Idea to balance knight

[Cleison]

Hello everyone playing this fun game deserves further Regnum seeing Adiministradores of NGD. I have a Knight Nv60, Well, the thing is, my battles and in the battles against other drivers Warlock, we have drastic problems, difficulty thinking I would find the best knight exchange for another skill that now suggest.
I thought if the cyclist to win a skill called "hit" Spells and I think most people already know a skill like this in class hunter, the hunter used to return the damage to the opponent, and this capability would be equally just to spells of the long distances that cause damage, and the rider would not be damaged, sometimes rebateria opponent's magic, but of course that would only be after the first attack, and the ability of the hunt, the damage is returned as the driver's skill level, for example:
NV1> 50% returns
NV2> returns 60%
NV3> 70% returns
NV4> 80% Returns
NV5> 90% Returns
And also, if the ability to squeeze most of Warlock mana burn has reduced the time of punishment and also reduces damage in mana to be completely balanced duel vs Death Knight and have other classes too.

Who liked the idea sends the message, it is clear that many who like Warlock not going to like it, but it made me think of improving class in the game.:clapclap:

[Gabburtjuh]

Can someone translate this to english ._.

[Loque]

Please give something like Retaliation to us poor barbs too along with them knights, it has been one of my long standing desire. :p

[Krungle]

This should be in Balance Forum.
I also -1 this.

[Awrath]

Can someone translate this to english ._.

Retal for knights.

Yes, this belongs in the balance section.

As someone who plays knight regularly, I would disagree that this spell is necessary. The benefits of retaliation for knights would be slim if anything, and I'd rather not see spells that promote knarb game play. I personally believe knights are far more useful as a support class and the ability to retaliate spells or damage will be of little benefit unless you happen to be unbuffed without confuse/dizzy/darkness, or you are in a PvP situation.

If the only reason you want it is to reduce the effect of mana burn, ask for a dispel. Balance should not be addressed with one or two spells in mind, but a bigger picture needs to be taken into account.

And, as I say in every balance discussion, balance cannot be achieved without getting rid of shared trees and balancing for individual subclasses. Furthermore, the current armour system needs to be reworked. Until these two things happen, achieving class balance in RvR and PvP is a much harder task.

[Tamui]

I, sometimes wonder how hard is to see that there are sections just for these types of threads. No offence.

I only wish to see that the "tankiest" class doesn't get 1.5k+ hits on Defensive Stance. There are knights who got killed in two hits in defensive stance.

Flame war vs my post in 3...2...1...

[bois]

Of course I agree with Awrath.

In my humble opinion a retaliation type spell is not required. Knights have quite a number of defensive spells at its disposal to use for defence . If you are caught in open space , one versus one against a ranged class such as warlock, you will be at a disadvantage. This cannot be helped.

Now, As usual do agree with the shared tree issue and I have been beating that dead horse for years.

To this discussion though, the issue of armour calculation and especially the reduction of DoTs would be of some importance. The whole calculation of armour reduction needs to be changed from fixed to percentage based. Of that most of us have no doubt.

Lastly , the only item I think Knights lack at the moment is the ability of a very short (maybe 3 seconds), burst movement speed buff like a lunge.

Ever since we lost spring and got it replaced with Intimidate (which oddly is still shared), it is a rather painful thing to be the slowest class and added to that, the only one with a self speed debuff (-25%) no less on a critical spell that reduces crippling CC effects.
Something is surely wrong with that logic for if anything , that spell should be fixed and set to knight only.

Also, It is worth mentioning that Dutch had an idea that I really liked which modified rigorous preparation into quite a useful spell. If he can find it maybe he can post the link.

This is a suggestions forum item I would think.
Regards

[Gabburtjuh]

Which one bois?

http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81744&highlight=gabburtjuh

or

http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84192&highlight=gabburtjuh

[Kyrottimus]

I always liked the concept of "Reflect Magic" in the shields tree. Would function in the same fashion as Retaliation but it would return all magic-based damage/effect to the caster.

[Kvothe]

Knight dont need retaliation, they just need a small speed buff to actually caught somebody, is a kick in the ass be 1/4 hour beating a guy and just when is about to die he runs away and the knight cant do anything but see him disappearing in the horizon.

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

Knight dont need retaliation, they just need a small speed buff to actually caught somebody, is a kick in the ass be 1/4 hour beating a guy and just when is about to die he runs away and the knight can do anything but see him disappearing in the horizon.

Good point. This or something like Spiritual Blow, to finish off almost dead enemy. On the side note Spiritual Blow has too long range with power hit for fast class like barb. IMO if range to be kept it could be something like Throat Cutter.

[Lebeau]

Why not just give spring back to knights via another tree re-work, like the one that took it away. Barbs hit hard, knights tank hard. Sorta' equals out ... & as is, knights can skill no more knocks than a barb (feint/kick/typhoon v kick/rage of the earth/typhoon), so just what was it again really that justified stealing a knight's spring in the 1st fucking place?!:tsk_tsk:Hmmm?...

[Ulti19]

lol xD

Defensive stance! Ao1! Retaliation for knight hyaaaaa

Opponent x --Dmg 2 returned

Good try though :)

[SanguineLamai]

lol xD

Defensive stance! Ao1! Retaliation for knight hyaaaaa

Opponent x --Dmg 2 returned

Good try though :)

Ulti dear, you got Chutzpah. :)


The knight is a support mechanism. I use Challenge and intimidate to chase down a running away foe. I suppose if they gave Intimidate a slightly longer range, it might achieve the effect of "being able to catch a running foe". But retaliation....is sort of silly sounding. I would think maybe a slight increase to defensive tactics (70% instead of 55% or such) would also be good.

But not Retal.

bleh.

[bois]

Challenge to chase down a foe ? Or do you mean to dismount a foe?

Challenge 1 (for example) is not terribly effective if you want to increase your evasive or blocking abilities while chasing an opponent who may be kiting you. Against another level 60 is is not great at all. The high levels of Hit chance that players can get now I suspect has weakened the evasion equations for warriors. I think they need a review.

Problem with intimidate is that it is shared. If it gets a bit more powerful , barbs can then consider adding it to their speed mechanism (even at level 1), thereby breaking things even further.

This is why shared trees is such a bother.

BTW: I think , spiritual blow should be a shared item. By no means will it be overpowered on a Knight. (it is slightly on a barb)

[AxisVirtd]

I think, better variant for knights is absolute self-dispell, removing all negative and positive powers from the caster. It can also work throgh dizzy, darkness, confuse with a %, depending from the level of the skill. So, knight will be able to remove all dots, ccs except freeze and knockdown (or even them0), slow, etc. but he will loose all his buffs too.

Also knights can get (I told about this before) a power for 50% cs debuffing (like tol-tars have). This will rise theur chances in PvPs with spell-based (sub)classes.

[_Enio_]

Knights dont need more defensive capabilities.

They need to become valid targets soaking damage, instead of being mostly ignored or CCd.

Too much constant def. vs all rangers is a reason too.

Give them a spell redirecting all ranged dmg to them he can cast on an ally, but hell - make them more vulnerable too.

[Allforplaying]

Hi everybody.

I dread to think that the knight needs to be more capable of resisting control skills.

[Tamui]

Hi everybody.

I dread to think that the knight needs to be more capable of resisting control skills.

This.

How about a skill that reduce crowd control effects scaling it from 10-25% or 10-50%?
Passive might be a little overpowered though.

[Pwnography]

I would like to see knights given some sort of movement speed skill.

Something like a Passive that gives the knight 2/4/6/8/10% movement speed to the knight for 5(or 10?) seconds after blocking an attack.

[bois]

Dutch was kind enough to give me a link to one of his posts that I really liked:

http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1422851&postcount=1


Change Rigorous preparation into Endure
Duration: toggle, wears off on first hit, 30 sec cd after toggling/wearing off
Mana cost 100-140-180-220-260
Effect: If the knight is hit(evade/resists count to), he gains 5-10-15-20-25% speed for 5 seconds (refreshes on next hit) The spell will toggle off after hitting an enemy/mob.I think that this would be a really interesting spell to get. Numbers could be tweaked but the principle is the most important thing here.

I am not so much for a passive especially as NGD has introduced Legendary gear with modifiers on it. I would like that movement speed boost leggings be available only for Knight. However I think NGD missed the boat on that one too. If I am not mistaken, Barbs can get that stat too.

I do agree with everyone that a burst movement boost is the most important change for knight right now.

[pieceofmeat]

First something has to be done about all the random resist and blocks, especially for knights but other classes as well.

Otherwise i think most suggestion I have seen in this thread are good and could be worth working with.

[Aries202]

Balance Knight in what sense?

I don't want speed, I want to be able to tank properly for myself and allies.

In solo, I must agree it's rather annoying to catch someone kiting. I remember how OP knights were when we had spring, so I don't ever want to see it back.

I'd rather a charge spell, with a reasonable cooldown. It could be the range of Intimidate and it'd teleport you to the enemy and stun then for at least 4 seconds(so it won't be op) Of course this type of thing would be hard for NGD to implement, but it reduces the gap in solo fights.

Now, for RvR my problem is Defensive Support having the speed malice and it being shared with Barbarians. I'd rather see PA instant, as well as Paladin instant. It's annoying to chase someone down to dispell them and/or heal and they both have cast times.

I like what Dutch suggested once, being able to tank for an ally for a little while. I don't understand why we can't we're so ignored in war most of the time, because we're slow.

[Lebeau]

Balance Knight in what sense?

I don't want speed, I want to be able to tank properly for myself and allies.

In solo, I must agree it's rather annoying to catch someone kiting. I remember how OP knights were when we had spring, so I don't ever want to see it back...

...I'd rather see PA instant, as well as Paladin instant. It's annoying to chase someone down to dispell them and/or heal and they both have cast times...Ofc. EVERY knight wants "to tank properly" (keeps going, & going, & going, like the effing energizer bunny), but as is, Ao1 & Def. Stance are just TOO much tbph (it can also be argued that Shield Wall, Stars Shield, Deflecting Barrier & Heroic Presence are also just TOO much); if I were NGD's game balance guru, these knight defenses would be nerfed slightly in effect %, the protection malus on Off. Stance would be lessened from it's current extreme of 95% in compensation, spring would be added to a warrior tree again, & Protect Ally would (& should) be instant &/or have a short range (sorry idk, but wtf skill is "Paladin" btw?)

[rossi]

Retal? No
Speed? For what? Once i catch my enemy he's able to run/escape just with resists.

Knights dont need more defensive capabilities.

They need to become valid targets soaking damage, instead of being mostly ignored or CCd.

Too much constant def. vs all rangers is a reason too.

Thats reasonable.

[Aries202]

Ofc. EVERY knight wants "to tank properly" (keeps going, & going, & going, like the effing energizer bunny), but as is, Ao1 & Def. Stance are just TOO much tbph (it can also be argued that Shield Wall, Stars Shield, Deflecting Barrier & Heroic Presence are also just TOO much); if I were NGD's game balance guru, these knight defenses would be nerfed slightly in effect %, the protection malus on Off. Stance would be lessened from it's current extreme of 95% in compensation, spring would be added to a warrior tree again, & Protect Ally would (& should) be instant &/or have a short range (sorry idk, but wtf skill is "Paladin" btw?)

Yep, so instead of 1k hits I'll be getting hit 2k hits by barbs... Seems good. I'm up for it! :drunk:

[Kenpachi21]

Ofc. EVERY knight wants "to tank properly" (keeps going, & going, & going, like the effing energizer bunny), but as is, Ao1 & Def. Stance are just TOO much tbph (it can also be argued that Shield Wall, Stars Shield, Deflecting Barrier & Heroic Presence are also just TOO much); if I were NGD's game balance guru, these knight defenses would be nerfed slightly in effect %, the protection malus on Off. Stance would be lessened from it's current extreme of 95% in compensation, spring would be added to a warrior tree again, & Protect Ally would (& should) be instant &/or have a short range (sorry idk, but wtf skill is "Paladin" btw?)

Then what be the point of a knight. We dont have to skill those given they are ally spells not self buffs. The point of a knight is to support. I do however like my game style as a paladin does in fact battle, so in a sense I support and fight. Obviously my stlye my opinion not saying its better just its a fun build.

I agree with not having spring but a small speed increase and instant PA. Too many times does a freaking conj run away with confuse and im just barely out of range due to cast time on PA XD.

[_Kharbon_]

@Aries & Kenpachi
Well, the problem is within the mechanics themselves. I see knights being overdefenced as well, but that's because I play archers and mages, which do just very little damage on knights.
The problem that Lebeau has mentioned lies in barbs having too excessive dmg (well, and the armour calculation system), and I rather agree with him.
When a knight buffs, my hunter hits them for less than 20 dmg, even though barb might still do around 1k dmg on them. This difference emphasises the flawed armour system.

[Recoil]

Knights need two abilities: 1) ability to forcefully switch all of the targets aimed at ally to himself 2) ability to switch target of a given enemy from whatever they are targeting to himself.

They should both be instant cast and reasonably cheap.

The fact that knights still (5+years into game development) have no ability like this says a lot about NGD as game designers.

[_Kharbon_]

Knights need two abilities: 1) ability to forcefully switch all of the targets aimed at ally to himself 2) ability to switch target of a given enemy from whatever they are targeting to himself.

They should both be instant cast and reasonably cheap.

The fact that knights still (5+years into game development) have no ability like this says a lot about NGD as game designers.

Decent idea, however it might be easier, if the knight could 'give' the ally part of his own hp, or soak part of the dmg from him. switching the selection of enemy directly would be met with quite a bit of protest, and would be too invasive on the other person

[Lebeau]

Point taken, Gents. I totally agree. Barbs hit TOO hard. !st, I'd am one of those who whole-heartily wants a %-based proportional soak system. Also, hand in hand with my knight recommendations above. I suggest nerfing barbs (& marks) as well, exactly as I have in the past. Both Berserk & Fulminating (& Rech. Arrows & Deadeye) should be 5% per lvl max. (25% at lvl 5), but barbs should acquire in compensation, Spring & UM of 12, not 10, sec. duration, Fulminating duration of 6, not 5, sec. ... & also, if NGD is willing to code it, the use of a minimal-type damage category of 'Thrown Weapons' (rng 10 beginning/15/20) for warriors. These would be inexhaustible, like archer arrows. Whenever selected target is beyond melee range, warrior would automatically attack with thrown instead. (Marks would recieve in compensation an UNnerfing of Rech. Arrows hp & mana-wise & perhaps a slight increase in Deadeye duration or a slight reduction in it's cd). Additionally, ALL classes would now recieve a standard & fixed value of 1.5 (or w/e) extra damage for each point of prime attribute, not the current 1 & 1.5 for some, but 2 for barbs. These aren't all the balances I'd put in place, but are the ones that address the concern of knight's loss of soak v barbs (marks). Nothing is in isolation, it all has to be done together, at same time & in a thought out way taking all into consideration ... otherwise, as wisely pointed out, increased imbalance & unplayability is invariably the result.

[-Aniara-]

M Knights need two abilities: 1) ability to forcefully switch all of the targets aimed at ally to himself 2) ability to switch target of a given enemy from whatever they are targeting to himself.

They should both be instant cast and reasonably cheap.

The fact that knights still (5+years into game development) have no ability like this says a lot about NGD as game designers.

That would give us di barbs with the HP of a tanking knight...might be a really bad sight.

The speed boost should involve mounts;-)

[Recoil]

That would give us di barbs with the HP of a tanking knight...might be a really bad sight.

Not such a bad sight when you consider that those DI barbs would be hitting *your* tanking knights ;)