I'm insane (in the membrane) regarding this suggestion - Page 2

agushushga · 04-20-2010, 09:58 PM

I agree

all evades and resists do is slow everything down. Which just makes the game less fun, why would ANY game designer want their game to be less fun? Grinding for knights wouldn't be so bad if evades and resists got killed off. Don't know enough about the game for the rest of the stuff, but whatever, good thread ^^

Immune · 04-20-2010, 11:44 PM

/me declares this thread over 9,000.
Also...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

Seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

Seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

Seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

Seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

Seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

Seriously.

Why so SERIOUS???
On with the words:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

In order to un-BS-ify (yeah it's a word....look it up) the game, I suggest the following extreme measures.

I strongly disagree with your judgement on the above statement and must inform you that it is indeed, NOT, a word. I will admit it would be an awesome word if it was one though.

1. Get rid of all evades. Seriously. Make all spells that affect evades do attack speed malus (if a debuff on an enemy) or maybe a combo of attack speed and/or range for bonuses. Replace Hit Chance bonuses with critical hit chance bonuses only.

Yesssssss +1. But idk why you would put maluses on them then... and what about spells that decrease evade chance? Like crash (or w/e it's called...)

2. Get rid of all resists. Seriously. Make things like SotW have some new feature like "cannot target new" (meaning if you don't already have the caster of SotW targeted, you cannot target him while he's under SotW) but it would do nothing for spell resistance (since it would be removed).

I would just get rid of resists unless a power is used to specifically give you resistance chance.

3. Get rid of all pets. Seriously. Stick some new skill tree, Ranger...tracking...traps, something more creative and dynamic than an uninspired tree that always leads to cookie-cutter hunter builds.

Depending on what the replacement tree is, this could be great or terrible. I do agree something needs to be done about pets though.

4. Cut all barb buffs and spells mana cost by at least 20% or increase their buffs duration by 20%. Seriously.

I don't play a barb so... sure?

5. Cut all marks buffs and spells mana cost by at least 10%. Seriously.

Yesssssss

6. Give all levels and classes 10%-20% hit point increase (to compensate for the loss of evades and resists) so people still live about the same length of time in battle, but without the need of BS luck.

Knights... will be so annoying... *cries*
But I agree anyways.

7. As part of the philosophy of "balance" every spell should have a way to counter it. Areas can be countered by MoD, MoD can be countered by DI or prevented by UM, DI can be countered by Mindsquasher, UM can be countered by Beetle Swarm...Beetle Swarm can be countered/prevented by...Nothing. Let's change that.

Since spell resists won't be random anymore, I would suggest changing "shifting silhouette" in conjurors sorcery tree from "+target miss chance" to "+spell resistance on target".

8. Make knights actually block with a realistic (not totally random) approach using "block dmg soak" sort of like Savage 2 (when you hold down a "block" key with a timer, which recharges when not in use, but it can only withstand so may "hits" before failing and it has to recharge/cd). I'd have the higher the block rate the longer/more one can block before attacks break through.

Um... ok? I guess? /Indecisive answer.

9. Increase all melee attack's range (including Stunning Fist for archers) by 10%.

Extra long arms for further falcon punches. Sure why not?!

10. Cut confuse duration in half. Yes. Half. Seriously.

I'd make it basically like silence. A dizzy with 15 sec duration at lvl 5. Which shouldn't be too imba if pets are changed up.

11. Give Klutu a pair of scissors to run with

/me casts mass hysteria(9,000)

12. Tip the pizza guy 15%

I'm the pizza guy. As far as you know...

13. Did you order breadsticks?

You did. But they mysteriously vanished on the way over here...

14. Crap, I left my wallet at your place

Unacceptable. FALCON PAWWWWNNCH!!!

15. I'm out of ideas.

No such thing.

</sleep-deprived insanity>

Madness??? THIS...IS...ANTIDISESTABLISHMENTARIANISM!!!

Klutu · 04-21-2010, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

TRIPLE POST
(I'm too lazy to cut/paste quotes)

What you just said confused the hell out of me. I want to go hit myself in the head with a 9-iron now. Thank you.

it's Playoff time for Hockey! i have little care of what and what doesnt make sence! and i got alot of Vodkaaaaa \o/

Kyrottimus · 04-21-2010, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immune

Why so SERIOUS???

Mbwana · 04-21-2010, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klutu

it's Playoff time for Hockey! i have little care of what and what doesnt make sence! and i got alot of Vodkaaaaa \o/

canadians.........

and you're supposed to drink beer! not vodka!

Klutu · 04-21-2010, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbwana

canadians.........

and you're supposed to drink beer! not vodka!

Beer Makes me have to take a leak every 5 minutes!

Canadians Evolved and started using vodka :P

e30G · 04-21-2010, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

Um, if I had a nickel for every time I had beetle swarm dispelled, I'd have...a nickel.

Plus I know a lot of people (i.e. Conjus) who play with particle effects turned off and no sound; how are they to know when to use dispell? There is no physical character animation to denote it (whereas knock and stun both show a physical reaction by the player itself; laying on the ground or stuck in place).

And Locks have Meteor which is basically their (much more damaging version) of Burst of Wind.

But UM can prevent that *(not always).

Then it isn't a matter of balance, rather it's a matter of better game animations. A lot of spells and debuffs fall under this category. So improve the animation and make it more obvious to everyone that someone got beetled.

Arafails · 04-21-2010, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e30ernest

Then it isn't a matter of balance, rather it's a matter of better game animations. A lot of spells and debuffs fall under this category. So improve the animation and make it more obvious to everyone that someone got beetled.

Yes! I want to see my barbarian running around waving his arms, swatting at the beetles that are swarming him. I doubt he'll spend much time doing anything else...

Yttrium · 04-21-2010, 07:11 AM

Evades and resists are a valid way to approach combat simulation. The problem in RO is in the implementation, not the concept. Removing them entirely would make the game far too predictable. RO would become more of a 'whoever gets the first CC off wins' game. Consider a hunter ambushing you from camo. Without resists, you have absolutely no chance of surviving if all his spells automatically land. For any class, you would just need to figure out the timing of a CC chain and automatically win as long as you got yours off first -- giving hunters an even bigger advantage.

A better idea would be to let the players understand how evades and resists work and let us effectively modify our chances by sacrificing things like damage and armor. For example, if you want to almost always hit, your damage should be lower. If you want to almost always evade/resist, your armor should be weaker. This is a pretty standard concept in MMOs. The wild, raging barbarian hits harder but misses more often. The agile hunter doges more often but must wear lighter armor. Mages that put more focus in resisting spells have less chance of successfully casting spells on others, etc.

I agree that all players should get more health. I'd go farther and say that everyone should get double health as someone suggested a while ago. Death comes too quickly in RO and too often due to making a single mistake or having a single spell resisted. Let us fight instead of dancing out of CC range for 90% of the time to avoid certain death. NGD tried to make battles last longer by reducing available mana. Increasing everyone's health would have been a much less frustrating way to do it.

NotScias · 04-21-2010, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cugel

Evades and resists are a valid way to approach combat simulation. The problem in RO is in the implementation, not the concept. Removing them entirely would make the game far too predictable. RO would become more of a 'whoever gets the first CC off wins' game. Consider a hunter ambushing you from camo. Without resists, you have absolutely no chance of surviving if all his spells automatically land. For any class, you would just need to figure out the timing of a CC chain and automatically win as long as you got yours off first -- giving hunters an even bigger advantage.

A better idea would be to let the players understand how evades and resists work and let us effectively modify our chances by sacrificing things like damage and armor. For example, if you want to almost always hit, your damage should be lower. If you want to almost always evade/resist, your armor should be weaker. This is a pretty standard concept in MMOs. The wild, raging barbarian hits harder but misses more often. The agile hunter doges more often but must wear lighter armor. Mages that put more focus in resisting spells have less chance of successfully casting spells on others, etc.

+1, we have to admit that Resists and Evades are necessary for the game.
I agree about removing resists/evades from mobs (from unranked to Normal at least), who are just here to be repeatedly killed anyways, but not from players because It'd make the game much more predictable and making it even more item based.
Example : 2 locks PvPing, one has got 71% CS, the other has got 56%, if there wasn't any resists, the lock with the highest CS would always win because he'd dizzy the other lock faster. With resists, if the other lock resists the first Meteor he'd have a nice chance to win even with crappy gear compared to the first one.

But I agree that Resists/Evades from players should be adjusted to avoid the insanes "x resists/evades in a row from players".

04-20-2010, 09:58 PM	#11
agushushga Pledge Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2	I agree all evades and resists do is slow everything down. Which just makes the game less fun, why would ANY game designer want their game to be less fun? Grinding for knights wouldn't be so bad if evades and resists got killed off. Don't know enough about the game for the rest of the stuff, but whatever, good thread ^^

04-21-2010, 07:11 AM	#19
Yttrium Initiate Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 135	Evades and resists are a valid way to approach combat simulation. The problem in RO is in the implementation, not the concept. Removing them entirely would make the game far too predictable. RO would become more of a 'whoever gets the first CC off wins' game. Consider a hunter ambushing you from camo. Without resists, you have absolutely no chance of surviving if all his spells automatically land. For any class, you would just need to figure out the timing of a CC chain and automatically win as long as you got yours off first -- giving hunters an even bigger advantage. A better idea would be to let the players understand how evades and resists work and let us effectively modify our chances by sacrificing things like damage and armor. For example, if you want to almost always hit, your damage should be lower. If you want to almost always evade/resist, your armor should be weaker. This is a pretty standard concept in MMOs. The wild, raging barbarian hits harder but misses more often. The agile hunter doges more often but must wear lighter armor. Mages that put more focus in resisting spells have less chance of successfully casting spells on others, etc. I agree that all players should get more health. I'd go farther and say that everyone should get double health as someone suggested a while ago. Death comes too quickly in RO and too often due to making a single mistake or having a single spell resisted. Let us fight instead of dancing out of CC range for 90% of the time to avoid certain death. NGD tried to make battles last longer by reducing available mana. Increasing everyone's health would have been a much less frustrating way to do it.