Mumble: Positional Audio

[Miraculix]

I just wanted to ask this, maybe someone knows:

Since RO, after the patch hits the live servers, will be transmitting positional data to Mumble, is there a mumble plugin of some sort that displays a window with everyone's position? I know it redirects audio to make it sound like someone is speaking from the direction their character is at, but the information about the position is there, is there some way to visualy display them as well, apart from sonically?

I assume that since the positional audio works with the user as the center and everyone else's position is relative to the user, but even that would be a useful window to have, smth like a cross in the center and dots for everyone around you... :)

[Mellion]

I am waiting for that since starting with Regnum.

[Ertial]

Yay! Mumble positional audio support!
I think they're using the Mumble Link (http://mumble.sourceforge.net/Link) plugin, like I've suggested (http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=28412) before.
That would be the easiest way.
I think it would be possible to create a map showing the location of the players, but doing so by using the Mumble Link plugin is more a task of Mumble than of NGD.

[chilko]

look guys,

the radar (top right of the screen) will become a true radar when we have the time...

so no need to start looking for 3rd party tools :)

regards,

Chilko

[Miraculix]

look guys,

the radar (top right of the screen) will become a true radar when we have the time...

so no need to start looking for 3rd party tools :)

regards,

Chilko

Nice, I'm looking forward to this!

[fluffy_muffin]

look guys,

the radar (top right of the screen) will become a true radar when we have the time...

so no need to start looking for 3rd party tools :)

regards,

Chilko

So what is pupose of hunter tracking skills then?

[ljrossi]

So what is pupose of hunter tracking skills then?


Its suposed we will see allied friends, not enemy.

[monktbd]

So what is pupose of hunter tracking skills then?

I would assume it shows only allies and only where there is someone. It won't show class and level.
Maybe it will be restricted to parties and/or clans as well.

[Miraculix]

By the way, I spoke with the mumble developers, in particular with one of the guys that was involved in the positional audio feature - there is no way currently implemented that supports visual representation of positional data. The data is embedded in the packets that the mumble client receives though, but in order to extract that data you would have to mess with mumble source.

By the way, they told me that anything that links to mumble has to be GPL'd, and that includes positional audio plugins from games. Just a heads-up to NGD :p

[surak]

By the way, I spoke with the mumble developers, in particular with one of the guys that was involved in the positional audio feature - there is no way currently implemented that supports visual representation of positional data. The data is embedded in the packets that the mumble client receives though, but in order to extract that data you would have to mess with mumble source.

By the way, they told me that anything that links to mumble has to be GPL'd, and that includes positional audio plugins from games. Just a heads-up to NGD :p

Ugh. You mean using this (http://mumble.sourceforge.net/Link) is considered 'linking'? If that's the case, mumble support will have to be removed :/

[Ertial]

Ugh. You mean using this (http://mumble.sourceforge.net/Link) is considered 'linking'? If that's the case, mumble support will have to be removed :/
Sssshh! If we keep it quiet and don't warn gpl-violations.org, there is nothing to worry about.

But is calling functions considered the use of GPL-ed code? Maybe the given examples are, but if you come with an own implementation it shouldn't be too much of a problem? I asked Identi.ca/Twitter, maybe they'll know.

[surak]

It's calling only operating system API's. The only thing coming from mumble in that piece of code is the LinkedMem structure, I guess.

[fluffy_muffin]

Its suposed we will see allied friends, not enemy.
Then i want something instead of track ally.

[Ulmanyar]

Then i want something instead of track ally.

Track treasure - to compensate for high arrows cost. Or perhaps track bierstube :beerchug:

EDIT: Ehm. Sorry for OT. Perhaps I could say something useful too: is there a way to turn such a hideous feature off? Or is it actually useful?

[Miraculix]

It's calling only operating system API's. The only thing coming from mumble in that piece of code is the LinkedMem structure, I guess.
I will ask for specifics surak, I'll let you know.

I know for a fact that compile-time linking of GPL'd software and non-GPL software is not allowed by GPL itself. The code in that pages does not appear to be under GPL, and is not even a library so I think that should not be the problem.

As for the plugin itself, if you #include any library that is under GPL, you will have to release the plugin under GPL, as it will be linked with the library at compile-time.

Also, if I am not mistaken, GPL v3.0 does not allow run-time linking with non-GPL'ed software.

[Miraculix]

[21:51:37] <Miraculix_> question: are the game plugins for positional audio only allowed to be under GPL?
[22:20:29] <Snares_> Miraculix_: Good question...I would say "no" from a purely techincal standpoint...but to get the plugins into the SVN probably yes, because I don't think slicer would include a plugin in the installer or SVN if it was not a GPL license.
[22:20:37] <Snares_> technical*
[22:20:54] <Snares_> dD0T: I believe it is a moderately modified version of the source engine, yes.
[22:20:57] <Miraculix_> okey but if it was distributed by the game devs?
[22:21:21] <dD0T> Miraculix_: Game devs don't need to create one
[22:21:27] <dD0T> Miraculix_: They can use the link plugin
[22:21:38] <dD0T> Miraculix_: You just need to add like 10 lines of code to your app
[22:21:39] <Snares_> Miraculix_: Why would one not want to license it under the GPL, even a game dev?
[22:21:45] <Snares_> Miraculix_: For safety purposes?
[22:21:47] <Miraculix_> ok if they do, they're not bound by GPL are they?
[22:21:56] <Snares_> Miraculix_: I don't think so, no.
[22:22:08] <Snares_> Miraculix_: Only the 10 lines of code are I'm guessing :D
[22:22:16] <Miraculix_> well i quoted someone from here last night, think it was dD0T
[22:22:27] <Miraculix_> who said if anything is linking to mumble it should be gpl'd
[22:22:39] <Miraculix_> to one of the devs of the game that is about to support PA for mumble
[22:22:48] <Snares_> Miraculix_: Well...obviously L4D isn't a GPL game is it?
[22:22:50] <Snares_> Haha
[22:22:54] <Miraculix_> yeah :p
[22:23:55] <dD0T> Maybe they included the license display in the eula so nobody has seen it yet ;-)
[22:24:02] <Snares_> Miraculix_: I think you misunderstood him. No, of course not. Now, the plugin itself will need to be GPL if it is to be included in the SVN or the installer (if I understand correctly). However, I believe that a game developer could put a proprietary license on his part of the plugin dll, and could thereby include the DLL as their property with the game.
[22:24:37] <Snares_> They could not claim ownership of the Mumble_plugin.cpp or whatever it's called though.
[22:24:45] <Snares_> Just the code they write themselves for the plugin.
[22:24:56] <dD0T> Why would a developer want to reverse his own program? He can just use the link plugin ;-)
[22:25:01] <Snares_> (afaik) :)
[22:25:02] <dD0T> See the wiki for further information
[22:25:05] <Hijacker> they wouldnt need a plugin at all, if they included the code in their own game
[22:25:17] <Miraculix_> they're using link
[22:25:26] <Miraculix_> but they didnt know if that was bound by GPL
[22:25:32] <dD0T> Noooo
[22:25:36] <dD0T> It is BSD
[22:25:38] <Hijacker> and that code doesnt come with an special licence i think (maybe bsd, which would allow them to do whatever they want with it anyway) and if they add that code to their own game, nothing needs to be "linked" with mumble anyway. so no license issues
[22:25:40] <dD0T> (it think
[22:25:40] <Miraculix_> great :)
[22:26:50] <Snares_> Miraculix_: What game is going to have a positional plugin?
[22:27:09] <Miraculix_> Regnum Online
[22:27:32] <Miraculix_> www.regnumonline.com.ar (http://www.regnumonline.com.ar)
[22:27:44] <Miraculix_> mmorpg with focus on player vs player, really nice :p
[22:28:24] <Snares_> Miraculix_: Awesome. I really hope they do this. Whenever game devs do this it spreads support of the application (Mumble).
[22:34:09] <slicer> None of the Mumble source is GPL. It's BSD.
[22:34:36] <slicer> And if you support the Link plugin, you can use any damn license you please, as you're just using a shared memory interface.
[22:35:59] <Miraculix_> thanks slicer :)
[22:36:46] <Snares_> slicer: How about if they write their own dll for the game? How can they license that? Say, if dD0T wanted could he make his own license for the cod4 plugin?
[22:38:12] <slicer> Snares_: To be honest, I'm not sure.
[22:38:53] <slicer> Snares_: But that's the purpose of the Link plugin. If you are the game author, use the Link plugin, as that bypasses all licensing issues since you're not linking with Mumble.

So you're good to go, no licence problems :p

[Kiirani]

Honestly if I were an open source developer and wanted games to use a plugin to link to my open source program, I'd release the plugin code as LGPL or a similar license, not GPL. I believe that allows it to be used in closed source software.

[surak]

So you're good to go, no licence problems :p

:guitar: :guitar:

[Inkster]

from testing the positional audio on test server it works great, looking forward to this going live

[Miraculix]

from testing the positional audio on test server it works great, looking forward to this going live

did you try speaking to ppl far away? how far can you be before you stop hearing each other?

[Torin_Ironfist]

50-100m should be the max O.o

[padreigh]

You can speak to them all you want.
Mumble has settings that lower the volume from 100% to 50% based on the range they are in

f.e.
Mumblesettings:
50m min range
100m max range

All ppl in 50m get 100% volume, ppl in 100m get 50% volume, in between its (linearly) scaled volume (if i understood it correct).

Its really cool feature, greatly enhancing crys for assistent if a battleparty got a bit spread out due to following different targets.

[ljrossi]

Any list of servers avaible? sugestion ?

[Arafails]

IPC with GPL code is fine for any license from the GPL's point of view. All you're doing is writing to a memory region is reads from.

Awesome feature.
As for servers, since the recent upgrade, clanfr.eu has a pretty good service.