advance,

[godismyjudge]

I like your theory and, according to my tests, it seems to be correct.

So, assuming that it is like that, I tried to make a simple excel sheet in order to summarize your conclusions. The final goal is to exploit the "/6" armor division by having all types of damage and simultaneously try to stack specific damage types in order to pass through as much damage as one can.

Of course, there are specific constrains, resulting from specific weapon types etc. For example, bow is always pierce etc.

So, as an example, I used my marks (Haven / Syrtis / Lawz). In the following figure, one can see the character sheet damage calculation, and the min / max distribution according to your theory.

http://s13.postimg.org/si3laj6ev/Example.png

However, in order to move on and exploit the damage type distribution, I need some answers to the following questions:

1. Each bow has an upper bracket damage. Do you know what type of damage this is? At the moment, I assumed that it is "P", i.e. piercing.

2. As you explained, the Dexterity has a multi "M" type of damage. So, according to your theory, I distributed this damage to all types, according to the ratio (sum of each type damage)/(total sum of damage).
The sum is calculated based on the well-known theory found here (http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1779506&postcount=5). This sum also includes any weapon_damage_passives (like specialist and recharged arrows), which are considered universal "U" and are applied to all types uniformly. Can you confirm this please?

If everything goes well, I ll try to think a clever algorithm in order to exploit both the "/6" armor division and the stacking damage into specific types (probably one physical and one elemental), so as to have the maximum delivered damage. I have some questions considering the opponent armor calculation system, but I will express them, after I finalize with the above here.

Thx in advance,

1) Damage in brackets behave exactly like damage from main attribute. It is distributed to all damages by their percentages. This also apply for "Amulet of might" available in alsius' quest. It has "Weapon damage bonus +8". This amulet is not affected by +% weapon damage bonus from powers, its fixed +8.

2) Damages which scale with +% weapon damage powers (Recharged arrow, specialist, dirty fighting, cold blood) are

damage bonus from rings
base damage of weapons
damage bonuses on weapons
damage on arrows
damage bonuses on arrows
damage bonuses on amulets (except mentioned amulet of might)

Damages that don't scale are

Damage at the top of weapons in brackets
Damage from main attribute (dexterity, strength, inteligence)
Weapon damage bonus from amulet of might
Damage bonuses from gems

To calculate your damage

Sum all damages from all items that can scale.
Scale this damage by +% weapon damage bonus.
Add to this all damage bonuses from gems
Call this for example TYPED_DAMAGE
Calculate damage gained from a main attribute (main_attribute - 20) * dmg_per_main_attribute
Add damage bonuses from brackets to damage from main attribute. If you use amulet of might, add its damage bonus to this too.
Call this for example UNTYPED_DAMAGE
Distribute UNTYPED_DAMAGE to TYPED_DAMAGE by percentage of each damage type in TYPED_DAMAGE

Example:

2x DS ring, 15-25 slash damage
Avenger amulet, 6-10 fire damage (alsius amulet)
Bow, 85-120 pierce, +21 damage in bracket, +13 fire damage, +12 lightning gem
Arrows 49-69 slash, +10 blunt damage, +8 ice damage
120 dex



SCALABLE_DAMAGE_LOW
= (2*15 + 49) slash
+ 85 pierce
+ 10 blunt
+ (6+13) fire
+ 8 ice
= 79 slash
+ 85 pierce
+ 10 blunt
+ 19 fire
+ 8 ice
= 201

(+40% recharged arrow,
+10% specialist,
total +50%)

SCALED_DAMAGE_LOW
= 118.5 slash
+ 127.5 pierce
+ 15.0 blunt
+ 28.5 fire
+ 12.0 ice
= 301.5

(+12 light gem)
TYPED_DAMAGE =
= 118.5 slash
+ 127.5 pierce
+ 15.0 blunt
+ 28.5 fire
+ 12.0 ice
+ 12.0 light
= 313.5

(120 dex, +21 from bow in bracket)
UNTYPED_DAMAGE = (120 - 20) * 1.5 + 21
= 171

TYPED_DMG_FACTOR =
= 118.5 / 313.5 slash
+ 127.5 / 313.5 pierce
+ 15.0 / 313.5 blunt
+ 28.5 / 313.5 fire
+ 12.0 / 313.5 ice
+ 12.0 / 313.5 light
= 0.378 slash
+ 0.407 pierce
+ 0.048 blunt
+ 0.091 fire
+ 0.038 ice
+ 0.038 light
= ~1.0

UNTYPED_TO_TYPED =
= 0.378 * 171 slash
+ 0.407 * 171 pierce
+ 0.048 * 171 blunt
+ 0.091 * 171 fire
+ 0.038 * 171 ice
+ 0.038 * 171 light
= 64.638 slash
+ 69.597 pierce
+ 8.208 blunt
+ 15.561 fire
+ 6.498 ice
+ 6.498 light
= ~171

TOTAL = TYPED_DAMAGE + UNTYPED_TO_TYPED
= 118.5 + 64.638 slash
+ 127.5 + 69.597 pierce
+ 15.0 + 8.208 blunt
+ 28.5 + 15.561 fire
+ 12.0 + 6.498 ice
+ 12.0 + 6.498 light
= 484.5

[LawZ]

1) Damage in brackets behave exactly like damage from main attribute. It is distributed to all damages by their percentages. This also apply for "Amulet of might" available in alsius' quest. It has "Weapon damage bonus +8". This amulet is not affected by +% weapon damage bonus from powers, its fixed +8.

Thanks a lot for this remark. I changed my code and have included it as you described.

2) ...

I did exactly the same calculations, so we agree on this part too. Thanks.

Now allow me to post an example of my marks again, in order to raise some new questions.

http://s21.postimg.org/5sb44xf87/Example.png

1. Considering the damage calculation part in the left side of the photo, do you know how exactly are numbers rounded-off? In this example, the minimum part is equal to 649.5, while in character window is 649. It's not a big deal, but it may affect the results on the right side of the photo, where the Damage Dealing Calculation is calculated according to your theory.

2. Considering the armor calculation part in the right side of the photo, I used the theory found here (http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1670326&postcount=1), but without including enhancements or other buffs yet. I think that you used the same theory on your small example in a previous post (here (http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1823442&postcount=32)), so I assume that it is still valid.
The problem here is that I calculated a bit lower Total AP, than the corresponding in the photo. Algorithm gives 363 (also validated with algorithm here (http://kits.boxedfox.org/armor/)), while character sheet gives 366. This was also mentioned to Kitsuni's posts and was explained here (http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1686240&postcount=10) by the round-off errors that occur in several stages of the calculation process. Do you agree on this? I feel that the difference is too high to be explained with this. Is it possible that the Prescaling factor is something different than 133% (for archers & melees)? A value of 135% would lead to much closer results.

3. Finally, combining the two calculation parts, and according to your theory, we move on to the Damage Dealing Calculation, where the number of different damage types is taken into account.
I did some initial tests in arena (with very mixed damage, like the one in photo), and i think that it is quite close to reality. I missed like 2-3 damage, which actually must be resulted from the limited number of hits I made. However, I ll do some more exhaustive tests.

4. Are you totally sure that when the damage is less than (damage_resistance)/(number_of_different_types) (check blunt in this example), it leads to absolute zero? Is it possible to lead to a minimum fixed limit? I think i saw a very old post about this, but cannot find it at the moment :/

If I finalize the above, I ll start exploiting this system in order to find the best combination of damage types to maximize the output damage.

Thanks in advance,

[godismyjudge]

Thanks a lot for this remark. I changed my code and have included it as you described.



I did exactly the same calculations, so we agree on this part too. Thanks.

Now allow me to post an example of my marks again, in order to raise some new questions.

http://s21.postimg.org/5sb44xf87/Example.png

1. Considering the damage calculation part in the left side of the photo, do you know how exactly are numbers rounded-off? In this example, the minimum part is equal to 649.5, while in character window is 649. It's not a big deal, but it may affect the results on the right side of the photo, where the Damage Dealing Calculation is calculated according to your theory.

2. Considering the armor calculation part in the right side of the photo, I used the theory found here (http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1670326&postcount=1), but without including enhancements or other buffs yet. I think that you used the same theory on your small example in a previous post (here (http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1823442&postcount=32)), so I assume that it is still valid.
The problem here is that I calculated a bit lower Total AP, than the corresponding in the photo. Algorithm gives 363 (also validated with algorithm here (http://kits.boxedfox.org/armor/)), while character sheet gives 366. This was also mentioned to Kitsuni's posts and was explained here (http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1686240&postcount=10) by the round-off errors that occur in several stages of the calculation process. Do you agree on this? I feel that the difference is too high to be explained with this. Is it possible that the Prescaling factor is something different than 133% (for archers & melees)? A value of 135% would lead to much closer results.

3. Finally, combining the two calculation parts, and according to your theory, we move on to the Damage Dealing Calculation, where the number of different damage types is taken into account.
I did some initial tests in arena (with very mixed damage, like the one in photo), and i think that it is quite close to reality. I missed like 2-3 damage, which actually must be resulted from the limited number of hits I made. However, I ll do some more exhaustive tests.

4. Are you totally sure that when the damage is less than (damage_resistance)/(number_of_different_types) (check blunt in this example), it leads to absolute zero? Is it possible to lead to a minimum fixed limit? I think i saw a very old post about this, but cannot find it at the moment :/

If I finalize the above, I ll start exploiting this system in order to find the best combination of damage types to maximize the output damage.

Thanks in advance,

1. I can't tell for sure, but based on my test, I think that the value isn't really rounded during the attack, that it is only rounded for view in character sheet. I used a staff with 9 damage range min-max and i have spend good half an hour attacking and I couldn't reach the minimum for few armor parts. This could be explained as the attack value not being 'really' rounded, with rounding after the attack. Or maybe just a bad luck.

2. I found this armor calculation not precise enough too. That is why I determined resists experimentaly in my test. I tried to find these values more precisely, but I got mixed up results. Closest where I got was for warrior/archer with 'prescale' already in, so don't use prescale with these numbers (kits actually uses 1+1/3 in her armor calculator, not 1.33):

class BarbarianArmor(Enum):
HELM = Fraction(34, 120)
PAULDRON = Fraction(30, 120)
BP = Fraction(37, 120)
GAUNTLET = Fraction(27, 120)
LEGS = Fraction(32, 120) # 79/3/100 => 31.6 (26.3%), 80/3/100 => 32 (26.7%), [81/3/100 => 32.4 (27%)]

class BarbarianArmor2(Enum):
HELM = Fraction(39, 136) # 86/3 /100
PAULDRON = Fraction(34, 136) # 75/3 /100 25%
BP = Fraction(42, 136) # 92/3 /100 93/3 /100 31%
GAUNTLET = Fraction(31, 136) # 68/3 /100 => 30.8, 69/3/100 => 31.28 (23%)
LEGS = Fraction(36, 136) # 79/3 /100 => 35.8 (26.3%), 80/3/100 => 36.3 (26.7%)

My test barbarian was too low to wear more high level armor, so you may need more values and from those do some average and determine the values more precisely. It seems that total AP rounding happens only as last step in character sheet, because if you sum all values when you equip each part, it can sometimes lead to off by one than when you equip all at once and look into character sheet.

3. As I said earlier I sometimes couldn't reach the minimum-maximum, only by one value. That leads me to think the value in character sheet is rounded, while real one isn't (or not that much, in terms of float/double precision).

4. I didn't test minimum damage. I believe I saw 5% somewhere. Whether this is per-damage type, or 5% of total, I can't tell. More likely of total damage, after you sum and reduce all damage types, you then compare to 5%. I have experience with my hunter sometimes hitting very low, under 20, so yes, it could be 5% as my min is around 300 (that would make it ~15 minimum).

My brother is currently too busy and have no time for more (time consuming) tests, so I can't continue with these, at least for a while.

One thing worth to mention. In kits calculator, in part where she calculates resistances. She adds the bonus in brackets to all individual damage type armors, then reduces by factor to get a resistance (0.5, 0.55 or 0.60). I believe that this value from brackets should be added after, not before, the resistance is scaled, as in few (but really only few) tests I did with such armor parts, the damage reduction was reduced by full number in brackets compared to armor without such extra armor points. Again I will past part of my unfinished python script, to see what I mean:

def get_resistance(parts, resist_mod, *bufs):
protection = Damage()
protection_extra = 0
for part in parts:
protection_extra += part.ap_extra
part_protection = part.get_protection()
protection.slash += part_protection.slash
protection.pierce += part_protection.pierce
protection.blunt += part_protection.blunt
protection.fire += part_protection.fire
protection.ice += part_protection.ice
protection.light += part_protection.light

# apply bufs here
for buf in bufs:
protection.slash *= 1 + buf
protection.pierce *= 1 + buf
protection.blunt *= 1 + buf
protection.fire *= 1 + buf
protection.ice *= 1 + buf
protection.light *= 1 + buf
# Scale by resistance modifier to get resistances
protection.slash *= resist_mod.value
protection.pierce *= resist_mod.value
protection.blunt *= resist_mod.value
protection.fire *= resist_mod.value
protection.ice *= resist_mod.value
protection.light *= resist_mod.value


# add extra armor points to resistances
protection.slash += protection_extra
protection.pierce += protection_extra
protection.blunt += protection_extra
protection.fire += protection_extra
protection.ice += protection_extra
protection.light += protection_extra

return protection


NOTE: I can't just go without a note: your attack damage needs some nerfing! :-)

[LawZ]

1. I can't tell for sure, but based on my test, I think that the value isn't really rounded during the attack, that it is only rounded for view in character sheet. I used a staff with 9 damage range min-max and i have spend good half an hour attacking and I couldn't reach the minimum for few armor parts. This could be explained as the attack value not being 'really' rounded, with rounding after the attack. Or maybe just a bad luck.

Thank you. I removed all rounded approximations. I guess its better in that way.

2. I found this armor calculation not precise enough too. That is why I determined resists experimentaly in my test. I tried to find these values more precisely, but I got mixed up results. Closest where I got was for warrior/archer with 'prescale' already in, so don't use prescale with these numbers (kits actually uses 1+1/3 in her armor calculator, not 1.33):

class BarbarianArmor(Enum):
HELM = Fraction(34, 120)
PAULDRON = Fraction(30, 120)
BP = Fraction(37, 120)
GAUNTLET = Fraction(27, 120)
LEGS = Fraction(32, 120) # 79/3/100 => 31.6 (26.3%), 80/3/100 => 32 (26.7%), [81/3/100 => 32.4 (27%)]

class BarbarianArmor2(Enum):
HELM = Fraction(39, 136) # 86/3 /100
PAULDRON = Fraction(34, 136) # 75/3 /100 25%
BP = Fraction(42, 136) # 92/3 /100 93/3 /100 31%
GAUNTLET = Fraction(31, 136) # 68/3 /100 => 30.8, 69/3/100 => 31.28 (23%)
LEGS = Fraction(36, 136) # 79/3 /100 => 35.8 (26.3%), 80/3/100 => 36.3 (26.7%)

My test barbarian was too low to wear more high level armor, so you may need more values and from those do some average and determine the values more precisely. It seems that total AP rounding happens only as last step in character sheet, because if you sum all values when you equip each part, it can sometimes lead to off by one than when you equip all at once and look into character sheet.

With your percentages (average values), I get APs closer to character sheet than using Kits' formula. After some really small tweaks, I increased them a bit more and i am even more closer to character sheet. So, I ll leave it here and that's it for now. Thank you for providing me your measured percentages.

4. I didn't test minimum damage. I believe I saw 5% somewhere. Whether this is per-damage type, or 5% of total, I can't tell. More likely of total damage, after you sum and reduce all damage types, you then compare to 5%. I have experience with my hunter sometimes hitting very low, under 20, so yes, it could be 5% as my min is around 300 (that would make it ~15 minimum).

I included the 5% of the total damage as the lowest limit. So at the moment I assume that one or more of damage types can be zero, but the total damage must be at least 5% of the total damage. Not that I really care for this value, but I must be sure that damage types can get to zero and not stop at the 5% of the corresponding damage. According to you, they get to zero.

One thing worth to mention. In kits calculator, in part where she calculates resistances. She adds the bonus in brackets to all individual damage type armors, then reduces by factor to get a resistance (0.5, 0.55 or 0.60). I believe that this value from brackets should be added after, not before, the resistance is scaled, as in few (but really only few) tests I did with such armor parts, the damage reduction was reduced by full number in brackets compared to armor without such extra armor points. Again I will past part of my unfinished python script, to see what I mean:

I got what you mean. I have both versions of this bracket armor, so we ll find out in arena tests.

NOTE: I can't just go without a note: your attack damage needs some nerfing! :-)

What we are trying to do here is to maximize Lawz's damage, not to nerf him! :P

Thank you again for all your comments.

PS. I haven't added armor enhancements and buffs yet. But I am not sure if I ll do it, since what I want to do is to check my damage types on typical armors. I ll think of it a bit more if it is necessary to model them.

[LawZ]

So the situation at the moment is the following:

I did some arena tests (thank you Allerina for your patience!) and I was not really satisfied with my model. Measurements were out (and higher) the expected damage window by approximately 8-10 damage. The positive thing is that the model is on the safe side (at least...).

So, I tried to find where the issue is, and I strongly believe that armor part contribution factors are the main reason. All calculations are very sensitive on these factors...

I believe that both Kitsuni and forum_26m8j65892lz08951823995's factors are a bit off (underestimated), that's why we get less AP than from the corresponding in character sheet. So, in order to get new factors one should wear different armor parts (as single but also combined) in order to calculate the armor part contribution. This is not an easy task since the value on character sheet is rounded, thus the actual value could be everywhere within the rounded window. E.g. for a value of 366, it can be everywhere between 365.5 and 366.4.

The positive in this story is that according to armor calculation theory, these factors are both non-weighted and linear, thus we have a simple linear problem. In order to minimize the error from the rounded effect, the problem must be solved in a least-squares sense, using as much combinations as one can get. Due to lack of time/gold/characters/etc. I actually got 80 combinations (only for archer) and I solved the overdetermined linear non-weighted problem.

So I got the new factors and fine-tuned my model.

Moreover, results confirm that bracket armor should be added after the scaling reduction of protections. So I think that forum_26m8j65892lz08951823995 is right on that.

Results in the following photo are still a bit off, but not that much as in the previous model version. We are now closer and always on the safe side. However, a small change I also did was with the minimum damage threshold. I believe that this 5 % (actually found here (http://regnum.wikia.com/wiki/Armor#Damage_Mitigation)) is applied to each damage type separately. So I changed this also, and in this example I got that threshold in blunt damage for both min and max values.

http://s30.postimg.org/67qpkcmtd/Example.png

As I said in previous posts, I am not willing to create a new armor calculation model, but rather trying to exploit the damage dealing calculation algorithm to maximize my damage. I just posted my thoughts and remarks here for some feedback and, why not, some fresh ideas to fine-tune calculations even more.

I am satisfied with these results, so I guess I ll move on finding the optimized element combination to maximize damage. I ll keep you informed with any other improvement I get or with any interesting results coming from this investigation.

Best,

[oim]

Conclusion: More different dmg types = more damage?

[_Enio_]

Nice finds.

No not really, if your damage is evenly distributed over 1, 2 ...6 damagetypes it will not be more damage. But i.e. if you manage to stack one damage alot and have only small values on all other damage types it could boost your damage well. (If i understood that correct on the quick skim)

[godismyjudge]

Nice finds.

No not really, if your damage is evenly distributed over 1, 2 ...6 damagetypes it will not be more damage. But i.e. if you manage to stack one damage alot and have only small values on all other damage types it could boost your damage well. (If i understood that correct on the quick skim)

This.
ten chars.

[LawZ]

Alo.

Found some time and did some damage tests in arena (thank Allerina for his free time and patience being the dummy).

So, I did 5 tests. In all cases the defender was wearing the WM marks full set, i.e. 235+10 per piece with its fixed well-known resists.

The attacker was wearing the following bows:
Test #1: Fast 25 bow
Test #2: Medium 35 bow
Test #3: Slow 35 bow (New Magna)
Test #4: Initiation bow and arrows with Vesp Amu and 2 Eve Rings
Test #5: Initiation bow and arrows with Vesp Amu and 1 Eve Ring

Results are shown below (Measurement) and are compared to two theories:
Theory #1 is forum_26m8j65892lz0895's theory which can be found here (http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1823066&postcount=30).
Theory #2 is Kitsuni's theory which can be found here (http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1498001&postcount=22).

http://s8.postimg.org/nnw89kfv9/Example.png

In all cases the second theory seems to give more accurate results. So, if this is correct, then the final conclusion is that it's better to equally distribute your damage in all types (probably with preference on elemental cause of generally less buffs on these types) in order to have the maximum chances to exploit enemy's very bad or bad resists on some types. This is valid if we assume that all armor resists are random and exclude from our analysis WM armor which offers fixed resists.
If someone insists that the other theory is more accurate then the conclusion is what Enio said here (http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1824313&postcount=40).

As a side note, I would like to comment the following:
1. For some strange reason the DMG window of Measurement in Test #3 is 29 (it's the magna bow). According to both theories I expected somewhere close to 35. I did many tests (more than 300 hits) but didn't manage to broaden more the window.
2. The negative windows in Tests #4 and #5 of first theory are not an outcome of wrong calculations. Negative windows actually happen cause of the armor division consideration on this damage calculation theory.
3. The rounding used in game is actually a rounddown approach. E.g. 100.4 is 100, and 100.9 is also 100 (not 101).
4. There is a third theory which can be found here (http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1497656&postcount=17) and in one more post I can't find atm... According to this, there is the primary damage type, then the secondary type, etc., each of which has different modifier on the armor reduction. Unfortunately, he/she didn't give any specific values for these modifiers, therefore I didn't manage to reproduce it.

Best,

[LawZ]

The armor calculator made by Kitsuni and Nekoko seems to have got an update to v6.0, check link below. As far as i read here (http://users.boxedfox.org/kitsuni/main/), this would be the last update, since both have stopped playing CoR.

Dunno yet if they have calibrated any of their formulas on this version. We will figure it out as we use their tool.

Armor Calculator v6.0 - Kitsuni & Nekoko (http://users.boxedfox.org/kitsuni/armor/)

Best,

[Ludwig Von Mises]

Nice.. thanks for sharing lawz. :]

[LawZ]

The armor calculator made by Kitsuni and Nekoko seems to have got an update to v6.0, check link below. As far as i read here (http://users.boxedfox.org/kitsuni/main/), this would be the last update, since both have stopped playing CoR.

Dunno yet if they have calibrated any of their formulas on this version. We will figure it out as we use their tool.

Armor Calculator v6.0 - Kitsuni & Nekoko (http://users.boxedfox.org/kitsuni/armor/)

Best,

After using it for some boxed gear in AMUN, I didn't notice any revised formulas on it. The basic armor calculation algorithm is the same as in previous versions.

Best,

[matias_barbaro]

After using it for some boxed gear in AMUN, I didn't notice any revised formulas on it. The basic armor calculation algorithm is the same as in previous versions.

Best,

Both theories are wrong but They were close

Now my tehory :

each type of incoming damage is proportionally reduced by the percentage that such damage have the sum of all damages.
Resistance damage/type in armor is the maximum value reaching this harm reduction

Example:
Armor champion hunter, Very bad, good, bad, bad, Very good, good 235+0 all items

incoming:
400 pierce, 30 fire, 24 light= 454 mixed damage
88.10% , 6.60%, 5.28% = 100% mixed damage =>

reduccion pierce= 204 *88.10%=179.724 resistence pierce damage
reduccion fire=110 *6.60%=7.26 resistence fire damage
reduccion light=204*5.28%=10.77 resistence light damage
=>

400-179+30-7.26+24-10.77=257 incoming damage



resistence pierce in this case 179.724<204 maximun resistance to pierce

204 is the top for this armor to pierce


Testing
testing
t e s t i n g

[LawZ]

Both theories are wrong but They were close

Example:
Armor champion hunter, Very bad, good, bad, bad, Very good, good 235+0 all items

incoming:
400 pierce, 30 fire, 24 light= 454 mixed damage
88.10% , 6.60%, 5.28% = 100% mixed damage =>

reduccion pierce= 204 *88.10%=179.724 resistence pierce damage
reduccion fire=110 *6.60%=7.26 resistence fire damage
reduccion light=204*5.28%=10.77 resistence light damage
=>

400-179+30-7.26+24-10.77=257 incoming damage



resistence pierce in this case 179.724<204 maximun resistance to pierce

204 is the top for this armor to pierce


Testing
testing
t e s t i n g

Do you mind futher elaborating how exactly you calculated these 204, 110 and 204, for pierce, fire and light, respectively?

How are these values related to 235+0 with these specific resists (in your example)?

Thank you,
Dr. LawZ

[matias_barbaro]

Do you mind futher elaborating how exactly you calculated these 204, 110 and 204, for pierce, fire and light, respectively?

How are these values related to 235+0 with these specific resists (in your example)?

Thank you,
Dr. LawZ

http://kits.boxedfox.org/armor

page one, Use this tool for example.

testing in sand steell,

[LawZ]

http://kits.boxedfox.org/armor

page one, Use this tool for example.

testing in sand steell,

You are actually using Kitsuni's method, but probably you haven't realized it yet.

Kitsuni says that Total_damage_dealt = (Character_Sheet_Damage) - Σ[(Damage_Type_Percent)*(Type_Armor_Reduction)]

You said that Total_damage_dealt = Σ[(Damage_Type)-(Damage_Type_Percent)*(Type_Armor_Reduction)]

The above equations are actually identical, because (Character_Sheet_Damage) = Σ[(Damage_Type)]. And the evidence for that is the photo below.

http://s27.postimg.org/wwyf19meb/Photo.png

Best,
Dr. LawZ

PS. "Σ" means Sum.

[matias_barbaro]

You are actually using Kitsuni's method, but probably you haven't realized it yet.

Kitsuni says that Total_damage_dealt = (Character_Sheet_Damage) - Σ[(Damage_Type_Percent)*(Type_Armor_Reduction)]

You said that Total_damage_dealt = Σ[(Damage_Type)-(Damage_Type_Percent)*(Type_Armor_Reduction)]

The above equations are actually identical, because (Character_Sheet_Damage) = Σ[(Damage_Type)]. And the evidence for that is the photo below.

http://s27.postimg.org/wwyf19meb/Photo.png

Best,
Dr. LawZ

PS. "Σ" means Sum.

it is difficult to understand complex paragraphs in English for me.
I speak spanis. I just realized that I never get to understand the theory of katsuny.
by your words it is that I understand now.
but. Are u shure she say: - Σ[(Damage_Type_Percent)* ?

she never showed numbers or formulas or example ... I'm not sure she said - Σ [(Damage_Type_Percent) *

if she says that then
in fact, my theory is the same
I reduce the armor, not the types of damage...

"reduccion pierce= 204 *88.10%=179.724 resistence pierce damage"

204 resistence pierce damage for armor champion hunter (good for pierce)...

[LawZ]

it is difficult to understand complex paragraphs in English for me.
I speak spanis. I just realized that I never get to understand the theory of katsuny.
by your words it is that I understand now.
but. Are u shure she say: - Σ[(Damage_Type_Percent)* ?

she never showed numbers or formulas or example ... I'm not sure she said - Σ [(Damage_Type_Percent) *

if she says that then
in fact, my theory is the same
I reduce the armor, not the types of damage...

"reduccion pierce= 204 *88.10%=179.724 resistence pierce damage"

204 resistence pierce damage for armor champion hunter (good for pierce)...

Yeah, she uses percent of each damage type to reduce the corresponding type of armor. Then she just subtracts the sum of these reductions from the total damage of the opponent.

Her explanation can be found here (http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1498001&postcount=22), although she hasn't placed any numerical example.

Best,
Dr. LawZ

[matias_barbaro]

Yeah, she uses percent of each damage type to reduce the corresponding type of armor. Then she just subtracts the sum of these reductions from the total damage of the opponent.

Her explanation can be found here (http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1498001&postcount=22), although she hasn't placed any numerical example.

Best,
Dr. LawZ

them, I agree

[matias_barbaro]

knowing this,
the best possible scenario would be:

have 2 types of damage:
1- primary damage of your weapon
2- The elemental damage to your enemy which has poor armor

diversify damage more than 2 types is irrelevant.

increase the percentage of elemental damage Vs primary damage, it is what you want.

know your enemy armor is crucial. It helps you to choose from: light, fire or ice.

Another important thing to note is: the archers benefit more having elemental damage.

barbarians have little benefit because of the large percentage of primary damage Vs 5-7% elemental damage. Really it does not affect much.

[LawZ]

knowing this,
the best possible scenario would be:

have 2 types of damage:
1- primary damage of your weapon
2- The elemental damage to your enemy which has poor armor

diversify damage more than 2 types is irrelevant.

increase the percentage of elemental damage Vs primary damage, it is what you want.

know your enemy armor is crucial. It helps you to choose from: light, fire or ice.

Another important thing to note is: the archers benefit more having elemental damage.

barbarians have little benefit because of the large percentage of primary damage Vs 5-7% elemental damage. Really it does not affect much.

Alo.

I ll try to explain it without math because people do not like math (and I am also lazy).

Consider that you have only two types of armor, let's say A and B. Also consider that, for now, we do not have any armor enhancements or buffs. Of course you do not know how good / bad is the armor of the opponent on these two types. The only thing you actually know is that even if the good / bad type comes out randomly, the average resist grade of the opponent armor is "Normal", as is yours too. Actually all armor pieces have a "Normal" average, except old (maybe new too? - I have it on RuleZ but lazy to check at the moment) dragon armor.

Given that the armor average is "Normal", it can be proven (statistically) that in the longterm, i.e. in many different opponents as a total, the best thing you can do is to split your damage in half between A and B. That means 1/2 in both A and B. Now expand the above-mentioned theory in 6 types. So, for now, you have to split it in 1/6 per type of damage.

If we agree up until here, now we have to consider the armor enhancements and buffs. At the time being, the trend in armor enhancements by players is to place slash / pierce enhancements, while for buffs, there is better protection in physical over elemental damage (due to steel skin actually). If you take into account these parameters, then the best thing you can do is to split damage into the 3 elemental types and minimize the physical damage types as much as you can.

If you do all the above you are in a pretty good state, in my opinion. Now if you want to further optimize it, you need to take into account the WM armor that some classes (usually knights, maybe barbs too? - please confirm) use. WM armor has fixed resists, thus it alters the above statement. However, since players usually do not use that armor, you can just ignore this case and keep going with the previous conclusions.

Best,
Dr. LawZ

[Elva Hunter]

knowing this,
the best possible scenario would be:

have 2 types of damage:
1- primary damage of your weapon
2- The elemental damage to your enemy which has poor armor

diversify damage more than 2 types is irrelevant.

increase the percentage of elemental damage Vs primary damage, it is what you want.

know your enemy armor is crucial. It helps you to choose from: light, fire or ice.

Another important thing to note is: the archers benefit more having elemental damage.

barbarians have little benefit because of the large percentage of primary damage Vs 5-7% elemental damage. Really it does not affect much.


I agree with you. Because i already had in mind what laws explained here but this after all, will not work in real combat as it does in the "math" why? simply....

if you have +30 damage of elemental in your bow and split it in 10 fire 10 ice and 10 lighting. and if your enemy own in order, of resists, normal, good, bad. you will make a total damage lower than if you put the entire 30 elemental damage in only 1 kind.

so if you use 30 fire damage, even if the enemy own good resists you will pass through it easier, specially with some debuf, than if you split. look, lets say that the resist "good" mean 25% more protection. will be 30 damage recuced by 25%. which mean that you do 22,5 damage of fire.

Of course if you find an enemy that have the entire armor good or very good to fire you will not be so efficient as would be but look, thats just a single enemy, the best way you build your char is making a general gear which can face usually mostly of the situations. with a focused elemental damage you can do very very well against some enemy armors and still regular against others, but you will never be in a bad situation, unlike you may will if you split your elemental damage beween the 3 ele kinds as Laws.

Also, beyond that, i don't know if is true, but once i saw someone speaking that the damage from your dex is made by the main damage which you have in your char. so, in easy words, this mean, that if you manage to increase your elemental damage in just 1 kind, and this total number, for example, 130 elemental damage, exceeds the total physical/piercing damage which you have, for example 100, then the damage that come from your dex will be elemental and no longer physical.

I don't know if this is true, but is an idea which i enjoy to follow, and that in some cases can explain kinda well why some players can hit so hard. and also explains how umbalanced the acess to damage in the 3 realms is.

For example, if the theory that i said above be true, the only realm that can turn the damage from an archer in pure elemental is Ignis; Alsius could too, but i am counting only the own realm Items.
So look, Ignis have tenax amy +50 fire, daen rings, 2x + 70 fire + daen bow (+32 fire?) idk plus can add +15 fire gem. so look the total (167 fire damage). brother, even if your dex dont become elemental fire with this, you will hit, in anyone, every very hard. thats why vincent valentine and others faggs like ichigo, could easily crit 800-900 on you even if you fully buffed. that's not question of abiliy, is question of be in the right realm and own the right items. why?

simply, if you are a Syrtian "rich", even if you wish so bad, you still can not do what i commented above. because vesper amulet is +50 lightning, and eve rings are 35 ice. just for this you are already in trouble, your damage will be 50- lighting resist from enemy gear and 70- the ice resist from enemy gear. plus, your total of elemental damage will never surpass your physical damage, once that it is splited.

This is other reason of why the wm jewelry helped alot to balance the things between the realms, because now you can choise your damage kind and focus on it.

So, good luck to everyone in making the builds and...Let's farm WMC!!! :D ^^


Kind regards,

Elva Hunter - Elite of Syrtis

:syrtis:

[LawZ]

Alo.

I will try to explain it with a simple example.

Consider that we have 3 types, A, B, and C. The attacker can deal a total of 600 damage, while the defender is Good on A, Normal on B, and Bad on C, in order of course to have a Normal average, i.e. "Good + Normal + Bad = Normal". The damage resistance of these types for a full WM 235+10 archer armor are 255.43, 208.03, and 160.62, respectively. At this point I want to stress out that the above-mentioned values are real and correct, and have been calculated assuming real armor.

In the following figure you can see 4 distributions of the offender's damage. In the Red case he distributed uniformly, while in the remaining 3 cases he just picked one of the types. Results show that the uniform distribution (Red) is equal to picking damage type B (Green), because of the Normal average on armor. Picking A (Blue) yields to lower damage, while picking C (Magenta) to higher one.

The problem of course is that you do not know what the defender's resists are. So what I am saying here is to uniformly distribute it along all types, since this choice will result to the minimum volatility of your damage along different opponents and time. I am not saying that it will be the max you can do! I am just saying that you will have the less dispersion of damage, with minimum max/min damage surprises over time.

http://s21.postimg.org/puybiwsxj/Photo.png

If you think of it really deeply, you will find out that there is no point on this whole discussion actually, since in the very very very longrun and always statistically speaking, you will find opponents with Good or Bad on one type, if you really select this one and only type. But the volatility of damage will be surely larger and more frequent over opponents and time. And this is something I personally do not like.

Best,
Dr. LawZ

PS. I am so happy when we discuss for such things and not for "who has it bigger", as I can see in some other topics.

[_Enio_]

I don't know if this is true, but is an idea which i enjoy to follow, and that in some cases can explain kinda well why some players can hit so hard. and also explains how umbalanced the acess to damage in the 3 realms is.

For example, if the theory that i said above be true,[...]


Its not, dex damage just scales on your dmgtypes distribution from gears (without dex dmg).



So if you have 20% ice dmg and 80% pierce from gears, then 20% of dex dmg will become ice and 80% of dex dmg will become pierce.

Exact:
dex_dmg = 130
gear_ice = 50
gear_pierce = 250
gear_sum = 300

Resulting ice dmg from dex:
(gear_ice/gear_total) * dex_dmg =
(50/300) * 130 = 21.6667 (exact: 21 2/3)


Resulting pierce dmg from dex:
(gear_ice/gear_total) * dex_dmg =
(250/300) * 130 = 108.3333 (exact: 108 1/3)

As you see all 130 dex dmg is distributed to the same proportions of your
gear distribution.

Resulting end damage including dex dmg would then be
(50+21.6667) ice and (250+108.3333) pierce
= 71.6667 ice and 358.3333 pierce

Total is, as expected, 71.6667+358.3333 = 430 = 300+130
Hinted on this here (http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1703795&postcount=13)

Tests were done with mage and archer with very lowlvl items resulting in very low dmg from gear, i.e. total dmg from gear 5-7 pierce and 30 ice on target with and without elemental resistance. So the main added damage on target would come from the high dex dmg which gave clear result on the dmgtype of the dex contribution.
The difference on the target with and without elemental resistance allowed to calculate the proportion of elemental and normal dmg that arrived, which confirmed this theory of scaling of dex dmg on the same proportions of your dmgtype distribution from gears.

Best

[Elva Hunter]

...

Okay then correct me if i be wrong, but accourding with what you said above, if i have 15% ice and 20% fire damage in my gear, and 65% piercing, then following the rule which you explained above, 15% o my dex will become ice, 20% fire and the rest, 65% will be converted into piercing right?.


Therefore, following what you said, still is the best way to focus in only 1 kind of elemental damage, and so, this give foundation for what I raised in the previous post that ignis players can have more elemental damage of the same type than the other players which end up allowing them to hit harder, don't you think? (speaking about old boss gear ).

Kind Regards,

Elva Hunter - Elite of Syrtis.

:syrtis:

[Elva Hunter]

...

Not wanting to be rude bro, but i made a question to . about what he said on the conversion of dexterity into damage.

You posted here about an subject that already been discussed further above.

The question which i made here to _Enio_ is no longer how you will do more damage or not because i know how it works. The question is about the conversion of dexterity in damage and how it works. if you can help with it then please feel free to contribute ^^

Kind Regards,

Elva Hunter - Elite of Syrtis.

:syrtis:

[godismyjudge]

The question is about the conversion of dexterity in damage and how it works.

Damage gained from dexterity gets distributed into all damage types you deal. How much damage into which damage type is converted depends on it's share in your total damage. So if you have 600 damage, 300 is pierce and 300 is ice, and you have 100 damage from dexterity, it will be 50 as pierce and 50 as ice. If you have 600 damage, 300 is pierce, 150 is slash and 150 is ice, dexterity damage will be 50 pierce, 25 slash and 25 ice.

[Elva Hunter]

Damage gained from dexterity gets distributed into all damage types you deal. How much damage into which damage type is converted depends on it's share in your total damage. So if you have 600 damage, 300 is pierce and 300 is ice, and you have 100 damage from dexterity, it will be 50 as pierce and 50 as ice. If you have 600 damage, 300 is pierce, 150 is slash and 150 is ice, dexterity damage will be 50 pierce, 25 slash and 25 ice.

Thank you for the help Godismyjudge but may i ask you something more? in easy numbers, how much % from each damage will be converted?

i understand that the damage from the dex will be Split between the types of damage which we have in the gear. but what i want know in an easy number (easy enough to someone which is not that good in math like me understand xD )

how much % of your damage will be converted? from the piercing, ice etc.

I thank

Kind Regards,

Elva Hunter - Elite of Syrtis

:syrtis: