New Balance Update: some BUG fixes and tweaks (Stage 5)

[UmarilsStillHere]

Originally Posted by Gallus

The point is why should a barb should be impossible only for marks to stop, while all other classes has ways to do it?

You have slow down spells such as Lightning arrow/caltrops a cannot attack spell (stun fist) so it is not 'impossibe' for you to outlast Um.

And as we are looking at this in the very smallest rvr way 2v2 (since you say the barb will have ons I assume there are 2 barbs, since it dosnt effect caster) so you could have a barb with you to deal out damage, or a warlock to buy time or a knight to significantly lower the barbs damage etc etc ...

2v2 is to small for balance anyway, the smallest group balance should be worked with is 6v6 with one of every class. In which case your group has all the tools in the world to stop a barb.

[Topogigio_BR]

Originally Posted by Umaril

You have slow down spells such as Lightning arrow/caltrops a cannot attack spell (stun fist) so it is not 'impossibe' for you to outlast Um.

And as we are looking at this in the very smallest rvr way 2v2 (since you say the barb will have ons I assume there are 2 barbs, since it dosnt effect caster) so you could have a barb with you to deal out damage, or a warlock to buy time or a knight to significantly lower the barbs damage etc etc ...

2v2 is to small for balance anyway, the smallest group balance should be worked with is 6v6 with one of every class. In which case your group has all the tools in the world to stop a barb.

In this case scenario umaril you are again reducing marks to a support only class, as much ppl in this game cant deal with marks doing even 1/4 of a barbs damage.
So marks should only dizzy the locks with bows, and try to slow down barbs with lightning.
I can deal with the fact that marks dont have enough speed to run from a barb, if i have enough damage to kill one without needing 20 shots.

[_Enio_]

ngd just pushed the ratio towards melee a bit now. Created more situations you cannot counter well. The dynamics in fight remained untouched. The barb still doesnt need any brain to win or lose while approaching a target. He remains without influence on it. Sounds fun eh? for sure..

[theotherhiveking]

Maybe you should change UM instead, providing full inmunity for short times(~10), with a lower cooldown, casting and cost.

So (at least the barbarian) as a way to 'counter' stuff, and the other guys dont need to outlast anything.

We all know UM is a shitty skill, sure, the effects are great, but the effect, the huge cooldowns and casting just encourage you to use it , charge, hit something twice and back off to wait for the skill to be available again...
It just encourages passive and sluggish gameplay.

Plus, cc arent half as lethal now with the new damages.

[Kyrottimus]

Originally Posted by _Enio_

...The barb still doesnt need any brain to win or lose while approaching a target. He remains without influence on it.

+1

You'll get no arguments from me on that one. There are so few options to play as a barb.

You either play one way, and might do ok if the RNG is on his side. Or you can play any other possible way and die horribly every single time. That points to a great disparity in versatility and functional, tactical purpose in the class, IMO.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Originally Posted by Gallus

reducing marks to a support only class

Chilko not long ago said something to this effect (cba to go dig up the acctual quote)

Originally Posted by Chilko

Marks should be ranged support, not long range killing machines

Marks are a supporting part of an army, not a killing machine, you can skill in a damage/cc-support way to play well as part of a group. Or you can keep trying to play something which your class is not, a solo single target nuke machine.

Yes in 1v1 vs certain class's you will struggle, but who dosnt? Once you start working with other class's in RvR you are fine.

In the current balance ranged damage is to high, and the 'CC-support' thing gets lost because one or two ranged class can not only hold, but kill a target before the barb gets any of his own hits in.

A barb needs UM to get anywhere near a ranged class. If you can kill a barb without him ever getting near you then he has no impact on the fight whatsoever, he may as well just stand still and save you running about a bit. So giving yet move counters to UM is a big fat no. We already get spammed with beetle and slow downs without letting marks and locks freeze us as well.

With alternative for UM or otherways to reach a ranged class it wouldent be so bad. But for now this is out only tool to stop us becoming the plaything of ranged CC in solo situations.

[Topogigio_BR]

Originally Posted by theotherhiveking

Maybe you should change UM instead, providing full inmunity for short times(~10), with a lower cooldown, casting and cost.

So (at least the barbarian) as a way to 'counter' stuff, and the other guys dont need to outlast anything.

We all know UM is a shitty skill, sure, the effects are great, but the effect, the huge cooldowns and casting just encourage you to use it , charge, hit something twice and back off to wait for the skill to be available again...
It just encourages passive and sluggish gameplay.

Plus, cc arent half as lethal now with the new damages.

this i think is nicer. maybe put it 20s with 30s cd and lower the mana cost would be better for UM.

[Topogigio_BR]

Originally Posted by Umaril

Chilko not long ago said something to this effect (cba to go dig up the acctual quote)


Marks are a supporting part of an army, not a killing machine, you can skill in a damage/cc-support way to play well as part of a group. Or you can keep trying to play something which your class is not, a solo single target nuke machine.

Yes in 1v1 vs certain class's you will struggle, but who dosnt? Once you start working with other class's in RvR you are fine.

In the current balance ranged damage is to high, and the 'CC-support' thing gets lost because one or two ranged class can not only hold, but kill a target before the barb gets any of his own hits in.

A barb needs UM to get anywhere near a ranged class. If you can kill a barb without him ever getting near you then he has no impact on the fight whatsoever, he may as well just stand still and save you running about a bit. So giving yet move counters to UM is a big fat no. We already get spammed with beetle and slow downs without letting marks and locks freeze us as well.

With alternative for UM or otherways to reach a ranged class it wouldent be so bad. But for now this is out only tool to stop us becoming the plaything of ranged CC

So give us means to do support, instead of being the most mana consumable in game, and again support classes should have strong defense, is the same way with conjus and knights, if want us to be support give us all support tools.

But stay in the middles without having enough damage to be an attack class and not enoguh defense and mana to be support class is just unacceptable.

[Kyrottimus]

Originally Posted by Gallus

So give us means to do support, instead of being the most mana consumable in game

Having both a 50 barb and 50 marks and having used them both plenty in war, believe me when I say that Barbs are by far the most mana-consuming class, bar none, when comparing most functional average class builds.

It takes an average barb 70-80% of his mana pool alone simply to fuel all his buffs. Factor in high-mana attacks and cc's and it is very possible a barb is completely out of mana after he fully buffs and gets off two attack spells.

That's why barbs, if they usually vie for max effectiveness (with both offensive/defensive buffs), have to sacrifice pretty much all of their mana in one sitting.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Originally Posted by Gallus

But stay in the middles without having enough damage to be an attack class and not enoguh defense and mana to be support class is just unacceptable.

Acrobatic, evasive tactics, strategic, sotw ... This is not enough defence?

Etheral and Arcania are decent offence. And your normals (considering the range) are good without being ott.