Current state of the International Proletarian Revolution

[Henri_Freundlich]

Originally Posted by terekon

Look at vietnam, there are still children being born with birth defects because of what we did. The same has already started in Iraq.

So, this thread isn't about Communism and Capitalism and rather, an in-depth discussion about how corporations and governments conduct subtle experiments on society while semi-neglecting the people adversely affected by them. Interesting.

The T-245 compound vegetation spray was used in various parts of the world, for vegetation control (apart from the Vietnam War). Until the USA outlawed it shortly after the massive illness-causing side-effects were revealed to the public.

Iraq - entirely Bush's fault IMHO. Hussein *was* a benevolent dictator. The Bush Government did not have an effective exit strategy in-place, with countless deaths etc *after* the war ended.

Originally Posted by Godot

h of raping you, your friends, neighbors and countrymen.

Rape? Overcharges, yes, but they don't physically go to your house and sexually assault you.

Better to keep facts as-is, rather than distorting them with one's own interests and views.

Originally Posted by Godot

nice qote , I'd say it proves that the people DO in fact have motivation to
inovate and excel.

Yes, by competing with capitalism-led companies.

And by the way, I'm Center-Left, not radical-Left.

[terekon]

Originally Posted by Henri_Freundlich

The T-245 compound vegetation spray was used in various parts of the world, for vegetation control (apart from the Vietnam War). Until the USA outlawed it shortly after the massive illness-causing side-effects were revealed to the public.

you are right they did outlaw Agent orange after the effects on soldiers were seen in the hundreds of thousands. Napalm was also used and outlawed. However since they made the use of Napalm illegal, they had to find something else to take its place, and that is white phosphorus. Its alleged use is to destroy weapon caches or materials that could be helpful in aiding the enemy. That is until we start dropping it into heavily populated civilian neighborhoods like we did in fallujah.

its not just the fault of George Bush, its the fault of everyone who carried out his orders even if they were grossly against international law. Dont think because something is outlawed they wont use something just as bad.

[makarios68]

Originally Posted by Vythica

Capitalism isn't a political system. Neither is Communism. They are economic theories, one based on exploiting the average worker, the other based on his emancipation.

I haven't really got the time to dabble with semantics. Suffice it to say that political theory and political practice are very closely inter-linked.

Originally Posted by Vythica

As for leader accountability, in a Communist society there would be nothing stopping the people from holding their leaders accountable

The terms 'communist society' and 'leaders' are not compatible. A communist society is supposed to have no leader/s. Which is why i pointed out that the vast majority of people do not want to rule or govern. This task will always fall upon those who hunger for it - in effect, the politicians. I don't believe it is possible for a communist society to exist in the utopian image that some people have. This is because the vast majority of people are not political enough to be interested in running their society. And so we pass the burden to others who are willing to do the task.

This is why we need a political system that reigns in the worst excesses of the power-hungry. In a capitalist system we might get a retired actor or a bumbling fool as leader, but at least it isn't Stalin or a Chairman Mau. These tyrants were allowed their excesses under a different kind of system.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Vythica

Actually it would probably be much more efficient and leaders would actually be prosecuted instead of walking free like they do today, hiding under the skirts of big business.

I agree completely here. As i said, i am aware of the failings.

Originally Posted by Vythica

Marxism DOES shine a light on the one giant failing of Capitalism. It's based on exploitation. That's what Marxism teaches us.

Yes it is. But so were the so-called communist examples we have in our history. These were based on exploitation too - they only difference is, they didn't tell us at the beginning.

Originally Posted by Vythica

EDIT: I forgot to point out that I'm eagerly awaiting the Revolution.

Good luck with that

[Vythica]

For one who doesn't dabble in semantics, you sure do dabble in semantics. That being said there is nothing in Communism that runs counter to having leaders. The idea put forth by Lenin was that we would have elected councils that were completely transparent and accountable wholly to the workers.

[makarios68]

Originally Posted by Godot

well.... not exactly, China seems to be thriving under a system not
capitalistic.

As DKY said, this is not a good example to hold up as a torch light for communism. China is a curious mix of the worst excesses of capitalism, but under a communist banner.

With hundreds of millions living under extreme poverty and subject to to human rights abuses, the majority of that society are not exactly thriving.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

Lol, in the time it took me to submit my last post, half a dozen or more replies were made.

I wish i had time to comment on more of them - fascinating topic by the OP.

Hope this thread doesn't turn sour - please don't let that happen.

[makarios68]

Originally Posted by Vythica

The idea put forth by Lenin was that we would have elected councils that were completely transparent and accountable wholly to the workers.

Nice idea. Not so easy in practice.

Which is why it has never happened.

[Vythica]

But that's not to say it can't or won't. I like to think that human beings learn from our mistakes and take precautions against making them again.

[makarios68]

Originally Posted by Vythica

But that's not to say it can't or won't. I like to think that human beings learn from our mistakes and take precautions against making them again.

I'm sorry but i had trouble replying to this because it is is very vague.

Idealism and putting something into practice are two things that are massively apart.

It is so easy to spout out an idea solves all the problems.

How exactly would you solve all the problems of humanity?

[makarios68]

Ten billion armchair revolutions don't change a thing.

A rare few actually manage to make some change.

View their motives with caution.

That's me done here...

[Vythica]

Originally Posted by makarios68

How exactly would you solve all the problems of humanity?

I'm just one person, spreading ideas in my sphere of influence. I don't have all the answers to every single problem, but I do have a dream.

Btw, I don't like armchair revolutions either, I'm actually an activist and have done my fair share of civil disobedience. (See the following thread; http://regnumonlinegame.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=48066) I'm very active in social justice issues.