Current state of the International Proletarian Revolution

[Gabs]

Originally Posted by Domino_

imo, communists go to hell !!1!1!1!

Thanks 4 the input.

[Froste]

Originally Posted by Umaril

And because the vast majority of the world are born and bred in capitalism its probably going to stay that way

The vaaaast majority of the world is born into poverty. Please don't make shit up.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Originally Posted by Froste

The vaaaast majority of the world is born into poverty. Please don't make shit up.

Ok Ill put it another way, I wont pretend its fair or nice but its the way the world is.

The vast majority who can vote and could potentially change the world away from capitalism, mainly those in America, west europe, australia, China, Japan etc... (the last 2 are shifting increasingly towards capitalism)

Many poverty stricken countrys like africa are rife with corruption. And even if for example nigeria did vote in a communist governement the rest of the world probably wouldent bat an eyelid, communism wouldent work in highly debt ridden countrys anyway (not that capitalism, dictatorship etc are) since there is not enough money to go around the population and bring them into the 'middle' or probably even 'lower' wealth bands of the world.

And hey, did anyone expect a thread about this topic not to have a few sparks fly?

[Vythica]

Originally Posted by Umaril

Ok Ill put it another way, I wont pretend its fair or nice but its the way the world is.

The vast majority who can vote and could potentially change the world away from capitalism, mainly those in America, west europe, australia, China, Japan etc... (the last 2 are shifting increasingly towards capitalism)

Japan is not a communist state. It's HIGHLY Capitalistic. And furthermore, Capitalism won't die with a vote, it will die in flames. It's the only way they will relinquish power.

Originally Posted by Umaril

Many poverty stricken countrys like africa are rife with corruption. And even if for example nigeria did vote in a communist governement the rest of the world probably wouldent bat an eyelid, communism wouldent work in highly debt ridden countrys anyway (not that capitalism, dictatorship etc are) since there is not enough money to go around the population and bring them into the 'middle' or probably even 'lower' wealth bands of the world.

Firstly, Africa is a continent not a country, secondly, like I said before no one 'votes' a communist government in. The proletariat either seize power or they are exploited. There is little grey area between.

[Warthog]

Any and all forms of government are and always will be flawed. Why? Because humans as a species are flawed. You can say whatever you want, perhaps even be Naive enough to believe what you are saying it won't change this fact.

So what would you do with all these people who don't believe everyone deserves all the same things? Or those who decide since I am gonna get the same as everyone else anyway I will just not do anything? In theory communism is a very nice sounding plan. The problem is we live in reality and you will never convince even the majority of humans that we all deserve exactly equal everything no matter what each and every person contributes to there society. So, short of a genocide that would make the Halocaust look like a toddlers game....and then getting rid of each and every dissident born in every generation to come...a true communal form of life will never happen. And even if this mass genocide did happen you would end up with 2 classes...those in charge making sure everyone gets there equal share (big brother) and those who just go about life. An there is no way you can honestly think that this big brother class will not have people in it who use there place to there advantage, he same as captilist government officials use there positions.

[Vythica]

Originally Posted by Warthog

Any and all forms of government are and always will be flawed. Why? Because humans as a species are flawed. You can say whatever you want, perhaps even be Naive enough to believe what you are saying it won't change this fact.

So what would you do with all these people who don't believe everyone deserves all the same things? Or those who decide since I am gonna get the same as everyone else anyway I will just not do anything? In theory communism is a very nice sounding plan. The problem is we live in reality and you will never convince even the majority of humans that we all deserve exactly equal everything no matter what each and every person contributes to there society. So, short of a genocide that would make the Halocaust look like a toddlers game....and then getting rid of each and every dissident born in every generation to come...a true communal form of life will never happen. And even if this mass genocide did happen you would end up with 2 classes...those in charge making sure everyone gets there equal share (big brother) and those who just go about life. An there is no way you can honestly think that this big brother class will not have people in it who use there place to there advantage, he same as captilist government officials use there positions.

Damn, I bet Terekon that we could get to 33 posts before a mention of Hitler, the Holocaust or Nazis... I was so close.

On Topic: I do believe a communal society will arise one day. But right now we have to prepare the workers for that day. We can start by holding our elected representatives accountable, demanding fair wages, and wage equality for women. Support social justice organizations and take a stand against imperialist wars.

[Cuchulainn]

Originally Posted by terekon

[...] Cuba is an example that is used all the time against communism. They have been communist for a long time and are still surviving even though they have been heavily sanctioned. [...]

A lot of people mix up communism with socialism. Cuba have been a socialism, but not a communism.

Communism is currently only ideology. Bolivia, Venezuela, Cuba and China are socialism. The Soviet Union was socialistic, even if they claimed they are communistic.

Here is a website which explains the difference:
http://www.marxmail.org/faq/socialism_and_communism.htm

[Godot]

I'd just like to point out that a slave state can only exist under a
capitalist economic structure. Also , communism and capitalism aren't
opposite forms of government, they aren't even mutually exclusive ideas.
Capitalism is an economic system based on supply and demand.
Communism is a system of government where no member of society
is exploited for the profit of another.

[Vythica]

Originally Posted by Godot

I'd just like to point out that a slave state can only exist under a
capitalist economic structure. Also , communism and capitalism aren't
opposite forms of government, they aren't even mutually exclusive ideas.
Capitalism is an economic system based on supply and demand.
Communism is a system of government where no member of society
is exploited for the profit of another.

I'd like to point out Godot that you're 100% right. Except slavery is in some ways better to being a proletariat. Marx put it this way, and I'll paraphrase;

"The slave and his labour are sold once, the proletarian has to sell himself everyday, and in fractions. While the slaves existence is by no means a pleasant one, it is at least stable. The proletarian feels the pressure of competition and instability that are foreign to the slave".

[Godot]

Originally Posted by Vythica

I'd like to point out Godot that you're 100% right. Except slavery is in some ways better to being a proletariat. Marx put it this way, and I'll paraphrase;

"The slave and his labour are sold once, the proletarian has to sell himself everyday, and in fractions. While the slaves existence is by no means a pleasant one, it is at least stable. The proletarian feels the pressure of competition and instability that are foreign to the slave".

funny you should mention that; it was the quote I was thinking of when I wrote that