Support the Walk Out [Horus]

Syd_Vicious · 01-01-2009, 04:30 AM

I have been playing this game for months now and have seen many "fixes", "updates", and "patches" (further called FU-P[layer]) being applied. At first most of these patches have been pointed towards trying to help the game. Unfortunately the main baseline for these patches has always been the Ra Server. To this extent Horus has suffered. While some have lauded and appraised the patches for bringing player balance, these patches have not done anything in the majority for Realm Balance or player retention.

I have spent most of my time in Alsius trying to help others. This has ranged from making a book for new players to help them get through the game and level faster to sometimes finding a grinding spot and just spamming mana com and GH. From patch to patch this has gotten increasingly harder to do, by me not being able to find a lot of ppl online. While it has gotten harder to level it has also gotten harder to retain players. XP bonuses aimed at aiding the Realm Balance issue have not done anything to promote retention of players. Giving players a 5-15% increase in XP while increasing the difficulty of leveling by 20% across the board does not help at all.

Not to mention incorporating an Invasion system when realms aren't balanced has lead to repeated invasions and continued promotion of a single realm further increasing the realm imbalance between the realms. This makes the game less fun for others, while some may enjoy being the underdog it has also decreased our ability to keep active players. It has also increased the difficulty of new players leveling because they are continuously defending against invading forces. Some players have chose leveling over defending against an invasion because they feel the invasion is inevitable and are powerless to stop it.

On top of that NGD continues to add these FU-P instances where things are perpetually broken. Currently guards, mobs and enemy players are shooting through walls, doors and other obstructive objects that are there to offer protection. Fort and Castle Guards are running through walls to attack players that don't have a chance to attack the Door to bring it down. Pets from enemy hunters attack players inside of forts and castles when the doors are up.

This is just the latest instance from failed patching, yet NGD continues to perform commercial holiday events in an attempt to capitalize and make a quick buck from the users without performing any real fix or necessary update.

Some players may consider this whining, but I am calling for what I believe a necessary action. This is mainly asked of my fellow Alsius players, but other realm players are welcome to support, a staged walk out where we refuse to play or buy xym for a week. What this has the opportunity to do is to show NGD that they have a potential to lose customers for failure to maintain their product in a state that promotes both player retention and overall enjoyment of the game. If a game is not enjoyable then it is a chore. Many of our players have already quit and gone to other MMOs and something needs to be done to curtail this trend and that power lies with NGD. We as players can only help so much before we are no longer playing the game ourselves, but vicariously playing the game over again through different new users. If in the end NGD deems this as a waste of their time, then by default if boosting retention of players and promoting realm balance is a waste of their time then this game is a waste of most of our time. While some of you might not agree with this, most of you can agree with some of the points that have been made. Also this is not quiting this is leveraging the power of the consumer against a company that failed to realize that their product is losing its fitness of merchantability with the general consumer baseline for English users.

Also remember that the Horus server is a different entity compared to Ra, though some of the same trends maybe occurring there even though NGD has the market share on Spanish MMOs. I would appreciate anyones input in regards to this post. As for me I am going to quit playing altogether, but will still look at this post from time to time and if NGD does manage to put fixes into the game that promote retention and realm balance bringing fun back into the game I may come back.

Walk Out Days 4, Jan 2009 to 11, Jan 2009

Mikan · 01-01-2009, 04:43 AM

Hey Sydonay_Rex,

I wholeheartedly agree with you, and yes all of these same things are happening on Ra as well.

It's always been like that, and sadly you would be the millionth person to quit, not the first, and I honestly doubt NGD is going to care this time any more than the hundreds of times in the past.

This is because NGD is led by a boss and the nice folks such as surak and niclam do not ultimately decide what gets done (in most cases), but rather the hierarchial command structure of the company, just like all companies. They have to do their job as they are told to do, whether it benefits us or not.

Nothing will get these trends to change short of the game outright dying, but that is not going to happen because as you said NGD is holding the monopoly over the Spanish MMO market.

I'm sorry.

Regards,

makarios68 · 01-01-2009, 04:51 AM

As i have said a lot lately, realm imbalance is the most pressing problem in the game ATM.

Alsius in Ra are much more on the backfoot than not.

It sounds even worse in Horus.

SmUrV · 01-01-2009, 04:58 AM

This is the second time (in my time playing) that a fix has been displayed in the changelog but the outcame has been the exact opposite.

Version: 0.9.37 (Hotfix) (Date: 2008/11/4)

Description:

Premium:
- Fixed: Scroll name change didn't disappear from the inventory, after use.

Gameplay:
- Fixed: Quests that had "use with dob" objectives couldnt be completed.
- Fixed: Missing rewards from certain quests.
- Updated: Now, monsters that appear under water will drown.

My hunter still hasn't recieve an amulet of emenations after losing one to the bug fixed here and I pmd kailer about it.

And recently

Version: 1.0.2 (Date: 2008/12/31)

Description:

Premium:
- New: Fireworks with three variants, single, tri-shot and light show.

Gameplay:
- New: Realm gems state now persist automatically after a server failure or scheduled update. This means that after a server restart, the gem will appear on the portal and/or pedestal where it was last seen.
- Fixed: Now gems dropped on the ground will return to their last position after a while (portal and/or pedestal).
- Modified: Destination of the teleport stones in the middle island is now the corresponding realm boat, near the shore.
- Modified: Yellow war state now displays the time left for the great wall to be vulnerable.

Client:
- Fixed: A problem with the physics engine was corrected. This caused several monsters and guards to "levitate", as well as players shooting through solid objects (i.e.: fort doors).
- Modified: Resource download mechanism has been optimized to support more users, it's now also less prone to download failure (although the system supports automatic resume).
- New: Two new weather effects, Snow and Sand storms.

ALL spells and or other attacks can be casted through fort and castle walls(friendly or otherwise).

AND there is a thread currently under the discusion of experience and its effect on horus.

El_Naso · 01-01-2009, 06:54 AM

Well you are bringing up a good point... I have not been to horus yet but for what I hear Horus is still just a baby world compared to ra, and it's growing in a much more different way, so it should be treated differently and carefully. Ra grew much like amun. There was a world chat, frew people, everybody knew each other, wars were arranged since there were never too many players, it was like a family. Playerbase grew, reset came, global chat was removed, but the players remained strongly attached to each other. Premium was introduced as a way for those who belived in the game to donate money so that ngd could continue developing it, as they were still just a "garage" company.

Few of the players that have lived through those times or have known that comunity that grew with the game remain today. In horus, that never happened. Game development evolved based on the ideal amount of players, but that amount hasn't apparently been reached in horus. There is probably not nearly enough people for invasions there, while in ra it's hard to invade, in horus seems to be easier since there are fewer players to defend, and as a side effect, players on the loosing side may leave, same with new players encountering few people online, little things to do and a lot of grinding that doesen't seem to be going to ever pay off. Players were overwhelmed.

So... yeah, you are bringing up a good point. Things in Ra that are balanced with the playerbase in mind should be treated differently in horus not to hinder it's population. It's a delicated problem, and not a very easy one to solve btw :|

Znurre · 01-01-2009, 12:05 PM

You are very true here...
I can only say I feel sorry for the people playing in Alsius on Horus.
For soon 2 years I have been playing in Alsius on RA, and experienced how it is to be the underdog.

From what I can understand you have it 10 times worse than what I experienced.

However, I think the main problem is the ignorance of NGD. Clearly.
Yes I know that people like Kailer or surak for example are not allowed to reveal much information - but how about a friendly "We care about this problem. We will look into it and try to solve it" ?

Or how about replying mails sent from your customers?

Froste · 01-01-2009, 01:05 PM

You can walk if you want, but I certainly won't.

Inkster · 01-01-2009, 02:22 PM

Going from the title of this thread and the pure lazieness of myself not been bothered to read the content heres by 5p's worth

There is a saying cut off your nose to spite your face. If you guys who play in horus do this walkout malarky, then there will be less people playing on horus (obviously).

Not enough players, ngd will simply close the server. (as has been mentioned by themselves elsewhere on the forum) Then you will have lost the work you put in and will only have yourselves to blame IF you walk out

Angelwinged_Devil · 01-01-2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inkster

Going from the title of this thread and the pure lazieness of myself not been bothered to read the content heres by 5p's worth

There is a saying cut off your nose to spite your face. If you guys who play in horus do this walkout malarky, then there will be less people playing on horus (obviously).

Not enough players, ngd will simply close the server. (as has been mentioned by themselves elsewhere on the forum) Then you will have lost the work you put in and will only have yourselves to blame IF you walk out

I can only agree with these words, wait, do not quit

Syd_Vicious · 01-01-2009, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inkster

Going from the title of this thread and the pure lazieness of myself not been bothered to read the content heres by 5p's worth

There is a saying cut off your nose to spite your face. If you guys who play in horus do this walkout malarky, then there will be less people playing on horus (obviously).

Not enough players, ngd will simply close the server. (as has been mentioned by themselves elsewhere on the forum) Then you will have lost the work you put in and will only have yourselves to blame IF you walk out

AS I said above if we aren't worth the time, then the game isn't. It is not a cut off your nose to spite your face situation if there is an appropriate outcome. If they close the server then so be it. Ppl on Horus can join RA that were RA transplants anyways, the base that had joined based on it being a FP2 English MMO have many better options at that point. Killing Horus doesn't sound like a bad idea since it doesn't get it's own support since NGDs main focus is the playerbase on RA.

Also remember that NGD has also had previous threads saying the RA server has never had so many players as it does now and they are only setup to handle 1500 ppl so they are just watching the servers. Imagine them having a server "refugee" in rush if they close Horus. All in all it is more of a lose lose situation for them. As players we have many more options than they do.

Waiting - procrastination, solves nothing and is more of a "appreciate your ass to spite your brain" decision or in another words is like a second marriage "hope versus experience".

01-01-2009, 04:30 AM	#1
Syd_Vicious Initiate Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: The Desert, The Mountains, The Sky Posts: 152	Support the Walk Out [Horus] I have been playing this game for months now and have seen many "fixes", "updates", and "patches" (further called FU-P[layer]) being applied. At first most of these patches have been pointed towards trying to help the game. Unfortunately the main baseline for these patches has always been the Ra Server. To this extent Horus has suffered. While some have lauded and appraised the patches for bringing player balance, these patches have not done anything in the majority for Realm Balance or player retention. I have spent most of my time in Alsius trying to help others. This has ranged from making a book for new players to help them get through the game and level faster to sometimes finding a grinding spot and just spamming mana com and GH. From patch to patch this has gotten increasingly harder to do, by me not being able to find a lot of ppl online. While it has gotten harder to level it has also gotten harder to retain players. XP bonuses aimed at aiding the Realm Balance issue have not done anything to promote retention of players. Giving players a 5-15% increase in XP while increasing the difficulty of leveling by 20% across the board does not help at all. Not to mention incorporating an Invasion system when realms aren't balanced has lead to repeated invasions and continued promotion of a single realm further increasing the realm imbalance between the realms. This makes the game less fun for others, while some may enjoy being the underdog it has also decreased our ability to keep active players. It has also increased the difficulty of new players leveling because they are continuously defending against invading forces. Some players have chose leveling over defending against an invasion because they feel the invasion is inevitable and are powerless to stop it. On top of that NGD continues to add these FU-P instances where things are perpetually broken. Currently guards, mobs and enemy players are shooting through walls, doors and other obstructive objects that are there to offer protection. Fort and Castle Guards are running through walls to attack players that don't have a chance to attack the Door to bring it down. Pets from enemy hunters attack players inside of forts and castles when the doors are up. This is just the latest instance from failed patching, yet NGD continues to perform commercial holiday events in an attempt to capitalize and make a quick buck from the users without performing any real fix or necessary update. Some players may consider this whining, but I am calling for what I believe a necessary action. This is mainly asked of my fellow Alsius players, but other realm players are welcome to support, a staged walk out where we refuse to play or buy xym for a week. What this has the opportunity to do is to show NGD that they have a potential to lose customers for failure to maintain their product in a state that promotes both player retention and overall enjoyment of the game. If a game is not enjoyable then it is a chore. Many of our players have already quit and gone to other MMOs and something needs to be done to curtail this trend and that power lies with NGD. We as players can only help so much before we are no longer playing the game ourselves, but vicariously playing the game over again through different new users. If in the end NGD deems this as a waste of their time, then by default if boosting retention of players and promoting realm balance is a waste of their time then this game is a waste of most of our time. While some of you might not agree with this, most of you can agree with some of the points that have been made. Also this is not quiting this is leveraging the power of the consumer against a company that failed to realize that their product is losing its fitness of merchantability with the general consumer baseline for English users. Also remember that the Horus server is a different entity compared to Ra, though some of the same trends maybe occurring there even though NGD has the market share on Spanish MMOs. I would appreciate anyones input in regards to this post. As for me I am going to quit playing altogether, but will still look at this post from time to time and if NGD does manage to put fixes into the game that promote retention and realm balance bringing fun back into the game I may come back. Walk Out Days 4, Jan 2009 to 11, Jan 2009

01-01-2009, 04:43 AM	#2
Mikan Baron Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: In Nekoko's lap ;) Posts: 768	Hey Sydonay_Rex, I wholeheartedly agree with you, and yes all of these same things are happening on Ra as well. It's always been like that, and sadly you would be the millionth person to quit, not the first, and I honestly doubt NGD is going to care this time any more than the hundreds of times in the past. This is because NGD is led by a boss and the nice folks such as surak and niclam do not ultimately decide what gets done (in most cases), but rather the hierarchial command structure of the company, just like all companies. They have to do their job as they are told to do, whether it benefits us or not. Nothing will get these trends to change short of the game outright dying, but that is not going to happen because as you said NGD is holding the monopoly over the Spanish MMO market. I'm sorry. Regards, __________________ Hannah Amelie • Catalina Nevena • Alicia Godwyn Alsius Horus ✝ No chance of victory, no chance of defeat ✝ Frozen Flame Individually, we are one drop. Together, we are an ocean. An ocean of drama. Last edited by Katiechan; 01-01-2009 at 08:56 PM.

01-01-2009, 06:54 AM	#5
El_Naso Baron Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Not studying Posts: 675	Well you are bringing up a good point... I have not been to horus yet but for what I hear Horus is still just a baby world compared to ra, and it's growing in a much more different way, so it should be treated differently and carefully. Ra grew much like amun. There was a world chat, frew people, everybody knew each other, wars were arranged since there were never too many players, it was like a family. Playerbase grew, reset came, global chat was removed, but the players remained strongly attached to each other. Premium was introduced as a way for those who belived in the game to donate money so that ngd could continue developing it, as they were still just a "garage" company. Few of the players that have lived through those times or have known that comunity that grew with the game remain today. In horus, that never happened. Game development evolved based on the ideal amount of players, but that amount hasn't apparently been reached in horus. There is probably not nearly enough people for invasions there, while in ra it's hard to invade, in horus seems to be easier since there are fewer players to defend, and as a side effect, players on the loosing side may leave, same with new players encountering few people online, little things to do and a lot of grinding that doesen't seem to be going to ever pay off. Players were overwhelmed. So... yeah, you are bringing up a good point. Things in Ra that are balanced with the playerbase in mind should be treated differently in horus not to hinder it's population. It's a delicated problem, and not a very easy one to solve btw :\| __________________ Naso · Tirador / Tremendo Naso · Cazador / N a s o · Conju Ligeramente ocupado _

01-01-2009, 12:05 PM	#6
Znurre Marquis Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: RA Posts: 1,897	You are very true here... I can only say I feel sorry for the people playing in Alsius on Horus. For soon 2 years I have been playing in Alsius on RA, and experienced how it is to be the underdog. From what I can understand you have it 10 times worse than what I experienced. However, I think the main problem is the ignorance of NGD. Clearly. Yes I know that people like Kailer or surak for example are not allowed to reveal much information - but how about a friendly "We care about this problem. We will look into it and try to solve it" ? Or how about replying mails sent from your customers? __________________ Winning a fight is not what makes you a good player, it's how you do it. http://home.znur.re/screenshot%20201...2011_39_37.jpg

01-01-2009, 01:05 PM	#7
Froste Baron Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Svea Rike Posts: 814	You can walk if you want, but I certainly won't. __________________ *Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines...*

01-01-2009, 04:51 AM	#3
makarios68 Count Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: England Posts: 1,300	As i have said a lot lately, realm imbalance is the most pressing problem in the game ATM. Alsius in Ra are much more on the backfoot than not. It sounds even worse in Horus.

01-01-2009, 04:58 AM	#4
SmUrV Banned Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Everywhere but nowhere Posts: 134	This is the second time (in my time playing) that a fix has been displayed in the changelog but the outcame has been the exact opposite. Version: 0.9.37 (Hotfix) (Date: 2008/11/4) Description: Premium: - Fixed: Scroll name change didn't disappear from the inventory, after use. Gameplay: - Fixed: Quests that had "use with dob" objectives couldnt be completed. - Fixed: Missing rewards from certain quests. - Updated: Now, monsters that appear under water will drown. My hunter still hasn't recieve an amulet of emenations after losing one to the bug fixed here and I pmd kailer about it. And recently Version: 1.0.2 (Date: 2008/12/31) Description: Premium: - New: Fireworks with three variants, single, tri-shot and light show. Gameplay: - New: Realm gems state now persist automatically after a server failure or scheduled update. This means that after a server restart, the gem will appear on the portal and/or pedestal where it was last seen. - Fixed: Now gems dropped on the ground will return to their last position after a while (portal and/or pedestal). - Modified: Destination of the teleport stones in the middle island is now the corresponding realm boat, near the shore. - Modified: Yellow war state now displays the time left for the great wall to be vulnerable. Client: - Fixed: A problem with the physics engine was corrected. This caused several monsters and guards to "levitate", as well as players shooting through solid objects (i.e.: fort doors). - Modified: Resource download mechanism has been optimized to support more users, it's now also less prone to download failure (although the system supports automatic resume). - New: Two new weather effects, Snow and Sand storms. *ALL* spells and or other attacks can be casted through fort and castle walls(friendly or otherwise). AND there is a thread currently under the discusion of experience and its effect on horus.

01-01-2009, 02:22 PM	#8
Inkster Count Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Arse firmly glued to Ra Posts: 1,042	Going from the title of this thread and the pure lazieness of myself not been bothered to read the content heres by 5p's worth There is a saying cut off your nose to spite your face. If you guys who play in horus do this walkout malarky, then there will be less people playing on horus (obviously). Not enough players, ngd will simply close the server. (as has been mentioned by themselves elsewhere on the forum) Then you will have lost the work you put in and will only have yourselves to blame IF you walk out __________________ Follow me on facebook https://www.facebook.com/lomgom/