Priority Fixes

[AariEv]

I write the following with no negativity or attacks toward NGD. I guess this is just what I'd prioritize if I were an NGD developer.

Warning: This is a long thread.

The difference between this thread and others, such as Tamui's suggestion thread, is the scope of information that's being discussed. Other threads deal with an intimidating plethora of topics such as class balance, stability, features, invasion mechanics, premium balance, graphics optimization etc. Though these issues do in fact need to be addressed, most of them don't have high priority in the grand scheme of things. For example, yes, class balance and item balance in this game can use some major improvements, but there are greater issues that plague RO and these things should be addressed first and foremost. What I believe should be focused on primarily is: player retention and NGD's financial profit from RO.

(Some of you may be thinking "financial profit? WTF", but the fact of the matter is that the developers won't fix the massive amount of bugs and issues in this game if they don't have the money to do it. I've only seen one other user discuss this, but his threads and posts have been drowned in a sea of complaints of other suggestions)


Regnum Online's Strengths

...and that is RvR gameplay Some of you like pvping more than war and some of you prefer grinding more than anything... but those things aren't what I interpret RO's main focus to be, sorry. No new feature should ever inhibit or hinder the fragile core RvR gameplay of Regnum Online. We've seen the consequences of breaking this rule when the "capturable saves" feature was implemented and war activity decreased significantly. I also believe this is what players who continue to play the game are experiencing as I type this. The simple fact is that if there is no war, there is no game.

With that being said....


Prerequisites

Team Death Match & Capture the Flag: If this hasn't been disabled yet, it needs to be. Though the concept is nice, it's a population net; it's implemented in a way that limits growth on servers that aren't overflowing with players. Though I read that no one uses TDM anymore, if server activity within lower populated servers manages to increase significantly and TDM became common again, it would once again split the community, decreasing RvR activity, reducing the population once more. Essentially, these instances, implemented as they are currently, are an unintentional population cap that will limit server growth once it reaches a certain point.

Make Premium Items Tradeable: I'll discuss this more below in the "Improving Premium Profit" section.


Improving Player Retention

Player Retention is without a doubt one of the biggest issues within this game and ironically, I don't recall it being addressed by NGD once. Though a revamping of the initiation zones would be nice, it would also be quite task for the handful of developers at NGD. Therefore, instead of focusing on monumental improvements to the PvE in this game, why not make RvR available to lower level players. In other words, level cap island should be a major priority.

During the CoR update, I noticed NGD went through the trouble of developing an entire Santa Claus instance for the christmas event.... Why invest so much time in a map that will only be seen 7 days each year? That time and energy could have instead been invested in developing an instance where lower levels of all realms could enter. I guarantee that a level-capped instance would benefit new players more than a land full of candy canes and a dwarf dressed up to be Santa.

Consider the following (Based on Bois' idea for a "level capped island"):


Create a level 1-37 level capped warzone instance available to players in all realms
In all cities (including noob zone towns), add a teleport to these instance via an NPC or an object (whatever the teleportor is, it has to stick out like a sore thumb; it can't blend in with the rest of the city)
Increase the amount of xp gained per enemy killed in this warzone instance (Prevent rp from being a awarded in this zone)
[Important] Make sure all players entering this instance, especially those that are below level 10, know that they're way below the average level which could lead to them being killed quite easily.
[Important] This instance cannot be created in a fashion similar to that of TDM / CTF. Unlike these two instances which are only opened after a certain amount of players register, allow this level capped instance to be open and available at all times.
Allow drops from killing enemy players.


If the above were to be added into RO, it would drastically improve this game in more ways than one. Not only would it be playing into RO's main strength which is RvR Gameplay, but it would also introduce new players to the action quicker than ever (from the initiation zone). It may also reduce the grinding constipation problem that RA players experience. Also, in a low level warzone, certain buffs (I'm thinking of the enchantments tree among others) will all of a sudden become useful. And ALSO, leveling up in the game no longer has to involve boring repetitive killing of mobs; leveling up can become fun. Furthermore, NGD isn't Blizzard and revamping PvE in RO may take a huge amount of time for a team their size.... but with the addition of war instances for lower levels this way, you may not have to.

Of course there are other ways to accomplish the same goal, but this is how I'd go about doing it


Improving Premium Profit; RO's Economy

Years back I played a game named Shaiya from AeriaGames. This game was horribly pay-to-win; there was practically no way to inflict damage to any premium users without spending tons of money in the item mall. However, Shaiya's auction house and item system caught my attention in that premium items were tradeable and their AH was inter-realm. Unlike RO where players only buy premium items for themselves (and usually once), in this other game "rich players" constantly bought the same premium items over with the intent of selling it to non-premium users and/or the auction house.

The Auction House: RO's auction house is on the verge of becoming something great. When it was first released, many of us were hoping for one that was inter-realm.... but we were disappointed in that AH was exclusive to each realm. What if it weren't, though? Allowing all three realms to trade premium items with each other via the auction house would be a major improvement to the game's economy ESPECIALLY if you allowed magnanite to be used as a currency along with gold. We may start seeing people buying premium for the sole purpose of selling to others = more $$$ for NGD.

Premium Costumes & Outfits: Based on past posts from NGD, I was under the impression that there was an overabundance of artists in the company. From what I've seen, people buy these things like crazy to improve the appearance of their characters, so why not google "fantasy clothing" and then design like crazy?

Low Level Instance & Stat Boosting Items: Yea, some of you aren't going to like this, but I'll put it on the table anyway. In the low level instance I proposed above, stat enhancing items could be added to the mall, but only for that instance (not for the warzone). When I last played, I recall there being stat boosting potions that could be bought with champion coins or whatever you call them. Why not tweak them, put them in the item mall, and make them only for a certain range of levels (ex. max level 45)


Further Suggestions From Users

Typing this in a rush. I would have integrated the responses below that I agreed with in a better way, but no time.

Maybe a small idea about costumes. I think somebody suggested a sort of realm costume for each realm - and I believe people would like this. Another related thing: They keep making new costumes (which is ok) but they could as well use things that are in game already - like realm guard uniforms (why couldn't they be made into a costume? and they're already scaled for various races)

But building on your idea of a level capped warzone (which was originally artec's iirc) which I support fully. I've seen a "Bolstering" system used in many new mmorpg's where players statistics and gear get bumped up to a certain point when entering PvP area's. For example, upon entering this new warzone, players immediately get their level raised to 45 and awarded the necessary power and discipline points. The map would most likely be a smaller version of the actual warzone where players spawn in a safe area, which would act more as a lobby where players would be able to reskill and form teams. Also all players would be equipped with a standard set of gear useable only in this warzone which would be a representation of the gear available at that level which can be slightly adjusted free of charge in the safe zone. This raise in level and gear only exists within this warzone however it will be saved so that next time you decided to enter the warzone you would not have to rework your skills and gear.

Whether or not experience or RP should be earned within these warzones are something that can be further discussed. Also whether or not mobs should appear in these warzones aside from fort guards.

The actual location of the AH is indeed not very appropiate but in my opinion the failure of the action house is primary due to the fact that ppl prefer to sell good items for magnanites instead of gold. Most items (not all) on the AH are worthless. If you want a reasonable item you have to pay with magnanites on Commerce chat.

Conclusion: If you want the AH to succeed you have to do something about the trade with magnanites. One of the solutions could be to appoint an special NPC to sell magnanites for a huge amount of gold to players. That way ppl would put their items in the AH to sell so that they can get the necessary gold to buy mags from the NPC. That's just an idea.


Conclusion

NGD, even though I don't like you as a company for many reasons after dealing with you for several years.... I do in fact love the game I started playing years ago. Even though I no longer play, I don't like seeing the slowly decreasing population of the community that made me stay with RO in the first place.

There is no Champions of Regnum to me; Personally, this name just represents NGD's futile attempts to transform RO into a modern day MMO and screwing themselves in the process. I refuse to acknowledge this update at all.

I miss Regnum Online, though.

[Carn]

Give up Aari, please.

It's hopeless.

[NotScias]

Indeed.

Another full of sense thread that will just take dust like the piles of other ones...

[AariEv]

Give up Aari, please.

It's hopeless.

Haha :D

Yea, it does seem so, doesn't it. What started as me reading various threads turned into the above, so I couldn't help it.

You still playing or do you just visit the forums to view the slow degradation of the community?


Indeed.

Another full of sense thread that will just take dust like the piles of other ones...

Yea, and the worst part is that even though I know it probably won't make a difference, still can't help it. I guess that says a lot about how much I enjoyed this game, huh.

Good to see you're still around though, Scias. Though I doubt actually in the game.

[time-to-die]

Aari i lufyou! have you already became a pokemon trainer?

[fotomay]

I agree with a lot of what Aari is saying. Brief summary of my response :-

1) Yes RvR has to remain focus
2) Yes no real need for TDM (but note this need actually overlaps with the creation of any lower level instance)
3) I am opposed to creating a separate RvR instance for lvls1-39. It splits population and removes the of pvp between lower and higher level players.
4) Player retention at lower levels can be attained by boosting xp grind gain.
5) I support effort put into events like the Santa Claus event because I feel these are needed to shuffle the atmosphere of the game. This is needed by most mmos to retain players' attention. However, it is possible that a better designed warzone with more constant fighting can remove this need for periodic events.

My personal preference to fix all of the above is to have random login to lowest pop realm by all players above lvl 50, and better explanation of how realm tasks now boost xp gain by 75%+. I suspect this will even out realm numbers imbalance and remove loss of players due to the slowness of grinding and uneven battles.

6) I suspect they considered opening AH to interrealm trading but the effect of this on the probability distribution of high powered items was too unpredictable. As it is, I feel OP items are overly concentrated and numerous in the hands of a few players. Opening AH to interrealm trading may make this worse.

7) I strongly support a 500% increase in costumes, emotes and voicesets and the selling of these for xim.

[Zas_]

Aari, nice post and nice to see you trying again around.
I don't expect NGD to do anything though.

[Hopeakettu]

Yet another good thread...maybe we should bump it over and over.

I agree with what Aari wrote. Nothing significant to add, I guess.

Maybe a small idea about costumes. I think somebody suggested a sort of realm costume for each realm - and I believe people would like this. Another related thing: They keep making new costumes (which is ok) but they could as well use things that are in game already - like realm guard uniforms (why couldn't they be made into a costume? and they're already scaled for various races). :hat:

[Shwish]

Improving Player Retention

Player Retention is without a doubt one of the biggest issues within this game and ironically, I don't recall it being addressed by NGD once. Though a revamping of the initiation zones would be nice, it would also be quite task for the handful of developers at NGD. Therefore, instead of focusing on monumental improvements to the PvE in this game, why not make RvR available to lower level players. In other words, level cap island should be a major priority.

During the CoR update, I noticed NGD went through the trouble of developing an entire Santa Claus instance for the christmas event.... Why invest so much time in a map that will only be seen 7 days each year? That time and energy could have instead been invested in developing an instance where lower levels of all realms could enter. I guarantee that a level-capped instance would benefit new players more than a land full of candy canes and a dwarf dressed up to be Santa.

Consider the following:


Create a level 1-37 level capped warzone instance available to players in all realms
In all cities (including noob zone towns), add a teleport to these instance via an NPC or an object (whatever the teleportor is, it has to stick out like a sore thumb; it can't blend in with the rest of the city)
Increase the amount of xp gained per enemy killed in this warzone instance (Prevent rp from being a awarded in this zone)
[Important] Make sure all players entering this instance, especially those that are below level 10, know that they're way below the average level which could lead to them being killed quite easily.
Allow drops from killing enemy players.


If the above were to be added into RO, it would drastically improve this game in more ways than one. Not only would it be playing into RO's main strength which is RvR Gameplay, but it would also introduce new players to the action quicker than ever (from the initiation zone). It may also reduce the grinding constipation problem that RA players experience. Also, in a low level warzone, certain buffs (I'm thinking of the enchantments tree among others) will all of a sudden become useful. And ALSO, leveling up in the game no longer has to involve boring repetitive killing of mobs; leveling up can become fun. Furthermore, NGD isn't Blizzard and revamping PvE in RO may take a huge amount of time for a team their size.... but with the addition of war instances for lower levels this way, you may not have to.

Of course there are other ways to accomplish the same goal, but this is how I'd go about doing it


While I get where you're going with this, I fear the way NGD has decided to program our character statistics limits to the success of this plan. A level 14 character doesn't stand much of a chance against a level 21 player. Armour mitigation not to mention insane resists and evades makes it impossible to overcome even a reasonably small level gap. Also there's the same issue with gear and availability of discipline points and power points.

But building on your idea of a level capped warzone (which was originally artec's iirc) which I support fully. I've seen a "Bolstering" system used in many new mmorpg's where players statistics and gear get bumped up to a certain point when entering PvP area's. For example, upon entering this new warzone, players immediately get their level raised to 45 and awarded the necessary power and discipline points. The map would most likely be a smaller version of the actual warzone where players spawn in a safe area, which would act more as a lobby where players would be able to reskill and form teams. Also all players would be equipped with a standard set of gear useable only in this warzone which would be a representation of the gear available at that level which can be slightly adjusted free of charge in the safe zone. This raise in level and gear only exists within this warzone however it will be saved so that next time you decided to enter the warzone you would not have to rework your skills and gear.

Whether or not experience or RP should be earned within these warzones are something that can be further discussed. Also whether or not mobs should appear in these warzones aside from fort guards.


Improving Premium Profit; RO's Economy

Years back I played a game named Shaiya from AeriaGames. This game was horribly pay-to-win; there was practically no way to inflict damage to any premium users without spending tons of money in the item mall. However, Shaiya's auction house and item system caught my attention in that premium items were tradeable and their AH was inter-realm. Unlike RO where players only buy premium items for themselves (and usually once), in this other game "rich players" constantly bought the same premium items over with the intent of selling it to non-premium users and/or the auction house.


I've had a similar experience with a game called 4story and escaping its P2W scheme was what led me to Regnum in the first place. I don't believe CoR is anywhere close to be as Pay2Win as some of those games and people who complain about premium imbalance really hasn't experience what real premium imbalance is.

[
The Auction House: RO's auction house is on the verge of becoming something great. When it was first released, many of us were hoping for one that was inter-realm.... but we were disappointed in that AH was exclusive to each realm. What if it weren't, though? Allowing all three realms to trade premium items with each other via the auction house would be a major improvement to the game's economy ESPECIALLY if you allowed magnanite to be used as a currency along with gold. We may start seeing people buying premium for the sole purpose of selling to others = more $$$ for NGD.


Allowing manganite and premium items to be traded in the auction house are good ideas however I'm on the fence about allowing trading with other realms via the auction house. I believe the failure of the auction house has to do with its location and the amount of time it takes to travel to and from the auction house and the warzone. Its just too much of a hassle for a level 60. My solution to this problem was to give each realm a teleporter around its central save that takes you to and from your capital making it easy to travel between them and at the same time open a multitude of social windows. However we all know what happens to suggestions on this forum.

[
Premium Costumes & Outfits: Based on past posts from NGD, I was under the impression that there was an overabundance of artists in the company. From what I've seen, people buy these things like crazy to improve the appearance of their characters, so why not google "fantasy clothing" and then design like crazy?


If its not too much to ask, NGD should release at least 2 costumes a month for the sake of keeping additional revenues flowing. They could make it easy for themselves by allowing players to submit ideas of costumes to them via a forum event or something. People would buy these things, I myself am guilty of owning 2-3 of every costume in the game across my characters and there are plenty who have more.

[Groark]

...I believe the failure of the auction house has to do with its location and the amount of time it takes to travel to and from the auction house and the warzone. Its just too much of a hassle for a level 60. My solution to this problem was to give each realm a teleporter around its central save that takes you to and from your capital making it easy to travel between them and at the same time open a multitude of social windows....

The actual location of the AH is indeed not very appropiate but in my opinion the failure of the action house is primary due to the fact that ppl prefer to sell good items for magnanites instead of gold. Most items (not all) on the AH are worthless. If you want a reasonable item you have to pay with magnanites on Commerce chat.

Conclusion: If you want the AH to succeed you have to do something about the trade with magnanites. One of the solutions could be to appoint an special NPC to sell magnanites for a huge amount of gold to players. That way ppl would put their items in the AH to sell so that they can get the necessary gold to buy mags from the NPC. That's just an idea.

[Tamui]

Well, I like it.
Quick question though, about drops from killing an enemy player.

Would that mean dropping their gear or drops a random item which is non-existent in his inventory?

[ShadowForce]

I think threads like this are refreshing, despite the clear unwillingness of our developers to prioritise what actually needs doing with CoR. People are still willing to come up with suggestions and ways to help them as a company both in terms of gameplay, but also financially.

It does anger me that it wouldn't take a genius, or even a lot of time or money in proportion to the profitable gain, to fix CoR. But despite a plethora of suggestions and willing members of the community; change seems somewhat bleak. I have experience in a few mmorpgs and F2P online games and I know that a ridiculous amount of money can be made from them.

Rather than adding ridiculous events to kill zombies and receive clothing, the gameplay bugs and issues should be looked at; missing textures, glitching in rocks & trees, random resists & evades, the lack of a diverse item pool, dragon glitches, getting stuck in rocks... the list goes on.

It may sound VERY controversial, but the biggest mistake NGD has made is providing alot of their premium (Ximerin) content for an infinite amount of time. (For example, once you have purchased a mount, you have that mount forever). This is a big mistake as that makes the revenue stream coming from these items stagnant. Before you say "Hey wait, this means we have to keep paying for items that we used to have forever?"; all items should be proportioanlly reduced in price and come with a time stamp of 3 months (This is used by multi-million-dollar-a-year F2P company NEXON). In doing this NGD will have a more constant source of revenue, rather than a stagnant, backwards business model.

I would happily spend proportionally less money on a xim item like a horse or a piece of clothing knowing that I would need to purchase it again in 3 months; as it would mean I was not wasting my hard-earnt money on a game that isn't going anywhere.

The Ximerin item library should be HUGE, the more items there are to sell, the more money there is to be made.

To sum up:

More revenue = More staff
More staff = More updates
More updates = Better gameplay
Better gameplay = Larger playerbase
Larger playerbase = More revenue
(Repeat Ad Lib.)

If NGD can't understand the above cycle, then there probably isn't any hope.

Please, please, sort out the real problems before launching any more zombie clothing events.

[AariEv]

Okay, time to reply to everything one post at a time. This will be long (especially after reading Fotomay's post)

I agree with a lot of what Aari is saying. Brief summary of my response :-

1) Yes RvR has to remain focus
2) Yes no real need for TDM (but note this need actually overlaps with the creation of any lower level instance)
3) I am opposed to creating a separate RvR instance for lvls1-39. It splits population and removes the of pvp between lower and higher level players.
4) Player retention at lower levels can be attained by boosting xp grind gain.
5) I support effort put into events like the Santa Claus event because I feel these are needed to shuffle the atmosphere of the game. This is needed by most mmos to retain players' attention. However, it is possible that a better designed warzone with more constant fighting can remove this need for periodic events.

My personal preference to fix all of the above is to have random login to lowest pop realm by all players above lvl 50, and better explanation of how realm tasks now boost xp gain by 75%+. I suspect this will even out realm numbers imbalance and remove loss of players due to the slowness of grinding and uneven battles.

6) I suspect they considered opening AH to interrealm trading but the effect of this on the probability distribution of high powered items was too unpredictable. As it is, I feel OP items are overly concentrated and numerous in the hands of a few players. Opening AH to interrealm trading may make this worse.

7) I strongly support a 500% increase in costumes, emotes and voicesets and the selling of these for xim.

When a low level player and a high level player meet in the warzone, it's not called pvp, it's called slaughter.

In order to properly deal damage to a level 60 within the warzone, any given player needs to be level 50 minimum and even at this floor, the difference is still great. Of course, there are some exceptions to the above (conjurers), but to be honest, I don't understand why you would want to fight with a player that's less than 37 unless you enjoy free kills? Last time I checked, a wide majority of players in the warzone are level 38+ so stating that a low level instance will split the population is a major overstatement. Lets compare it to a feature that robs the warzone of 24 players every 15 minutes wherever they are....

And for you to state that need for a low level instance is similar to that of TDM's means that you clearly aren't aware of the massive player retention problem RO has. Or perhaps you don't understand the difference in purpose and function between this proposed feature and TDM:

Level Capped Instance


Created to provide lower level players with an alternative to the repetitive killing of mobs and early experience of the warzone.
Access to this instance is only granted via talking to an NPC within towns in the inner realm.
The level range is 1-37
Open world instance; it's available all the time


TDM / CTF


Created to give players the means to obtain champion coins.
Access to this instance is available from anywhere and everywhere in the map via a random flag icon on the mini compass that most people wouldn't think on clicking
The level range is 1-60
Instance only available after requirements are satisfied



The PvE in this game is lacking. There is no tutorial, nor are there any extraordinary quests. They could invest tons of time and energy into make an elaborate initiation zone and PvE environment that's competitive compared to other MMOs (which with their size could be year(s)) or they could play to the game's strengths (RvR) and get lower level players into the action immediately. If you still don't understand why one of the above is very much needed, then.... oh well.

By the way, "boosting xp grind" is not an adequate solution for new players who come from playing games like Guild Wars and other popular games. It may be a viable solution to some users, but only if they have the tolerance to sit all day killing mobs one at a time by themselves. Furthermore, none of your solutions address the fact that roughly 90%+ of the players who try this game leave before reaching the second initiation zone town. If you were present when "CoR" was released on steam, you'll know that it may in fact be more than 90%.

Realm Imbalance and shuffling players between the three is beyond the scope of my first post, but in no way does it address low level player retention. In actuality, your only proposition for this issue is to focus on exp gain and that's not a solution at all. You'll find some players only enjoy playing the game with their friends and removing that facet of the MMO with realm population shuffling isn't such a good idea. Essentially you'd be killing clans and realm loyalty.... and I think you underestimate how close this community is.

Oh and, you'd prevent AH from reaching it's full potential because of the fear of item distribution? This is an item balance issue, not an AH issue. The reason why players have a high concentration of OP items is because they have tons of xim to spend or because they have good friends who give them stuff. If anything, AH may allow players who don't normally have access to piles of cash to have access to premium quality weapons. As it is, for some classes, in order to function efficiently in the warzone, you pretty much need a specific set of "OP" items. Lastly, having 3 different economies within a low or average populated server is a horrible idea. (self explanatory)

[AariEv]

Aari i lufyou! have you already became a pokemon trainer?

Nope :( Right now I'm a pre-pokemon trainer. I'll become one in 8 years and then I'll be the very best that no one ever was.

Aari, nice post and nice to see you trying again around.
I don't expect NGD to do anything though.

Thanks, anna! Yea, this entire thing might be pointless, but I had to say something. At least now there's an entire thread on these forums with a list of everything that needs to be done (Tamui's thread). So if nothing happens, NGD can't use the "I haven't seen any good threads" excuse that Chilko used.

Well, I like it.
Quick question though, about drops from killing an enemy player.

Would that mean dropping their gear or drops a random item which is non-existent in his inventory?

The latter. I'm not really into that whole steal a player's gear concept. It pissed me off in other games.

Maybe a small idea about costumes. I think somebody suggested a sort of realm costume for each realm - and I believe people would like this. Another related thing: They keep making new costumes (which is ok) but they could as well use things that are in game already - like realm guard uniforms (why couldn't they be made into a costume? and they're already scaled for various races).


Yea, I always wondered why those weren't released. They look nice and will be even better if they were painted. I'd buy for sure.

The actual location of the AH is indeed not very appropiate but in my opinion the failure of the action house is primary due to the fact that ppl prefer to sell good items for magnanites instead of gold. Most items (not all) on the AH are worthless. If you want a reasonable item you have to pay with magnanites on Commerce chat.

Conclusion: If you want the AH to succeed you have to do something about the trade with magnanites. One of the solutions could be to appoint an special NPC to sell magnanites for a huge amount of gold to players. That way ppl would put their items in the AH to sell so that they can get the necessary gold to buy mags from the NPC. That's just an idea.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm going to add the magnanite npc idea to my first thread and give you credit.

[AariEv]

While I get where you're going with this, I fear the way NGD has decided to program our character statistics limits to the success of this plan. A level 14 character doesn't stand much of a chance against a level 21 player. Armour mitigation not to mention insane resists and evades makes it impossible to overcome even a reasonably small level gap. Also there's the same issue with gear and availability of discipline points and power points.


This is very true, but as messed up as it might sound, my personal plan for this zone wasn't for very very low levels to win; I just wanted them to have earlier access to RvR. Furthermore, there can be premium items that temporarily give these low levels the stats of a max level (level 37 in the instance) and that would be a way to profit from the zone. But anyway, if I had it my way, there would be a completely different experience distribution method in this instance, though implementing it may take a lot of work.

Another solution is to give all players within the instance the same stats. That could actually work... hmmm (looks like we both were thinking similarly. I wrote this before reading your next paragraph)

But building on your idea of a level capped warzone (which was originally artec's iirc) which I support fully. I've seen a "Bolstering" system used in many new mmorpg's where players statistics and gear get bumped up to a certain point when entering PvP area's. For example, upon entering this new warzone, players immediately get their level raised to 45 and awarded the necessary power and discipline points. The map would most likely be a smaller version of the actual warzone where players spawn in a safe area, which would act more as a lobby where players would be able to reskill and form teams. Also all players would be equipped with a standard set of gear useable only in this warzone which would be a representation of the gear available at that level which can be slightly adjusted free of charge in the safe zone. This raise in level and gear only exists within this warzone however it will be saved so that next time you decided to enter the warzone you would not have to rework your skills and gear.

Thanks, I completely forgot to mention that my idea was a derivative/fork of what I read from Bois'. I also forgot to give him credit, which is what I intended originally, so I'll do that. As far as everything else mentioned here, I completely agree with all of it. :punk: Will append the first thread and give credit to you as well

Allowing manganite and premium items to be traded in the auction house are good ideas however I'm on the fence about allowing trading with other realms via the auction house. I believe the failure of the auction house has to do with its location and the amount of time it takes to travel to and from the auction house and the warzone. Its just too much of a hassle for a level 60. My solution to this problem was to give each realm a teleporter around its central save that takes you to and from your capital making it easy to travel between them and at the same time open a multitude of social windows. However we all know what happens to suggestions on this forum.

Groark and I share a similar perspective so it would be a waste of time to repeat what he's already typed. But yes, I agree, the auction house should have been placed in a much more convenient area. Personally, I would have put it in towns close to the realm wall such as Raeraia in Syrtis, but that's just me. The teleport from cs to the capital is a nice idea, but honestly, a part of me believes that the Auction Houses were placed so far away from the wz to force more people to buy mounts or teleports to make traveling there easier. Same with Warmaster NPCs in fisgael

[AariEv]

I think threads like this are refreshing, despite the clear unwillingness of our developers to prioritise what actually needs doing with CoR. People are still willing to come up with suggestions and ways to help them as a company both in terms of gameplay, but also financially.

It does anger me that it wouldn't take a genius, or even a lot of time or money in proportion to the profitable gain, to fix CoR. But despite a plethora of suggestions and willing members of the community; change seems somewhat bleak. I have experience in a few mmorpgs and F2P online games and I know that a ridiculous amount of money can be made from them.

Rather than adding ridiculous events to kill zombies and receive clothing, the gameplay bugs and issues should be looked at; missing textures, glitching in rocks & trees, random resists & evades, the lack of a diverse item pool, dragon glitches, getting stuck in rocks... the list goes on.

It may sound VERY controversial, but the biggest mistake NGD has made is providing alot of their premium (Ximerin) content for an infinite amount of time. (For example, once you have purchased a mount, you have that mount forever). This is a big mistake as that makes the revenue stream coming from these items stagnant. Before you say "Hey wait, this means we have to keep paying for items that we used to have forever?"; all items should be proportioanlly reduced in price and come with a time stamp of 3 months (This is used by multi-million-dollar-a-year F2P company NEXON). In doing this NGD will have a more constant source of revenue, rather than a stagnant, backwards business model.

I would happily spend proportionally less money on a xim item like a horse or a piece of clothing knowing that I would need to purchase it again in 3 months; as it would mean I was not wasting my hard-earnt money on a game that isn't going anywhere.

The Ximerin item library should be HUGE, the more items there are to sell, the more money there is to be made.

To sum up:

More revenue = More staff
More staff = More updates
More updates = Better gameplay
Better gameplay = Larger playerbase
Larger playerbase = More revenue
(Repeat Ad Lib.)

If NGD can't understand the above cycle, then there probably isn't any hope.

Please, please, sort out the real problems before launching any more zombie clothing events.

I agree with this more than you know, but yea, it's controversial. Some players maybe wouldn't like it if their life-time mounts all of a sudden become limited time items. Although, one solution would be to keep mounts that were already purchased and make any new mounts purchased limited. In other words, old players retain their lifetime mounts and new players will have buy new mounts every 3 months.

Though from the outside it would seem that improving RO in the ways we discuss wouldn't take a lot of resources, we're ignorant to how the game functions internally. In fact, some users even believe that NGD no longer understands their game completely with the changes of employees across the years. I'd like to believe this is the reason why they don't improve RO this way, and not because they lack common sense.

EDIT: I was going to append part of your post to my original one, but I've reached the character post limit. oops



Anyway, I replied to everyone. Disappearing for another few days to a week.

[jesus2]

I m not even reading the wall of texts cause im lazy or I just dont care about this game anymore Idk :D.Just glad to see you re still around Aasi!! 1 question though, do you still play in syrtis or did u change realm?? Just curious ;)

[84victor]

I m not even reading the wall of texts cause im lazy or I just dont care about this game anymore Idk :D
just reveal your secret grinding char to community ;)

on topic... for low level instances drops should be like coins that can be tradeable for some items or gold at merchants...
cause i don't think it is good idea to give new players feelings that they will drop items from killed players in warzone...
and thanks for your thread... hope it won't be wasted in ngd's papers =\

[fotomay]

When a low level player and a high level player meet in the warzone, it's not called pvp, it's called slaughter.

i guess it's a case of communication and what players seek. Regnum for me has always been a hardcore pvp game. If you are a low level 30 and a 50+ ganks you, then suck it up. PvP is not only just about even combat, its about how you die. So if you are lvl 30 then learn how to best contribute as a level 30. Keep your distance, hit players who are low hp, learn when to best use your spells. I don't feel CoR should nor does focus on a target group beyond this. Trying to accomodate more types of players makes CoR a softie mashy mmo like WoW. Compared to pvp in NWN, CoR is already quite soft.


And for you to state that need for a low level instance is similar to that of TDM's means that you clearly aren't aware of the massive player retention problem RO has.

I thought about the player retention problem, and I think that those who leave in the pre say level 25 leave mainly because of the gfx and type of grind. I dont think giving these guys PvP will make a significant number stay beyond level 25. Getting to level 25 takes 8-10 hours of questing. If they cant get thru that, they have no hope of staying the grind for lvl 25-50.

So I feel the greater numbers are to be saved who get to lvl25-50, and who then get discouraged because they see 1) the realm numbers imbalance in the warzone and 2) the negativity of realm chat, and then leave.

So for me, the biggest population retention is to keep those who leave due to fears for realm numbers imbalance.

I think lvls 25-37 should get straight into warzone, learn to pick their targets (ie: focus on other lvls 25-37), learn to survive and contribute vs lvl 37+ and grind.

For Haven I suspect there are not enough players to put lvls 1-37 into a separate TDM. Maybe when the pop gets to Ra level.

However I do note that TDM of some form could still work. Although I would like lvls 1-37 to be in warzone, I support NGD's endeavour and your proposal to put them into a separate instance, but not in the current form. I guess it is a matter of focus for resource purposes. I feel focussing on realm numbers imbalance is better, but admit that it is possible for TDM lvls 1-37 to work sometime maybe in the future.


The PvE in this game is lacking.

I suspect fixing the PvE is going to cost too much.

This is all, sadly, guesswork with regard to NGD's programming capabilities. Some people say NGD's removal of the original dev team makes it impossible to make changes. Yet NGD has programmed dragons, relics and so on without the dev team.

I tend to feel that programming a random allocation to realm on login is easier to program than revamping fighting mechanics for PvE. (mainly because I've done those login allocation routines before in neverwinter, and they are not too hard). Keep in mind NGD wud still need to adjust for things like quests (my proposed fix for quests, is to only allow random allocation for players who have completed all ordinary quests) and probably items.


By the way, "boosting xp grind" is not an adequate solution for new players who come from playing games like Guild Wars and other popular games.

I don't think we can expect to give players who come to GW2/tera the same level of PvE excitement. What we need to tell them is finish the quests to lvl 25 (8-10 hours) and get into the pvp warzone asap. Then get realm numbers rebalanced automatically on every login.

After those two things are done, and when population rises, it may be possibe to get TDM instances for lvls 1-37 but.. I doubt there will be enough time before Camelot Unchained comes out. So.. whatever it is, work steadily and slowly at it.


Realm Imbalance and shuffling players between the three is beyond the scope of my first post, but in no way does it address low level player retention.

As stated above, I suspect CoR cannot retain players who leave within the 1st 5 levels, even if they introduce PvP for 1-37. I stated above its because of the nature of the grind. But now also, because even within lvl 1-37, u will get lvl 37s ganking lvls 5-10 anyway.


You'll find some players only enjoy playing the game with their friends .... and I think you underestimate how close this community is.

I am strongly opposed to any mmo encouraging ties between friends beyond simple clans because I think encouraging players to only play together creates population volatility. When players come and go, they then do so in big lumpy groups.

We saw this in neverwinter servers. So what we did was to teach players early in our server to enjoy the server with its shifting population. Players then played for the game, and not for each individual realm.

CoR is unique in being able to offer players a brand new RvR game which will, even if CoR does not do it, become the mainstay of RvR pvp formats for decades. That format, which is much like a soccer or tennis game format, requires evenly numbered teams first of all.


Oh and, you'd prevent AH from reaching it's full potential because of the fear of item distribution?

I think AH is a fun and non-essential idea, and does not contribute a great deal to RvR PvP. My personal preference is to have everyone pick from the same set of armoury items and then let pvpers do their best to figure out each others weaknesses from there. I also support time limiting of all boss items (like draconic).

I believe the AH and Diabloe-style random item drops results in and perpetuates overpowered builds like Luke, maybe Tigerirous (?not sure, i think he just plays well using conjus) or other possible OP builds. Nothing against these guys, but reading the basic game chat - a great many players become discouraged and leave the game when they repeatedly encounter such builds.

Remove these builds by time limiting boss items. I believe they are a major cause of population loss and are a major obstacle to population growth. You may lose some players who vocally demand them, but frankly, in neverwinter we found them to be a vocal minority. By personality+nature such players tend to be somewhat loud (nothing against them, in the end they always came back to fight without their items anyway).

[Linuxmage]

I tend to feel that programming a random allocation to realm on login is easier to program than revamping fighting mechanics for PvE. (mainly because I've done those login allocation routines before in neverwinter, and they are not too hard).

....

We saw this in neverwinter servers. So what we did was to teach players early in our server to enjoy the server with its shifting population. Players then played for the game, and not for each individual realm.


Are you an ex-neverwinter dev or something?

[fotomay]

Are you an ex-neverwinter dev or something?

i used to program in the toolset for mods. I'm not very good, but have a fairly good idea of what's involved. i have my own server modules for nwn.

i suspect, the neverwinter toolset and the Visual Basic language used for it, is somewhat similar to the structure of 3D engine SDKs used for mmos after Neverwinter. (similar problems etc).

[Lebeau]

No need to steal a player's hard won (even if undeserved) boss items. Simply make ALL jewelry in the game add their damage additions AFTER all the %-based skill & item calculations are already done. This would not only balance the use of such ubergear gamewise, it would fairly balance it in relation between the classes (boss ammy's & boss damage rings currently benefit archers/barbs far more than mages/knights due to more %-based damage boost spells available). This simple change would mean no one would generate more than the top base of 118 extra points of damage to any attack boosted by using an ammy & 2 rings ... I believe we can all accept that, right?

[Rising_Cold]

its nice to see a thread like this its very informing and NGD could get some great ideas with it

lets hope they'll be able to use all this, I wanna see the day the international server kicks
the spanish server's ass :p

[bois]

If you are a low level 30 and a 50+ ganks you, then suck it up. PvP is not only just about even combat, its about how you die. So if you are lvl 30 then learn how to best contribute as a level 30. Keep your distance, hit players who are low hp, learn when to best use your spells. I don't feel CoR should nor does focus on a target group beyond this. Trying to accomodate more types of players makes CoR a softie mashy mmo like WoW. Compared to pvp in NWN, CoR is already quite soft.

First question. Are you Krungle? No seriously.
Second question. Do you or have you actually played this game ?
Third question. Did you really observe the culture and character of the game before placing a comment or you just made some random dribble from experiences gained elsewhere ?

I would agree with you if the cap was level 50. I played then, maybe what you said could work in that environment. Not now. Barb, marks even knight will 2 hit a level 25. There IS NO WAY YOU CAN STAND BACK and contribute vs MAX RANGE UBER MARKS. Neither a top speed DI barb.
What you write is complete rubbish.
CoR will never be a mashy MMO. In reality what the game needs is population. You get that in a game like this from a casual user base which props the hare core, core player. You assertion is towards hard core PK gaming which is a niche group. It needs to be a bit soft because it needs the casual player so that it can get revenue. Hard core is for established studios with huge budget and able to withstand revenue shocks from mistakes. Also, such games have the population to withstand such shocks. NGD has neither.


I thought about the player retention problem, and I think that those who leave in the pre say level 25 leave mainly because of the gfx and type of grind. I dont think giving these guys PvP will make a significant number stay beyond level 25. Getting to level 25 takes 8-10 hours of questing. If they cant get thru that, they have no hope of staying the grind for lvl 25-50.

I'll try to explain this slowly. The game is PVP/RVR based. This is how it is marketed, this is why players come. Not for mindless ,boring, soul stripping PvE that lacks in every department. This is what new players face. The reality is many quit after lvl 10. It is not because of graphics. I think the chances they will stay because they got a taste of what the end content is like is very high. Besides, the persistent worlds ( I don't like to call those instances) should be broken into 2 sections. There is no way that instances will deplete the real warzone even if those instances overlap to say level 49. In any case, it is an instance and can be shut down or available in a modular way to suit the conditions of the server. Again, what you write is rubbish. This game should be experience gain by RvR in the main and PvE to a much lesser extent. NGD sucks at PvE.

So I feel the greater numbers are to be saved who get to lvl25-50, and who then get discouraged because they see 1) the realm numbers imbalance in the warzone and 2) the negativity of realm chat, and then leave.

/facepalm. I wanted realm chat gone but many want it. Probably because the game is filled with trolls and it is the perfect medium for them. Warzone imbalance is due to LOW POPULATION. Fix that fix the game. Sort of.

So for me, the biggest population retention is to keep those who leave due to fears for realm numbers imbalance.

Most new players are unaware of this except that realm chat is poisoning them. Your assertion lacks common sense. If you want to retain them, remove realm chat and have a unified low level warzone which mashes the population of all three realm together in one area. This then give the appearance of a lively server. Meh.

I think lvls 25-37 should get straight into warzone, learn to pick their targets (ie: focus on other lvls 25-37), learn to survive and contribute vs lvl 37+ and grind.

Bullshit. You can't learn to survive when you do 10 damage hits and your opponent's armour isn't even scratched. They out armour you , out gun you and out do you in every way. One (good) barb an a conjurer can take out 8 level 37 players. No problem. You can't "learn to survive" when 400+ hit come from the horizon from marks. You can't even run away.

For Haven I suspect there are not enough players to put lvls 1-37 into a separate TDM. Maybe when the pop gets to Ra level.

Combine these from all three realms and I suspect you get more that you get in the "real " warzone. It is more fun too because the playing field is a bit more level and not a slaughter house. I assume you haven't taken rage-quits into account.


I suspect fixing the PvE is going to cost too much.
Is it? Really? The point is that NGD doesn't listen, they know all and well you see the results of that. PvE development is not about the WOW effect but rather simple, small, incremental changes in the core elements like rewards, quests and so on. Instead they went with eye candy. That obviously has a shelf life of 1 week. After that , players don't "see " it.

This is all, sadly, guesswork with regard to NGD's programming capabilities. Some people say NGD's removal of the original dev team makes it impossible to make changes. Yet NGD has programmed dragons, relics and so on without the dev team.

The devs can program. What the seem not to know is the original core code. I am sure they can touch it but they rather not risk breaking everything in that process.

I tend to feel that programming a random allocation to realm on login is easier to program than revamping fighting mechanics for PvE. (mainly because I've done those login allocation routines before in neverwinter, and they are not too hard). Keep in mind NGD wud still need to adjust for things like quests (my proposed fix for quests, is to only allow random allocation for players who have completed all ordinary quests) and probably items.

Won't work. All they need to do is to push PvE to the back burner as the main XP gain. Push RvR / PvP as a bigger contributor. Sell premium to reflect this.


I don't think we can expect to give players who come to GW2/tera the same level of PvE excitement. What we need to tell them is finish the quests to lvl 25 (8-10 hours) and get into the pvp warzone asap. Then get realm numbers rebalanced automatically on every login.
NGD should NOT try to compete with GW2. Sell RvR. At every stage of the game.

After those two things are done, and when population rises, it may be possibe to get TDM instances for lvls 1-37 but.. I doubt there will be enough time before Camelot Unchained comes out. So.. whatever it is, work steadily and slowly at it.

Populations may rise in NGD's sympathetic home base (latin America). In the International arena, the game lacks enough polish to compete right now. Even its première feature lack meat on its bones.

I am strongly opposed to any mmo encouraging ties between friends beyond simple clans because I think encouraging players to only play together creates population volatility. When players come and go, they then do so in big lumpy groups.

Understand the history and character of this game. the ONLY reason is it is still viable is because of the community and the way it is structured. Remove that underpin, might as well start looking for a new game as this one will be dead in the water. The community and structure is literally the only thing that has held this Frankenstein of a game together.

I think AH is a fun and non-essential idea, and does not contribute a great deal to RvR PvP. My personal preference is to have everyone pick from the same set of armoury items and then let pvpers do their best to figure out each others weaknesses from there. I also support time limiting of all boss items (like draconic).

AH is a failed idea because of the way it was implemented. Also, the cap on gold is too high. In addition, the trade in magnanite has totally destroyed the economic system ( there barely was one to start) much as I had predicted. It is needed as a gold sink and a redistribution method which did not exist before. NGD just muffed it that is all.

I believe the AH and Diabloe-style random item drops results in and perpetuates overpowered builds like Luke, maybe Tigerirous (?not sure, i think he just plays well using conjus) or other possible OP builds. Nothing against these guys, but reading the basic game chat - a great many players become discouraged and leave the game when they repeatedly encounter such builds.

Wrong. It is the way NGD designed the stacks of damage modifiers and the way they implemented range, armour enhancers and most importantly the gem sockets and how they can be placed. Add the fact of the legendary items with a ridiculous amount of strong modifiers + gem engraving even to the point of off hand weapons and you begin to see the point. let us not forget the glut of 20 extra PP to make things even more ridiculous. Lucky Luke is not the problem. He is a symptom of the failure of balance by NGD. He simply used what was available to him. Others do the same.

Remove these builds by time limiting boss items. I believe they are a major cause of population loss and are a major obstacle to population growth. You may lose some players who vocally demand them, but frankly, in neverwinter we found them to be a vocal minority. By personality+nature such players tend to be somewhat loud (nothing against them, in the end they always came back to fight without their items anyway).

No. Simply level cap the offending boss items so that level 60's will not be able to access some of the most powerful items and stack damages further. Offer them new, exotic but not necessarily more powerful items.

Offer time limited minimal boosts. These would be rated as consumables.

I retired and you guys let so much bullshit in one post walk unscathed? Damn.

[AariEv]

I m not even reading the wall of texts cause im lazy or I just dont care about this game anymore Idk .Just glad to see you re still around Aasi!! 1 question though, do you still play in syrtis or did u change realm?? Just curious

To be honest, I'm not even playing. I'm starting college in a month and to save some extra money I'm living with family..... which means no internet. The only way I get internet is if I go to a public area like McDonalds where the wifi is free. Either way, because of school I'm retired. (Still Syrtis though). Anyway, you were the last person I thought would still be here. Can't let go?

...

Couldn't have said it better myself. Although our opinions do slightly diverge at a few points, this is basically what I would have responded with. You saved me from writing another essay.


I retired and you guys let so much bullshit in one post walk unscathed? Damn.

Eh, not unscathed. I can't check this as often as I would like to. I'm surprised no one else jumped in though.

I am strongly opposed to any mmo encouraging ties between friends beyond simple clans because I think encouraging players to only play together creates population volatility. When players come and go, they then do so in big lumpy groups.

We saw this in neverwinter servers. So what we did was to teach players early in our server to enjoy the server with its shifting population. Players then played for the game, and not for each individual realm.

CoR is unique in being able to offer players a brand new RvR game which will, even if CoR does not do it, become the mainstay of RvR pvp formats for decades. That format, which is much like a soccer or tennis game format, requires evenly numbered teams first of all.

Bois already answered most of your post and so it would be a waste of time and effort to just repeat what he wrote in my own words. However, I don't think I explained myself enough when I said that "I think you underestimate how close this community is".

Simply put, this community is what keeps this game alive. I myself wouldn't have stayed if I hadn't met certain players in this game and (continued to enjoy the game with them for years). Seriously, look at the "join date" of the users who post on these forums regularly; the english community is kept alive by old players who refuse to let go of Regnum Online. This is something I don't think you, nor NGD for that matter, understands entirely. Sure, your realm shuffling idea does perhaps address population, but at what cost? You'd be wiping out a great deal of players who only stay to enjoy the game with their friends.... and from what I've seen, that's the majority of the long term players still on RO.

If this idea were taken into consideration at the start of RO, who knows, it may have been a great concept in game.... but at this point in RO, your idea may be the ultimate cock that fucks this game in the ass.

(and we've already had plenty of that when CoR was released. I would be sad to see NGD screw themselves even more)


Anyway, who knows. It's quite possible that this idea of yours may be a great one. Though I personally choose to remain loyal to one realm and the people I play with, realm shuffling can address realm balance and take the game into a new direction. However, this is all hypothetical and the end result can be disastrous. Based on other posts you've made on this forum, you predict that the community will adjust to being in different realms. Contrary to your beliefs and knowing how cliquish this English community actually is, I beg to differ; I think it will lead to the departure of many players. The question is: Is this a risk that should be taken?

[fotomay]

Barb, marks even knight will 2 hit a level 25. There IS NO WAY YOU CAN STAND BACK and contribute vs MAX RANGE UBER MARKS.

actually for lvl25-30 what i say is for them to start very very slowly in warzone. they should spectate from far away int he back. this is a good way for them to get incentive to level up. so, I would not expect them to contribute vs a lvl 50, but i can hope for them to encounter other lvl 25-30s and fight them.

In reality what the game needs is population.... You assertion is towards hard core PK gaming which is a niche group. It needs to be a bit soft because it needs the casual player so that it can get revenue.

this quantity is still an unknown. My personal belief is that RvR pvp may never be a large part of the market. In NWN, pure pvpers were only about 5% of the total playerbase. You may be right that it may be better to have a softer pvp/mixed environment -- this is why in my posts, i leave open the possibility of making a lower level TDM bracket work. (though I prefer priority to be put on realm numbers rebalance first).


/facepalm. I wanted realm chat gone but many want it. Probably because the game is filled with trolls and it is the perfect medium for them. Warzone imbalance is due to LOW POPULATION.

Well in Ra boosting the population may have solved realm imbalance because I have heard it may be less of a concern there. But I still see many players in Haven discouraged and just logging out whenever clear imbalance is apparent. I feel these players can be encouraged to stay with some realm rebalance option: kidnapping, or a random allocation on login.

I feel realm chat, despite some negativity, helps the community more than hampers it. Having a quiet realm chat in warzone, while atmospheric, means new players never hear about the wz action early on.

You mentioned creating a lower lvl wz instance and removing realm chat. I feel a lower lvl instance can work, but not in the present form. But i still feel realm numbers rebalance in the open warzone will still be needed even with a lower level instance.

Actually I am opposed to random or matched teams instances for an instance or warzone, and prefer random allocation on login.


Bullshit. You can't learn to survive when you do 10 damage hits and your opponent's armour isn't even scratched.

Re: ability of level 25-30s to survive. As mentioned above, I do not expect them to kill or damage lvl 50s. I feel lvl 25+ should be encouraged to enter the warzone and participate very slowly, learn to spectate and pick their targets (preferably other lvl25-30s) very very carefully. Once they hear and see the wz battles, and it is in a balanced numbers format, i suspect they will love the game and stay.

Combine these from all three realms and I suspect you get more that you get in the "real " warzone.

Re: Whether combining lvl 1-37 from all realms will be enough for a lower level instance. I think you could be right (as I said I don't exclude that a loer level TDM can work), but im inclined to believe just introducing realm numbers rebalance will be a faster way to keep their attention.

To make TDM work, I suspect you need quite a feq more maps and more items. To do realm numbers random login, you wud need :-
1) Code to do the random allocation on login (not too hard)
2) Only allow players level 50+ who have completed all quests to participate in the login ( many players may voluntarily opt out, but im inclined to believe quite a few will opt in).
3) Tweaking of warmaster quests to match up.

Is it? Really? The point is that NGD doesn't listen, they know all and well you see the results of that. PvE development is not about the WOW effect but rather simple, small, incremental changes in the core elements like rewards, quests and so on.

Re: Whether improving PvE will cost too much. Darnit Bois, i can't remember precisely what you were recommending for PvE improvements. Small incremental changes -- maybe u r advocating for better quest lines and rewards. I'm just not sure this will be of sufficient improvement.

When players complain about boring PvE, I think they mainly want stuff like Tera action combat? (I guess this is why I think it wont make a difference). Maybe I'm wrong on that point?

The devs can program. What the seem not to know is the original core code. I am sure they can touch it but they rather not risk breaking everything in that process.

i see. yeah. let's hope they wake up in time but.. if they are so wary of touching it, then as programmers i guess they feel they are not up for it. it's then still a case of not knowing what they are confident of doing.

Won't work. All they need to do is to push PvE to the back burner as the main XP gain. Push RvR / PvP as a bigger contributor. Sell premium to reflect this.

I thin the approach I described could work. Introduce random allocation on login for players are lvl 50+ and who have completed all quests. Maybe like you suggested, they can pay a premium to get the status for random allocation.

It's only my personal opinion, but i think a large amount of time in game is spent with perhaps 50% of the server population rampaging as a single realm zerg, and driving away the other 50% to stay logged out. Whereas I feel everyone should be fighting all the time, more often.

In the International arena, the game lacks enough polish to compete right now.

Yes, I also feel polish is lacking. Archage is almost here and has RvR, CU and so on will be polished titles. Anyway, I've been pointing out that sooner or later NGD will need to revamp the entire engine, and probably need to prove now that they are worth a kickstarter further down the track.

Understand the history and character of this game. the ONLY reason is it is still viable is because of the community...

I've been stating that a change like random allocation on login should only proceed on a test server basis. I also feel that if done, it should be promoted as a major advance in the mmo industry space. No other pvp mmo does this on an open PvP basis. Yet I suspect it will reduce zerginess and attract many new players.

Wrong. It is the way NGD designed the stacks of damage modifiers ... Lucky Luke is not the problem. He is a symptom of the failure of balance by NGD.

Re: That Diablo style random loot eventually results in OP items and builds. I believe I am still correct on this point. No matter how you design the damage modifiers or enhancements, eventually all the high powered loot will end up in the hands of a few players. What we found in neverwinter pvp is that items should not be designed to be random nor should OP items be permitted to end up in the hands of a few. What we did was a fixed armoury for everyone to pick from and a lock on certain OP combinations.

As Ive stated before, I have nothing against Lucky L personally, and like you know he is the symptom of the faulty industry mmo system. Random loot generation is fine for non-pvp mmos.

No. Simply level cap the offending boss items so that level 60's will not be able to access some of the most powerful items and stack damages further....

i believe your solutions to the OP boss items would be the equivalent of my solution: time limit them just like draconic. Cease with random loot generation which is not suited for pvp mmos.

I retired and you guys let so much bullshit in one post walk unscathed? Damn.

lol, np bois. I think all your posts show a good degree of thought and planning. As Ive said earlier, I don't mind whether your or mine or someone else approach is used. All i mind is that its well thought out with a serious concenr for the game. You have that so I respect your views.

I would like everyone in forums to respect the views of others as well without denigrading them. If you believe someone is wrong, itis sufficient to state "I do not believe that to be the case" or provide a mathematical proof, but too often forum posters resort to attacking the poster or demeaning the ideas. That is not good.

[bois]

I will respond.

... they should spectate from far away int he back. this is a good way for them to get incentive to level up. so, I would not expect them to contribute vs a lvl 50, but i can hope for them to encounter other lvl 25-30s and fight them.

Thanks for unwittingly agreeing in totality to what I wrote before. So A low level must spectate and not do? Absurd. The basis of playing is to DO. Funnily enough, you hope for them to find other level 25-30's to fight yet, that is precisely what a low level warzone will do, minus the frustration of getting slaughtered in 2 hits by max levels. I appreciate you undermining your own argument which saves me the time to do it myself.

this quantity is still an unknown. My personal belief is that RvR pvp may never be a large part of the market. In NWN, pure pvpers were only about 5% of the total playerbase. You may be right that it may be better to have a softer pvp/mixed environment -- this is why in my posts, i leave open the possibility of making a lower level TDM bracket work. (though I prefer priority to be put on realm numbers rebalance first).

How much is the gaming market? What are the niches? What is the server cap for RO? Regnum Online is an indie, niche market game. It does not need to go after the large part of the market. It simply needs to pick its niche and be the best of that genre. Because of financial constraints , it has branched into other areas to try and pull out revenue. But, it is trying to be a jack-of-all-trades while being barely competitive at any. the game's claim to fame was that it was RvR, and was additively fun while being fairly casual. This began to change first with Invasion patch then finally for the worst just around the time of Warmasters.

Well in Ra boosting the population may have solved realm imbalance because I have heard it may be less of a concern there. But I still see many players in Haven discouraged and just logging out whenever clear imbalance is apparent. I feel these players can be encouraged to stay with some realm rebalance option: kidnapping, or a random allocation on login.

Apparent imbalance is muted by more numbers. More numbers> more spells able to be cast> more options> longer war>more fun. I have not played in a while but when I was there I saw several things.
*Players bored to death of same content and logging off.
*Incoherent tactics causing absurd failures (not population related)
*Mass AFK at saves causing frustration in players wanting to play.
There were more but they were less consequential.


I saw the kidnapping idea and to be honest, it was so weak technically I did not even feel the urge to post in the thread. That idea should be sent to pasture.
I reiterate (because you seem not to get it), the way the community is structured on all servers, a realm population shuffle like in instanced pvp games will destroy the fabric. In effect you have turned a community based game into a casual instanced one. Understand this clearly. Shatter the bonds of the community, shatter the fabric of the game. What you suggest is not going to work here. Can't you see that (theoretically at least) almost every mechanism in the game is structured around loyalty to a realm ?


I feel realm chat, despite some negativity, helps the community more than hampers it. .....

You mentioned creating a lower lvl wz instance and removing realm chat. I feel a lower lvl instance can work, but not in the present form. But i still feel realm numbers rebalance in the open warzone will still be needed even with a lower level instance.

No, not an instance. A persistent world that is capped to certain level brackets. It is available to all realms as a conflict zone but just for lower levels. Players can pop in and out, quests exist there, mobs and the whole works. Yes, remove realm chat from the full war zone but leave hotspots such as markets and saves among other landmarks.


Re: ability of level 25-30s to survive. .... learn to spectate and pick their targets (preferably other lvl25-30s) very very carefully. Once they hear and see the wz battles, and it is in a balanced numbers format, i suspect they will love the game and stay.

Yes, and what part of a separate low level warzone does not fulfil this ? Especially with the fun factor , thrills and obvious smaller gap in levels making it significantly more fun. FUN keeps people. Spectating ( aka : not doing anything) is for football matches and wrestling.
I assume you see how wars play out in the game right? So we have a fort war. Is any level 25 going to run out the fort? hmm? how far will they get?
How is the opposing lvl 25 (the ones outside) going to get anywhere near range to conflict with other 25's ? I have not even mentioned melee yet.

Open field. Any squishy target has to be outside range of marks to even survive. This means most time almost out of visual range. Even as a lvl 50 I can barely maintain range without getting nuked from max visual distance. So with lvl 25's behind each of these lines how are they to spectate? Worse yet, how are they to clash?
This is why I ask if you really play this game. I am not disrespecting your view. I say it is garbage because to my mind , that is exactly what it is. none of it as far as I see has any relation to reality on the battlefield.

Re: Whether combining lvl 1-37 from all realms will be enough for a lower level instance. I think you could be right (as I said I don't exclude that a loer level TDM can work), but im inclined to believe just introducing realm numbers rebalance will be a faster way to keep their attention.

What does a level 1-10 even know about the game, much less to make a decision about game balance when they just got there. Is 3 hours enough to make an informed decision about game balance especially with the wild fluctuation as relates to time zone populations? A new player is trying to learn the game. They don't give that much of a crap about the high level politics. They barely even know if they will stay, based on the base mechanics presented to them at the start. Your assertion is extremely weak and based on vapour.
You are pushing a rebalance hard on a segment of the population that is least able to effect a change in warzone demographics and power shift. Why?


Re: Whether improving PvE will cost too much. Darnit Bois, i can't remember precisely what you were recommending for PvE improvements. Small incremental changes -- maybe u r advocating for better quest lines and rewards. I'm just not sure this will be of sufficient improvement.

When players complain about boring PvE, I think they mainly want stuff like Tera action combat? (I guess this is why I think it wont make a difference). Maybe I'm wrong on that point?

PvE in this game is a means to an end. That end is level 60 .Everything about it should be geared towards that. All the incremental improvements will become "invisible" quickly. That is not a problem . So,
Quests should reward better and properly. Quest plots need not be intricate.
Gear should be more encouraging especially lower down and especially as quest rewards. I mean How cheap is NGD to not offer magical and epic gear for players level 3 to 25? Nobody is going to waste money on overly expensive boxes at that level. what impact would those players having them have in a war zone ? None.
Gold and economy need a fix. There is simply too much money in the game and inflation is spiralling out of control. Worse yet , the distribution of wealth between melee and ranged is not equitable.
Boss mobs should give more, spawn less or spawn according to the server population.


I thin the approach I described could work. Introduce random allocation on login for players are lvl 50+ and who have completed all quests. Maybe like you suggested, they can pay a premium to get the status for random allocation.

You sound more like Krungle all the time. I never suggested a person pay premium to get random allocation status. Don't twist my statements to your obtuse suggestions.

I've been stating that a change like random allocation on login should only proceed on a test server basis. I also feel that if done, it should be promoted as a major advance in the mmo industry space. No other pvp mmo does this on an open PvP basis. Yet I suspect it will reduce zerginess and attract many new players.

Should I go on just how bad an idea this is in a game that has a long term well defined structure ? Why push this game destroying feature so hard? Or is it you are unable to make or keep friends in the game so nobody should?

Re: That Diablo style random loot eventually results in OP items and builds. I believe I am still correct on this point. No matter how you design the damage modifiers or enhancements, eventually all the high powered loot will end up in the hands of a few players. What we found in neverwinter pvp is that items should not be designed to be random nor should OP items be permitted to end up in the hands of a few. What we did was a fixed armoury for everyone to pick from and a lock on certain OP combinations.

Your lack of knowledge on this game is astonishing.
The way NGD designed equipment after WM patch was a ticking timebomb. There are too many modifiers, they are too strong and stack cumulatively in some cases.
The armour system is not percentage based so that causes its own problems of stacking defences.
Some combinations of spells and passives stack cumulatively. This then stacks on the weapons making a serious problem.
This is the cause of massive variances between players.
NGD played the equipment game to pull in revenue. So much so that they pull the game balance to the seams with positive feedback loops.
20 extra power points means more powers and catchall build that can add passives and spells to levels never seen before. Never mind that the raise in level passively raised player attributes as well thus opening a gulf between level 45/50 players and level 60's

i believe your solutions to the OP boss items would be the equivalent of my solution: time limit them just like draconic. Cease with random loot generation which is not suited for pvp mmos.

It is not the equivalent. Not even close actually. My assertion is that the item is not at fault. It is the cumulative stacking on a character that is the problem. Thus, the item stays permanent (like many other MMOS) and fix the problem at the root which is the passives and spell equations as well as limit the way a character can stack damages across items in a cumulative way. I am UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE advocating time limited boss items like jewellery or weaponry/armour. What I am advocating is something like a tonic you can buy or drop (or craft) that improves your performance for a set time. Example a 1% strength booster for 30 minutes. Once activated, timer will not stop ticking down. If you activate another, the first expires.

[fotomay]

Thanks for unwittingly agreeing in totality to what I wrote before. So A low level must spectate and not do? Absurd. The basis of playing is to DO. Funnily enough, you hope for them to find other level 25-30's to fight yet, that is precisely what a low level warzone will do, minus the frustration of getting slaughtered in 2 hits by max levels. I appreciate you undermining your own argument which saves me the time to do it myself.

bois - i never said we were in disagreement. i continue to support a low level TDM but not done in the present form. I suspect a low level TDM is workable but not using the present map.

Now I turn to how a level 25 should play int he warzone. a level 25 is on the first rung of a 35 level progression. If you are the lowest player in the warzone, you play quiet and careful. This is how a long term game evolves. Even say in a lvl 10-40 TDM, a level 10 is not going to do a great deal more than spectate.

I continue to support random allocation on login as a faster+cheaper way to a more fun server for everyone, over finishing a polished working lower level TDM.

How much is the gaming market? What are the niches? What is the server cap for RO? Regnum Online is an indie, niche market game.... But, it is trying to be a jack-of-all-trades while being barely competitive at any. ..

My point precisely. I believe we are again in general agreement. CoR must focus on its niche RvR pvp market (though I think my suggested target market, being very hardcore PvP, is slightly smaller than yours, being slightly less hardcore, because of my willingness to put 25s into a wz with say 25-60s). And yes, under both our approaches, the precise numbers for how large this niche market is, is unknown.

Apparent imbalance is muted by more [server population] numbers.

Definitely, we are again in agreement on this point.

I have not played in a while but when I was there I saw several things.
*Players bored to death of same content and logging off.
*Incoherent tactics causing absurd failures (not population related)
*Mass AFK at saves causing frustration in players wanting to play.


My suggestion of a random allocation on login is not designed to solve everything in an RvR pvp format like CoR. There actually isn't a way to get rid of all the problems you are trying to refer to, because they are industrywide problems for the format. I personally think in a two year timeframe, they cannot be solved. But... largely fixing the realm imbalance and zerginess problem will put CoR head and shoulders above everyone else. That's what random allocation is aimed to do.

I saw the kidnapping idea and to be honest, it was so weak technically I did not even feel the urge to post in the thread. ... In effect you have turned a community based game into a casual instanced one. Understand this clearly. Shatter the bonds of the community, shatter the fabric of the game.

Yes, it is a major change in format. And yes it does threaten a major change to the present community thinking based on loyalty to the realm, which happens to be about 5 years old. My suggestion is that in 2 years time or less, new mmos are arriving which will render the entirety of CoR obsolete (if not already obsolete). My suggestion is that realm imablance or zerginess is a dominant portion of that obsolescence.

So, it is a case of trying to change one or two things which can provide the best chance for survival for CoR. My suspicion is that this will mean a turnover in the loyal playerbase, just for the game to succeed. I believe random allocation will actually force the playerbase to play for the game as a whole, and not for each realm, and remove a great deal of harmful acrimony presently impeding the games progress (accusations of multirealming, player hate).

Finally, whether it is kidnapping or random allocation on login, I am inclined to only support this idea if it proceeds first on a test server.


No, not an instance. A persistent world that is capped to certain level brackets. It is available to all realms as a conflict zone but just for lower levels. Players can pop in and out, quests exist there, mobs and the whole works. Yes, remove realm chat from the full war zone but leave hotspots such as markets and saves among other landmarks.

Ah i see, not an instance but an open separate lvl 25-say 40 world. Yes, I think this can work with a higher population and it is a very good idea. But we still have the problem of lifting the population. At the moment, I think Haven is around the 300 average online, and Ra is around the 500? We could try to drum up the population with some further events or launches?

My personal feeling is that even with a lower level instance, you will still get realm numbers imbalance and zerginess even at population of say 500, which will act to reduce the population again. So for this reason, I feel solving realm imbalance is still the higher priority. We would need a higher (maybe 1000+?) population to reduce the probability of imbalance arising. Can we get that population number?


Yes, and what part of a separate low level warzone does not fulfil this ?

Re: A lower level wz should speed encourage of players to stay.
As stated above, without a larger population (i suggested earlier w emay need 1,000), i think we will still get realm imbalance in the lower level wz. Splitting the wz like this will mean you need an even higher population to sufficiently reduce the probability of numbers imbalance in both the higher and lower level wz. Do you feel we have a plan we get those numbers?

Unless we can quickly get those numbers, I still believe removing realm numbers imabalance is a higher priority.

Keep in mind, even realm numbers does not solve all problems. It is a trade off. A game with evenly population realm numbers loses the fun of fighting in battles with uneven numbers (Ignis vs say Alsius at samal). Also, it assumes everyone generally knows and agrees on where and what to do. So, random allocation on login is actually only the frist step in getting to a healthy gaming server (same as what i experienced in my other server).

(continued below)

[fotomay]

(continued from above)

I assume you see how wars play out in the game right? So we have a fort war. Is any level 25 going to run out the fort? hmm? how far will they get?

In realm chat, we regularly get requests from lvl10-25 players asking for navigation on where the fight is. And when I tell them to come and watch, yes they ride out all the way there. We regularly see "unchallenging" ranked players at fort caps standing on the walls enjoying the atmosphere. Whenever players tell them to go back and grind or that they are useless, I always say that they are entitled to come watch and it is fun. More of this attitude should help promote the game as fun, and show lvl 25s that its super dangerous and not to expect much at lvl 25. (yes many low levels dont survive the trip, but they never complain about dying -- they keep trying to get there !)

That's one funny point - we never hear complaints in realm chat about dying on the way to a fort cap. We hear a LOT of complains in realm chat about realm numbers imbalance and zerginess (then they just log out).

Open field. Any squishy target has to be outside range of marks to even survive.

I was in the wz at lvl 25 on all my chars. Quite a few new players some 60s now and some still grinding, enter the warzone at level 25. Yea we all die a lot. But these guys never complain. The ones that do complain are when they see realm numbers imba and zerginess.

Your assertion is extremely weak and based on vapour.... You are pushing a rebalance hard on a segment of the population that is least able to effect a change in warzone demographics and power shift. Why?

My assertion that lvl 25s should be encouraged to participate in the wz and can participate is not based on vapour. As mentioned above, realm chat is regularly filled with requests from new players for directions on where and how to get tothe fight. They never complain about dying. But many players do vocally complain abaout realm numbers imba.

Ok just clarifying -- I have only ever been proposing random allocation on login to level 50+s. Not on lvl 25s. This proposal is based on the idea (probably same idea as yourself) that the biggest impact on wz balance is from higher level players.

PvE in this game is a means to an end. That end is level 60 .

I think improving the PvE is a good plan, but i think getting all the quests, plots, mobs, gold, gears and so on precisely right is a lot more labour intensive than using what is already available to hold on to players: the warzone fighting. So focussing on getting the warzone rebalanced (ie: random allocation only for level 50+s) I feel is the fastest and cheapest solutuion.

But.... keep in mind I dont say my approach is the only and best approach. If NGD was to follow say your approach, and produce the results, the you and I both have produced the same desired result: CoR to succeed.

You sound more like Krungle all the time. I never suggested a person pay premium to get random allocation status. Don't twist my statements to your obtuse suggestions.

You wrote earlier: "Won't work. All they need to do is to push PvE to the back burner as the main XP gain. Push RvR / PvP as a bigger contributor. Sell premium to reflect this."

My response was "Maybe like you suggested, they can pay a premium to get the status for random allocation." My reference to your suggestion was the use of premium selling. I apologise if there was a mistaken implication that your ssuggestion connected to random allocation. What I meant to highlight was that both your ide and mine had avenues to xim sales.

(One portion of the idea realm random allocation on login was to sell the ability to be randomly allocated to xim buyers, ona voluntary basis. Though of course this would not immediately balance out numbers, it could give an idea of how strongly players felt a better realm balance was desirable).


Your lack of knowledge on this game is astonishing.
The way NGD designed equipment after WM patch was a ticking timebomb. ...

Admittedly, I would not have the in depth knowledge of WM and early dasys as someone as yourself. But my position on the present equipment and combat setup is probably identical to yours: its pretty bad. However, I feel its workable right now for new players. I feel the way forward is to have full disclosure of all combat formulas, and failing that (probably because NGD cant work it out), aim for a new engine in 2 year time.

You see, although your ideas for trying to fix the combat engine are probably good, I suspect NGD doesn't have the knowledge or resources to fix it. Two years of time, thats all they have, most of it spent working on their other games i presume.

It is not the equivalent. Not even close actually. My assertion is that the item is not at fault. It is the cumulative stacking on a character that is the problem. Thus, the item stays permanent (like many other MMOS) and fix the problem at the root which is the passives and spell equations....... What I am advocating is something like a tonic you can buy or drop (or craft) that improves your performance for a set time.

Re: time limited boss items. I think it would be good to fix the passives and spell equations and those details you mentioned. I just don't think the time, resources and willingness is there in NGD to do it.

Admittedly, I do not have all the detailed knowledge you have, but as a new player when I look at the whole situation during combat, i feel the biggest impact is made by boss item holders (very clear from realm chat). So I am inclined to support the fastest solution, which to me is time limiting them (like a time limited tonic).

I think a portion of our discussion may be because neither of us fully understands the details of each others proposals (ie: a communication problem because forums formats are a very poor way of getting that knowledge).

Hopefully, you are not overly offended by my potentially shallow knowledge or my attempts to offer suggestions. However, what I am looking at is a basically good game which could be great, but which needs to do something in the next 2 years just to survive Rift, TESO, CU, Archage and others. I feel the greatest obstacle is ht eloss of player numbers due to players leaving once they see realm imbalance and zerginess. I feel fixing that can be done relatively easily. That is why i support it over other more detailed fixes.

[bois]

I have been here a while. I have seen imbalances, rebalances and so on.

Regnum is a complaint cycle. Realm imbalance today, multirealmers tomorrow and then spell balances the next day.

What you propose is literally a whole new game. You cannot surgically implant your random login idea without destroying the fabric of entire game. Are you prepared for a mass Exodus? Every single design is predicated around loyalty to a realm and the rivalry that comes with that.

Will it boost revenue to fix realm imbalance? (which has existed since the beginning of time in this game). I suggest marginally and only temporarily. Because when the façade of realm balance fades, we then see the total mess of what everything else is because the smokescreen is gone. Then you will begin to realise that realm imbalance is only the tip of a very deep iceberg.

As a new player you see things from a small vista. Your bias from Never Winter Nights pushes this module system and balancing system on a population that may not want or be prepared for it. In actuality if they wanted that they may well be playing NWN instead of this game.

Us older players have been around long enough to see the genesis, growth and development of this game from its very humble roots. With this understanding and actual experience on the ground (multiple time in multiple ways) we tend to have oversight where you cannot see at all.

Realm balance is a problem. But, it never broke the server and never depopulated it either except in the case of Alsius for an extended period. Curious decisions by NGD did depopulate Horus (as it was called) and in some cases, realms imploded by themselves.

But, you will see.

The last thing NGD will want to do is piss off their established base especially RA. If your idea goes forward I feel quite sure that will happen and will be the final nail in the coffin for this Studio.

[SirHiss]

Wow how pissed i would be if i logged on and suddenly ended up as a goat/gelf

[Zas_]

Wow how pissed i would be if i logged on and suddenly ended up as a goat/gelf

I think this is me main issue... people don't want random realm or character.

This is an MMO Role Playing Game, choosing your character background (here, your race, gender, realm, class) is a very important aspect in such games.
People want to play with their friends too.

Balancing realm numbers at war (because we don't care unbalanced number of low level grinders much) can be done only by:
- encouraging new players to join underpopulated realm (done).
- allowing characters to sell their skills to underpopulated realm (mercenaries idea, ridiculous according to Chilko (http://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93028&highlight=mercenaries&page=2))
- limited number of fighters (instances, will kill the sole thing this game has, open fight)
- make forts "passive" defense (doors/guards/capture delay) dependant on war population (tried for gate, badly designed and no AI, failed)
- reduce the imbalance in fight by buffing weakest realm (not tried yet)
- ?

[Ulti19]

One point that Bois pointed out is something I agree is crippling the game too. Lv's 30 and minus trying to experience the warzone is such a pain in the ass. Before when the cap was 50, it was ok, but nowadays I can take my 4 year old knight to play and if I run into any lower levels I almost feel sorry for them, even barbs can't scratch me. The grind is also so painful in the game that those players can't really have a feeling of helping for so long, normal players anyways.

Lower levels are very heavily penalized, most of us vet's don't feel so damaged by this game's system because we have our high level characters and we stuck it out through the years. But this game offers almost nothing except for RvR, hunting and PvP, there is no PvE in this game. And even as a knight I can 2 shot some enemies who are super low, and anything under 50doesn't have any chance. But then again if we split the warzone to 30 and under and another to 30 and up, servers like haven will suffer again because we don't have a good population, it has always been like this.

Maybe some players feel leet that they can 3 shot and pwn 9 level 20's alone. But that's like a 10 yo kid fighting a 20 yo. Not all the players are like some of us who grind super fast because we know the game mechanics well. System should be changed somehow. And this is just a small thing hurting the game.

[bois]

Wow how pissed i would be if i logged on and suddenly ended up as a goat/gelf

And this is exactly the point I am trying to impress on Fotomay. Most of the game design is around loyalty towards a realm. Thus, this means you choose a race which is exclusive to a realm, has specific attributes and base point spreads.
Every dime you spent on styling your character would be lost or made null and void as a form of revenue.
Invasions would be an even bigger pile of manure because you would be fighting to get benefits one day and the next you are on the losing side you just beat down to get the reward. I am a Molok, what do I get when I log in and magically appear in Alsius. An Ugthar? Or maybe, every realm gets every race in it. Why even have realms at all ?

His idea to transplant random assignment into this game is lacking thought. Full stop. It is quite obvious he never stopped to look at the game structure in its entirety and notice just how much it would destroy (the whole game) just for "realm balance" which is not even the biggest problem here.

Realm (im)balance is a symptom of poor design, full stop.
Ask yourselves, why was Regnum so infectious and so fun before Invasions and why the slow and steady decline set in after invasions expansion.
The answer exists in there.

As a side note, populations are low. But we forget something. Each realm population of inner realmers are isolated and this lack of bustling activity is stark. This is why you need realm chat in the War zone at the moment. To make the game appear alive.
Put all 3 realm into a conflict zone at lower levels and the game seems more "alive". Three separated populations become one. Plus, no need for a long line of boring quests. PvP will be the mainstay of that levelling. Quests will revolve around RvR in part. PvE ones will be boss kills. With a history of RvR behind these players, they come to the main warzone better skilled, more organised and better able to contribute.
But then what do I know? I never made a MMO from scratch with no money.

[Shwish]

Lower levels are very heavily penalized, most of us vet's don't feel so damaged by this game's system because we have our high level characters and we stuck it out through the years. But this game offers almost nothing except for RvR, hunting and PvP, there is no PvE in this game. And even as a knight I can 2 shot some enemies who are super low, and anything under 50doesn't have any chance. But then again if we split the warzone to 30 and under and another to 30 and up, servers like haven will suffer again because we don't have a good population, it has always been like this.


This game was born riding on the success of Dark Ages of Camelot which is still in my honest opinion the greatest mmorpg ever made. On a daily bases I find posts on various forums of players searching for a modern game similar to DAoC meaning the demand for such a game is still as strong as it was back then.

For me the biggest let down in Regnum is its PvE. CoR cannot compete with a PvE mmorpg so why even bother trying. NGD made the right move to market this game a PvP game but the grinding and questing aspect of the game contradicts that. Which is also what I feel is the main reason new player retention is so low. Players come here expecting to have player on player fun but soon find out they have to endure a mountain of beastly sabertooths before they can even make a real difference in war.

So the big question I'm asking is why is NGD spending half a year developing a PvE aspect (ie. dragons) when they really should be working on something more geared towards world pvp (or RvR) such as new capturable fortification structures, a capturable resource mechanic or siege warfare etc.

The proposed lower level warzone places new players in the heat of war from the get go. This is what new players want. If they wanted a ton of quests they would play a game that was designed for that and if they wanted to kill a million poorly programmed AI's, there are more than enough Asian mmorpg's out there.

Sure a low level warzone might split the population to some extent but it would be the portion of the population that wouldn't have been involved in war in the first place. However in the long run it would keep those new players who get fed up of boring quests and grinding entertained long enough to start to love RvR as much as this games veterans do making them want to grind their way to 60 as fast as they can out of excitement to experience the real warzone. Added to that is that level lower levels are more than welcome to enter the higher level warzone if they like as they do now.

Lower level warzones seem to be what the game desperately needs to keep new players interested and simply telling them that its awesome at level 60 isn't enough. If NGD really wants this game to succeed they really need to look into this and stop developing PvE. Play to your strengths, PvE is not one of them and not the reason so much players remain loyal to NGD.

[fotomay]

i guess what i am puzzled over is the roleplaying concept of being loyal to one realm.
I feel the majority knows this to be largely a fiction. Almost everyone ends up having multiple characters in multiple realms and shifting realms, or just not playing when realm domination shifts.

It does appear others do not support my idea of random allocation, yet allowing the fiction to exist tends to fracture the game community. About 70%+ of the recommendations and support comes from players self-interested in their own builds and own realsm (not bois's, bois suggestions look to always be in the interests of the game as whole). Of all things, I feel this internal hostility is really preventing the community and the devs from perceiving and uniting behind common support to pprogress the game as whole.

In any case, and I hope bois will agree, it is only a personal idea of mine and I completely agree that it can be discarded and refused by the community, especially the longer-term players. It isn't only my game. But I do firmly believe in the logic of the idea of random allocation, and hope one day realm imbalance may be solved, even if not by my idea.



ps - i still believe there is no need to fix the activity for lvls 1-30. Getting to lvls 28-30 takes just 8-12 hours of questing. With realm chat turned on, new players can read and be drawn to the activity in the warzone. I guess it really is a difference in players perceived to be targeted by the game.

[bois]

The genesis of multirealming started because of NGD's total lack of vision of content refresh. For example, the level 60 expansion came about 2 years too late and the game was already in decay.

They only did it to raise revenue , not for the benefit of the game. It was obvious by the haphazard, half assed way they did it. Don't tell me somos pocos. The amount of time spent on it should have produced something better.

Because of lack of content especially at the end, many players wanting to experience the thrills again, were forced to make 3,4,6 characters. They then were forced to move (multi realm) to relive the dead ended content.
By the time you got 6 in each realm, what do you do ?

Hop realms to find the most thrill in the hope that you don't die of boredom on a game filled with so much nostalgia.

The problem is content. Not PvE content. RvR content.

Next problem. NGD is stuck in the myopia of having to live off XP boosters and boxes for revenue. They can't see past it.
So the shitty PvE experience exists for this solely. To make money. This is why resists/evades are there on mobs and the grind is so long and tedious with few quests in between. To sell boosters. Don't say to drop gear because the drop rate and quality is an abomination and honestly, a rip-off.

But, they could have sold PvP XP boosters. They could have developed clans as a major way to gain revenue. They could have provided rent type items in the game to build consistent, recyclable revenue. But no.

What do I mean by rent items? Potions that offer limited modifiers instead of permanent multiple modifiers on gear that break the game. These are available as drops and as premium. They are time limited and you can only equip one for armour and one for weapon. One defensive one offensive.

They could have offered minimalist crafting techniques and paired it with premium elixirs to craft better gear.

They could have offered free and premium quest lines.

There are more options that I listed over the years.

Rental horses. Cap gold bank so that you can sell bank expansion slots. There are many many ways to raise revenue but they have blinkers on.

But then my new sig should be >>> I never made A MMO with no money so what do I know.


One last thing. Fotomay, it is not about 8 to 10 hours of questing. It is about the first and second impression the game gives during that first 8 hours. This is why there is so much loss between level 8 and level 25. Players expect something, sign on to that , then get monotonous grind, poor quest with ridiculous rewards and then, realise they get totally pwned in the warzone. They then realise they have 35 more levels of increasing monotony and boredom like they just passed just to be able to have a chance out there. Wouldn't you quit too especially in the face of a game Like GW2 that adjusts levels dynamically ? That is the point.
A game is about fun, not a grind like you are working in a coal mine.

[AariEv]

i guess what i am puzzled over is the roleplaying concept of being loyal to one realm.
I feel the majority knows this to be largely a fiction. Almost everyone ends up having multiple characters in multiple realms and shifting realms, or just not playing when realm domination shifts.

It does appear others do not support my idea of random allocation, yet allowing the fiction to exist tends to fracture the game community. About 70%+ of the recommendations and support comes from players self-interested in their own builds and own realsm (not bois's, bois suggestions look to always be in the interests of the game as whole). Of all things, I feel this internal hostility is really preventing the community and the devs from perceiving and uniting behind common support to pprogress the game as whole.

In any case, and I hope bois will agree, it is only a personal idea of mine and I completely agree that it can be discarded and refused by the community, especially the longer-term players. It isn't only my game. But I do firmly believe in the logic of the idea of random allocation, and hope one day realm imbalance may be solved, even if not by my idea.



ps - i still believe there is no need to fix the activity for lvls 1-30. Getting to lvls 28-30 takes just 8-12 hours of questing. With realm chat turned on, new players can read and be drawn to the activity in the warzone. I guess it really is a difference in players perceived to be targeted by the game.

A couple of things...

You regard realm loyalty as fiction, but it's very much existent everywhere. In every realm, there are a core set of loyalists who support their faction above all else. They may possess characters in other realms, and may rarely play those characters secretly for a change of pace, but they still prioritize the flag to which belong.

As for multirealmers, you operate under the belief that choosing to play in multiple realms automatically means you are loyal to none. This is absolutely incorrect. The fundamental truth is that quite a few multirealmers are in fact loyal to one realm and when that same realm is in peril, they will support it. This phenomenon is best observable during invasion attempts when players, despite being active in other factions, will switch back to their home realm for support (usually with invasion defense). As a player whose planned invasion attempts for Syrtis in the past, I'm also aware of quite a few high level players in other realms who would switch to Syrtis whenever I organized something. Likewise, I'm also aware of all the realm loyalists who would support Syrtis no matter what. According to you, people like me don't exist.

You need to relinquish the notion of realm loyalty being nonexistent. Then you'd understand why no one supports your random realm allocation concept as you describe it. Furthermore, in order to commit to such an idea, it would take a massive amount of programming (not to implement realm shuffling, but to modify and alter every concept in the game that it breaks) and in the process, you'd be angering the players who chose their specific realm for a reason.

I wrote this thread partly as a guide in order to bring attention to the major player retention problem RO has. However, it's become clear that participants in this thread are divided between which players they're attempting to retain with their ideas. You seem to be targeting players who still decide to give this game a chance beyond level 10. I wrote about targeting the vast amount of players who leave before reaching level 10 because they're stuck with massively boring PvE and aren't able to experience where this game truly shines. Therein lies the true retention problem.

Though I'm a player who would be "self interested in my own realm" if I still played, that doesn't make my perspective and opinion any less correct.

Regards

[fotomay]

A couple of things...

You regard realm loyalty as fiction, but it's very much existent everywhere. ... You need to relinquish the notion of realm loyalty being nonexistent. Then you'd understand why no one supports your random realm allocation concept as you describe it.

yes. maybe i have underestimated the strength of realm loyalty. but i still suspect it can only be in a state of decay.. over time, the likelihood of new players forming deep links with existing core groups just seems to me to be less and less. But maybe the right time for this idea has not (and may never) arrive.

Furthermore, in order to commit to such an idea, it would take a massive amount of programming (not to implement realm shuffling, but to modify and alter every concept in the game that it breaks)...

I don't think there is very much to modify outside of random login actually. What Im suggesting is that the random login effect be only given to players above level 50 who have completed all xp quests outside of realm tasks. As for warmaster quests, i would suggest simply coding a translation of the wm quest counters to another realm whenever a switch occurs. I think that is all that is needed.

(it does mean that players can sort of refuse to complete xp quests so as to avoid being randomly allocated. but that is fine in my thinking. players who never want to be shuffled, can choose not to be. I suspect the majority will eventually choose to be shuffled - especially new players coming in. (even so, we must still think of the loss revenue for ngd in multiple accounts))

I wrote this thread partly as a guide in order to bring attention to the major player retention problem RO has.... However, it's become clear that participants in this thread are divided between which players they're attempting to retain with their ideas. ..... I wrote about targeting the vast amount of players who leave before reaching level 10 because they're stuck with massively boring PvE ...

You make a very good point and I also feel the target client base is different in focus. Sorry, didnt mean to derail your thread as i only wanted to mention the idea/considerations it in passing.

Just want to make clear to bois and urself that both your ideas and deep thinking are completely credible and workable. I hope this discussion helps NGD realise the added dimensions to Regnum's situation, and that they put their usual hard thought in using the ideas to make the game a success.


One last thing. Fotomay, it is not about 8 to 10 hours of questing.... Wouldn't you quit too especially in the face of a game Like GW2 that adjusts levels dynamically ? That is the point... A game is about fun, not a grind like you are working in a coal mine.

A really really good point. I also hate the grinding and slowness compared to games likw GW2, Tera etc and feel many players drop out because of it. But i just sorta feel that it is impossible for Regnum to compete with them anyway, without a complete new engine. I tend to feel all the commendable and deeply thought changes you and Aari put forward would also need, a lesser, but still too great a degree of effort.

So thats why i felt the random login idea was quick and eays. But as you guys noted, it may and would likely involve too large a change cost for the existing playerbase.

[Dumberest]

player retention has always been an issue.this topic has been raised many times in the past.it received an unwelcome response on many occasions.

i dont understand why you are bothering about retaining players under lvl 10.the real problem is the ones who leave after reaching lvl 30.they have proven they are willing to stick around and have shown atleast a small amount of interest in the game.

we can all come up with the greatest idea's in the world,they will fall on deaf ears.

as far as im aware its NGD's policy to have a high turn over of players.the server cannot cope with too many and its more profitable if they come,buy a mount and a few lucky box's then get turned off by the endless grinding and quit.

for me the real player retention issue is the lvl 60 players leaving the game.most have the same reason for leaving,they are bored,feel let down by the increasing number of bugs appearing and the players exploiting them,they feel its just a pay to win.

NGD has to act and fast.Haven has been in crisis mode for years,the server has been laggy since day 1 and its never improved.

we all agree pre warmasters was the best times for us,but were stuck with it now.personally id like to see NGD sell haven server to another game developer and give them open licence to fix the game and change it to suit the needs of a smaller(english speaking customer base).

haven has been laggy from day 1 and ive always had this suspicions its because they made an error somewhere translating the spanish into english lolz.whatever the case is if a new company ran haven server,changed its game play and gave us what we need then maybe the server would grow in size.under its current circumstances haven isnt going to grow.only a fool would think it will.we have merged with raven,had game samba join us,had steam join us and still we cannot even reach 25% capacity on a busy day.whats next a merge with piranah?

haven server caters for english speaking players most.therefor it also makes alot of sense to host the server in a central location to ALL of its player base in order to give them all the same game experience.hosting it in sweden only gives advantages to one sector and limits the potential market share.CoR attracts players who want to win.when they learn that because they have a high ping they will suffer,ofc they are going to leave.this is limiting as well.

move the servers to say India,this might give the USA and european players the same ping and remove any advantages/disadvantages given by hosting the servers at the top of the globe.why on earth NGD need to host the game from sweden is a mystery to us all.

[ieti]

You can not have server in India and have it equal for all. This is impossible, because of the way internet is made. Most companies make servers at Europe, US, Asia i.e. at continent basis. The reason NGD do not do this is, because it is expensive and for me they lack money and player base.

For example my internet provider tries to manage good connection to Telia, so most WoW players have low ping.

I think they host at CityNetwork very cheap and maybe they are friends with them and maybe even this hosting bosses are RO players.

It is just a guess tho.

--

As i live in Bulgaria my ping to Haven is like 80 - 100. It lags only if something is really really messed up.

[bois]

I don't think there is very much to modify outside of random login actually. What Im suggesting is that the random login effect be only given to players above level 50 who have completed all xp quests outside of realm tasks.

Well let us test that a little. Let us apply your random login and see what we need to modify.

1. All races will need to be applied to all realms.
2. Because of 1. above, all race base attributes will have to be rebalanced.
3. All boss items will have to be re-factored so that anyone can wear them in any configuration. (not a big deal)
4. Clans will probably have to be abolished and everything that goes with it.
5. Auctions houses will have to be probably united to one instanced AH to prevent imbalanced flows of gear.
6. You would have to grandfather certain gear.
7. You might have to stop level 50 + players entering the safe zones.

8. Invasions.
a. bonuses and malus will have to be abolished.
b. random number generator repaired in order to shuffle whole populations equitably. Massive equation needed to shuffle numbers in raw population, numbers of each sub class, levels and warmasters (with equitable numbers of each subclass of warmaster)
c. removal of the invading into the lands of of opposing forces, the population of which , do not shuffle according to you.

d. Invasions will have to remain separate in the warzone.

d (1) which means that you now have to redo the whole warzone
d (1a) which means all new capture mechanics
d (1b) all new terrain and battlement placements
d (1c) all new reward system

Yeah you are right. That seems like not much work at all.

[Krungle]

bios, is this really the game you want to play or would you rather just play one of your own design?

As posted on another thread:

1) Dragons: they have the entrances, give us the instances.

2) Give us control over the hotkey assignments, including how to reach the second bar. Make - & = usable options for this as well as <ctrl>, <alt> and <shift>

3) Give us the ability to customize the chat window tabs and right-click ability on names in chat (details I have given on other threads).

The first will bring people back, the second and third will keep new players rather than run them off.

[bois]

It's Bois by the way. Not bios.

No it is not the game I grew accustomed to playing for 5 years. So I retired. I'll take liberties to still comment as I would rather the game survive than sink.

As far as I know, I am free, within certain limits to post my own opinions on what I think the game could be if maybe it went a certain way. I am not forcing anybody to see it my way.
However, if my strong will and determined, forceful speeches are bruising you I apologise. I'll send you some cocoa butter.

Until NGD gets fed up of me and decides to eventually ban me, I will keep posting my ideas which by the way, has had the support of many over the years. Which, by the way, make a whole lot more sense than some of your offerings.

On top of that, if you actually cared to read the context, I am actually suggesting why the changes Fotomay (or is it your alter ego) posed would not work in the game as constructed. In an ironic way, I am supporting the current construct as against a random login system.
Or did that fly over your head?

As for your suggestions, They are fine. They are useful. But they are not earth shattering.

Give it a week or 2 to go "invisible" as such features quickly do and we will be right back to the core problems. Problems that the community had discussions over the years and long before you graced us with your appearance. Problems that remain rooted and multiply as new layers get added to the game.

You obviously have not read my previous offerings else you would know your one liner is pure folly.

[fotomay]

My responses on bois observations. I could be wrong because bois does think deeper to an extent :-

1. All races will need to be applied to all realms: No need to change anything really. Foreign visiting player to a realm must have completed all xp quests in his home realm, and can only access wm quests in foreign realm.

2. Because of 1. above, all race base attributes will have to be rebalanced: Nope no need to rebalance anything. Game should work fine as it is.

3. All boss items will have to be re-factored so that anyone can wear them in any configuration. (not a big deal): No need to change anything I expect. I would still strongly support time limiting boss items.

4. Clans will probably have to be abolished and everything that goes with it: Nope no need to change this. We have had cross-realm clans before and they worked fine. In fact, these clans worked to share combat skills and promote the game as a whole.

5. Auctions houses will have to be probably united to one instanced AH to prevent imbalanced flows of gear: Since random login acts to distributes players across realms, I suspect there is no need to prevent AH working across realms. (i would be very interested in the actual probability distribution of gear tho; only ngd knows this).

6. You would have to grandfather certain gear: I think because random login distributes players across realms, there should be no need to grandfather gear.

7. You might have to stop level 50 + players entering the safe zones: It should be ok. You are worried if a player froma foreign realm enters the safe zone of another realm they might do something with the quests or rewards? I think only players who have completed all quests should be allowed to be allocated away from their home realm. All questing apart from wm questing i think should be then disabled.

8. Invasions: Should be fine. If you are randomly allocated on login to a foreign realm, you automatically are required to move to battle onwhichever side invasion is happening. Personally, I think if you are randomly allocated away from your last realm during an invasion, then you are automatically respawned at central save ( to have consistency instead of randomly appearing inside enemy lines during invasion ).

a. bonuses and malus will have to be abolished: Not sure which bonus or maluses you are referring to :-/

b. random number generator repaired in order to shuffle whole populations equitably. Massive equation needed to shuffle numbers in raw population, numbers of each sub class, levels and warmasters (with equitable numbers of each subclass of warmaster): Nope no need. Use the present RNG. RNG only operates to choose to allocate new login as between two lowest pop realms. No further equations needed. No need to balance out classes allocated because the fact of random login acts to shuffle them anyway. I guess it is a question of what we mean by "balance". I'm happy with balance being lvls50+ numerically balanced regardless of class/rp score etc.

c. removal of the invading into the lands of of opposing forces, the population of which , do not shuffle according to you: Nope, invading into inner realm can still be permitted. if you are shuffled during death or login, you should appear back at central save of the new realm.

d. Invasions will have to remain separate in the warzone: No need to separate them.. Maybe I am missing something..?

Accoridng to my understanding :-
d (1) which means that you now have to redo the whole warzone: No need.
d (1a) which means all new capture mechanics: No need, shud be automated once ur character is flagged to another realm.
d (1b) all new terrain and battlement placements: No need.
d (1c) all new reward system: No need.

So.. really not much work. Though I think you are a good and detailed thinker, so maybe I am missing something. Could well be that.

edit: Keep in mind - under a random allocation to lowest pop realm on login scheme, I would strongly strongly support a chance of random allocation to lowest pop realm on any death as well. This helps balance the game because it gives players in a realm with a weaker composition of players to target a single strong player in an enemy realm and somehow "kidnap" him to their realm. That player could logout and login again, but hey thats really bad sportsmanship, and there's a pretty good chance he will end up on the same realm which kidnapped him too. heh.

[Tamui]

Why the fuck are you keep pushing your ideas of random log-ins and time-limited boss jewellery when everyone is against it?

[kmdk]

Why the fuck are you keep pushing your ideas of random log-ins and time-limited boss jewellery when everyone is against it?

Personaly i don't like and i will never accept to login other realm.
If NGD will random distribute me in a realm i will delete game instantly.

I dont agree neighter with time limited idea of any kind of item.
Even i'm anti boss jewellery that seems are supra saturated in game now ,tired to see around hunters with 1500 ensnare and 1k normals ,tired to see around barbs with criticals of 2,8k dmg because of this amulets and rings or with 4k sc on a full buffed marks , .etc etc... i dont agree with time limited boss.

Haven has now low population ,but seems most of players that are still in game are collection of player from Raven ,Horus,Tyr that come with boss jew ,i can say ignis have the most rate of ubergeard boss items ,it's usual to see how a ignis barb doing tons of dmg.

There are two factors that NGD helped this players to be even more ubergeard:

-Criticals insane
-Fulminanting for barbs and cold blood for hunters

The system that NGD build is lame ,HC to influence criticals (but only HC from items)and put even more jew with HC from boss drops.

With a ring of earth + power smite ring + amulet ,80% of hits are crits ,and + 80 dmg bonus help that insane crits.

They will argue that it's not for premium users ... wrong again.
1.)Boss jew are droped only by knights,never found a fair system to be random for all players and equal.
2.)This drops are for sale on black market.

Lets see again lil from the system:

A.)Criticals insane and are made only by boss users that have already a advantage.

People will say ..other one that complaint about boss drops,yes because if before was not enaught that they did lots of dmg ,now they do also insane crits.And the bad think is are not even scalable dmg/armor in game play.


And also i don't want this dragons back ,Haven has already hight rate with this ubergeard players,i don't have any boss items but i don't want to see them back in game ...
Game is dmg and items oriented ,not anymore skills or other thinks.

[Krungle]

I have to agree with kmdk that anyone able to kill a buffed mid 50's toon in two *normal* hits is too powerful.

[bois]

Let take another look.

1 and 2. I don't understand how you intend to apply a foreign player. As far as I see it, the game seems to have the special races coded (flagged) to realms. This then means that you have to recode it so that any race is accepted in any realm without coding issues. Otherwise, you would have a situation where a player is assigned a random race on login which would be a bad thing not to mention a coding nightmare. Very bad. I hope I don't have to explain why. Because of the flag change, and the need to do it globally, all races should be able to be offered from level 1. This then means you have to do over the whole realm choice thing at the start. I would like to see you sell that idea to the NGD staff.

This then leads to a situation where players may need to cash in quests inner realm. That negates making it flag to only warzone and as such the coding has make sure a player can enter the inner area to cash in and do other transactions. Obviously this no longer makes sense because the only reason to go inner is for community purposes.
That is of course eliminated in favour of roving mercenaries who have no idea which place they will land. Which then means that you can't have diversity by realms based on race because it simply won't make sense. Thus, there shall be no diversity. Then, realms have no value other than the colour they bear. Were we doing server vs server it could work. Not on a single server.

Note that all this breaks because you intend to balance by level 50+ players yet at the same time, have players below 50 bound to a realm and expect them to fight and build loyalty for a realm from as low as level 25. You then expect them to drop all that and the loyalties built up in favour of random login to realms to which they may have no allegiance.

Yet you seem to miss the psychological or human impact of all that. All you are going to get is a Team fortress 3. Or maybe you want that.

3. If the drops on bosses were equitable and more common, maybe. It is far simpler and less damaging from a PR position to level cap the current ones and make a few new ones for higher levels to wear. Time limiting rare/ semi -rare items in a game is a very bad idea.

4. Cross realm clans in this game ? Name one. Show me how they shared skills and improved the game. Show me how they worked. Show me how in a war with 2 sides fighting that a cross realm clan with players on both sides would work. Show me how they would share skills when they are opponents. Show me how war would not be compromised.
A cross realm clan would be for itself and not a realm. If it is spread across 3 realms as would be fully expected how do we do clan chat? , Ranks? anything else for that matter without compromising the integrity of the game?
It is amazing see just how little thought you put into this.

5 and 7. This game I doubt has probability distributions. That would be severely skewed by the premium items in the channel anyway. The probability is simply that the drop rate is so scarce that you are shepherded towards buying premium boxes in order to compete. It is just that simple.

So anyway, I log into my low level toon which I have packed up with gold. I then proceed to hoard everything I can buy and lock it into that toon which is locked on a particular realm. I then keep those item warehoused for resale at absurd prices for either my friends or even my toon. I do this on each realm to jerrymander the system so that I can send stuff out to black market to sell for real money. Realms may be balanced but I have now hijacked the systems so that I can sell to the highest bidder thus causing an imbalanced flow not to a realm but to big cash buyers. But then this does not matter , so long as you get a balanced login.

8. I get you. You discount the whole human factor. It is irrelevant for you . But then, that is what this game is about and you fail to understand this. As a matter of fact, it is what keeps this game intact.
A random login will soon bore most players because that is simply no humanity in it. It will be a game for sociopaths. Trolls come and go, quickly. The friendly ones stay a while and form bonds even beyond the game. Random login leaves little room because your friend one day is your sworn enemy the next. A virtual constant psychological knee jerk system.
But then why do I bother, you simply cannot see it.

Eventually it will die because the sociopaths will wreck it and the casual will come and leave very fast because of the inhumanity of it. But then , NGD would have made their booster money already.

8a. I just fought for a week of malus for Ignis, next login I am in Ignis. I am level 51.
I just fought for a bonus for myself and I am in Ignis. I login and I am in Alsius. I am level 51. Next login I am in Syrtis. Because of random number I could go Back to Alsius next login.
If I was to go to Ignis it might be not random.
Oh and it is not random as you eliminate the option of logging into your previous realm no matter the number situation . Woot! You just hijacked your own system from random to Kinda random.

8b. I would like to see you watch an army "randomly" shuffled for numbers only and be on the opposing side of a group disproportionately composed of ultra geared Barbs, Conjus and marks mostly level 60. I am sure you will enjoy that. You want that clearly because you want the equation to ONLY be based on populations from a pool of level 50 -60.

8c. Are you actually suggesting shuffle after death? I just broke my back fighting , died and for nothing because I went elsewhere ? So now I have to have a potential penalty for dying? Bullshit.
Yes, it must be fun to be a captive population, constantly raped by random forces and defended by players who don't have any allegiance or give a shit except for selfish reasons.
If my random team is losing , pretty easy to log off and play the login game to end up on the winning side.

8d. Literally everything you do will have a knock on impact on the inner realms. (much of it not good) Obviously you are robotics and cannot or don't want to calculate psychological impact so it would be a waste of time to go into that in detail.
Needless to say, the warzone must now be insulated so that the negative effects will not spill over. I suppose I will have to plow though those too since you simply don't seem to get human psychology. But again I get you. You don't understand because you have locked yourself into not understanding on purpose because you think your idea is brilliant.

It is not.

So, as you insulate the warzone from the inner, you must eliminate all invasion mechanics to inner realm.
The new target must be in the warzone. So the warzone must be modified. The capture mechanics would have to change and terrain adjusted. Battlements adjusted and some added to keep things spicy and the reward system will have to be modified to suit this new system.

[fotomay]

Let take another look.

1 and 2. I don't understand how you intend to apply a foreign player. As far as I see it, the game seems to have the special races coded (flagged) to realms....

well, typical in coding for mmos - every character is flagged to a particular race and realm. The game may then apply appearance based on that race.

I suspect instead of adjusting for a race flag, in this highly speculative random login idea of mine, i think and hope all you would have to do is adjust for realm flag. So if your character is flagged for a different realm then you can enter and interact with at least the portals of that realm.

But you are right, it does depend on how the character files and interactions for Regnum is set up. The above is how we coded the neverwinter mods for team pvp.


This then leads to a situation where players may need to cash in quests inner realm. That negates making it flag to only warzone and as such the coding has make sure a player can enter the inner area to cash in and do other transactions.

As above, I'm hopeful that each character is flagged according to realm. So changing the realm flag on a character may be a fast way to allow all of this. I can imagine Adrian or the devs pointing out that it just isn't possible, in which case this discussion is moot, but I appreciate the discussion and respect their guidance anyway.


Which then means that you can't have diversity by realms based on race because it simply won't make sense. Thus, there shall be no diversity....

There is a fantasy novel called Another Fine Myth by Robert Asprin. The separate realms in that novel are populated by visitors from all realms, in colourful locations called Bazaars. So one idea is to have players who are logged in away from their home realm, be tourists/visitors in the foreign realm.


Note that all this breaks because you intend to balance by level 50+ players yet at the same time, have players below 50 bound to a realm and expect them to fight and build loyalty for a realm from as low as level 25. You then expect them to drop all that and the loyalties built up in favour of random login to realms to which they may have no allegiance.

I think the future playerbase of Regnum will not adhere to the idea of realm loyalty as much as the earlier players of regnum. Particularly given the plethora of games like LoL and other mobas. What does worry me is whether just balancing lvl50+ numbers will produce any real balance? It may not. But i suspect it may be an improvement on what we have now.


3. If the drops on bosses were equitable and more common, maybe. It is far simpler and less damaging from a PR position to level cap the current ones and make a few new ones for higher levels to wear. Time limiting rare/ semi -rare items in a game is a very bad idea.

Under a random allocation on login approach, I still don't understand how boss items would have an impact (since the user of the boss item can have his realm switched also). Also I haven't fully understood why time limiting boss items would not be a good idea.


4. Cross realm clans in this game ? Name one. Show me how they shared skills and improved the game. Show me how they worked. ...
A cross realm clan would be for itself and not a realm. ..

No.. not in Regnum, in other team pvp fantasy and other mmos. So in for example in Neverwinter we had clan say "TDK" which would fight on both sides of the war, and would share strategies on how to beat each other or the opposing realm in combat.


5 and 7. This game I doubt has probability distributions.....The probability is simply that the drop rate is so scarce that you are shepherded towards buying premium boxes in order to compete....

that's bad. without a distribution curve, mmo devs would have lost control of drop rates. u cud be right. it wud be a seriously bad situation for NGD. (but it shouldnt be hard to rebuild an excel spreadsheet based on the games data files of player's inventories)

So anyway, I log into my low level toon which I have packed up with gold... Realms may be balanced but I have now hijacked the systems so that I can sell to the highest bidder thus causing an imbalanced flow

mm.. even if low level toons hoarded good items and sold them out, the lvl50+ buyers would still be randomly allocated across realms, meaning the items would also be randomly allocated out.


Re: Upon random login, you automatically move to the side of battle based on map presentation :-

8. I get you. You discount the whole human factor. It is irrelevant for you . But then, that is what this game is about and you fail to understand this. As a matter of fact, it is what keeps this game intact....

hm... you could be right, but i still suspect that a future playerbase is less interested in having to be loyal to one realm and more interested in just getting more and faster action. While Camelot Unchained is suggesting a return to DAOC, the number of mobas suggests there is a preference for players towards more intense "balance" combat.

The target playerbase would then just be people who want to login for 20 minutes, fight intensely for those 20 minutes and logout, without needing to bother too much about niceties of chat or realm loyalties. As Aari i think suggested it may be an issue of what kind of playerbase is being targeted.

8a. I just fought for a week of malus for Ignis, next login I am in Ignis. I am level 51. ... Oh and it is not random as you eliminate the option of logging into your previous realm no matter the number situation . Woot! You just hijacked your own system from random to Kinda random.

What is this "malus" you speak of? ... >< Sorry, not sure what it is. Last time I had malus used in an mmo context, was a time malus or delay on recasting a particular spell.

The random element will only permit you to relogin back into your home realm at a time when it is in fact, one of the two lowest populated realms. So yes, it is possible you may not return if your login timezone is always at a time when your home realm turns out to be the highest pop.

8b. I would like to see you watch an army "randomly" shuffled for numbers only and be on the opposing side of a group disproportionately composed of ultra geared Barbs, Conjus and marks mostly level 60.

You can never have perfect balance. But from a general observation, having balanced realm numbers is better than what we sometimes have now with heavy imbalanced zergs.

It also does depend on how the playerbase adjusts. When we started out with random allocation on login in our old mmo, it was clear there were situations when all the good/best players would suddenly appear on one realm by chance. It forced the lesser realm to learn to fight harder. It forced the newer players on the lesser realm to figure out how to fight as a team. What we found is that the newer players grew to appreciate the challenge.

As mentioned above, I would strongly encourage the availability of a realm "kidnap" option as this encourages newer players to focus their weaker efforts on bringing own a strong enemy player in the hope of "recruiting" him to their side. Provided their realm kept being the lower populated realm.

8c. Are you actually suggesting shuffle after death? I just broke my back fighting , died and for nothing because I went elsewhere ? .... If my random team is losing , pretty easy to log off and play the login game to end up on the winning side.

Under the "kidnap" idea, if you are a strong player, and you allow yourself to die too much, then yes it is possible you can be switched if you are on a higher populated realm.

If your randomly composed realm is losing, and you try to login to get on the winning realm, you will not be able to switch to the wining realm unless that winning realm has a lower population than your present losing realm. If you are switched, you will probably end up having to fight harder anyway...

Also keep in mind, if you relog out of the highest populated realm to switch, you do not have a choice of which two least populated realms you end up on because the random login would choose between the two lower populated realms. Bit chancy really.

8d. Literally everything you do will have a knock on impact on the inner realms. (much of it not good) ...... you simply don't seem to get human psychology. ...because you think your idea is brilliant.

hm.. you could be correct most of the effect is psychological in the inner realm. A pvp mmo should set up the tools for players to go out and have fun "balanced" wars. No one should ever feel the need to log out because their side has "no hope". I suspect this is what is happening now and this is why I am trying to make that suggestion.

I wish my idea was brilliant. But it is only an idea and definitely may not be suited or acceptable. But it is just an idea to compare notes on. I don't mind if Regnum rejects it all, or adopts it or adopts elements of it.

So, as you insulate the warzone from the inner, ...you must eliminate all invasion mechanics to inner realm.


I don't see any need to change invasion mechanics under a random login + kidnap scheme...? A player who has been switched to a different realm can travel to his new realms inner zone, but cannot travel to his previous home realm's inner zone (unless under invasion) or safe zone. I am hopeful each character has a realm flag set on it in the character file, but certainly if this is not the case then it cud be more complex.

hm.. i feel much of the discussion is about communicating how the system works. And I think I am slowly learning how your side works as well. Somewhere in the middle hopefully some useful ideas for NGD arise.

Personaly i don't like and i will never accept to login other realm. If NGD will random distribute me in a realm i will delete game instantly.

definitely. the idea may not be suited to Regnum's community at all.

[84victor]

fotomay, just make a poll which will show how community interested in your idea of random login lol
until some of devs response about your idea are like writing on water ;)

[Linuxmage]

What is this "malus" you speak of? ... >< Sorry, not sure what it is. Last time I had malus used in an mmo context, was a time malus or delay on recasting a particular spell.

One of the wishes from the dragon can be -xp or -gold for an entire week on an enemy realm.

[fotomay]

fotomay, just make a poll which will show how community interested in your idea of random login lol
until some of devs response about your idea are like writing on water ;)

it's ok. i was responding more just so that the idea can be explained more clearly. i think ive answered it as much as i can for now. if the devs/community like it they can use it or modify it. im afraid forum polls are not always an accurate indication of support for an idea.

One of the wishes from the dragon can be -xp or -gold for an entire week on an enemy realm.

oya.. well, under the general idea of random allocation, the malus wud not need to be changed. so once you switch realms, you would carry the malus of the realm you switched to. im hopeful the coding for realm allocation just requires thata variable flag be set in each character's file, and then everything wud flow from that.

[Tamui]

im afraid forum polls are not always an accurate indication of support for an idea.


Only when the poll itself is biased.

[bois]

He would not bring a poll. If he does, I am pretty sure it will be totally defeated.

Simply ask the question based on the acceptance of the kidnap idea and random login idea in the context of the game as a whole in a (yes/no/ other : state reason) format and let us see where the chips fall.

The irony is that Fotomay is constantly asking questions of the community like a reporter for Fox....

[84victor]

it's ok. i was responding more just so that the idea can be explained more clearly.
aye, you clearly shown that you aren't aware of ingame community and ingame mechanincs, and yet continue to clarify to community your idea of random login (no offence, but bois cleary shown it)

[fotomay]

aye, you clearly shown that you aren't aware of ingame community and ingame mechanincs, and yet continue to clarify to community your idea of random login (no offence, but bois cleary shown it)

no.. it's perfectly fine for bois to be correct. i was just trying to explain my idea >< certainly didn't mean to step on toes. but i do still think it is a good idea !

keep in mind, that just because an mmo has a stable player base from the past, may not mean that is available base on which to grow the game. the potential incoming player base may change. bois and you guys do sound upset though, so.. yea.

forum polls may not be fully representative of what would be the best solution for a game. i feel certain a poll on the question would be downvoted by the past playerbase but i suspect the newer potential playerbase would not vote.

finally -- like i said, yes it would be a new game format and i would only recommend it proceed on a test server.

[84victor]

fotomay, last question: are you in clan or clanless?

[bois]

It is only from an abundance of time spent and experiences gained that I come to my position.

The thing is that those experiences have an advantage on you for the simple reason that I have historical facts and evidence to back up my positions rather than your suppositions based on a "potential" new player base that may or may not yet be realised. Your theorems are in the realm of "untested" as regards to this game. My theorems are grounded in, and guided by historical fact over an extended period of time.
As they say, if you fail to learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it.

I think it would be kinda obvious that a new "potential" playerbase can't vote because they are 'potential' and don't actually exist yet on the database with which they are then eligible to vote.
New players are usually not aware of this forum. I will admit that. However, a really new player can only vote based on their experiences from other places simply because they just got here and don't know this game. As such, bias may imply flawed voting as well.
Basically, that is where you find yourself Fotomay. All I ask is that you study all elements of this game objectively and thoroughly before bringing grand solutions. You are yet to impress on me that you have done so.

(likewise I have a pal that plays NWN. I am hoping to get him to go through it with me in agonising detail)


I have seen many come and go and in many cases, know why the base got eroded. I also know that quite a few of that base looks in on the game every once in a while for what we like to call "that update" .

I think NGD once mentioned that they have a database of 1 million plus accounts. Many are duplicate but quite a lot are on the sidelines. Should NGD strike it right, you would see quite a few of those lost players making a comeback. The original game NGD designed is that addictive. I am not quite sure you would be able to understand why.

So it is not just about a new player-base. It is about a reservoir of older players as well. Players that know the game and can add value both in player quality and word of mouth advertisement . A new volatile player-base is not going to give you that. It will just be massive turnover of base with mediocre growth and potential bad press should NGD make a technical mistake.
Steam was just such an example.
Server to the US and than the merger.
The merger with Tyr.

History.

[fotomay]

it's good that you guys strongly believe in the knowledge of observation and thinking acquired over the long past.

but.. i just can't see the strong cohesive realm-centered playerbase, which has underpinned CoR for many years, growing in the size of GW2, WoW or L2. Maybe.. maybe if we had like 10 servers each woth 500-1,000 players each. So duplicates of what we have now. Maybe with all the improvements we want to grinding and bug-free. But even if we have that, I think each realm will continually fracture after six months, and the player base will shrink because of discomfort with zerginess. I guess that is one of the key reasons why i feel a template shift is needed.

Personally, I would like to see CoR as big as DAOC/L2 (maybe at least the 500k-1 million player mark?). I can't quite see it with the present realm loyalty template.

It is only from an abundance of time spent and experiences gained that I come to my position.

The thing is that those experiences have an advantage on you for the simple reason that I have historical facts and evidence to back up my positions rather than your suppositions based on a "potential" new player base that may or may not yet be realised. Your theorems are in the realm of "untested" as regards to this game. My theorems are grounded in, and guided by historical fact over an extended period of time. ..

i think it is good to be knowledgeable about the past, but i think you have to be cautious that your logic is not determined by preconceived concepts or causal relationships which have no hard scientific basis. If something cannot exist, no matter how much detail you put into correcting it, it won't arrive. With regard to the playerbase, all we have at the moment are manly psychological "proofs".

but.. i can admit that the deep knowledge is important and I think I am lacking in it. Maybe over time I will learn more. Be careful not to alienate or denigrade fresh players who arrive and offer to help, even if they do not know the past.