what is ballance?

metsie · 09-06-2010, 01:33 AM

IMO balance is many things.

1. Better/more skilled player wins worse/less skilled player usually, not because he/enemy gets lucky with resists/evades

2. some classes will be stronger than others, so in pvp there is no "true" balance between all classes

3. in rvsr group with all classes combined should have good chance to win against equal sized group that does not have all classes included

system should be "best/strongest survives", not everybody can win with luck and random events. If bad player wins too easily then he/she wont ever need to really try and learn to play better.

4. some are just better than others, so if somebody has 100% chance to win because of his playing SKILLS thats part of "balance" too

so to me balance = system that allows stronger one to survive+be good and allows weaker ones to learn to be stronger.

Truewar · 09-06-2010, 04:14 AM

Don`t forget. Regnum is RvR game.

IMAO Regnum will be ballanced when realm with mostly warrior population, realm with mostely mages population and realm with mostely archers population will have same chances to win if they have ~same amount of players.

Question about buffs is groundless. I like warrior`s subclasses and I always rely on passive powers, instant spells and buffs. I know that other players rely on auras, buffs etc.

And that is advantage of regnum. Everyone... well... alomost everyone can found his own style of playing. Ballance in your vision looks like everyone have same setup, similar spells etc.

I think that upcoming update will be great step up for regnum.( Thanks NGD ). And well... I am sure: not last update.

Znurre · 09-06-2010, 05:33 AM

For me, balance is when the players that puts the most effort into their gameplay wins, regardless of class.
For example, let's take an army with all classes, that manages to cooperate beyond the class border and knows each class weaknesses and strengths, utilizes a big collection of spells to help each other and to make impact to the fight in several different scenarios.
In my perfect word they should win versus an army of the same size with only warlocks that are only throwing stacking terrors, simply because that does not require nearly as much player skill, planning or cooperation as in the first case.

Or, another example, a ninja hunter using tricks (excluding confuse

) who can manage to kill someone without running away by using tactical skills like retalliation, distracting shot, ambush, hinder etc.
He should win versus another hunter only relying on buffing his pet and sending it on his opponent to let it make all the job for him.

Getting killed by an opponent in a fight where you feel he did not play as good as you, but you still lost, is what makes me pissed.
I can take getting killed by another player, but only if this player really played better, more versatile, knew how to move better, used other skills etc, so that I can improve.

Bringing up the scenario with the old UM (the one live currently) a barbarian vs barbarian fight usually consisted of only buffing and rushing at each other trying to just kill each other as fast as possible.
In such a scenario there is no room for player skills, and that's why it's devastating for balance.

Just my point of view.

Barya · 09-06-2010, 07:59 AM

"Balance" is:
1) When all average life durations of all classes are equal (resurrect is +1 life).
2) All positions on map are appreciable (in team), including starting position. Is that fort, open, escape...
3) All rp gaining amounts are nearly same, i.e. in first 30 rp rating places are 5x6.

For example, Warcraft III 1v1 game Race balance:
1) All races are possible to grow until second stage.
2) All positions for build the town are appreciable, mastery decides but not map. There is some deviations, for example fountain maps more liked by orcs with good health, but that is not win factor.
3) There is all races in first places on championships.

Regnum:
1) Warriors - average low life duration, because of it ends occasionaly by not resisted/dispelled knock/immob. Almost impossible to escape from hot fight, survive hot battle only by win.
Mages/Archers - infinite life duration, i.e. till full team got eliminated. Variable possibilities to escape, from the best to average.
2) Warriors are stuck to group or fort. Impossible to play without range team.
But full range team cannot capture fort easy (not a big deal when enemy has only rangers too).
3) 7 warriors in first 30 rp rating. 11 Hunters, 6 Marsmen, 6 Mages. (Ra)

View Poll Results: what is ballance (first read the story) and is this ballance update done?
a equal ammount of buffs, casting time, effectness to al classes...	8	28.57%
what the ballance update brings us is ballance	5	17.86%
2 buffs for one clas 8 buffs for the other	3	10.71%
a unbuffed fight between 2 diffrent classes should end up in a 50/50% win percentage	8	28.57%
a fight that ends up 50/50% win chance no matters that person A. casts 4 buffs more then person B.	5	17.86%
none of these options, please post your ballance opinion	13	46.43%
Yes	4	14.29%
No, there still needs some nerfs/rethinking about buffs/ballance	12	42.86%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

09-06-2010, 04:14 AM	#2
Truewar Master Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kriegsplatz 6, Hopstad Alsius Ra Posts: 291	Don`t forget. Regnum is RvR game. IMAO Regnum will be ballanced when realm with mostly warrior population, realm with mostely mages population and realm with mostely archers population will have same chances to win if they have ~same amount of players. Question about buffs is groundless. I like warrior`s subclasses and I always rely on passive powers, instant spells and buffs. I know that other players rely on auras, buffs etc. And that is advantage of regnum. Everyone... well... alomost everyone can found his own style of playing. Ballance in your vision looks like everyone have same setup, similar spells etc. I think that upcoming update will be great step up for regnum.( Thanks NGD ). And well... I am sure: not last update. __________________ Truewar The Knightmare

09-06-2010, 05:33 AM	#3
Znurre Marquis Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: RA Posts: 1,897	For me, balance is when the players that puts the most effort into their gameplay wins, regardless of class. For example, let's take an army with all classes, that manages to cooperate beyond the class border and knows each class weaknesses and strengths, utilizes a big collection of spells to help each other and to make impact to the fight in several different scenarios. In my perfect word they should win versus an army of the same size with only warlocks that are only throwing stacking terrors, simply because that does not require nearly as much player skill, planning or cooperation as in the first case. Or, another example, a ninja hunter using tricks (excluding confuse ) who can manage to kill someone without running away by using tactical skills like retalliation, distracting shot, ambush, hinder etc. He should win versus another hunter only relying on buffing his pet and sending it on his opponent to let it make all the job for him. Getting killed by an opponent in a fight where you feel he did not play as good as you, but you still lost, is what makes me pissed. I can take getting killed by another player, but only if this player really played better, more versatile, knew how to move better, used other skills etc, so that I can improve. Bringing up the scenario with the old UM (the one live currently) a barbarian vs barbarian fight usually consisted of only buffing and rushing at each other trying to just kill each other as fast as possible. In such a scenario there is no room for player skills, and that's why it's devastating for balance. Just my point of view. __________________ Winning a fight is not what makes you a good player, it's how you do it. http://home.znur.re/screenshot%20201...2011_39_37.jpg

09-06-2010, 07:59 AM	#4
Barya Apprentice Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 68	"Balance" is: 1) When all average life durations of all classes are equal (resurrect is +1 life). 2) All positions on map are appreciable (in team), including starting position. Is that fort, open, escape... 3) All rp gaining amounts are nearly same, i.e. in first 30 rp rating places are 5x6. For example, Warcraft III 1v1 game Race balance: 1) All races are possible to grow until second stage. 2) All positions for build the town are appreciable, mastery decides but not map. There is some deviations, for example fountain maps more liked by orcs with good health, but that is not win factor. 3) There is all races in first places on championships. Regnum: 1) Warriors - average low life duration, because of it ends occasionaly by not resisted/dispelled knock/immob. Almost impossible to escape from hot fight, survive hot battle only by win. Mages/Archers - infinite life duration, i.e. till full team got eliminated. Variable possibilities to escape, from the best to average. 2) Warriors are stuck to group or fort. Impossible to play without range team. But full range team cannot capture fort easy (not a big deal when enemy has only rangers too). 3) 7 warriors in first 30 rp rating. 11 Hunters, 6 Marsmen, 6 Mages. (Ra) Last edited by Barya; 09-06-2010 at 08:24 AM.

09-06-2010, 01:33 AM	#1
metsie Apprentice Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 59	IMO balance is many things. 1. Better/more skilled player wins worse/less skilled player usually, not because he/enemy gets lucky with resists/evades 2. some classes will be stronger than others, so in pvp there is no "true" balance between all classes 3. in rvsr group with all classes combined should have good chance to win against equal sized group that does not have all classes included system should be "best/strongest survives", not everybody can win with luck and random events. If bad player wins too easily then he/she wont ever need to really try and learn to play better. 4. some are just better than others, so if somebody has 100% chance to win because of his playing SKILLS thats part of "balance" too so to me balance = system that allows stronger one to survive+be good and allows weaker ones to learn to be stronger.