A general discussion about clan banks without complaining

eerO · 04-10-2010, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Egg

I can kind of see where NGD is coming from on this, I mean, clan banks could be classed as against the rules anyway...

And clan banks tend to be shared accounts...

Aww c'mon! Look at the facts. Almost everybody on RA has a double account, so why should they care about the clan stashes? The clan stashes exist almost as long as this game does and it has become a part of it.

Seriously, this is just another way to get some money. Destroy the clanbanks so the ppl have to buy this premium stash shit. Really. If a normal player is overburned, he sells the items and thats it. So that was made to destroy the clanbanks.

I for myself will sell all the shitty stuff out of our clanbanks and hold the useful stuff, i mean, my clan was putting every shit in the banks, so ill just clean it up a bit, but i still think the banks will be overburned after that.

Mr_Egg · 04-11-2010, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eerO

Aww c'mon! Look at the facts. Almost everybody on RA has a double account, so why should they care about the clan stashes? The clan stashes exist almost as long as this game does and it has become a part of it.

Lol, I know, loads and loads and loads of people have more than one account - I mean, look at the players that play all 3 realms, and pretty much everyone who has more than 3 chars is doing it on 2 accounts, and then on top of that there's banks and stuff.

All I'm saying is that I see where the reason would be, if it's against the ToU in the first place.

survive · 04-12-2010, 06:30 AM

the main problem I find is the oversite of NGD in discussing/nottifying us of this change before hand, to allow for the emptying/selling/spring cleaning of clan banks ahead of the update. This has created a HUGE inconvinence for clan leaders, who NGD wish to purchase more premium product.

secondly... 5 Account stash spaces... and 15 char.... really? that is it from the start? 5..... it is laughable if it was not so damn annoying

bois · 04-12-2010, 03:33 PM

I expect to be flamed for this.

Personally I saw no need for any discussion or notification for this feature which I happen to agree with. As far as I know, clan banks have been in existence since my entry into the game and has become a sort of pseudo feature. However, this feature was never designed or sanctioned by NGD in any way. It just so happened that players and clans found a way to fill a design gap left by NGD. It could be argued that by not dealing with bank accounts , NGD set a precedent for it but, with lack of resources and interesting names clans give banks, this may prove too difficult to do. For this reason I see no need for consultation.

I am sorry everyone. I run a fairly small clan in which I tend to do a lot of housekeeping and as such , the problem of overloaded banks, choked with stuff never arose. I cannot imagine how bad it would be for the large ones but, they tend to have a large organisational structure which should be able to handle such outcomes. I try my utmost to either

A: sell off or give away the crap. I sell for gold mainly and at rates not much higher than the merchants .I use the gold I collect from sales to support my poorer members.

B: Hold on to the best items and make sure they circulate among clan members equitably. I allow members to sell of low/mid level specials if they are strapped for cash. I sometimes even give away magical for free.
In such a formula , I never really have any problems.

The issue I see here (bring on the flame) is that many clan banks are either poorly managed or are so badly choked up with tons of stuff that the clans are totally against releasing into the environment so, they just remain in the bank rotting "just in case" some possible future member might have a slight need for it.
Added to this is that some clans that do sell outside their clan offer such expensive trades that either the free play gamers have to become magnanite slaves, or grind junkies to keep up. The Ximerin players have to become lucky box addicts in the hope that they drop a magic or epic item worthy of trade.

Compounding this is the fact of a non existent economy which is driven by the semi rare element magnanite which replaced the gold as legal tender. Actually there is so much gold about that its value is negligible.

On top of all of this is the woeful state of the entire clan system which needs a total retooling.

To top it all off , there is no functional or reasonable way to trade in this game so many players in need have no viable forum with which to get or barter for the stuff they need. Many a time I see players in need and post in the chat for stuff. Often times it is
A: unanswered
B: unavailable because The player that might have it is offline, it is too expensive, player has nothing worthy to trade or reserved in banks.

The thing is , every time NGD installs a single feature it just opens a Pandora's box of problems that always existed but was pushed off the front burner. All the problems that all the above posters listed always existed , it is just now back on the burning edge again.

Solutions: None that would satisfy the majority. Like many things , this ecosystem is intertwined and installing one thing usually leads to destabilizing something else. Gaps or weakness in the system become glaring.
There are two suggestions that would go a long way and was mentioned above. A new chat channel for trade should be installed as a temporary measure. I say temporary because it will be choked with spam soon enough anyway and lose viability.
Meanwhile , they could start the framework of a comprehensive trading system. The suggestions forum is awash with ideas there. I am sure even a basic system would be welcome.

At the end of the day, again I am sorry but I agree with the way NGD implemented this. If hoarding is the desire then it should come with a cost.

It is working already. I am seeing banks and players already liquidating their repositories and allowing items back into the space.
To look at the chat is so funny and probably a little obscene. I can't imagine banks/players would not distribute stuff with +1 fire resist and +3 blunt to their realm mates and rather stock pile that stuff. Really.

Regards
Artec

Malik2 · 04-13-2010, 04:45 AM

I both agree and disagree with Artec. I agree that this change has exposed a weakness in the clan system and all of his points regarding to that.

Some syrtis clans my be selling some stuff or liquidating. That is not what we are doing. Actually we are trying to formulate a plan for what we are going to do. Arwen is right multiple banks are a nightmare, even more of a nightmare than the current system.

I also disagree with Artec with the idea that clan banks are full of low bonus junk. The TWC and Inq and other clans pooled resources to get magna weapons. Looking at my clan banks inventory, I figure we could probably chuck about 1/2 maybe 2/3 and be shedding some very good items. But even if we did that the remaining would be very very good items and the banks still overburdened.

Even so, we had banked those items to help our lower level members, this is one of the bonuses of being in a clan, in any clan. That is a service that we can no longer provide.

The vast majority of drops I get, have nothing to do with me or my class. I know there are others in my clan that can benefit, I'd rather bank it than spam realm chat or clan chat with offers to sell or simply try give it away. Really I'd give these items I find to anyone for free (except certai individuals who would only use them for thier own entrichment)...but at present there is simply no way to do so.

bois · 04-13-2010, 02:01 PM

Hence I was quite careful with my words. Several Veteran clans would be expected to have quite a treasure trove of stuff that they would consider keeping. For such a reason I did not say ALL clans. I would expect that such establishments would have a good structure to deal with such eventualities.

I feel for those clans that have to jettison items of quality for mid and low level players however, the decent drop rate at those levels suggests that it would be prudent to support first, your clan and then distribute the rest to your realm. Keeping only very, very good epics, magical and really rare specials (6 and 7% bonuses)would not pose as much a problem then.

I am not too sure about your point about Magnanite weapons and its reference to banks. Personally, I would expect that Magnanite weapons, Dragon items and Super Boss items will all be in use by the clan members at all times and such the idea of them being in banks should not arise. If those items are in banks and not in the hands of players then something is clearly wrong. If it is so then clan comes above Realm and we may be seeing the birth of something unpalatable. Maybe I understand you wrong.

I apologise if I suggested that banks carry a lot of low bonus items. I actually meant player private banks for that. Clan banks however, have a lot of mid quality to good items that by no means rare and should be either sold off or distributed to keep what little economy there is functioning. Larger clans could be reasonably expected to have more active players and as such more grinders. This in turn means they should have a constant supply of fresh items coming into banks. If this is indeed the case then most of the mid to good quality items could and should be in the space for use.

I suppose the situation for most banks will be a process of inventory housekeeping with a keen eye to stock assessment leading to reductions, distributions and clan bank efficiency improvements.
At the end of the day , I am yet to see an argument that would convince me that this system as implemented is not in the best interest of the whole game . I always keep an open mind though.

Nekoko · 04-14-2010, 12:00 AM

The bank issue is more of a problem for new players than old ones, why? Simply people are going to get rid of low level stuff first. They're not going to hunt around fields looking for some new person they can give it away to. I think everyone will do what I do, hello merchant 25k of gold...

This hits the low levelers and the people starting out...

04-12-2010, 06:30 AM	#3
survive Apprentice Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Louisiana Posts: 75	the main problem I find is the oversite of NGD in discussing/nottifying us of this change before hand, to allow for the emptying/selling/spring cleaning of clan banks ahead of the update. This has created a HUGE inconvinence for clan leaders, who NGD wish to purchase more premium product. secondly... 5 Account stash spaces... and 15 char.... really? that is it from the start? 5..... it is laughable if it was not so damn annoying __________________ Gringo de Magnifico - RA \| Rumple Foreskin - Horus/Raven - Pack of Bastards -

04-13-2010, 04:45 AM	#5
Malik2 Initiate Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 219	I both agree and disagree with Artec. I agree that this change has exposed a weakness in the clan system and all of his points regarding to that. Some syrtis clans my be selling some stuff or liquidating. That is not what we are doing. Actually we are trying to formulate a plan for what we are going to do. Arwen is right multiple banks are a nightmare, even more of a nightmare than the current system. I also disagree with Artec with the idea that clan banks are full of low bonus junk. The TWC and Inq and other clans pooled resources to get magna weapons. Looking at my clan banks inventory, I figure we could probably chuck about 1/2 maybe 2/3 and be shedding some very good items. But even if we did that the remaining would be very very good items and the banks still overburdened. Even so, we had banked those items to help our lower level members, this is one of the bonuses of being in a clan, in any clan. That is a service that we can no longer provide. The vast majority of drops I get, have nothing to do with me or my class. I know there are others in my clan that can benefit, I'd rather bank it than spam realm chat or clan chat with offers to sell or simply try give it away. Really I'd give these items I find to anyone for free (except certai individuals who would only use them for thier own entrichment)...but at present there is simply no way to do so. __________________ Ulixes Wolfhair Hunter of Syrtis...Horus and Ra- The White Company

04-14-2010, 12:00 AM	#7
Nekoko Master Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 334	The bank issue is more of a problem for new players than old ones, why? Simply people are going to get rid of low level stuff first. They're not going to hunt around fields looking for some new person they can give it away to. I think everyone will do what I do, hello merchant 25k of gold... This hits the low levelers and the people starting out... __________________ A Dream.

04-12-2010, 03:33 PM	#4
bois Count Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trinidad and Tobago Posts: 1,194	I expect to be flamed for this. Personally I saw no need for any discussion or notification for this feature which I happen to agree with. As far as I know, clan banks have been in existence since my entry into the game and has become a sort of pseudo feature. However, this feature was never designed or sanctioned by NGD in any way. It just so happened that players and clans found a way to fill a design gap left by NGD. It could be argued that by not dealing with bank accounts , NGD set a precedent for it but, with lack of resources and interesting names clans give banks, this may prove too difficult to do. For this reason I see no need for consultation. I am sorry everyone. I run a fairly small clan in which I tend to do a lot of housekeeping and as such , the problem of overloaded banks, choked with stuff never arose. I cannot imagine how bad it would be for the large ones but, they tend to have a large organisational structure which should be able to handle such outcomes. I try my utmost to either A: sell off or give away the crap. I sell for gold mainly and at rates not much higher than the merchants .I use the gold I collect from sales to support my poorer members. B: Hold on to the best items and make sure they circulate among clan members equitably. I allow members to sell of low/mid level specials if they are strapped for cash. I sometimes even give away magical for free. In such a formula , I never really have any problems. The issue I see here (bring on the flame) is that many clan banks are either poorly managed or are so badly choked up with tons of stuff that the clans are totally against releasing into the environment so, they just remain in the bank rotting "just in case" some possible future member might have a slight need for it. Added to this is that some clans that do sell outside their clan offer such expensive trades that either the free play gamers have to become magnanite slaves, or grind junkies to keep up. The Ximerin players have to become lucky box addicts in the hope that they drop a magic or epic item worthy of trade. Compounding this is the fact of a non existent economy which is driven by the semi rare element magnanite which replaced the gold as legal tender. Actually there is so much gold about that its value is negligible. On top of all of this is the woeful state of the entire clan system which needs a total retooling. To top it all off , there is no functional or reasonable way to trade in this game so many players in need have no viable forum with which to get or barter for the stuff they need. Many a time I see players in need and post in the chat for stuff. Often times it is A: unanswered B: unavailable because The player that might have it is offline, it is too expensive, player has nothing worthy to trade or reserved in banks. The thing is , every time NGD installs a single feature it just opens a Pandora's box of problems that always existed but was pushed off the front burner. All the problems that all the above posters listed always existed , it is just now back on the burning edge again. Solutions: None that would satisfy the majority. Like many things , this ecosystem is intertwined and installing one thing usually leads to destabilizing something else. Gaps or weakness in the system become glaring. There are two suggestions that would go a long way and was mentioned above. A new chat channel for trade should be installed as a temporary measure. I say temporary because it will be choked with spam soon enough anyway and lose viability. Meanwhile , they could start the framework of a comprehensive trading system. The suggestions forum is awash with ideas there. I am sure even a basic system would be welcome. At the end of the day, again I am sorry but I agree with the way NGD implemented this. If hoarding is the desire then it should come with a cost. It is working already. I am seeing banks and players already liquidating their repositories and allowing items back into the space. To look at the chat is so funny and probably a little obscene. I can't imagine banks/players would not distribute stuff with +1 fire resist and +3 blunt to their realm mates and rather stock pile that stuff. Really. Regards Artec

04-13-2010, 02:01 PM	#6
bois Count Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trinidad and Tobago Posts: 1,194	Hence I was quite careful with my words. Several Veteran clans would be expected to have quite a treasure trove of stuff that they would consider keeping. For such a reason I did not say ALL clans. I would expect that such establishments would have a good structure to deal with such eventualities. I feel for those clans that have to jettison items of quality for mid and low level players however, the decent drop rate at those levels suggests that it would be prudent to support first, your clan and then distribute the rest to your realm. Keeping only very, very good epics, magical and really rare specials (6 and 7% bonuses)would not pose as much a problem then. I am not too sure about your point about Magnanite weapons and its reference to banks. Personally, I would expect that Magnanite weapons, Dragon items and Super Boss items will all be in use by the clan members at all times and such the idea of them being in banks should not arise. If those items are in banks and not in the hands of players then something is clearly wrong. If it is so then clan comes above Realm and we may be seeing the birth of something unpalatable. Maybe I understand you wrong. I apologise if I suggested that banks carry a lot of low bonus items. I actually meant player private banks for that. Clan banks however, have a lot of mid quality to good items that by no means rare and should be either sold off or distributed to keep what little economy there is functioning. Larger clans could be reasonably expected to have more active players and as such more grinders. This in turn means they should have a constant supply of fresh items coming into banks. If this is indeed the case then most of the mid to good quality items could and should be in the space for use. I suppose the situation for most banks will be a process of inventory housekeeping with a keen eye to stock assessment leading to reductions, distributions and clan bank efficiency improvements. At the end of the day , I am yet to see an argument that would convince me that this system as implemented is not in the best interest of the whole game . I always keep an open mind though.