[Discuss] Item enhancement resist stacking, balance

[Miraculix]

Originally Posted by Seher

And we need more damage type variation for archers, as it is now everyone would go for pierce (or slash, ok) and we'd have quite a hard time.

FUCK YES.

Elemental arrows PLEASE. What the hell is this shit with pierce only arrows at 60 FFS?

[Seher]

Originally Posted by _Enio_

I dont like caps, thats not really smart. You get annoying side effects where more stacking has zero effect instead of diminished effect. i think diminishing returns are really the best way to deal with stuff like that.

Well it's kind of hard to guess how much your bonus is actually worth then, so it's not very elegant. () My suggestion isn't elegant either though, the most elegant solution would've been not to implement that crap from the beginning :P

Originally Posted by Miraculix

FUCK YES.

Elemental arrows PLEASE. What the hell is this shit with pierce only arrows at 60 FFS?

Yeah, arrows. Not to forget bows. Archers are the most restricted class in this matter. Warriors still can go for another weapon type, archers can't.

[_Enio_]

Originally Posted by Seher

Well it's kind of hard to guess how much your bonus is actually worth then, so it's not very elegant.

This isnt quite true, the bonus per rating will always be the same instead of increasing the more rating you have.


With Diminishing returns:

You chose a base. lets say 1 rating reduces incoming damage by 0.1%
-> 100 rating points reduce the incoming damage by 10%

The difference is now that not the full incoming damage is taken(as in the current system) but the real incoming damage remaining after accounting your resist from rating you already have.

if you had 50% resist from rating already, 100 more rating would exactly reduce the remaining incoming damage by 10%:

This means in the end the overall damage resist would be 55%, your 100 rating still are same effective as when you started at 0 resist and added 100.

Currently resist% value gets higher and higher the more resist you already have:
0% -> 10% = 10% less incoming damage when you compare both.
50% -> 60% = 20% less incoming damage when you compare both.
98% ->99% ) 50% less incoming damage when you compare both.

This fact is a huge issue and is very exploitable.

NGD could even remove the hardcap of minimum damage going through with DR implemented.


Hope this cleared it up a bit.

[Seher]

Now repeat your calculations with 15x2% :P That's what I meant.

Your suggestion is the better one or at least would be the better one if we didn't have that many small bonuses. (It the same with our new cast speed calculation)
This system could work though if all minor bonuses were to add up regularly like known, that way a normal brain could still handle it.

[_Enio_]

Originally Posted by Seher

Now repeat your calculations with 15x2% :P That's what I meant.

Your suggestion is the better one or at least would be the better one if we didn't have that many small bonuses. (It the same with our new cast speed calculation)
This system could work though if all minor bonuses were to add up regularly like known, that way a normal brain could still handle it.

Well its hard to calculate yourself, yes but you should intuitively be able to approximate what you get out of it.

[Nekudotayim]

Hello,

one can only add one type of enhancement per item. Not sure if this got mentioned here. So if there is an item with 5 possible enhancements, you can only add 5 different types. You may reconsider your calculations. Also archers already do a lot of normal damage. There is no need to give them more power by adding different types of damage but this seems to be an endless story.

Regards.

[_Enio_]

Originally Posted by Nekudotayim

Hello,

one can only add one type of enhancement per item. Not sure if this got mentioned here. So if there is an item with 5 possible enhancements, you can only add 5 different types. You may reconsider your calculations. Also archers already do a lot of normal damage. There is no need to give them more power by adding different types of damage but this seems to be an endless story.

Regards.

Haha really? Thats a bit idiotic, changes things alot.

So theres even an imbalance between mages & non mages when it comes to resist stacking now. (10% vs 6%)

Thanks for this info!

[Nekudotayim]

Okay just tested it on Amun.



It seems to work with the same enhancement added multiple times. A friend tried this on Niflheim on his Marksman and was not able to add the same type of enhancement multiple times on the same item (it was a WM item btw.). So I am not sure if this depends on the different game versions, classes, item types or he was just wrong.

Also, as you can see, the level of the item may increase.

Regards.

[_Enio_]

Originally Posted by Nekudotayim

Also, as you can see, the level of the item may increase.

Are you sure this exact same item was ilvl 50 before enhancing?

[Nekudotayim]

Originally Posted by _Enio_

Are you sure this exact same item was ilvl 50 before enhancing?

The item has the same level values before enhancing. Seems to be a bug and another invalid statement from me. Seems not to be my day today. :-/