Most overpowered class?

[Valour]

Not all marksmen are as effective in hunting as him, after all he is one of the best marksmen there is.

He is very good at conserving his mana and using spells and defense at the right times :p

[sathilda]

Yeah, 80% more armor!

And oh, yeah, about double the offensive firepower a hunter has too. And almost 25% more range. And because they share the evasion tree with hunters, they can have darn near as much speed.

Yep...Marksmen aren't overpowered at all. (dripping wet sarcasm)

Less Sudden strike ? For a warlock with Infuriate(5) it's -55% armor (and -30 conc).

Despite the fact that setup sucks, a warlock can "cancel" a marks extra protection(5 to all) with element exposure(5) added to infuriate (that reduces resist damage, not armor points, even more evil... goodbye acrobatics ^^). + mana burn + magma blast + vamprism + sk... who ignores armor.

I think i don't have to make you a scheme about what class is overpowered when it comes to transform an ennemy to some dead meat :angel1:

[Valorius]

Not all marksmen are as effective in hunting as him, after all he is one of the best marksmen there is.
He's not bad, but he doesn't exactly do anything fancy either.

He's just indestructible.

As i said, my normal arrows do 40dmg per attack, and a lvl 50 orc pet does 50 dmg per attack. My lvl 4 dual shot was doing about 120-150dmg per attack.

Meanwhile, once the marksman hits you with death sentence, even base arrows with recharged can kill you in a matter of seconds.

Trust me, i am not making this up. ;)

Less Sudden strike ? For a warlock with Infuriate(5) it's -55% armor (and -30 conc).

Despite the fact that setup sucks, a warlock can "cancel" a marks extra protection(5 to all) with element exposure(5) added to infuriate (that reduces resist damage, not armor points, even more evil... goodbye acrobatics ^^). + mana burn + magma blast + vamprism + sk... who ignores armor.
I have no problems with warlocks. I beat lvl 50 warlocks at least 1/2 the time. (which is a good indicator that hunters and warlocks are well balanced)

I think i don't have to make you a scheme about what class is overpowered when it comes to transform an ennemy to some dead meat :angel1:
I have no idea what that sentence is attempting to convey.

[Valour]

I know the damage ratios for marksman/hunter..

But use of things like sudden strike, confuse, speed reduction, sotw, pet and beastial wrath would certainly knock my marksman down cause I'd be wasting my mana as attacks get evaded by the hunters evasion :/

[Valorius]

I know the damage ratios for marksman/hunter..

But use of things like sudden strike, confuse, speed reduction, sotw, pet and beastial wrath would certainly knock my marksman down cause I'd be wasting my mana as attacks get evaded by the hunters evasion :/
The "defensive" Marksmen has all the same evasion rate as a hunter PLUS 80% more armor.

AND more powerful attacks. It's a defensive hunter on super-duper steroids.

Sudden strike- Marksman has it
Confuse- marksman has it
Speed reduction- marksman has it
SOTW- marksman has it
Beastial wrath- makes your pet super easy to kill. A marksman can just go SOTW and tear it to pieces with recharged arrows with ease. If you skin of the beast, then beastial, he can counter with death sentence/SOTW, if neccesary.

Once the pet is dead, you're stuck with a 40dmg per attack base attack, and a 120-150 dmg per attack spell attack, while he's nailing you with 400-500hp dmg recharged arrows (or worse).

[sathilda]

I have no idea what that sentence is attempting to convey.
You should... i'm bored to see you running away if i have the good luck that you don't resist to my dear infuriate (5) !

Hunters have no powerful spell but a few one on tricks (caltrop's arrow is bad ass, confuse is nice despite the fact that hunters seems to hate it...), all is based on the players' way of playing.

Warlocks are the opposite with a proper setup and, i agree on that, not alone.

[Valorius]

I use caltrips (LOVE that spell) and confuse. :)

A lot of hunters seem to not cast confuse on warlocks, thinking it's not worth it. (DMC for one doesn't see the use of confuse at all, he's told me as much). I personally think it's a great spell for use on warlocks cause it shuts down the locks ability to cast his defensive shield and some of his non damage causing offensive spells. Like infuriate. :-P

[misaccc]

Wait valorius are you saying both barbs and marks are overpowered?...
Seems to me you got to learn to play your class better....

[ljwolfe]

too bad this isn't a pvp game but it's an rvr game. most classes do just fine vs. marksman. Sorry that hunters can't pwn every class. it's fucking goddamn pathetic that people with multiple getaway skills have to come whine about a class that isn't leading rps in the game.

go gank lowbie levellers at the enemy gates, with your IWIN camo that gives you the get out of jail free. let's discuss the combination of the evasion tree, perma speed and camo, shall we?

[ljwolfe]

just had 20 evades in a row vs a hunter and he did not have sotw up. most overpowered class again?

p.s. 30+ shots evaded, blocks or hitting for 0. in a row. overpowered? at least hunters can send the pet in when the anti archery iwin spells go up.

[DkySven]

Like Sathilda said, jus ise sudden strike when you want to make your base damage higher. Use tear apart, stunning fist, ambush, etc. And if you use the evasion tree, the only thing a marksman has in defense ahead of you is strategic position.

[fluffy_muffin]

He is very good at conserving his mana and using spells and defense at the right times :p
Oh yes he is ;] and now i probably i know why i didn't seen his buffs. If it is what i think then this is great ambush ;p

[ncvr]

Like Sathilda said, jus ise sudden strike when you want to make your base damage higher. Use tear apart, stunning fist, ambush, etc. And if you use the evasion tree, the only thing a marksman has in defense ahead of you is strategic position.
"Those spells don't count if they don't hit".

Lame but valid arguement.

[Valorius]

just had 20 evades in a row vs a hunter and he did not have sotw up. most overpowered class again?

p.s. 30+ shots evaded, blocks or hitting for 0. in a row. overpowered? at least hunters can send the pet in when the anti archery iwin spells go up.
This is a fallacious argument. Marksmen have the exact same evasion skills and potential as hunters. They evade just as many arrows, and absorb FAR LESS DAMAGE per arrow that hits them than a hunter does. And the hunter is firing much weaker arrows, whereas the marksman fires much stronger arrows.

So,

"Defensive" Marksman= 80% more armor, and about 100% more firepower.
Hunter= 80% less armor, and bout 1/2 the firepower.

So you're actually making my argument for me. A 'defensive marksman' has all the evasion of a hunter, 80% more armor, AND more offense.

Like Sathilda said, jus ise sudden strike when you want to make your base damage higher. Use tear apart, stunning fist, ambush, etc. And if you use the evasion tree, the only thing a marksman has in defense ahead of you is strategic position.
First- I know how to play, thank you.(Seriously, you think i don't already use sudden strike or DOT spells? WTF...)

Second- Strategic positioning is 80% more armor. That is a MASSIVE increase.

Third- Sudden strike vs a modified armor class of 1800+ is not going to do very much, is it?
Conversely, sudden strike vs a hunters 1000+(with defensive tactics lvl 5) will have a much greater impact. Not to mention the fact that marksmen have a little spell called death sentence.

Finally- A marksman can hit you with death sentence AND sudden strike in succession, and you have an effective armor class of virtually nothing. What's more, ethereal armor outright ignores all armor to begin with.

Hell, with death sentence and sudden strike, all it would take is base recharged arrows to decimate the hunter, the marksman doesn't even need any other offensive spells.

But continue to deny the obvious...

Strategic positioning needs to be replaced with something else.

[DkySven]

Yes, I agree that strategic position needs a penalty, it's strategic position, not strategic movement.

[misaccc]

- 15-25% movement speed sounds ok to me...

[Valorius]

I would say it should have 'at least' 25%.

Perhaps for lvl 1 strat pos= -25% move, for lvl 2= -30% move, etc, etc. It should also have a very long cast time as well, and (if it doesn't already) it sould -definitely- require you to stop.

Personally, i think it just makes more sense to change the spell into some sort of offensive power. Marksmen are -offensive- class. Hunters are -defensive-
(personally, i don't consider the hunter a defensive class at all either.)

Yet marksmen have 80% more defense potential than any hunter...

[ncvr]

I think some of the spells in Evasion should be moved to Scouting.

Definately SotW since, as already mentioned, the marksman could cast Recharged arrows, Death sentence and Sudden strike and also Dirty Fighting which would make normal shots with either bow extremely high.

Not sure about Spell Elude, but there's no way a "walking cannon" could "move constantly to reduce spell impact chances".

Acrobatic is fine as it is, it isn't that powerful and also it would create a lot of whining from the certain group of marksmen who don't know how to adjust to changes.

Also I agree to the changes proposed about Strategic Position.

[misaccc]

No that would be crap...it should have max -25% speed on all levels with same casting time...

[ncvr]

Ooh really?

I think Mana Pylon and Protection Dome should have instant casting as well, all tracking spells too :)

[Mattdoesrock]

I agree with Necrovarus and Red.

I'd be interesting to see how people play without millions of marks precasting it before a fight; due to the -25% movement.

[ncvr]

This is off-topic, but Smiley2k/TemptTeenIn (sp?) could you please not vote on both accounts? Thanks :)

[misaccc]

Ooh really?

I think Mana Pylon and Protection Dome should have instant casting as well, all tracking spells too :)

thats crap...strategic is a sefl buff while these are auras...

[ncvr]

The descriptions require you to do similar things, which would all be hard to do in an instant.

Fine then. I still have my back-up arguement :D

I think camouflage should be instant casting.

[Smiley2k7]

This is off-topic, but Smiley2k/TemptTeenIn (sp?) could you please not vote on both accounts? Thanks :)
Oops I'm sorry :bounce: I was about to change the password but I couldnt help i forgot the pass :imstupid:

[magnet]

Just so you know Strategic Position has a casting time already.
This is a free spell, and it is too much precisely because of the Evasion tree. Remove the tree and the spell will be just fine.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Less Sudden strike ? For a warlock with Infuriate(5) it's -55% armor (and -30 conc).

Despite the fact that setup sucks, a warlock can "cancel" a marks extra protection(5 to all) with element exposure(5) added to infuriate (that reduces resist damage, not armor points, even more evil... goodbye acrobatics ^^). + mana burn + magma blast + vamprism + sk... who ignores armor.

I think i don't have to make you a scheme about what class is overpowered when it comes to transform an ennemy to some dead meat :angel1:
hmm yeah let's see if this combo keeps up against the hunter ;).

[ljwolfe]

Go ahead and nerf strategic position. It is over the top. No way remove sotw from marksmen only. Take it away from both archers or leave it as is.

[Anpu]

why dont u remove evasive tactics but strategic position? :)

[Angelwinged_Devil]

why dont u remove evasive tactics but strategic position? :)
because an offensive class shouldn't tank?

[CumeriTarenes]

nah, there are no defensive and offensive classes...there are classes that purpose it is to do damage and there are classes that purpose it is to support.

but, I guess anpu talked in a way of sarcasm.

[Anpu]

ah now its offensive :)
well, removing evasive tactics, moving its penalty on strategic position is same thing, maybe bit nerfing marksmen too but might worth. also, head of the pack for hunters is stupid spell, they attack solo(mostly) or in some party, while marksman is always surrounded with ppl in fort war. instead of head of the pack, u can get spell "blame", which was in developing phase on place where is now escapist. but if u get blame, u should not have sotw, because it would be chaos. hunters have passive speed + mobility+ escapist, marksmen then mobility+sotw+escapist for moving. balance in moving. :)

ah yea, spell blame was about making mobs around agrro on enemy within some range.

and so on and so on... bored to type atm

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Marksman: Offensive discipline. Increases the player's ability to make damaging attacks.

nubcake

anpu this is a teamgame so they make teamspells, how is removing head of the pack going to make it more teambased for hunters?

[Envy]

nubcake



Offensive and defensive are just lamens terms IMO. I mean look at this:

Hunter: Defensive discipline. Allows the player to train a pet and use skills to make a target easier to hit.

What does "defensive" have to do with the the next sentence at all?

[Valorius]

Just so you know Strategic Position has a casting time already.
This is a free spell, and it is too much precisely because of the Evasion tree. Remove the tree and the spell will be just fine.
Remove the spell, and the tree will be fine. ;)

why dont u remove evasive tactics but strategic position? :)
Because both archer classes get Evasive tactics.

nubcake

anpu this is a teamgame so they make teamspells, how is removing head of the pack going to make it more teambased for hunters?
Head of the Pack is pretty lame. I agree with Anpu, i would much prefer Blame over Head of the Pack, not that Blame ever worked right...but it was at least a very cool- and class appropriate- skill.

[UmarilsStillHere]

i dont know y we make these threads they all ways turn into hate wars

[Valorius]

i second signatus conjurers are so powerful at pvp if they become warjurers are so powerful
I fought Ignis warjuror Axe by PB1 the other day 3 times. He smoked me the first two times(i couldnt believe it, i normally handle conjs easily, with or without zarkits), and in the third fight when i was -finally- winning (though not by much), a cyclops elite had to go and bash him 2x on the skull.

Bah!

I look forward to our rematch, whenever or where-ever it may occur. ;)

MOD + slow is 30 seconds or better of dizzy and few battles last that long. So yes infinite dizzy does exist....
MoD is a nasty, nasty spell.

[magnet]

I fought Ignis warjuror Axe by PB1 the other day 3 times. He smoked me the first two times(i couldnt believe it, i normally handle conjs easily, with or without zarkits), and in the third fight when i was -finally- winning (though not by much), a cyclops elite had to go and bash him 2x on the skull.

Bah!

I look forward to our rematch, whenever or where-ever it may occur. ;)


Check your log, Axe is especially known for being a cheater who uses Curse level 1 and makes all your spells evade; maybe he stopped since, I hope so.


MoD is a nasty, nasty spell.

I think MoD should last 20s at lv 1 and get +10s by level. I used to think otherwise but I have changed my mind now that I play other classes. Right now it is cheap and there are many more Warlocks at war so it should be changed.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

What does "defensive" have to do with the the next sentence at all?
it's about how you play, you can play defensively and offensively. A defensive attack could be the stalking that hunters do, or they shield knights point to their enemies before they reach them.

[Valorius]

Check your log, Axe is especially known for being a cheater who uses Curse level 1 and makes all your spells evade; maybe he stopped since, I hope so.
I didn't take screen shots and only glanced through the logs. Next time i run into him i'll check the log thoroughly afterwards.

[Envy]

I didn't take screen shots and only glanced through the logs. Next time i run into him i'll check the log thoroughly afterwards.

I'm sure he doesn't do that anymore.

[Vodka92]

Well I did it sometime ago but guys told me about the bug so I wont use it anymore

In the fights with Valorious I didnt used it but I have to say nice fight Valorious

PS: Could you let me alone I only want to train :( I want 50

Greets Axe

[ncvr]

it's about how you play, you can play defensively and offensively. A defensive attack could be the stalking that hunters do, or they shield knights point to their enemies before they reach them.
How does stalking have anything to do with defense?

It's defending your realm mates but only if it's done on the land of your own realm. And 90% of the time hunters hunt in enemy realms.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

How does stalking have anything to do with defense?

it's a defensive attack, if you sneak in on them it's pretty defensive. If you debuff them before attacking it would be offensive, if you buff yourself up to make the opponents miss it's defensive if you debuff the enemy to make him hit you less it's offensive