Could Syrtis borrow us some archers?

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

Inquisition guys are mostly welcome. For a while, to teach ours how to play.
I'm really fed up. I asked archers to take positions on the wings of formation, and i got the answer "archer will do nothing without support". WHAT?! Archers ARE support. Now could Ignis Horus archers explain me, why they stand in the centre of formations where they get sultared? When I chase an enemy player i'm almost sure to get ensnared, ambushed, frozen by archer. When i am chased, it's very rare to get such a support. Of course there are few that do it right but most, they can only cry... Why locks, and mental conjus have to do archers job? Look at your enemies, you can learn from them!

[Kasp1]

Yeah look at enemies, the most rated ones are always in the middle of zerg under the effect of every single mana pylon. Bad that there usually aren't pylons nor any much of auras on the igean side..

[UmarilsStillHere]

Archers are indeed support, warriors in the current state need the CC spells of mages and archers to close in or chase down a target.

Alsius does this pretty well too, I often get winter stroken, ivyed, ambushed etc... several times per fight. I remember getting about 50 winter strokes off Enio when we were fighting around PP once, including one with me right in his face half way though beast attack :p

Ranged class need to remember that barbs are the most powerfull damage dealers around, and if you see a player running from one then a CC spell will be 10* more effective than a damage only spell like Lightning or Serpants.

With more warriors about I would hope this is just how play styles will naturally develop but since warrior population has been low for so long many archers/mags are used to playing the 'kill' roll rather than CC and support.

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

Yeah look at enemies, the most rated ones are always in the middle of zerg under the effect of every single mana pylon. Bad that there usually aren't pylons nor any much of auras on the igean side..

I don't tell you to mimic most rated, i tell you to mimic those that can play.

...


Exactly!

[Pwnography]

Yeah theres alot of problems with people not playing their roll in war,but its not just archers.In my opinion knights are the class not playing their roll.Ask a knight what their setup is like and 9/10 time theyll have SC lvl 4/5 and accurate swings lvl 4/5.Thats why i love kaidan,only knight i know in ignis who uses auras to protect people.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Far more knights would play 'knight like' if it was a more feasable roll, with the aura limits many people want conju auras more than knight auras, also with the short range behind-arc its hard to keep players under certain auras.

Not to mention lack of tanking power when not under Ao1 and worse CC than barbs, Knights get Sheild Bash, Barbs get Roar, Howl, ROTE... this makes it very hard to defend your allys when you have few effective tools avalable to stop the enemy from doing so.

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

Yeah theres alot of problems with people not playing their roll in war,but its not just archers.In my opinion knights are the class not playing their roll.Ask a knight what their setup is like and 9/10 time theyll have SC lvl 4/5 and accurate swings lvl 4/5.Thats why i love kaidan,only knight i know in ignis who uses auras to protect people.

Knight class with its auras is totally broken, archers are perfectly fine. That's the difference. You can play archer, do your job and not be bored.

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

in ignis, the few archers that we have, marks especially, run out of mana so fast that they can barely do anything at all. I havent played marks much since the 1.0.8 update (nerf-a-thon 2009) and i gotta say, i saw this coming. i tried playing for a while afterwards but i spent so much on arrows in the 2 days that i actually put up with that crap that i lost almost all my gold. its also annoying to kill 2 normal mobs or 1 challenging mob then have to rest right away because you are almost dead and completely out of mana (i wasnt all that great at marks anyway). the biggest prob for me was that the amount of arrows that used to last me 1 weekend of grinding now lasted about 8 hours but costed the same amount.

so literally 2 days after the nerf-a-thon, i made a barb. best decision i ever made on this game. sure they arent what they used to be, but they arent THAT bad.

[ieti]

Ask for some mana. I usually see marks and barbs in Syrtis to ask for mana - and they get if mages have spare to share. Usually conjurers synergy, locks have synergy bond too. Just ask for mana.

Have you seen how we synergy Minamoto and Lune if we have to share. It is symbiosis - we give mana, they protect mages to do better their job.

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

in ignis, the few archers that we have, marks especially, run out of mana so fast that they can barely do anything at all.


That is why i think they should learn to play.


I havent played marks much since the 1.0.8 update (nerf-a-thon 2009) and i gotta say, i saw this coming. i tried playing for a while afterwards but i spent so much on arrows in the 2 days that i actually put up with that crap that i lost almost all my gold. its also annoying to kill 2 normal mobs or 1 challenging mob then have to rest right away because you are almost dead and completely out of mana (i wasnt all that great at marks anyway).


Learn to grind archer without need to rest. I can do that.


the biggest prob for me was that the amount of arrows that used to last me 1 weekend of grinding now lasted about 8 hours but costed the same amount.
so literally 2 days after the nerf-a-thon, i made a barb. best decision i ever made on this game. sure they arent what they used to be, but they arent THAT bad.

You will change your mind when it'll come to pay weapon and armor bill on 50th. My knight, fortunately, has support of my conju and my lock.


...

And again, exactly.

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

im not saying that marks are impossible to play, i just think that NGD screwed them up. I have seen my fair share of great marksmen but they could use a bit of a boost from NGD.

my barb is now lvl 47.5 and i have payed a TON for weapons and armor but i always have the money for it because of all the grinding i do at these higher lvls. i am usually close to 2mil which is more than enough for a lvl 50 weapon. it also makes it easier because i get most of my stuff from my clans bank or from drops.

altho, repairing may be a prob when i dont have such a steady gold income.

i have never been able to grind without resting for a marks unless i have a conju. but like i said, i never was all that great with archers anyway. maybe i am just doing something wrong

[Heru]

im a archer 0_O
yes i try to freeze, ivy, beetle, domain the incomming ennemy, its a kind of support :sifflote:

[NotScias]

im a archer 0_O
yes i try to freeze, ivy, beetle, domain the incomming ennemy, its a kind of support :sifflote:
"

I think that what Ignis needs the most is not archers but true Conjurers and not useless marks/locks wannabe (/me points at above...)...
Seriously, there is too much warjus in Ignis (same in Alsius), of course there is lots in Syrtis, but since we are more, we have more conjus so more support conjs.
For example, seeing a Mass Dispel on Ignis/Alsius side is a very rare thing, while in Syrtis there's sometimes 4 or more support conjs having it (and we have even a lock enchanter)

Teach to your conjs how to be really useful first :P

" ...says the ex-warju

[Klutu]

"

I think that what Ignis needs the most is not archers but true Conjurers and not useless marks/locks wannabe (/me points at above...)...
Seriously, there is too much warjus in Ignis (same in Alsius), of course there is lots in Syrtis, but since we are more, we have more conjus so more support conjs.
For example, seeing a Mass Dispel on Ignis/Alsius side is a very rare thing, while in Syrtis there's sometimes 4 or more support conjs having it (and we have even a lock enchanter)

Teach to your conjs how to be really useful first :P

" ...says the ex-warju

Theres something about Alsius that just Screams Warjur :P

The Amount of useful conjs in Alsius are horribly low besides a select few 50's who play "Conj" the rest of our support comes from a few lvl 30's new to the game and a lvl 11 conj who does better then most higher lvls :P

[_Xyan_]

I understand your post... Yes, ignean archers have a hard time fulfilling their support role... However, Dupa.. You're Wrong! it is not because the suck or because they do not know their role in war. I'd put my money on Most Ignean archers before i put it on a Syrtis archer.... You know Why they can't lay down this "supressing fire"? because they are outnumbered.... Sure a marks can cancel a terror with Burst of wind... But can 1 marks cancel 3 terrors? Sure, a hunter can ambush a warlock about to drop a terror... But 2 Terrors? Sure, A marksman can force a few players to considering retreating.... But can 4-5 Archers force a zerg of 25+ with pylons galor to even consider retreating?... Once again i think not. SO, before you start critizing Our archers... Consider the circumstances that surround them....

I think Our archers do great btw :D

[Orimae]

by archers do you mean marks or hunters, cos quite frankly hunters suck at fort wars, and marks have major mana issues, and from what ive seen, ignis does not have many good marks, i can maybe name about 8 that play well, the rest, maybe do need to learn a bit more, but bringing them down in a post like this doesnt help them one bit imo..

marks dont have ensare, its a slow down spell for runners.....but they do freeze, then get yelled at for screwing with someones spells...


i also see no mention of the really bad knights, barbs, warjus (for the love of god, you want to kill stuff, play a lock ) locks and barbs...we all have players that lack in thier abilities, in all realms, so i suggest more encouragement and less dissin...

[bois]

Interesting. I have been playing long enough to know what may be called the 'Old Ignis' and 'New Ignis'.
Is it really a problem of a single class not knowing what to do or is the sum total that lacks synergy?
I see here specific classes being singled out and comments on whether they know their role or not, can play or not. Sure we are outnumbered but haven't we been in the past and still succeeded? Why? Is it skill, setups or is it a close knit group knowing each other setups, tactic style and such, causing a synergy that allowed the Ignis army to seem bigger than they really were?

Ignis have good players that actually know how to play. The problem is that no singular player can bank on the group having the requisite skills to be able to form a formidable unified force. What do they then do? They use a build that they think would be most effective in a particular situation. As a Knight I admit I have 1 skill on 4 which is accurate swings. It dosen't mean I don't know my role. To skill it that way actually means I have intimate knowledge of my class and its weaknesses and why skilling that way is more effective. All players after a period of time would know the comparitive strengths and weaknesses of their builds and their roles.That is if they have good role models mind you. Do I skill auras? No? why? because the sphere of influence is too small and which would people prefer- deflecting barrier or greater healing/ mana pylon. You tell me.

What is needed is observation and a certain amount of savvy regarding a build and its application in a particular situation. Observation in the sense of knowing what is needed when and understanding the tactics of the opposing force. If we have this then people will know when auras, debuffs, knocks etc are needed and deliver in a unified way.

Ignis of today is a disjointed and generally disorganised group compared to days gone by. Too many egos, bosses and no followers and as such we get a beating. Plain talk bad manners. Why is the zerg so effective? because we have to take up to half an hour to actually get people to stop the incessant suicide and actually stop and use their brains. By that time the ones who have the attention span of a house fly either log or grind leaving the few patient ones to slog away at it. Same applies when we take a fort. Day in day out we fail to use our brains. we go to the save and get plastered. The fort is of no use tactically. We die in the open field.

I go into this long winded post to say one thing really: all the setups in the world and all the best gear and everyone knowing how to play their specific classes means absolutely nothing if you are tactically inept as a cohesive unit.
At times Ignis shows glimpses of their former prowess but usually it is just brute force and slogging rather than finesse these days.

Artec

[Flightcap]

..............



+1 :thumb_up: Syrtis has the advantage over Ignis in this, we never had days of prowess and finesse. It's been brute force all the way.

[Pwnography]

"

I think that what Ignis needs the most is not archers but true Conjurers and not useless marks/locks wannabe (/me points at above...)...
Seriously, there is too much warjus in Ignis (same in Alsius), of course there is lots in Syrtis, but since we are more, we have more conjus so more support conjs.
For example, seeing a Mass Dispel on Ignis/Alsius side is a very rare thing, while in Syrtis there's sometimes 4 or more support conjs having it (and we have even a lock enchanter)

Teach to your conjs how to be really useful first :P

" ...says the ex-warju

dude dont dis heru! hes the shiz! Best mental conju evar! and ignis wuvs him the way he is! :p

[Yawney]

Marks really do have huge mana issues these days... Either you need to use only spells and be able to take part in the battle or you can be standing still shooting normals until everybody gets out of your range. Before the change of the combat system spells were used a lot but there was always the option to just wait a little and shoot like three four normals instead (we're talking 1k+ dmg here). Nowadays it's probably still possible to maintain your mana but you can't get that trigger happy on spells from arrow mastery.

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

I understand your post... Yes, ignean archers have a hard time fulfilling their support role... However, Dupa.. You're Wrong! it is not because the suck or because they do not know their role in war. I'd put my money on Most Ignean archers before i put it on a Syrtis archer.... You know Why they can't lay down this "supressing fire"? because they are outnumbered.... Sure a marks can cancel a terror with Burst of wind... But can 1 marks cancel 3 terrors?


I don't want single marks to do whole job. As lock i try to cancel other lock as much as i can, i just don't see many archers even pretending doing anything.


Sure, a hunter can ambush a warlock about to drop a terror... But 2 Terrors? Sure, A marksman can force a few players to considering retreating.... But can 4-5 Archers force a zerg of 25+ with pylons galor to even consider retreating?... Once again i think not. SO, before you start critizing Our archers... Consider the circumstances that surround them....


Once again. I DO NOT want them to do whole job. I just want them to do SOMETHING. A good start would be to not stay in friggin center, where they can only collect sultars.


I think Our archers do great btw :D

I don't know if it was my post or accident. Yes, today some archer saved my ass with properly casted ambush. Thank you whoever you were.

by archers do you mean marks or hunters, cos quite frankly hunters suck at fort wars,


Myth, not true. They just need something different than this stupid pet setup. I went on my 34 lvl then, hunter, to aggy and i was able to cancel one lock 3 times in a row. He had no choice but to retreat and to come back DI-ed. Hunters, if played well, are very good stoppers, very useful in fort wars.


and marks have major mana issues, and from what ive seen, ignis does not have many good marks, i can maybe name about 8 that play well, the rest, maybe do need to learn a bit more, but bringing them down in a post like this doesnt help them one bit imo..


Let me tell you a story. One Ignis-Horus marks got attacked by melee guard, being on lock I spotted that and came to help. First i casted ivy, to give him a chance to move out. He stood, being bashed by guard. Well he didn't spot opportunity, i thought, and casted beetles, then to help him finish i meteored, or golem fisted (i don't remember which one). Then guard aggroed at me, and what my beloved marks did? Yes, left me alone with f*** guard. Similar situation happened to me twice, with the same person, a person that is respected as a marks, a member of respected clan. This is how i find our marks. Selfish. Selfish is far from team play. Coming to mana issues. Enemy marks beat the hell out of me hitting me normals and crits, and i bet they use Point Shot and Eagle Eye. So maybe ours should do similar, sparing rest of mana for critical situations.


marks dont have ensare, its a slow down spell for runners.....but they do freeze, then get yelled at for screwing with someones spells...


Yes, and they mostly deserve that yelling, cause they cast wrong spell in wrong time. It can happen to anyone, it happens to me, but ffs, not all the time. What is good in casting winter stroke on enemy lying on the ground, jumped by 3 warriors? And when enemy casted spring or ons, and is starting to pull away, so WS or ambush would be nice, then such a marks cast serpent bite... Most of them only want to score RP only for themselfs, but enemy runs away and get healed. Sorry monkey no banana.


i also see no mention of the really bad knights, barbs, warjus (for the love of god, you want to kill stuff, play a lock ) locks and barbs...we all have players that lack in thier abilities, in all realms, so i suggest more encouragement and less dissin...

Because there are not many really bad barbs, locks, or knights. Playing damage dealer is no rocket science. Warjus are other story they are next to useles, but playing them is fun. How can I encourage noob that has been told three times that he played bad, and he continues to do so? I can only yell or keep quiet. I choose second option in most of cases.

[Sidi-Slaughter]

So many quiz in one threat.. makes more confused.
heheehhe!!! :cuac::dance::clapclap::lol::drums::looking::drunk ::guitar:

[Saltor]

Interesting. I have been playing long enough to know what may be called the 'Old Ignis' and 'New Ignis'.
Is it really a problem of a single class not knowing what to do or is the sum total that lacks synergy?
I see here specific classes being singled out and comments on whether they know their role or not, can play or not. Sure we are outnumbered but haven't we been in the past and still succeeded? Why? Is it skill, setups or is it a close knit group knowing each other setups, tactic style and such, causing a synergy that allowed the Ignis army to seem bigger than they really were?

Ignis have good players that actually know how to play. The problem is that no singular player can bank on the group having the requisite skills to be able to form a formidable unified force. What do they then do? They use a build that they think would be most effective in a particular situation. As a Knight I admit I have 1 skill on 4 which is accurate swings. It dosen't mean I don't know my role. To skill it that way actually means I have intimate knowledge of my class and its weaknesses and why skilling that way is more effective. All players after a period of time would know the comparitive strengths and weaknesses of their builds and their roles.That is if they have good role models mind you. Do I skill auras? No? why? because the sphere of influence is too small and which would people prefer- deflecting barrier or greater healing/ mana pylon. You tell me.

What is needed is observation and a certain amount of savvy regarding a build and its application in a particular situation. Observation in the sense of knowing what is needed when and understanding the tactics of the opposing force. If we have this then people will know when auras, debuffs, knocks etc are needed and deliver in a unified way.

Ignis of today is a disjointed and generally disorganised group compared to days gone by. Too many egos, bosses and no followers and as such we get a beating. Plain talk bad manners. Why is the zerg so effective? because we have to take up to half an hour to actually get people to stop the incessant suicide and actually stop and use their brains. By that time the ones who have the attention span of a house fly either log or grind leaving the few patient ones to slog away at it. Same applies when we take a fort. Day in day out we fail to use our brains. we go to the save and get plastered. The fort is of no use tactically. We die in the open field.

I go into this long winded post to say one thing really: all the setups in the world and all the best gear and everyone knowing how to play their specific classes means absolutely nothing if you are tactically inept as a cohesive unit.
At times Ignis shows glimpses of their former prowess but usually it is just brute force and slogging rather than finesse these days.

Artec

THIS^

Although I'm from Alsius, my first WZ action was against Ignis and I was always impressed by their ability to act together as a team. This has stopped being the norm however ... I'm sad about that to a certain degree. Although Alsius has yet to field teams that know what they're doing consistently, it's slowly starting to happen.

Tyr's migration to Horus has actually been a huge benefit to all three realms, there's been MUCH more teamwork since they joined us IMO.

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

Tyr's migration to Horus has actually been a huge benefit to all three realms, there's been MUCH more teamwork since they joined us IMO.

To be honest? I don't see benefit of Tyr migration in Ignis. I only have more people to ignore.

[TheMessenger]

To be honest? I don't see benefit of Tyr migration in Ignis. I only have more people to ignore.

I agree. Ive only seen maybe 5 people from tyr in the wz. and 1 bastiaan or something just spams realm chat with "help" anytime he sees an enemy

[UmarilsStillHere]

A fair few of them dropped the (tyr) tag with their free name change, there are a fair few out there though its clear Alsius and Syrtis gained more players than Ignis.

[frank1216]

I didn't drop it, I am proud that I have that tag :angel1:

[Arafails]

On Hunters in wars. The enemy is rarely caught by surprise more than when one of the enemy appears in their midst and starts hammering the shit out of their conjurer. Often it takes them a few seconds to work it out. And this is all the time it takes to set up a charge. But, the last person I saw doing this properly was Trix....

Because I've seen people try but it doesn't work if you run uncamo with a 12 foot troll next to you. That's not very stealthy.

Marksmen complaining about Sultar's Terror. What. The. Fuck. Let me demonstrate:


W ------------------------------------>
<------------------------------------------- M


Holy crap, the marksman can shoot further than the warlock. Count the dashes, this is an approximation of the actual maximum ranges of the classes. If the marks then stands away from the large group of mana pylon'd people, they don't get hit with terror.
Hunters and Marksmen working together in this situation can be even better, stalker surroundings, ever heard of it?

As for the teamwork and focus. Once upon a time a single barb could cast onslaught from a distance, start running, and everyone would get the hint. Now you have to be so close to the enemy for ons to not wear off that you'll be dead before your own guys have reacted. Not to mention everyone upon reaching level 45 or so thinks they can boss everyone else around.

[ayexeyen_]

Ignis of today is a disjointed and generally disorganised group compared to days gone by. Too many egos, bosses and no followers and as such we get a beating. Plain talk bad manners. Why is the zerg so effective? because we have to take up to half an hour to actually get people to stop the incessant suicide and actually stop and use their brains. By that time the ones who have the attention span of a house fly either log or grind leaving the few patient ones to slog away at it. Same applies when we take a fort. Day in day out we fail to use our brains. we go to the save and get plastered. The fort is of no use tactically. We die in the open field.

Artec


I agree completely. I tried many times to organize the ppl, but it seem impossible! Often you are ignored, often you don't have enough ppl, often some important players of the small group that you have organized leave because the organization take too much time (but this time is much less compared to the attempt to take back a fort for example).

There is a strategy of Efrendi (TM) capable to kill enemies with a rapport 3 vs 1 at samal, I know that because I was with him when he applied that strategy. Today nobody use this strategy anymore, why? Simply because they don't use their brain. This is really sad...

[Yawney]

Marksmen complaining about Sultar's Terror. What. The. Fuck. Let me demonstrate:


W ------------------------------------>
<------------------------------------------- M


Holy crap, the marksman can shoot further than the warlock.

Marks have more range than locks but terror is 10m area... Max range of a marks is 44.85 and max range of terror is 44.5 - that's not much of a difference is it?

Edit: These numbers are without +range items. Do they still exist?

[ncvr]

Marks have more range than locks but terror is 10m area... Max range of a marks is 44.85 and max range of terror is 44.5 - that's not much of a difference is it?

Edit: These numbers are without +range items. Do they still exist?
For a marksman to be hit at a distance higher than their maximum range, the marksman must be directly behind the primary target. By avoiding the main group, the warlock has two options: waste his terror on the marksman (in which case the marks gets what he wants anyway) or terror the main group while putting himself in range of the marks. The additional area effect should not be added onto the max range of terror and used as a balance argument because it can very easily be avoided.

[Yawney]

For a marksman to be hit at a distance higher than their maximum range, the marksman must be directly behind the primary target. By avoiding the main group, the warlock has two options: waste his terror on the marksman (in which case the marks gets what he wants anyway) or terror the main group while putting himself in range of the marks. The additional area effect should not be added onto the max range of terror and used as a balance argument because it can very easily be avoided.

It isn't supposed to be a balance argument. I'm only trying to show that not standing in the middle of a group in a fight is not that easy as it looks. The best position is 10+ m away to the left/right from the group. Then using simple math you get that the marks need to have 36+ m range to be able to shoot while not getting any of the support spells the group is getting. For this much range you need parabolic shot which costs mana and has limited duration.

Last but not least the range of terror isn't a problem, the fact that canceled spells don't get on cooldown is. But this isn't the point of this thread.

[ncvr]

What was said was "if the marks stands away from the group", not standing in the middle of a group in a fight.

The fact that canceled spells don't get on cooldown is unintended behaviour (and confirmed by Kailer), yet it still hasn't been fixed over 3 hotfixes after 1.0.8.

[Piggly]

Marks are definitely support. This only works when we give a crap about who we're playing with. If I am thrown to the dogs more than once by the same group, expect the same in return. More than once I have been killed by guards when others more suited stand around...and yeah, I run. I don't run from battles. I will turn and fight, and usually die, but I won't leave my mates.

A marks just can't do well alone. We NEED everyone else. I can hit stuff an awful long ways away, but don't hold up so well when a barb is smacking me around. Mana is an issue, but it is for everyone. I just have to learn to manage it more effectively.

When we are getting farmed by huge gelf presence at samal, it is incredibly easy to start pointing fingers. I have gone repeatedly into battle against huge forces there and died dozens of times at one battle. When there is no cohesion, we all die.

To me, it's not about the weaknesses of the individual classes, or the inability of the players. It's about leadership. I will latch on to an older player and try to do what he or she does. That's how I learn.

When some snooty bitch starts talking about how archers suck, or conjus suck, it just makes me type in /ignore and chalk it up to another spoiled baby that wants to blame everyone else in the world for their own inability to form a cohesive unit.

Of one thing you can usually be sure...when you see an Ignis zerg, there is death coming to someone. When it clicks, it clicks quite nicely. When it doesn't, that same epic zerg will die embarrassingly fast.

It's not about 'you suck' or 'they suck.'

[Dome]

1. Marx aint support. I dont wanna see a marx spam cc spells. IM FED UP WITH STUPID MARX FREEZING THE TARGET I AMBUSHED!!!. If marx want cc spells use dizzy arrow, but I emphasize. DO NOT USE FREEZE unless you are running away from the target.

2. Hunters are support. Hunters aint useless in fort fights. BUT. Most hunters on horus (dunno about ra) ARE usless. They just run around under SOTW shoting with their stupid bow, doing pathetic damage. And thats what marx are for.

3. Dupa is half right, and I would like to ask him to post a list of cc spells he as a warrior would like to see from a hunter/marx.
________
MALE ADVICE FORUMS (http://www.love-help.org/male-advice/)

[dejan]

/me facepalms after reading Dome's reply...

Marksmen ARE support - our main job is to defend warriors in battles, and that is why Dupa wants more marksmen in Ignis. I can only agree, but I must say Alsius needs more marksmen than Ignis - you have more marksmen then them, much more. And, you have lots of good marksmen too.

Problem with Ignis is, I suppose, that everybody wants to be Efrendi, so You have many barbarians. (OK, that was partially a joke ;) )

[e30G]

1. Marx aint support. I dont wanna see a marx spam cc spells. IM FED UP WITH STUPID MARX FREEZING THE TARGET I AMBUSHED!!!. If marx want cc spells use dizzy arrow, but I emphasize. DO NOT USE FREEZE unless you are running away from the target.

Sorry but I too believe that Marksmen are meant to support by complimenting warrior damage and by defending the team through picking out critical targets (mages and other ranged classes) at range. They can also deter enemy ranged units or rushing warriors through their damage.

Regnum's main damage dealers are supposed to be warriors and NGD is hoping to bring balance to that direction. They are the ones to deal the finishing blows. Ranged classes are meant to make warrior rushes possible and soften up their enemies to make warriors' jobs easier.

A well timed Winter Stroke can be a life saver. Don't blame the idiots that freeze targets for no reason. It's a perfectly good spell.

2. Hunters are support. Hunters aint useless in fort fights. BUT. Most hunters on horus (dunno about ra) ARE usless. They just run around under SOTW shoting with their stupid bow, doing pathetic damage. And thats what marx are for.

Hunters are support yes. They share a bunch of CC spells with Marksmen in the Tricks tree as well as slow spells like Caltrops and Ensnaring. They have the added ability to sneak up and flank enemies and disrupt their lines well enough for warriors to rush in. Hunters like Namus, Milu and Compost do this pretty well. Also note what pets they bring along.

3. Dupa is half right, and I would like to ask him to post a list of cc spells he as a warrior would like to see from a hunter/marx.

You should see how Marksmen like Minamoto, Xia, Lune, Anpu and Enio protect their allies through well a timed Winter Stroke, Burst of Wind, Ambush and other spells.

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

I agree. Ive only seen maybe 5 people from tyr in the wz. and 1 bastiaan or something just spams realm chat with "help" anytime he sees an enemy

We have him too! Is he in Alsius as well?


You should see how Marksmen like Minamoto, Xia, Lune, Anpu and Enio protect their allies through well a timed Winter Stroke, Burst of Wind, Ambush and other spells.

I see! Very painfully.xD

[Arafails]

1. Marx aint support. I dont wanna see a marx spam cc spells. IM FED UP WITH STUPID MARX FREEZING THE TARGET I AMBUSHED!!!. If marx want cc spells use dizzy arrow, but I emphasize. DO NOT USE FREEZE unless you are running away from the target.

All classes are, in their own way, support. Winter stroke (and freeze, which is a warlock spell, btw) can be extremely effective for stopping a hunter from getting away from some chasing warriors.
Marks have some very useful CC spells, such as Lightning Arrow.

2. Hunters are support. Hunters aint useless in fort fights. BUT. Most hunters on horus (dunno about ra) ARE usless. They just run around under SOTW shoting with their stupid bow, doing pathetic damage. And thats what marx are for.

And making it impossible to select the enemy with their giant f**king trolls.

3. Dupa is half right, and I would like to ask him to post a list of cc spells he as a warrior would like to see from a hunter/marx.

All CC spells. Used properly. At the right time. On the right targets. It always depends on the flow of the battle.

[Pimousse]

I think Marksman are not only "support".

Yes Marksman have cc and range, so they are helpfull, like hunters (yes when they don't hide some targets with their stupid toltar). But here, hunters have more advantages, as said before. Note that barbs are support too, in the same way, since they have cc spells.

Marksman have too a lot of damaging spells, and a lot more than cc spells ! They can't spam them because of mana limitation, but they can kill fast when needed. They are marksman !

Well, i have too grind my marks now :p

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

I think Marksman are not only "support".


Of course, not only support. You probably missed my point totally.


Yes Marksman have cc and range, so they are helpfull, like hunters (yes when they don't hide some targets with their stupid toltar). But here, hunters have more advantages, as said before. Note that barbs are support too, in the same way, since they have cc spells.


You definitely missed my point. What is a range of barb CC spells?


Marksman have too a lot of damaging spells, and a lot more than cc spells ! They can't spam them because of mana limitation, but they can kill fast when needed. They are marksman !


But they try to spam! And they don't kill fast when needed. And they don't stop other realm players when needed, although they have tools.


Well, i have too grind my marks now :p

You are very good barb Pim, i hope you will be marks of the same quality.

[Dome]

Hunters are support yes. They share a bunch of CC spells with Marksmen in the Tricks tree as well as slow spells like Caltrops and Ensnaring. They have the added ability to sneak up and flank enemies and disrupt their lines well enough for warriors to rush in. Hunters like Namus, Milu and Compost do this pretty well. Also note what pets they bring along.


Compost acting support? You must be joking. If u want to mention a good support hunter in alsius than the name is Immune blue (or something like that). I dont know much about Poe, but I consider him a support hunter as well. As for compost, shooting from behind mages with parabolic shot is not supporting. He's only coming close if there are considerable amount of other targets around him to protect him.
While Mina is probably a pwnsome marx all I can say about his and any other marx(or locks for that matter) freeze that Im really annoyed when he just freeze a target infront of a captuered fort door that I have ambushed and is helplessly lying on the ground, and the only thing the enemy needs to do is click on the door wildly to escape. So all in all Minamoto and Compost are not supporting ppl while they r just shooting from the back. Even Klos is closer to a support with his lvl5 lightning arrow but i still wouldnt call him a support.

Conclusion: Just because a marx casts freeze arrow once per battle. doesnt make him a support.
And just because a marx have lower damage than a barb. that doesnt make him a support. Its just means marx have been nerfed way too much.
Oh and Enios setup is all about damage, with the exception of freeze arrow so he can run away under SOTW.
But you are right Dupa. You can hardly find a support hunter in ignis. because a lvl4/5 track wont make a hunter support.
________
Ship sale (http://ship-sale.com/)

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

Compost acting support? You must be joking. If u want to mention a good support hunter in alsius than the name is Immune blue (or something like that). I dont know much about Poe, but I consider him a support hunter as well. As for compost, shooting from behind mages with parabolic shot is not supporting. He's only coming close if there are considerable amount of other targets around him to protect him.


And that's fine. Thats much better than staying in the first line and dying fast.
Dead don't provide support fire.


While Mina is probably a pwnsome marx all I can say about his and any other marx(or locks for that matter) freeze that Im really annoyed when he just freeze a target infront of a captuered fort door that I have ambushed and is helplessly lying on the ground, and the only thing the enemy needs to do is click on the door wildly to escape. So all in all Minamoto and Compost are not supporting ppl while they r just shooting from the back. Even Klos is closer to a support with his lvl5 lightning arrow but i still wouldnt call him a support.


I disagree. Many times i had to retreat and cease my attack, due to being strongly attacked by those marks. The art of playing marks is to spare mana and power for best moment. They can do that


Conclusion: Just because a marx casts freeze arrow once per battle. doesnt make him a support.
And just because a marx have lower damage than a barb. that doesnt make him a support. Its just means marx have been nerfed way too much.

No! Ore for example played his marks today very well, giving cover and keeping enemy players in fort busy.


Oh and Enios setup is all about damage, with the exception of freeze arrow so he can run away under SOTW.
But you are right Dupa. You can hardly find a support hunter in ignis. because a lvl4/5 track wont make a hunter support.

Screwing up powers, and nerfs made that people can't really do a duty of their classes, cause that simply make no fun. We all play for fun, right?

[linearguild]

It's a bit silly to argue whether or not archers are support classes. All classes support each other. It's called teamwork. There is no "hero" class that shows up to win the battle and everyone else just provides buffs to make them awesome or whatever. It's just as selfish to think of other classes only in terms of providing support for your own.

The real question for all classes is, "What is the most effective thing I can do to help the team?" It often gives very different answers than asking, "What is the most effective thing I can do to get RP?"

[Gourmandine]

With all the respect I have for you Dupa and even if I understand your disappointment, you shouldn't make such topic here. Even if not read enough we have a realm forum for that kind of complain/request.
All you can expect as result here is to hurt people (with or without other realm help) and those who don't listen to advises in game won't pay attention to them here.


About Tyr people, I believe me must be patient. They must learn to play with such number of players around. We didn't learn to play in few days and we (at least I am) are still learning each day.

For those who are complaining about lack of pylon in war (was not the original point of the topic i know), it seems most of level 50 conjurers skill for it. Don't forget it has a long cooldown and limited area (so don't complain dying when you rush alone, anyway we can't follow you with our legs).

Note (OutOfTopic too) : once a conj has skilled for GH and MP (as most do), he has to choose between supporting mana (MC) and be able to dispell but being weak (no sorcery), supporting mana and have better defense (no dispell), or better defense and dispell (no mana com). We can't do all the task with one setup, don't forget it.

[_Enio_]

Oh and Enios setup is all about damage, with the exception of freeze arrow so he can run away under SOTW.


Where do you get this information from? Im playing http://www.tres-erres.com.ar/rg/?ver=Enio since ages (with minor changes from time to time). You rarely see me run a maxdmg config (19 LB)..

[Arafails]

Where do you get this information from? Im playing http://www.tres-erres.com.ar/rg/?ver=Enio since ages (with minor changes from time to time). You rarely see me run a maxdmg config (19 LB)..
Agree entirely. Enio's setup is really all about being the biggest prick possible in the most annoying manner ;P

[Dome]

Where do you get this information from? Im playing http://www.tres-erres.com.ar/rg/?ver=Enio since ages (with minor changes from time to time). You rarely see me run a maxdmg config (19 LB)..

Dunno. It was kinda like a trancendental feeling given by ur 600+ normal hits under acrobatics. BTW marx r ment to kill soft targets like locks quickly, they just got nerfed too much. But Enio seem to fullfill that role. He is just pretending to be humble.

Screwing up powers, and nerfs made that people can't really do a duty of their classes, cause that simply make no fun. We all play for fun, right?

Ur right about that, but that doesnt mean a hunter should skill with lvl5 lightness, lvl5specialist and lvl5 head of the packt just cuz that gives him the impression of being super awsome.

All classes support each other. It's called teamwork.

And this proves my point. In a weird kinda way. Anyway if u call marx support than u must call locks and barbs support since locks just cant cast a spell without a cc effect and nowdays barbs can only stay alive if they use some roars on the enemy. Nothing wrong with that though.

Something a bit different. While I see that ignis barbs r usually targeting lightly armored playes cuz they can kill them with 2 hits, syrtis warriors have a bad habit. I have seen it many times that they play whose got the bigger. Instead of charging and killing those damn overpowerd mages who spam a dozen spells at u in 3 seconds they go for other warriors just to show them they have higher damage.
Its annoying to see 4 warriors hacking a single knight under Ao1 while every single enemy can do whatever he wants. And than you see such conversation.

"Oh so cool barb of the century": Heh. Did u see? I did 500 dmg on that Ao1 noob with my SC.
"Ironically sarcastic hunter with a bit of cynicism": Yea. And u did kill him under 5:30. Thats a new record. Meanwhile ignis killed all our conjus, and took the fort. But u r really cool no doubt.

Dont tell me, I know. That stupid hunter didnt support those conjus.
The characters seen in this conversation are all figments of imagination. Anykind of similarity with real life characters are mearly coincidental. So u cant report me if ur that barb.

And something to have a happy ending. Cuz it sounds right.
"What is the most effective thing I can do to help the team?"

The only problem is that this...
"What is the most effective thing I can do to get RP?"
01-22-2010 10:47 PM
...sounds kinda right too.
________
Avandia Pregnancy (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/avandia/)

[mute]

During the last days I tried to play as Dupa_z_Zasady suggested.

I was at the left flank and got quite no Sultars and survived very long. The problem is that even with my skilling I run out of mana.

If you read above, the Syrtis Marksmen get so much mana in the ass that they can have a very aggressive skilling and cast spell after spell.

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

With all the respect I have for you Dupa and even if I understand your disappointment, you shouldn't make such topic here. Even if not read enough we have a realm forum for that kind of complain/request.


Totally disagree. First, what forum? Second, if forum is not read, why to post there? Here I have a feedback, people share their thoughts. This is what I want.


All you can expect as result here is to hurt people (with or without other realm help) and those who don't listen to advises in game won't pay attention to them here.


So far facts are against you. I have a feedback, I have a discussion.


About Tyr people, I believe me must be patient. They must learn to play with such number of players around. We didn't learn to play in few days and we (at least I am) are still learning each day.


Of course we are learning, but those that spam realm chat do not learn, never, even in long run. And they spam, even if I have them on ignore, I still receive slivers of their presence.

During the last days I tried to play as Dupa_z_Zasady suggested.

I was at the left flank and got quite no Sultars and survived very long. The problem is that even with my skilling I run out of mana.

If you read above, the Syrtis Marksmen get so much mana in the ass that they can have a very aggressive skilling and cast spell after spell.

But you stay alive, don't you? Sometimes is not about killing, not even about hitting someone, sometimes your presence is enough.
You touched vital point. Syrtis marksmen and hunter, so archers overall, have advantage in numbers and support(conjus). I can't imagine what is thinking our marksman that get involved in direct "artillery duel". They have advantage in numbers, so even two best conjus will not make him stay alive, not mention that some use mumble, so they concentrate their fire on single player, eliminating him fast and without problem. Often giving a heal or mana to such marks is simple waste of mana by conju. Why not to fall back, wait for realm mates, change wing, so on.

[Gourmandine]

First, what forum?
It seems you're the only one who never heard about it. Ask in game.
Even a syrtis player found it and posted a link in a topic here.

[UmarilsStillHere]

This forum: http://teamignis.info/

No need to try hush it up, its hardly a big secret :p

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

It seems you're the only one who never heard about it. Ask in game.
Even a syrtis player found it and posted a link in a topic here.

So? Should I go through all registration process in another forum? For what? To post in one topic? Why can't you give link here?
Hmm, considering moderators' "good job" here, I may even be interested in registering.

EDIT:
This forum: http://teamignis.info/

No need to try hush it up, its hardly a big secret :p

Oh sorry i just noticed.