Lets be Positive and Constuctive...

[Comp]

I do think that people are being a bit childish and over-dramatic about this. NGD is actually working WITH the community on this, give good answers to questions posted and they keep repeating themselves over and over..

Things are not final...

You have to understand this. The number of developers this game has is infinitesimal compared to other MMO games....trust me I worked for Blizzard - they have small armies just doing the QA portion.

Now consider yourself lucky that they WANT the community involved in this. They are active in posting the modification updates and what they mean.

You ALSO have to understand that the developers can't see 100% of how the changes they make affect overall combat and player experience. So they need our input...our CONSTRUCTIVE input.

So - be creative, help solve problems...and STOP nagging on the whole "Bwaaaaaa - my class got a damage nerf" - cause everyone did...and it was necessary. Now NGD needs help in balancing out how the classes interact....so lets help them and help other members of the community.

[Seher]

Five new threads about this won't make it truer. And, unfortunately, won't make anyone get it who doesn't know it already. :/

[tarashunter]

Ok i've been a bit tragic on my post.
Then some one sugest me to have a try in fort wars on amun....is ok,it looks good.
I'm sorry i must give my excuse at NGD stuff for what i've said first to try it(i've tried it on mobs only after amun update).
Then i saw some people of the comunity giving nice idea to developers stuff,and as Compost say,is a nice things that they put annuncment on forum about every step they do,to make us partecipate.
Is their work make a nice game to have more player so to have a little possibility to have some money too.
If game have more players it means is a nice game,we can have more fun on Horus with more player,and then all can be happy(NGD and us too).
I saw amun down some hours agò so i think they are working really day by day and many hours.

[bois]

They are. This update is huge and the variables involved are mind boggling.

They are doing fine and remember , this iteration is probably maybe the 4th of possibly 7 or 8 with a lot of granular tweaks to go. Expect lots of other modifications, some of which are under the hood and really will not be felt by players very easily.
On my knight is see numerous tactical opportunities and considering my opponents have the same constraints as me I am comforted by this.

Lastly, Archers are basically in their first big iteration and warriors/ conjurers probably in round 2 or 3. As time goes on they will be tuned. As will pets, summons and the like. Don't forget that they will address other things like invasions, forts, gates, and such. Boss mobs will be adjusted later on too. Maybe on the regen rate side. Who knows. Also, with the map editor up, I do expect a few changes to the terrain around forts such as rocks ,trees etc. that give tactical options (hint, hint).

Regards
Artec

[lord_dvl]

Maybe you shall translate this and post it in the spanish forum..... they are nuts about this update :P.

To your post just i would like to add that maybe we just have to start thinking in this would be like start again playing this game, i mean, like the first time, may be with this more people will understand.

See ya.

[Klutu]

I agree - Though i admit in the begining i was very worried about this update. Now I have began to favor & look forward to this update. It still needs some tweaks but I think this update will improve the game drastically

Wish other players would be more constructive instead of complaining & threatening to boycott premium content.

If you hate & fear this update so much when it finally goes live I just hope the people who dislike it so much will just quit instead of spamming the forum with the same Bullshit over & over again.

[Anyriand]

I find it very funny that the people I've seen in several posts and threads siding with NGD the most ever since the balancing began on Amun are those with ubber gear...anyone else?

Some people might see this update as a good thing, but you have to understand, others might not. It's a matter of respect. So maybe it's time to start respecting those who's opinions might differ. People have been testing, experimenting, and giving feedback. The feedback might not the positive but well, it can't always be right?

[Gideon_Slack]

The problem with this update is that it is far more than a nerf (or a removal of a class i.e. stealth/speed).

It is changing the basic way the game is played. Like people say when they're divorcing: "I didn't sign up for this."

Sony did the same in 2005 with Star Wars Galaxies, and their New Game Enhancements. Many people protested, a minority liked it. History (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_101/560-Blowing-Up-Galaxies) has sided with the critics.

[bois]

I don't think that it is so much about uber gear and lack of respect and such.

I will copy something I wrote elsewhere.

Most times change is difficult. What makes it worse is that you don't
A: Understand the mechanics of the change,
B: Understand why the change is needed,
C: Understand where the change is leading to,
D: Understand where you fit in the change.

and:

To players: What I have done is this. Understand the past in this game. Acknowledge the sum total of my knowledge and experience to the point of the live server.
Throw out the whole thing in my mind and come to Amun as if it is a blank slate and with an open mind. Rebuild knowledge based on the new concepts here and have my past experience and knowledge colour it.
Come to terms with conceptual changes and understand that in many ways this game is new and as such many of us will have to start again.
Essential point, start again as if this is a new game. In many respects it is.

Good luck everyone and may clarity that comes with starting over guide you an colour your future posts.

A lot of what we see as complaints are due in some part to the above, and general reluctance to change what has become very comfortable and routine.
A wall is put up as resistance against change and as such mental blocks arise, choking off the ability to see possibly new opportunities.

Is the update perfect? by no means. Even after iterations and this goes live I do expect hot fixes and patches to soon follow. NGD is not doing this out of ego or something like that . They have a vision . The only thing is they can see it all and we can only see fragments.

I was concerned in the early stages. Not so much now. Pieces are falling into place. And I don't have much uber gear. Shop bought shield yaya. Regular special axe that an Aquantis was so kind to gift.

Artec.

[Froste]

I find it very funny that the people I've seen in several posts and threads siding with NGD the most ever since the balancing began on Amun are those with ubber gear...anyone else?


I'm against NGD calling it balancing, it's not. I reference my own post 'evaluation of balancing' in the Balance forum. They're redesigning the entire gameplay, just like they've always done every big update.

The difference between this update and the previous ones is that this one has a fairly clear end goal. The previous ones just ripped gaping chunks out of the gameplay, whereas this update seeks to put more gameplay in, albeit radically redesigned. For this update I'm siding with NGD and I don't have any super gear, nor do a lot of the people who've voiced their support. From the looks of things I think the new gameplay will reintroduce some fun into the game that has been sorely lacking.

So no, not everyone who sides with NGD has über gear.

[Comp]

I find it very funny that the people I've seen in several posts and threads siding with NGD the most ever since the balancing began on Amun are those with ubber gear...anyone else?

Some people might see this update as a good thing, but you have to understand, others might not. It's a matter of respect. So maybe it's time to start respecting those who's opinions might differ. People have been testing, experimenting, and giving feedback. The feedback might not the positive but well, it can't always be right?

Sadly - any "uber" gear I had....has been lost with the reduction in damage dealt since all mine were weapon based (bows). Now the difference from a storebought bow of the same type I have is about ~15 damage...

I would much rather try to see the positive side of things than rant about something that...in the end...is going to change whether folks like it or not. No amount of ranting is going to stop the balance update. We can only hope that through the feedback given NGD makes minor adjustments here and there to make the entire change work across all character types.

[Pnarpa]

I don't have any uber gear. I'm not even a good player. :p I play purely for fun.

[bois]

Gideon, is this one as bad as that? Never played it so I have no idea.

Plus Sony could have held back on their release. I am not sure if NGD would have been able to. Possibly they had no choice or it would have not got to market.


Art

[Gideon_Slack]

Gideon, is this one as bad as that? Never played it so I have no idea.

Plus Sony could have held back on their release. I am not sure if NGD would have been able to. Possibly they had no choice or it would have not got to market.


Art

Star Wars Galaxies changed many more systems than NGD is proposing. (They went to twitch combat, collapsed 34 classes into 9, and completely removed an original pet handling system). But you could say, proportionally, NGD is making a change close to that scale to their core mechanic: RvR battles.

(Always bear in mind though I play a class that is being completely removed from the game: RvR Hunter. So it may be difficult for me to have perspective).

This is what the article says is the take-away from the Sony/NGE debacle (as applicable to Regnum):

Consensus has emerged about lessons willing students may learn from SWG and its New Game Enhancements:


It's the community, stupid.

Many players don't experience a persistent online world as "a game." They experience it as "my life." An online world's hardcore players view themselves as citizens. Some want to be good citizens, some bad, but the entire core wants to believe they belong to something permanent.

Big changes after launch drive away existing players and make newcomers mistrust you.

[bigjim]

My question is if weapon damage is going to be split with stat attributes 50/50 obviously I don't care so much about special bows now unless they have a dex bonus....

I was just wondering does anyone think stacking dex gear will make a much bigger difference now ??

[Comp]

Star Wars Galaxies changed many more systems than NGD is proposing. (They went to twitch combat, collapsed 34 classes into 9, and completely removed an original pet handling system). But you could say, proportionally, NGD is making a change close to that scale to their core mechanic: RvR battles.

(Always bear in mind though I play a class that is being completely removed from the game: RvR Hunter. So it may be difficult for me to have perspective).

This is what the article says is the take-away from the Sony/NGE debacle:

Consensus has emerged about lessons willing students may learn from SWG and its New Game Enhancements:


It's the community, stupid.

Many players don't experience a persistent online world as "a game." They experience it as "my life." An online world's hardcore players view themselves as citizens. Some want to be good citizens, some bad, but the entire core wants to believe they belong to something permanent.

Big changes after launch drive away existing players and make newcomers mistrust you.


I interject here because...I fail to see how your class "RvR Hunter" is being removed? If anything there's now a BIGGER need for hunters who carry around 19 tricks or 19 shorts (for repshot). Is it because you are upset that you can no longer produce the massive ensnares or normals?

You cannot go onto amun, have a couple of PvPs and then decide....BAH This sucks. PvP is not RvR and even then PvP was always about who had the best buffs and the most luck.

Hunter roles in the new update will be even more important as contributers to RvR. Hunters will need to create parties, communicate with each other to coordinate delivery of kills to key players - and only hunters can do this due to the stealth at which they attack. Think about what a party of hunters could do in a fight....regardless of the amount of armor you have a coordinated attack from hunters (especially when caltrops/repshot is deployed) is devastating.

[Comp]

My question is if weapon damage is going to be split with stat attributes 50/50 obviously I don't care so much about special bows now unless they have a dex bonus....

I was just wondering does anyone think stacking dex gear will make a much bigger difference now ??

It does not for hunters...I've tested alot of dex...(think I went from 85 - 120) and noticed about a 35 dmg increase. Now stack that with head of the pack, etc...not too bad in the grand scheme of things - but I don't think necessary to waste the points.

[Gideon_Slack]

I interject here because...I fail to see how your class "RvR Hunter" is being removed? If anything there's now a BIGGER need for hunters who carry around 19 tricks or 19 shorts (for repshot). Is it because you are upset that you can no longer produce the massive ensnares or normals?

You cannot go onto amun, have a couple of PvPs and then decide....BAH This sucks. PvP is not RvR and even then PvP was always about who had the best buffs and the most luck.

Hunter roles in the new update will be even more important as contributers to RvR. Hunters will need to create parties, communicate with each other to coordinate delivery of kills to key players - and only hunters can do this due to the stealth at which they attack. Think about what a party of hunters could do in a fight....regardless of the amount of armor you have a coordinated attack from hunters (especially when caltrops/repshot is deployed) is devastating.

Nice pep talk, coach. :biggrin:

The game has never been about pvp for me though. My rp count is ridiculously low for someone who has played a hunter as long as I have. It's always been about playing a stealth class as a member of the team.

But what you describe as the new Hunter role is just a Marx-lite, with weak camo on the side. (No speed will mean many fewer commando raids to the back ranks, and Marx range will nerf camoing out of tough spots). Why be a pale imitation of another class?

And all these new builds using Caltrops are just trying to reintroduce the speed difference between classes that is being taken out. NGD should take note of that: the players feel speed is intrinsic to the Hunter class, and are doing whatever they can to get it back.

[bigjim]

It does not for hunters...I've tested alot of dex...(think I went from 85 - 120) and noticed about a 35 dmg increase. Now stack that with head of the pack, etc...not too bad in the grand scheme of things - but I don't think necessary to waste the points.

hmmm but with the new damage reduction that is not too shabby imo. I think this update is going to be interesting as well........

Right after beta ended when Passive speed went to 10% and mobility dropped from 35% to 25% I thought it was so slow, but I was watching videos the other day..... 10% is where the passive speed needs to be for hunters. 5% is slightly noticeable, but there really is no incentive to put points in the spell for such a little gain imo.

[Comp]

hmmm but with the new damage reduction that is not too shabby imo. I think this update is going to be interesting as well........

Right after beta ended when Passive speed went to 10% and mobility dropped from 35% to 25% I thought it was so slow, but I was watching videos the other day..... 10% is where the passive speed needs to be for hunters. 5% is slightly noticeable, but there really is no incentive to put points in the spell for such a little gain imo.

So true...10% passive then with mobility would make hunter decent....

[Comp]

Nice pep talk, coach. :biggrin:

The game has never been about pvp for me though. My rp count is ridiculously low for someone who has played a hunter as long as I have. It's always been about playing a stealth class as a member of the team.

But what you describe as the new Hunter role is just a Marx-lite, with weak camo on the side. (No speed will mean many fewer commando raids to the back ranks, and Marx range will nerf camoing out of tough spots). Why be a pale imitation of another class?

And all these new builds using Caltrops are just trying to reintroduce the speed difference between classes that is being taken out. NGD should take note of that: the players feel speed is intrinsic to the Hunter class, and are doing whatever they can to get it back.

Think of hunter as...a rouge (unless you want a pet of course - blehch). I think it will give you some new dynamics in the game.

[Seher]

Petless hunters can still rock everything, even with their damage. Shortbows still rock. :) (Maybe more than ever before)

[Gabburtjuh]

I interject here because...I fail to see how your class "RvR Hunter" is being removed? If anything there's now a BIGGER need for hunters who carry around 19 tricks or 19 shorts (for repshot). Is it because you are upset that you can no longer produce the massive ensnares or normals?

You cannot go onto amun, have a couple of PvPs and then decide....BAH This sucks. PvP is not RvR and even then PvP was always about who had the best buffs and the most luck.

Hunter roles in the new update will be even more important as contributers to RvR. Hunters will need to create parties, communicate with each other to coordinate delivery of kills to key players - and only hunters can do this due to the stealth at which they attack. Think about what a party of hunters could do in a fight....regardless of the amount of armor you have a coordinated attack from hunters (especially when caltrops/repshot is deployed) is devastating.

OBJECTION! 90% of alsius hunters suck(incude me if you feel like) and i cant coordinate with them, i tried, it worked with you, immune, arch, samhael and thats around it, there will be abit more but cant get on their names, or they dont play hunter often.

[Gabburtjuh]

Think of hunter as...a rouge (unless you want a pet of course - blehch). I think it will give you some new dynamics in the game.

Make me like Ezio in assasins creed II, id happily sacrifice my range for that XD

[Godot]

This thread seems to have devolved into a hunter nerf discussion.
(I'm not saying this is a bad thing)
I've played my hunter on both sides of the pet fence, and while I scored more
rp with a pet; I didnt have nearly as much fun as I do petless.
I guess this nerf won't bother me as much as it will some other players.
I know there will be changes I don't like, but you take the good with the bad.
I don't think its about uber gear, I have 1 really nice long bow but hardly ever
use it since I've skilled shorts to 19.
I'm for letting the dev team do their job and see what the game feels like after a few weeks.

[rogueish]

Star Wars Galaxies changed many more systems than NGD is proposing. (They went to twitch combat, collapsed 34 classes into 9, and completely removed an original pet handling system). But you could say, proportionally, NGD is making a change close to that scale to their core mechanic: RvR battles.

(Always bear in mind though I play a class that is being completely removed from the game: RvR Hunter. So it may be difficult for me to have perspective).

This is what the article says is the take-away from the Sony/NGE debacle (as applicable to Regnum):

Consensus has emerged about lessons willing students may learn from SWG and its New Game Enhancements:


It's the community, stupid.

Many players don't experience a persistent online world as "a game." They experience it as "my life." An online world's hardcore players view themselves as citizens. Some want to be good citizens, some bad, but the entire core wants to believe they belong to something permanent.

Big changes after launch drive away existing players and make newcomers mistrust you.


Amen to that. I just returned after leaving for a year do to the last big hunter nerf and its happening all over again. I most likely will do what many did last time and just delete my account so I wont be tempted to make the same mistake again. One thing you can count on with ngd is they are going to change your chars for the worst regularly. Too bad they have so many apollogist here or maybe the community could actually organize and do something about it.

[ncvr]

Amen to that. I just returned after leaving for a year do to the last big hunter nerf and its happening all over again. I most likely will do what many did last time and just delete my account so I wont be tempted to make the same mistake again. One thing you can count on with ngd is they are going to change your chars for the worst regularly. Too bad they have so many apollogist here or maybe the community could actually organize and do something about it.
This is what you sound like.

"You dont understand, I am extremely skilled. I used to beat everyone and now I cant beat anyone. Did I get worse?"

No. You were never any good.

For the first two or three years after release, it became clear that hunters had massive advantages over everyone. Winning was as simple as buffing, then pressing two buttons - ambush and dual shot. Unfortunately, a large number of children and mentally handicapped people played the class.

The first major set of hunter nerfs came in 1.0. When these came, when NGD finally began to bring the other classes up-to-par, these players just couldn't understand why they were beginning to die some more - they only noticed that they were.

Then and now, they wouldn't admit that perhaps they only killed anybody at all because their class was blatantly overpowered, that they're not doing so well because without the innate overpoweredness of the class, they could do nothing.

I play my class because I find it fun. If you play your class because it's blatantly overpowered or the new "flavour of the month", then I do feel sorry for you.

[rogueish]

This is what you sound like.

"You dont understand, I am extremely skilled. I used to beat everyone and now I cant beat anyone. Did I get worse?"

No. You were never any good.

For the first two or three years after release, it became clear that hunters had massive advantages over everyone. Winning was as simple as buffing, then pressing two buttons - ambush and dual shot. Unfortunately, a large number of children and mentally handicapped people played the class.

The first major set of hunter nerfs came in 1.0. When these came, when NGD finally began to bring the other classes up-to-par, these players just couldn't understand why they were beginning to die some more - they only noticed that they were.

Then and now, they wouldn't admit that perhaps they only killed anybody at all because their class was blatantly overpowered, that they're not doing so well because without the innate overpoweredness of the class, they could do nothing.

I play my class because I find it fun. If you play your class because it's blatantly overpowered or the new "flavour of the month", then I do feel sorry for you.

I understand your bitterness considering how often i used to grind on you before the last nerf. But the thing that most of you refuse to face is even before the last nerf there were several barbs and knights from alsius and syrtis who beat me almost every time then there was warriors like you who couldnt face the fact that they werent skilled enough so the people who beat them had to just be overpowered. If that were the case I would have been able to simply kill all warriors rather than just the less skilled ones who cry in the forums like you.
And as for your mistaken idea that I think I have gotten worse I still have about a 90% kill rate. I just have to use tricks now which is a style I always looked down on before but is now about the only way a hunter can be successful. and I too play my class because I find it fun. In a way to be honest the reason I posted originally was because the post I quoted said what I felt. I had a year invested om this game when the last nerf hit and now I come back and am here around a month and it happens again. It really seems a betrayal by ngd. Its just my opinion of course. But I have noticed since Ive been back there seems to be a lower population on the english server than when I left after the last nerf so maybe youd think theyd realize that their actions dont exactly inspire confidence in new players or loyalty in the older ones.
Put simply most people play a game because they like it and want continuity rather than change. Everyone wants their chars to be the strongest and hardest to kill and if the devs try to cater to them the game is doomed to a continuous cycle of nerfs and changes until everything that we love about the game will be gone regardless of what class you play.

[_Enio_]

Unfortunately, a large number of children and mentally handicapped people played the class.


Read up, this hasnt changed much..

Classes offering easy success just attract broken personalities, thats not a RO phenomena, thats like this evrywhere.

Positive self-esteem from victories, denying the relational worth of it. Unconciously self healing by denying the truth isnt new either.

Its rather sad to see young people live without professional help or without parents caring.

[rogueish]

Read up, this hasnt changed much..

Classes offering easy success just attract broken personalities, thats not a RO phenomena, thats like this evrywhere.

Positive self-esteem from victories, denying the relational worth of it. Unconciously self healing by denying the truth isnt new either.

Its rather sad to see young people live without professional help or without parents caring.

Very profound words from the child universally considered the most overpowered marksman in the game.
I wasnt trolling with my original post but if you children want to play Im up for it .

[Eli2]

Without accepting the fact that everything changes, we cannot find perfect composure. But unfortunately, although it is true, it is difficult for us to accept it. Because we cannot accept the truth of transience, we suffer.

Shunryu Suzuki

[ncvr]

Rogueish, my post was not directed at you in particular. It was, actually, directed at everybody who plays a class which is or was completely over-the-top (as of now, that includes marksmen maxing evasion from the good old pre-1.0 days, hunters and warlocks on the current live version, and SC spamming barbs), with absolutely no hard counter, and who can't except the fact that the nerfs don't make them any weaker than any other class. Hunters have always been a highly effective class in almost all aspects of this game (slightly weaker in fort wars as of late, but still providing reliable and steady dps and support without being mana-starved like marksmen). No class should be able to completely negate how terrible the player is. Again, not directed at you in particular. Just for your consideration.

I wasnt trolling with my original post but if you children want to play Im up for it .
Don't play these games with me, because you'll lose.