sucide dead and fort wars

[kamax]

Hi, a lot of people just sucide themself to kill someone on a fort wars, mostly people who must take back there forts. They just don't care about dead because the save is just behind and are back very fast.

It's not really tactical war doing like that. People should try to stay alive but why ? What can be changed that people(mostly archers) no more run to dead to kill someone and play more tactics ?

Give some bonus on each dead to the owner of the fort like gold(from the dead guy), xp, more guards, necro ..... ?

It would be great if each dead bring something but only on fort wars, not hunting.

What do you think about this sucide story and have you another idea to avoid this problem and have better wars ?

[gupta]

Hmm lets see... People of over populated realms make such suggestions without having any idea how hard it is for 5 - 8 (4 of who are generally lvl 30-40) guys trying to fight zergs.

Now you want to take away equipment (a weird thread actually suggested that) and you want to take gold and you want to weaken us further by necro

Cool. Do it. And see if the 5-8 that stand to try and give you a fight even bother to do that...

[Znurre]

Well Kamax...
I understand what you mean, but to me this is a valid tactic.

Sometimes when you are outnumbered the best tactic is to coordinate, focus fire on let's say 3 players and take them out before you die.
If you're lucky some of these are conjurers and those kills will then make a really big impact on the fight.

Sometimes we coordinate areas, when Syrtis or Ignis has twice the amount of players at pinos than we do.
Then we will try to flank you, maybe from Orc Camp or behind following the fort wall.
Sometimes we manage to kill a lot, sometimes none - but it's still a valid tactic that manages us to have a chance to recapture our forts.

And tell me...
If this player manages to chase one of your players and kill him, is there not something YOU should take responsibility to fix by protecting your players better?
Atleast I cannot imagine an archer attacking you, for example, when you stand in the middle of your own army and not get attacked by your friends.

Finally, if this change was implemented it would greatly favor the ranged classes since truth is they generally die less than close combat classes.

[Twinkle1]

MMMM how can i put this nicely!!!!

That is one of my fav parts of a fort fight or any fight , suiciding to break the enemy up a bit is a very important part of our tactics, and i would be very pissed if i was to be giving you my items or gold just because of it .

I personally dont think its fair that Alsius get zerged at forts, uneven amounts of players make it very hard for Alsius to break through the line to retrieve our fort back, so im afraid that suicide runs are the way we have to do it sometimes.

Add the fact that some enemy players come to the save to kill us as we rez so we cant get back to the fort , should they be penalised by taking there items and gold. and i dont want to hear about they get xp taken away from them because it does not stop them doing it.

In fact, if the attacing army is smaller that the defending army the smaller group should be the one to get any bonus due to the challenge.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Do not like :p

Yes it would make it even harder for underpopulated realms, and its not like they dont already not bother trying a lot of the time...

Alsius Ra I respected as a skilled fighting force that would rarely give in and could always summon up an army, because they were prepared to fight.

Alsius Horus on the other hand will sometimes get a decent force together... try 3-4 times then give up, and thats if they can get enough people to stop grinding and go fight in the first place.

[_dracus_]

Suicide is a tactic!

[UmarilsStillHere]

Suicide is a tactic!

Long live the SSS!
Syrtian Suicide Squad

[Mattdoesrock]

Hell. To. The. No.

There's nothing wrong with charging out knowing you're going to die, as long as you take someone don't with you. I do it all the time.

If I can kill an enemy conju before I die, great. But ANY kind of malnus for ANY type of RvR death? That's a firm no.

[Ulmanyar]

When I still used MoD (ok, that was before the nerf ;) ) suicide rushes was usually one of the best ways to at least even out the odds a little when we were totally outnumbered. I remember fighting on the hill from old Trelle save and coordinated Terror + MoD rushes was the only thing that helped sometimes. And yes, it was nothing but pure suicide.

And do you really think NGD would implement this? They just increased the running speed and introduced "Cremation" - one interpretation of that is that NGD somehow wants us to run back and forth from saves and forts a lot more?

[Dannboy]

Syrtis would never use this tactic...would they?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorched-earth

[kamax]

If this player manages to chase one of your players and kill him, is there not something YOU should take responsibility to fix by protecting your players better?
I can protect my friends only again warriors and mage, marks shoot from too far away and if they come in my range with sotw running after a half dead friend, i can just do nothing with my poor normal hit.


Atleast I cannot imagine an archer attacking you, for example, when you stand in the middle of your own army and not get attacked by your friends.

Hard to imagine but it really happend, i don't know it the lag help or too many players on the screen but i see very often archer who just run into a big group of syrtis to finish one of my friends and of course die just after. Marks can do this job very fast.

Finally, if this change was implemented it would greatly favor the ranged classes since truth is they generally die less than close combat classes.
Yes it's a problem, specially for barbs.
.... should they be penalised by taking there items and gold....
Items no, should not be stolen, i never say that.

Sometimes when you are outnumbered the best tactic is to coordinate, focus fire on let's say 3 players and take them out before you die.
If you're lucky some of these are conjurers and those kills will then make a really big impact on the fight.
Of course, each time asluis attack us on a war(like trell) someone syrtis die, not only alsuis. That's why the bonus/malus from dead can go in the two ways with an advantage of the underpopulated group.
Like if syrtis has trell and we are 2x more that alsuis, someone in alsuis kill a syrtis and receive 2x more(something...) that if an syrtis kill an alsuis.

Maybe gold or xp is a bad suggestion but another thing can be great and help the underpopulated realm. I don't want that the most populated realm farm on the head of underpopulated realm.
That's why i ask you "if", only suppose something can be done, what can be done.

Maybe it can give heal/mana to someone who kill or something like a invulnerable/protection bonus for x time with the 2x ratio for alsuis and 0.5x for syrtis like y say it before because he take a part of the soul from the dead guy.
Of course no bonus for people doing save camping, maybe it can be inverted for save campers, each people they kill on the save give the bonus to the guy who resurect instead of the killer.
Maybe the bonus can be keept for the good moment and activated with an icon.

A bonus can be give too for guys who don't die but only under fire, like that warriors will receive more bonus that archers who are less under fire. A stay alive bonus ? Of course with ratio or someting else who don't give more advantage of most populated but only to people who play well..or are lucky :p.

I understand that atm sucide is a tactics but please don't stay in this way and imagine another way of fighting, with bonus on dead and ratio this can be fair for everybody. This will bring better quality fights if both side care about dead.

We must just find the correct bonus(or malus?) who can be great.

[Inkster]

Syrtis would never use this tactic...would they?


You should know ^^


EDIT: KAMAX just shush

[kamax]

EDIT: KAMAX just shush
I just want a better gameplay for everyone but if you love to have the ass kicked by syrtis sometimes for long hours on a fort and give us our rp... ok :D

But it's just boring and too easy for us(Syrtis) to kick alsuis ass on a fort. I spend most of my young warlock life in ignis because it's more challenging. Syrtis go to alsuis only to camp not to fight and a lot of good players don't want to go in alsuis because it's too easy.

Now i paly more in alsuis so i can watch TV on the same time on my 2nd screen or eat some food in peace between 2 rp farming session.

I can shut up if you want and continue to farm rps in this land, i have no problem with that, i'm not in a underpopulated realm :p

[Mattdoesrock]

I really don't see the problem here.

So what if someone charges into your ranks and finishes someone off? The attacker will die; and you can rez the victim anyway.

There's no need for any stupid bonus or anything like that regarding this subject.

[kamax]

Of course but this don't give great gameplay. All around the forum people say they want to more use skills instead of stupidly spamming areas...and sucide for spamming this areas.

If people care about dead this will give better fights because it's harder to fight and go a little back to stay alive and recover heal/mana. People will more use his brain to fight instead of stupidly run to dead.

In the same time this can resolve the problem of underpopulated realm with the ratio bonus. The devs can draw a circle(or elipse) around each forts (400m?) who include the save to calculate the ratio(each 60s?). Only in this war zone are bonus to prevent hunters who kill a lot of people far away and come with the bag full of bonus.

In your example if only one guy run to dead it's not really important most of the case but if a entire group run to dead they do a lot of dead who can't be revived on the same time. It's like an abuse strategy because the save is near for the suciding people.

In the same time this give you a reason to play well if you have a "stay alive bonus" (under conditions of course).

[Brother-brian]

Hi, a lot of people just sucide themself to kill someone on a fort wars, mostly people who must take back there forts. They just don't care about dead because the save is just behind and are back very fast.

It's not really tactical war doing like that. People should try to stay alive but why ? What can be changed that people(mostly archers) no more run to dead to kill someone and play more tactics ?

Give some bonus on each dead to the owner of the fort like gold(from the dead guy), xp, more guards, necro ..... ?

It would be great if each dead bring something but only on fort wars, not hunting.

What do you think about this sucide story and have you another idea to avoid this problem and have better wars ?
Rps not enough anymore? lol. Maybe you would like every player to bleed ximerin as well.

If this happened, you will get no fight at all. we will all move to knube zone to preserve our belongings and gold, maybe plant a garden, maybe build a compound.

BTW, I think a new power "Suicide Bomb" or something would be awesome. a nice, mid-lvl power, that is only good for taking 1 enemy out with you (dont want it to be considered "overpowered, but make it something a lvl 35 can use to be more helpful). Call it "Ultimate Sacrifice" or something.

Viva La Alsius! (boom)

Brian

[kamax]

Rps not enough anymore? lol. Maybe you would like every player to bleed ximerin as well.

If this happened, you will get no fight at all. we will all move to knube zone to preserve our belongings and gold, maybe plant a garden, maybe build a compound.

BTW, I think a new power "Suicide Bomb" or something would be awesome. a nice, mid-lvl power, that is only good for taking 1 enemy out with you (dont want it to be considered "overpowered, but make it something a lvl 35 can use to be more helpful). Call it "Ultimate Sacrifice" or something.

Viva La Alsius! (boom)

Brian
Have you read the entire tread ? I suppose no....I propose other bonus,the first idea was only a "concept idea", just read all.

[Signatus]

I think zerging, for much painful and annoying it is, seldomly provides a good gaming experience and effective training of skills (and a lot less RP since it's divided for a larger amount of players). What I see is many Alsius players, when on fair numbers, eradicating completely their opponents that aren't used to match up on fair fights.

Honestly, of the 3 realms, Alsius is the one to conserve a better Realm unity after so many game modifications, and I envy them for it. They may be outnumbered but never give up, and that fecking defines them! xD

Let's just hope NGD brings a RvR balance between melee and ranged and hopefully we will see Alsius warriors teaming up again for some severe pawnage...

[Brother-brian]

Agree, when pretty evenly matched. Alsius ROCKS. But a fair fight is a rare thing indeed in Alsius WZ. We had one a few days ago, at Trell fort. Had a lot of fun, died a few times, and didnt really mind it. Its usually "5 against 1 is Ignis fun", though.

Brian

[ArchmagusArcana]

I am getting sick and tired of people from overpopulated realms suggesting bullshit like this to make an already underpowered realm even worse. As mentioned there is someones idea of possibly losing items (have fun fighting a war alone), and now this. As a member of Alsius on both Ra and Horus, and with both of them being underpopulated in relation to the other 2 realms, a suicide run is a perfectly valid option; run in, kill a conj and hope your friends can take out another, that can easily turn the tide in a fort battle, ive seen it time and time again. That is the entire advantage in defending your forts.....you obviously wouldnt do this when attacking an enemy fort....for us, its often the only advantage that we have most of the time, since, as gupt mentioned, we are almost always outnumbered, and half of the people that come to fight are low-mid levels with a small handful of high levels thrown in. Its frustrating and its not fun, and the result of this idea of yours would be ignis and syrtis fighting over both their forts and ours, since we would be too broke to afford weapons and armor, let alone arrows or upgrades.

I agree with the comment about zerg tactics failing; in Horus, syrtis tends to zerg a lot and they are by far an easier opponent than Ignis, who tend to actually fight with some cohesion....i think alsius falls somewhere in between the two.....at least on horus.

If i come off as pissy, well im sorry, but i see suggestions like this all the time from the people in the most populated realms and enough is enough, introduce some realm balance, get warriors working right again, give us all the same quest items (yeah, lightning ring), and when all other aspect are equal, then suggest something like this.



We will fight, and we may die, but we will take out as many of our enemies as we can, as often as we can, however we can.

[kamax]

Well, if alsuis rocks or not is not the subject of this tread. Each realm works differently due to his population number.

Running to dead is is the actual most used strategy because the rule of the game actualy don't care about dead, except for rp but this bring nothing. This give people running forward like robots and spamming areas. It's the easy way(noob way?) to win.

Just try to stay alive if you can on some wars when you don't have any counter invasion running and you will see that you can have a lot of fun and still kill a lot of people. I do it all the time and have a lot of fun and can kill many players before i die, and i play warlock, it' very hard to stay alive. With this way of playing, if everybody take care about dead, the best group win.

Now the group who win can be the group A who run fast from the save back or on the group B with the most conju to revive fast enough.

[ArchmagusArcana]

What about people aura/area spamming at the gates. when there is actually a chance to hit something? It is not possible unless your enemy are imob to hit them with warrior areas....one step back and its done; even deafening roar with its low cast time is pretty hard to hit with. Even at fort doors i almost never hit with areas, so i just dont use them anymore, why spend the points on something that is essentially worthless and comes in to play rarely?

I could say, why player spam? It comes down to the same thing, though IMO player spamming is far worse than area spamming, at least you are making an effort to fight when you are down instead of throwing numbers at it.

It is far far easier to stay alive as a warlock than as a barb, ive played both at forts and at hunts and die far less frequently with my warlock than with my barb.

I do agree that some conju dont care to revive their dead, or wont heal or give mana to certain classes, especially at fort wars (not usually in my realm), but as a whole this is rare. I tend to hang back and protect my comrades when i play barb or knight, many dont, but it all just depends on what your priorities are i guess.

The huge problem with your suggestion is that it grossly hurts an underpopulated realm you can weigh it with a sliding scale all you want but numbers dont lie, if you are outnumbered 5 to 20, even if you get a 100% whatever bonus for each on you kill and they get 1% you are still going to end up getting the shorter end of an even shorter stick because you are usually dead before you can even make a scratch, especially when all they have to do is take one step back to get off the wall.

[Ygarl]

Well Kamax...
Sometimes we coordinate areas, when Syrtis or Ignis has twice the amount of players at pinos than we do.

Horus Ignis has twice as many people as another Realm???? Dunno how THAT happened! Lol;)

[Mattdoesrock]

Since when was this a Horus specific forum?

¬¬

[Kittypretty]

well when i Conj,

im the last to die, since im not dumb enough to run outside, and take my death as bravely as possible when the doors break...in sanc will kissing another player..and my own ass goodbye.

[survive]

Running away to save your RPs, that is what you want the game to become? Someone attacks, and then flees like a coward, while you stand victorious, that you fought them off? If it was war, it is do or die, there is no defeated. Sometimes it takes a crazy suicidal bomber to make the front line push. Sometimes it is just to harry the enemy and get them befuddled, where they lose focus, and can be controlled.

Besides we are all just pawns in NGD's master plan to rule the cash flow market, where Xym is the world currency.

Fight to the death is what i say, never take away my Crazy Gringo Madness(5) CHARGEEEE!!!


:metal::metal::metal:

[Eli2]

Give some bonus on each dead to the owner of the fort like gold(from the dead guy), xp, more guards, necro ..... ?
If something like that would be implemented i had _no_ reason to fight a forts again.

What do you think about this sucide story and have you another idea to avoid this problem and have better wars ?
Balance out the realms.

[ArchmagusArcana]

Running away to save your RPs, that is what you want the game to become? Someone attacks, and then flees like a coward, while you stand victorious, that you fought them off?

It is already like this a lot of the time. I see it a lot with Ignis especially, we (Alsius, Horus) will capture their fort, fight them once or twice and they will go run to the other one and wait for us to show up, so they can have both numbers and a fort, or they will zerg aggers when we have no one to defend it, so we let them have it rather than attack a fort outnumbered 4 to 1, instead of waiting till its 2 to 1, suiciding a few times to take out some conj and take back whats ours.


If something like that would be implemented i had _no_ reason to fight a forts again.

Balance out the realms.

+1000000

[kamax]

Running away to save your RPs, that is what you want the game to become? Someone attacks, and then flees like a coward, while you stand victorious, that you fought them off?
There is a difference with running away to save your rp and stay alive to continue the fight.