Current state of the International Proletarian Revolution

[Godot]

I'd just like to point out that a slave state can only exist under a
capitalist economic structure. Also , communism and capitalism aren't
opposite forms of government, they aren't even mutually exclusive ideas.
Capitalism is an economic system based on supply and demand.
Communism is a system of government where no member of society
is exploited for the profit of another.

[Vythica]

Originally Posted by Godot

I'd just like to point out that a slave state can only exist under a
capitalist economic structure. Also , communism and capitalism aren't
opposite forms of government, they aren't even mutually exclusive ideas.
Capitalism is an economic system based on supply and demand.
Communism is a system of government where no member of society
is exploited for the profit of another.

I'd like to point out Godot that you're 100% right. Except slavery is in some ways better to being a proletariat. Marx put it this way, and I'll paraphrase;

"The slave and his labour are sold once, the proletarian has to sell himself everyday, and in fractions. While the slaves existence is by no means a pleasant one, it is at least stable. The proletarian feels the pressure of competition and instability that are foreign to the slave".

[Godot]

Originally Posted by Vythica

I'd like to point out Godot that you're 100% right. Except slavery is in some ways better to being a proletariat. Marx put it this way, and I'll paraphrase;

"The slave and his labour are sold once, the proletarian has to sell himself everyday, and in fractions. While the slaves existence is by no means a pleasant one, it is at least stable. The proletarian feels the pressure of competition and instability that are foreign to the slave".

funny you should mention that; it was the quote I was thinking of when I wrote that

[ArcticWolf]

You're still thinking how to solve problems that should have been solved in the 20th century with a 19th century mindset, not taking into account we're in the 21st century.

Communism and Capitalism aren't the same they used to be. Both were based upon the "lack of resources" and a steady but ever-demanding local market. Classical Capitalism promotes free markets, almost no economic intervention and requires your market to be local. Nowadays, markets are global, heavily regulated and full of monopolies.

Classical Communism opts to heavily regulate the market, even deciding which jobs you may apply to. One of the dogmas is that every job is as important as any other and so everyone should be paid the same salary. While this was theoretically true two centuries ago, nowadays just training an engineer (or any other professional) makes him more valuable than a plain worker, just because he can perform both tasks. Even more, Communism completely fails to acknowledge this simple fact just for the sake of (a fake) class equity.

Don't get me wrong. I do think the world is screwed up, politicians are evil to the bones and our economic system is broken. It's just that I *hate* when people refuse to look at the problem with a cold mind and fresh ideas.

PS: I don't consider myself a technocrat, but I sound like one... Heh.

[Henri_Freundlich]

Post scarcity is what you're going after, I believe.

[Henri_Freundlich]

Originally Posted by Godot

Capitalism is an economic system based on supply and demand.
Communism is a system of government where no member of society
is exploited for the profit of another.

Deus Ex: The Conspiracy - Dark Age ending

'Revolutions' are scattered in history - not a new concept. 99% of them cause more dissent, rather than peace. "Optimism" just doesn't cut it these days.



- "Saving" via assinations