Combat system test - Amun open

chilko · 09-16-2009, 10:41 PM

Hello everyone,

as of now we are opening Amun to start testing and gather feedback on the changes introduced in the combat system

there are some known issues that might appear:

- some animation glitches or animations that still need adjustments
- a rare bug in which you appear to be in combat mode and you are not
- warriors being able to throw attacks to corpses

One clarification: warriors will throw an attack animation even if they are not really in range in some cases (its like a failed try...) this is intended.
proper feedback for this must be added.

Also, final adjustments to balance have not been made yet, such as damage, or weapon speeds or arrow costs.

tactics for 1vs1 (melee vs. ranged) will change a lot... you will have to start using some spells that might not be that useful before, please remember that the focus is balancing for RvR situations. instead of complaining about how you could take out a single warrior with 3 button presses or without being touched before and not able to do the same thing now, try to find out new tactics to win.

Please lets not make this a thread about old system vs. new system or a flame war against us changing something... we really need to gather positive feedback on how to make this work as it is WAY better technically to our previous implementations.

best regards,

-Chilko

Kyrottimus · 09-17-2009, 12:12 AM

Realizing this is still 'work in progress'....

I've tested both archer and warrior and here are my observations:

Pros:

* I like the new archer attack speed, and I feel I can get with the rhythm of normals/spells fairly easily.

* I like how with the archers, if you are "not facing" your enemy, your stance is different than when you are facing (bow held close as opposed to held out while aiming). It makes for faster recognition (via animation) instead of waiting for the "you are not facing your enemy" message.

* I'm glad archers have had their feet planted (shoulder-width apart as should be) when they fire and I like the new archer animations. Also, not being able to shoot sideways while strafe-kiting is a reasonable. Even with the new "stop while attacking" limitation I was able to get within range of a yellow mob and kill it in 6 hits with it only hitting me once, so grinding is still doable.

* I like how warriors can now cast buffs and area spells while on the move, makes for faster gameplay.

* I understand the purpose of the Global Cooldown and I like how it was implemented (with full spell-bar yellow timers)

* I like the new tree models and textures on things and "fixes" to the game-world, it looks a lot nicer

* I like the realm names of characters now reflecting their realm color (light blue, orange, green) instead of the sub-title of clan-name or just realm title being colored.

Cons

* I don't know if this is ONLY for warriors but it's only them which I've noticed it: NO MORE pre-casting:

EXAMPLE: Before this update, due to positioning and not being sure exactly WHEN my spells would trigger, I would click them a second or two ahead of time, and when the game synced up enough for my char to be within range, he automatically launched that spell. Now, if I "pre-cast" it and run up to my target, I'll only do normals. And even then, I have to hammer a spell, (like kick or south cross) REPEATEDLY to get it to trigger...and even then it's too late and not in-sync with when I wanted it to go off.

This is VERY annoying and this alone is extremely detrimental to the flow of melee combat.

* I realize you need to tweak some animations, but honestly... the "Running while normal attacking" barb animation is about the goofiest, lamest animation I've seen. I literally laughed out loud and thought "Man, this guy swings his Great Claymore like he's having a pillow-fight"

* Visual cues for archers to do normals and spells is very foggy, and when to stop and when you can move again between attacks is very hard to "guess".

These are my observations, simply as 1 player with 1 frame of mind. I only reall play warriors and archers and don't know much about mages.

VandaMan · 09-17-2009, 12:13 AM

It seems to me that the first attack after moving my hunter takes 2 seconds or more, even though all the following attacks are very quick (due to the +100% attack speed). I'm not sure if it's a bug or not... but if it's intentional then the extra attack speed is rather pointless, since you nearly always must move in between attacks.

Bug? Feature? Just my imagination?

chilko · 09-17-2009, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VandaMan

It seems to me that the first attack after moving my hunter takes 2 seconds or more, even though all the following attacks are very quick (due to the +100% attack speed). I'm not sure if it's a bug or not... but if it's intentional then the extra attack speed is rather pointless, since you nearly always must move in between attacks.

Bug? Feature? Just my imagination?

its not a feature... if it happens its a bug.

We had a bug like this and we fixed it... after we fixed it it still looked as the first shot was slower but it was because of a perception thing (as the animation is different for the first shot)

can you please record this on video and post it on youtube or something to time it?

Shotya · 09-17-2009, 12:38 AM

Guys,

I am currently leveling a hunter (40). I agree 100% with the strafing and back peddling being taken away.
However tanks can still strafe and with this new setup I am completly unable to defend myself properly. I cant turn with them and shoot. I cant move at all and shoot. WTF??? How am I suppose to play my hunter now???? I am NOT a tower humper.
Also Like the guy above said when I stop my hunter the first shot should be faster. Moving forward should not stop a shot period thats wack. What about runners? We have a right to have a decent character as well as everyone else.
I can tell you we are far from over powered when an easy con lock can kick my butt.
Surely you guys can see these errors I have mentioned and will adjust it so my hunter can compete in RvR as an individual or in a party.

chilko · 09-17-2009, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

Realizing this is still 'work in progress'....

* I don't know if this is ONLY for warriors but it's only them which I've noticed it: NO MORE pre-casting:

EXAMPLE: Before this update, due to positioning and not being sure exactly WHEN my spells would trigger, I would click them a second or two ahead of time, and when the game synced up enough for my char to be within range, he automatically launched that spell. Now, if I "pre-cast" it and run up to my target, I'll only do normals. And even then, I have to hammer a spell, (like kick or south cross) REPEATEDLY to get it to trigger...and even then it's too late and not in-sync with when I wanted it to go off.

This is VERY annoying and this alone is extremely detrimental to the flow of melee combat.

Hmmmm.... we will look into this... do you feel as if you fail more spells now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

* I realize you need to tweak some animations, but honestly... the "Running while normal attacking" barb animation is about the goofiest, lamest animation I've seen. I literally laughed out loud and thought "Man, this guy swings his Great Claymore like he's having a pillow-fight"

We are not happy with some of the animations either... the pillow fight comparison is very good

. We are facing limitation of our animation system but we will try to have better results. Remember this is not final.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

* Visual cues for archers to do normals and spells is very foggy, and when to stop and when you can move again between attacks is very hard to "guess".

we will add proper projectiles in the 2.0 update maybe we can do something as a placeholder for better feedback... we know that is difficult to know when you completed the attack playing without sound.

thanks, this is the kind of feedback we need.

_Enio_ · 09-17-2009, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilko

its not a feature... if it happens its a bug.

We had a bug like this and we fixed it... after we fixed it it still looked as the first shot was slower but it was because of a perception thing (as the animation is different for the first shot)

can you please record this on video and post it on youtube or something to time it?

- I second that. It takes 2 seconds with a fast bow to shoot, all hte next shots are much faster, but always the first shot after a move or a turn is delayed by 2+ seconds (it scales a bit with bow speed). It makes close combat literally impossible combined with the facing angle. (quite happy that its seen a bug)

- Another thing is no more precasts. its really a big draawback, hope you add it again.

- Some spell/casttime changes i do not like at all (like eg. retaliation getting a 1 sec casttime - its a very situational selfbuff, a 1 second cast which you have to stand still for kind of removes all the small use that spell had for 3/4 points you spend into it..)

Apart from that, gameplay feels slow and static for me but might be due to the delay bug.

Note: Tested Marksman only

Klutu · 09-17-2009, 12:52 AM

Ive Been having the issue with my spells. (not sure if bug or Intended)

But while buffing it seems my spells are Failing Frenzy/Caution/Tfb and i have had to click on them multiple times after my Global Cooldown was not in affect.

like kyro said i don't like the running attack Aminations they look very uncomfortable and like he said looks like im having a pillowfight.

i also don't like about the global Cooldown is that my Weapons speed does not affect the global Cooldown at all.

To me the faster the Weapon the Shorter the Global Cooldown. but i supose that could be abused.

So far i really like the Update but it needs alot more Testing and Feedback it's nice to see such a change

Cheers

VandaMan · 09-17-2009, 01:13 AM

Warriors can mount a horse while moving... lol

ArchmagusArcana · 09-17-2009, 01:24 AM

I love the GCD, even though it does take away the cast delay advantage of faster weapons, but it seems with slow or faster, you can cast and attack once each, with vslow, its cast and then attack, cast, cast attack. Ill test this more.

I hate cancel of spells from moving, really. If you make it so you cannot move, thats fine, its normal, and natural, but moving canceling is really rough on a mage that must either move or die, as we have no armor. Will make fighting warriors very hard, as they can both cast and attack while moving.

Not sure if this is a bug or not, but as a warrior i can run and cast an area without stopping, and it takes effect when its done casting, but if i start to cast it and move, it cancels.

Still testing......

09-16-2009, 10:41 PM	#1
chilko NGD·Studios Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 892	Combat system test - Amun open Hello everyone, as of now we are opening Amun to start testing and gather feedback on the changes introduced in the combat system there are some known issues that might appear: - some animation glitches or animations that still need adjustments - a rare bug in which you appear to be in combat mode and you are not - warriors being able to throw attacks to corpses One clarification: warriors will throw an attack animation even if they are not really in range in some cases (its like a failed try...) this is intended. proper feedback for this must be added. Also, final adjustments to balance have not been made yet, such as damage, or weapon speeds or arrow costs. tactics for 1vs1 (melee vs. ranged) will change a lot... you will have to start using some spells that might not be that useful before, please remember that the focus is balancing for RvR situations. instead of complaining about how you could take out a single warrior with 3 button presses or without being touched before and not able to do the same thing now, try to find out new tactics to win. Please lets not make this a thread about old system vs. new system or a flame war against us changing something... we really need to gather positive feedback on how to make this work as it is WAY better technically to our previous implementations. best regards, -Chilko Last edited by chilko; 09-16-2009 at 10:52 PM.

09-17-2009, 12:12 AM	#2
Kyrottimus Baron Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Montana, U.S.A. Posts: 690	Realizing this is still 'work in progress'.... I've tested both archer and warrior and here are my observations: Pros: * I like the new archer attack speed, and I feel I can get with the rhythm of normals/spells fairly easily. * I like how with the archers, if you are "not facing" your enemy, your stance is different than when you are facing (bow held close as opposed to held out while aiming). It makes for faster recognition (via animation) instead of waiting for the "you are not facing your enemy" message. * I'm glad archers have had their feet planted (shoulder-width apart as should be) when they fire and I like the new archer animations. Also, not being able to shoot sideways while strafe-kiting is a reasonable. Even with the new "stop while attacking" limitation I was able to get within range of a yellow mob and kill it in 6 hits with it only hitting me once, so grinding is still doable. * I like how warriors can now cast buffs and area spells while on the move, makes for faster gameplay. * I understand the purpose of the Global Cooldown and I like how it was implemented (with full spell-bar yellow timers) * I like the new tree models and textures on things and "fixes" to the game-world, it looks a lot nicer * I like the realm names of characters now reflecting their realm color (light blue, orange, green) instead of the sub-title of clan-name or just realm title being colored. Cons * I don't know if this is ONLY for warriors but it's only them which I've noticed it: NO MORE pre-casting: EXAMPLE: Before this update, due to positioning and not being sure exactly WHEN my spells would trigger, I would click them a second or two ahead of time, and when the game synced up enough for my char to be within range, he automatically launched that spell. Now, if I "pre-cast" it and run up to my target, I'll only do normals. And even then, I have to hammer a spell, (like kick or south cross) REPEATEDLY to get it to trigger...and even then it's too late and not in-sync with when I wanted it to go off. This is VERY annoying and this alone is extremely detrimental to the flow of melee combat. * I realize you need to tweak some animations, but honestly... the "Running while normal attacking" barb animation is about the goofiest, lamest animation I've seen. I literally laughed out loud and thought "Man, this guy swings his Great Claymore like he's having a pillow-fight" * Visual cues for archers to do normals and spells is very foggy, and when to stop and when you can move again between attacks is very hard to "guess". These are my observations, simply as 1 player with 1 frame of mind. I only reall play warriors and archers and don't know much about mages. __________________ Μολὼν λαβέ Kyrottimus: 60 - Barbarian (WM) RIP \|\| Rykor: 60 - Knight (WM) RIP Vanosen Sagesight: 60 - Marksman (WM) RIP \|\| Orykus: 60 - Hunter RIP

09-17-2009, 12:52 AM	#8
Klutu Baron Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 714	Ive Been having the issue with my spells. (not sure if bug or Intended) But while buffing it seems my spells are Failing Frenzy/Caution/Tfb and i have had to click on them multiple times after my Global Cooldown was not in affect. like kyro said i don't like the running attack Aminations they look very uncomfortable and like he said looks like im having a pillowfight. i also don't like about the global Cooldown is that my Weapons speed does not affect the global Cooldown at all. To me the faster the Weapon the Shorter the Global Cooldown. but i supose that could be abused. So far i really like the Update but it needs alot more Testing and Feedback it's nice to see such a change Cheers __________________ Ramsli Klutu

09-17-2009, 01:24 AM	#10
ArchmagusArcana Master Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 357	I love the GCD, even though it does take away the cast delay advantage of faster weapons, but it seems with slow or faster, you can cast and attack once each, with vslow, its cast and then attack, cast, cast attack. Ill test this more. I hate cancel of spells from moving, really. If you make it so you cannot move, thats fine, its normal, and natural, but moving canceling is really rough on a mage that must either move or die, as we have no armor. Will make fighting warriors very hard, as they can both cast and attack while moving. Not sure if this is a bug or not, but as a warrior i can run and cast an area without stopping, and it takes effect when its done casting, but if i start to cast it and move, it cancels. Still testing...... __________________ Alsirian Legion Horus: Wulfgar Heartsfang 50 barb: Arcan Heartsfang 50 Lock RA: Drakonklenok 50 Knight

09-17-2009, 12:13 AM	#3
VandaMan Baron Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 747	It seems to me that the first attack after moving my hunter takes 2 seconds or more, even though all the following attacks are very quick (due to the +100% attack speed). I'm not sure if it's a bug or not... but if it's intentional then the extra attack speed is rather pointless, since you nearly always must move in between attacks. Bug? Feature? Just my imagination?

09-17-2009, 12:38 AM	#5
Shotya Pledge Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 19	Guys, I am currently leveling a hunter (40). I agree 100% with the strafing and back peddling being taken away. However tanks can still strafe and with this new setup I am completly unable to defend myself properly. I cant turn with them and shoot. I cant move at all and shoot. WTF??? How am I suppose to play my hunter now???? I am NOT a tower humper. Also Like the guy above said when I stop my hunter the first shot should be faster. Moving forward should not stop a shot period thats wack. What about runners? We have a right to have a decent character as well as everyone else. I can tell you we are far from over powered when an easy con lock can kick my butt. Surely you guys can see these errors I have mentioned and will adjust it so my hunter can compete in RvR as an individual or in a party.

09-17-2009, 01:13 AM	#9
VandaMan Baron Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 747	Warriors can mount a horse while moving... lol