New Balance Update: Hits/Criticals/Evasion (Stage 6)

[chilko]

Hello guys,

We are finally seeing light at the end of the tunnel :)
Very exciting changes for this Stage. Please help us test!

General Modifications to the combat system

New Critical calculation: We have implemented a more elegant system for calculating chances of critical hits. Critical related spells numbers have been changed for the new system. The new values have been designed to have a BIGGER impact on your chances of critical hits. Critical hit chance is now represented as a % of hits.
New Hit chance/Evasion calculation: We have adjusted some values and given more weight to character stats and weapons stats than character level. This means that some spells related to evasion and hit chance will have a stronger effect. Balance to these spells (mostly buffs) will be done at a future stage.

Base Evasion chances have been reduced for all classes.
Evasion, damage resists and spell resists for normal looking mobs have been decreased


Spells:


New Marksmen spell instead of Dead Sentence called Dead Eye: Damage Bonus 10%-30% with a reduction of Attack speed of 20% in every level. Duration: 20 seconds.
New Spell for Hunters: Death sentence. Changed for an assist spell for RVR battles. This spell is designed to assist warriors. Increase of melee damage 5% 20%, Cooldown: 30 Seconds
Various re-arrangements to the scouting discipline: We removed Track Ally and Track Monster because of the addition of Death Sentence and a new spell.


Map Changes

A group of Dwarf engineers have been working on Trelleborg Save. Let’s see if they found a way to stop the camping.
More underground activity of unknown origin around Thorkul’s Rage has been dramatically changing the surrounding landscape.

[theotherhiveking]

Im worried about death sentence, mostly its the cooldown, i think it should be 15 or something.

You see, death sentence wasnt really that common even when it buffed 90% of your our army agaisnt and single enemy and the damages where A LOT bigger.

So, now the caster doesnt enjoy it either, and warriors still have to charge and stuff.

So, i think for people to use it, it should be cheap and have a low cooldown so it can be spammed.

New Critical calculation: We have implemented a more elegant system for calculating chances of critical hits. Critical related spells numbers have been changed for the new system. The new values have been designed to have a BIGGER impact on your chances of critical hits. Critical hit chance is now represented as a % of hits.
New Hit chance/Evasion calculation: We have adjusted some values and given more weight to character stats and weapons stats than character level. This means that some spells related to evasion and hit chance will have a stronger effect. Balance to these spells (mostly buffs) will be done at a future stage.


Base Evasion chances have been reduced for all classes.
Evasion, damage resists and spell resists for normal looking mobs have been decreased
Bwavo!! Clappy!

A bug:
Death sentece says that any attack performed from a distante above 3 meters will be enhanced. If it assists warriors then you want to say UNDER 3 meters.

[Mattdoesrock]

All the resists etc stuff sounds great, I'll have to test it.

However, can you explain how Critical hits are calculated? What effect Concentration has on them? etc. That would be great.

---

New Marksmen spell instead of Dead Sentence called Dead Eye: Damage Bonus 10%-30% with a reduction of Attack speed of 20% in every level. Duration: 20 seconds.

Well that's 5 extra points for my Marks then.

New Spell for Hunters: Death sentence. Changed for an assist spell for RVR battles. This spell is designed to assist warriors. Increase of melee damage 5% 20%, Cooldown: 30 Seconds

I wish my Marks had something like this. :(

[_Enio_]

You have a bug there, lvl5 Adaptability boosts the critical hitchance by 1000%. (shortbow spell No. 6)

Edit: Fixed (effect fixed (adds proper ~32% on 5, description still states +1000%)

[chilko]

All the resists etc stuff sounds great, I'll have to test it.

However, can you explain how Critical hits are calculated? What effect Concentration has on them? etc. That would be great.


I can say that it's based on concentration, your level and your weapon's quality.

previous formula had too much to do with level... now it has more to do with attributes and your weapon.

also, this is a real % of chance of your hits... this desnt mean that if you had 50% of critical chance you will have 1 critical every one round.
Random is random... a coin toss can be heads thousands of times in a row.

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

most of the changes in this stage arent actually half bad. that said, im still disappointed in the way that onslaught was changed.

ill chuck my idea out there again:

a compromise between the current onslaught and the new one:

onslaught ONLY affects the caster IF it also affects someone else.

FOR INSTANCE:

a barbarian casts onslaught with no one around, there is no effect.


a barbarian casts onslaught with 1 or more people in the area of effect, the barbarian receives the full benefits from the onslaught.

also WOW, u killed the SHIT out of mobility

[theotherhiveking]

About Point Shot, at least at low levels, it has a insane mana cost for his effect (140 mana points for +3 crit chance on lvl 2.)

So at least on low levels the cost should be WAAAAAAAAAY cheaper.

[Bardar]

Lower evades/resist for mobs sounds good, but by how much?

Not sure about the rest quite yet.

[theotherhiveking]

Mobs still evade a fair amount of hits.

The hitchance buffs have yet to be balanced however.

[chilko]

most of the changes in this stage arent actually half bad. that said, im still disappointed in the way that onslaught was changed.

ill chuck my idea out there again:

a compromise between the current onslaught and the new one:

onslaught ONLY affects the caster IF it also affects someone else.

FOR INSTANCE:

a barbarian casts onslaught with no one around, there is no effect.

a barbarian casts onslaught with 1 or more people in the area of effect, the barbarian receives the full benefits from the onslaught.

Objection overruled. you would still get the effect of both spring and onslaught by yourself.

[TheMessenger]

Objection overruled. you would still get the effect of both spring and onslaught by yourself.

Like the updates, so nice job :)

But could you at least make onsl dmg bonus still apply to caster? :/

also the new DS for marks is it -20% AS each lvl or at lvl 5 is it -20% AS?

[chilko]

About Point Shot, at least at low levels, it has a insane mana cost for his effect (140 mana points for +3 crit chance on lvl 2.)

So at least on low levels the cost should be WAAAAAAAAAY cheaper.

Hehe this is funny. Previous number was 14 points in level 2 (not 14%. 14 POINTS)
Do you actually know how much those 14 points implied to your actual chances of hitting a crittical blow?

Let me just tell you that it was much less than the 3% that you are adding now.


Sorry.. i just edited your post i am so burned out.

please feel free to post again the rest of it

Sorry again.

[Gideon_Slack]

Thoughts on Death Sentence:

Could someone with a better grip of the math compare Death Sentence to Sudden Strike?

Sudden Strike at level 5 gives 40 seconds of -50% protection.

Death Sentence at Level 5 gives 30 seconds of +20% melee damage.

Will using Death Sentence allow allies to inflict more damage on a target than Sudden Strike? (Sudden Strike is also a more versatile spell, and applies to all forms of damage).

Also, I'm not sure a spell called "Death Sentence" fits in the Scouting tree. A new name that is Head of the Pack-ish would be nice.

Note: The last Spell in the Scouting tree is a mystery right now, it only says "Label"

[TheMessenger]

Also I feel bad for the idiots that deleted their chars :D

I wonder how many people will be whining to NGD to get their account back or trying to get an inactive/coplay an account

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

Objection overruled. you would still get the effect of both spring and onslaught by yourself.

not really, if you are alone, chasing or running, onslaught would not affect you.

my idea would ONLY affect the caster if it affects another ally, so if you are alone, its useless.

[New_barb]

ok new compromise?

IF you have any other speed buff activated you can't cast onslaught. after 10 seconds that the speed buff ended you will be able to cast onslaught and you can't cast another speed buff spell withing 10 seconds after onslaught ended? BUT it will effects the caster? like getting a global cooldown on your speed buffs after archieved another speed buff,

and of course there has to be a ally next to you or it won't effect you

[theotherhiveking]

Hehe this is funny. Previous number was 14 points in level 2 (not 14%. 14 POINTS)
Do you actually know how much those 14 points implied to your actual chances of hitting a crittical blow?

Let me just tell you that it was much less than the 3% that you are adding now.


Sorry.. i just edited your post i am so burned out.

please feel free to post again the rest of it

Sorry again.
Dont worry about that :p

The thing is just noticed because im leveling an hunter (became lvl 18 today \*/) and i want to go petless and use longbows so i spend all day trying the longbow buffs and i noticed it didnt make a damn difference, i was about to come asking for just this, so this update surprised me.

I thought this was a unique chance to ask you to beef it point shot a bit. But it already was improved, but i still found the mana cost to be insane at those levels.

Actually i think thats a problem with all the spells, they are ridicously expensive at early levels, for example movility is a 2% bonus for about 120 mana.

This kind of encourages you to just use a few lvl 5 spells.

Also I LOVE the amount of points avalible now for low level chars! A great improvement.

[_Enio_]

From some tests on low monsters, the new DS replacement spell for marks boosts my 400s (recharged lvl5) normals to 450s (roughly 10%) for the cost of 20% speed.

Does that new spell take *all* damage into account or just the damage from bows,rings and arrows (like recharged)?

If so i dont quite see the use of it with current damage increase (no dps increase on normal armor for me)

[Seher]

New Spell for Hunters: Death sentence. Changed for an assist spell for RVR battles. This spell is designed to assist warriors. Increase of melee damage 5% 20%, Cooldown: 30 Seconds

\o/

But that still isn't enough to make hunters a supporting class...
Har... Hunters, a supporting class, supporting by hindering the enemies. I like it :biggrin: (More CCs for hunters ! \o/)

The whole hit chance / crit chance stuff looks good. I'm testing right now how "abusable" it is. ;P

[Bardar]

Escapist on levels 1-4 is evade chance +1500 while level 5 is +1000
Meant to be like this?

[TheMessenger]

I tried to test a bit with my marks (server shut down -_-')

but with 5 specialist, 5 RA, 5 Dead Eye(?) I was doing 350 norms. and because dead eye doesnt have a -range and is in the hawks gaze tree it will be very helpful for marks because they can max the tree and get hawkz lvl 4/5 and take out the -speed.

But very nice job NGD, and with just lvl 5 hc passive in aiming mastery or w.e that tree is I had 500+hc (:D) so Im pretty happy with marks atm but I still think that every class, but marks especially need a mana boost and spell mana cost reduced and also marks need a bit more range (nothing really seperating hunter and marks range) ppl have suggested making passive range higher and para shorter range and I like that idea.

[Wyatt]

Overall nice changes will need to go and do some testing. :)

Interesting changes done to the map in Alsius Territory.

I suggest you look at this video from PP1 Bridge and how easily players can by-pass the bridge from Alsius side and immediately be on Syrtis side without crossing bridge. That can use some editing too.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wZqCKS62jI

[Hocus]

Like Enio said, I can't see a DPS increase using Dead eye. I tried it at level 5 and nothing good to my eyes... The feeling is that my medium speed long bow became a slow speed bow.

The skill have a low mana cost but it does not have a good effect. I'm sure I will never put points in this spell. Right now, is just one more spell to spend mana and do nothing but trade attack speed for damage, and a balanced trade, no DPS increase.

Why this name BTW? I don't get it.

Maybe this isn't a good spell. Some users have great ideas of new spells that can fit better than Dead eye.

You could get rid of this new spell and put a spell like "Double target" where the marksman can fire two arrows, each one on a diffent target that is in a close range to the selected enemy. IMO, this fits more with the name of the tree (Aiming) and is much more usable. Just a crazy idea but who knows?! Think about it :)

Best regards.

[TheMessenger]

Like Enio said, I can't see a DPS increase using Dead eye. I tried it at level 5 and nothing good to my eyes... The feeling is that my medium speed long bow became a slow speed bow.

The skill have a low mana cost but it does not have a good effect. I'm sure I will never put points in this spell. Right now, is just one more spell to spend mana and do nothing but trade attack speed for damage, and a balanced trade, no DPS increase.

Why this name BTW? I don't get it.

Maybe this isn't a good spell. Some users have great ideas of new spells that can fit better than Dead eye.

You could get rid of this new spell and put a spell like "Double target" where the marksman can fire two arrows, each one on a diffent target that is in a close range to the selected enemy. IMO, this fits more with the name of the tree (Aiming) and is much more usable. Just a crazy idea but who knows?! Think about it :)

Best regards.

SS has the same effect as dead eye but less mana and no -attack speed

dead eye should be changed and dmg bonus should be 50% or something

Edit: Also did you change mob health/defense yet? I can't kill mobs w/o them getting to me but I can do that on live :( and I see a bit of a change in Crit chance but Evades still need a bit work I think

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/5651/screenshot2010081318561.jpg

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9455/screenshot2010081318562.jpg

:/

[metsie]

I did some testing with dead eye:

If using fast bow, may be better just to use rapid shot and get higher dps, unless -25%hc in rapid makes lot of evades.

dead eye alone is kind of +-0 30% damage, but also -20% as so either marks needs to use hawks gaze too or just hawks gaze alone to get better dps.

Didn't test with spells yet, but atm mana usage is bit too much to use spell setup only, but maybe buffing this before spells could be nice ( if it affects spell damage)

maybe change that -20%as to -20%hc or lower value of as and this spell could be really nice :p

evasions are lot better now, haven't seen a single arrow evaded yet vs mobs :P

edit: it does not add spell damage, so not usefull spell like this :/

edit2: and on lower levels it's kind of funny (lvl1 10% damage, -20% as)

edit3: and with old death sentence I made ~50-80 more damage than with this dead eye

[NotScias]

I tried a bit with my marks,

Like many others said, the new spell replacing Death Sentence (Dead Eye) is useless, because it gives a small damage bonus (+30%) but this bonus is completely nullified by the Attack Speed malus on this spell (-20%), but this spell still costs mana, so what's the point of spending mana on a spell if you don't get any real benefit at all ?
I tested with a medium 35 bow on ancient lions, I get barely 25 more damage using this spell, but the bow becomes almost like a slow one, so not worth it at all.
I think the Attack Speed malus should be toned down, or the damage increased, to make this spell worth something.

About the chances concerning the Hit Chance and Critical Hit Chance, I think they are good, and it's good to see the Critical Hit Chance % in characters window... Maybe the critical hit chance buffs like point shot are working more, I don't really know I can't conclude anything since it's randomness, but overall the amount of criticals is way lower than before, not because of the new critical hit chance calculation, but because you removed the "more range = more criticals" rule, which was nice in my opinion, because it was giving a benefit for long range marks.
I think this rule should be restored, or at least buff Point Shot because +6% Critical hit chance doesn't really seem to affect anything.

To finish, some thought about the new Hunter spell. I think pets shouldn't benefit of the damage bonus, because that would mean they could get +50% from wrath and +20% from DS dmg bonus, which is a bit excessive...

[Miraculix]

What about Spell Focus/Spell Resistance? Are those adjusted the same way the Hit Chance/Evasion system has been adjusted? Will we be able to see them in our character window?

[Seher]

125 concentration should give way more crit chance than some %s...
Can't complain about the hit chance, though, it's possible to get some more normals through escapist then.

[_Enio_]

I want to add that from tests new DE, Recharged and DF seem to work quite the same (they seeem to scale only gear damage, no dex etc.)

Tested with DF, DE(5) and Recharged(5) which all add +30% damage. results were very close to eachother.


Losing 20% of your whole DPS for a bonus of 30% for only the gear damage part just cannot work out.

[bigjim]

I want to add that from tests new DE, Recharged and DF seem to work quite the same (they seeem to scale only gear damage, no dex etc.)

Tested with DF, DE(5) and Recharged(5).


Losing 20% of your whole DPS for a bonus of 30% for only the gear damage part just cannot work out.

I agree....

The spell is actually making marksmen worse!!

[chilko]

What about Spell Focus/Spell Resistance? Are those adjusted the same way the Hit Chance/Evasion system has been adjusted? Will we be able to see them in our character window?

Nope, different systems. Spell power and spell resistance will be dealt with after this balance update.

[chilko]

I agree....

The spell is actually making marksmen worse!!

guys... it's a first iteration. Note taken about this spell... please let's talk about something else

[Gabburtjuh]

what other besides death sentance to hunters(nice move) and the question, does this affect pet dmg, that would be bad.

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

please let's talk about something else

first of all, spelling corrections in red. :P

second of all, how about a way for onslaught to actually be useful to the barbarians. my idea made onslaught useful without allowing a lone barbarian to stack spring AND onslaught.

if you dont want that kind of stacking to be possible AT ALL, modify the spell to not allow you to cast any other speed buffs for the duration of the spell.

but PLEASE, don't make onslaught a spell that a barbarian casts on the group, then the group just takes off without him, that seems counter-productive from the barbarian's point of view. think about a real-life barbarian. they were not much for being team players, they wanted blood, so they rushed in group or no group. so what sense would it make to have a barbarian get everyone pumped for a rush just let the group go ahead?

[TheMessenger]

guys... it's a first iteration. Note taken about this spell... please let's tak about something else

ight

Did you adjust mob armour/defense/health already?

[Klutu]

first of all, spelling corrections in red. :P

second of all, how about a way for onslaught to actually be useful to the barbarians. my idea made onslaught useful without allowing a lone barbarian to stack spring AND onslaught.

if you dont want that kind of stacking to be possible AT ALL, modify the spell to not allow you to cast any other speed buffs for the duration of the spell.

but PLEASE, don't make onslaught a spell that a barbarian casts on the group, then the group just takes off without him, that seems counter-productive from the barbarian's point of view.

it's not the issue of stacking.. Spring + Ons

The issue is a Barb could have 24 seconds of constant speed boost - Spring alone is all a barb needs now that they lowered the cooldown it allows us quick boosts of speed for engaging the enemy.

giving a barb Spring + Ons bonus in the current state would just cause a hole new imbalance

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

it's not the issue of stacking.. Spring + Ons

The issue is a Barb could have 24 seconds of constant speed boost - Spring alone is all a barb needs now that they lowered the cooldown it allows us quick boosts of speed for engaging the enemy.

giving a barb Spring + Ons bonus in the current state would just cause a hole new imbalance

so just rely on a different barb to give you ons, just taking it away from the caster will not solve that problem. there is more than one barbarian, you know :P

you are going to have this issue with every class that has a speed buff, so every class but mages.

[Bardar]

Make it so that the effect of spring and the effect of onslaught cannot stack.

Not only does this solve the problem of giving barbarians a huge amount of speed, but it also allows them to use onslaught and run with the group and also encourages tactical usage of spring. The highest speed increase % would of course take priority.

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

Make it so that the effect of spring and the effect of onslaught cannot stack.

Not only does this solve the problem of giving barbarians a huge amount of speed, but it also allows them to use onslaught and run with the group and also encourages tactical usage of spring. The highest speed increase % would of course take priority.

as klutu pointed out, its not an issue of spring+ons, it is spring THEN ons. so that would solve the problem (which in my opinion, is unsolvable unless you take the speed bonus off onslaught, which would make the spell useless)

EDIT: on second thought, if you made a period after onslaught where no speed buffs could be casted (like a dizzy for speed buffs), that would make short work of the issue.

[_Enio_]

guys... it's a first iteration. Note taken about this spell... please let's tak about something else

Was just meant as exactly this, to point it out :)

Is there any chance a marks gets some sort of mana regeneration tool?

Id say thats currently the biggest drawback for marks, being manastarved so much. You can barely play in a way to save mana and regenerate a bit as you not only lose mana by buffs and spells but even normal hits drain you heavily, especially with longer fights and increased attack speed.

[Topogigio_BR]

Chilko infect i like the idea of the Dead eye spell, only the damage is not noticeable as some have said, plus i would like to see in this spell a % per lvl debuff too.
lvl1 - +10 damage - 4AS
lvl2 - +14 damage - 8AS
lvl3 - +18 damage - 12 AS
lvl4 - +24 damage - 16 AS
lvl5 - +30 damage - 20 AS

This to make more possible intermediary use of the spell, better to have it on 0 or 5 that is the present situation.
Well depending on the correction to damage i think mana cost could be reviwed too to pu this spell in something like 120 or 150.

Not having range and being a quick damage boost for marks with short cool down i think overall is a great spell.

Good Job.

[TheMessenger]

For Dead Eye

I think maybe instead of dmg it should be +range? than marks can combine it with dirty fighting

[Aeacus]

Thank You NGD :) marks asked for an increase in damage, but to have a increase with no drawbacks would be overpowering so you added a AS reduction :) now marks can chose to hit fast or hard :) As far as the difference in damage, no biggie, as you said this is just a test so a change to the spell to make the bosst better is still a valid option :) Comon' guys dont whine that NGD listened and made an attempt to help marks out, is still a test and the fact that a spell with great potential has been added is a testiment on how NGD does pay attention. Once again Great Job.

[bigjim]

For Dead Eye

I think maybe instead of dmg it should be +range? than marks can combine it with dirty fighting

That's actually a cool idea if it could be implemented correctly.

[Seher]

Was just meant as exactly this, to point it out :)

Is there any chance a marks gets some sort of mana regeneration tool?

Id say thats currently the biggest drawback for marks, being manastarved so much. You can barely play in a way to save mana and regenerate a bit as you not only lose mana by buffs and spells but even normal hits drain you heavily, especially with longer fights and increased attack speed.

Every class suffers from this. (Apart from mages) You've got the initial mana pool, and if the fight lasts longer than expected... Well, bad luck then. (Assuming there's no nice conju around)

Recharged arrows should stop the mana regeneration, imo, not make the mana constantly go down.

[theotherhiveking]

The point is that in wars everyone will likely cast it at the same time, so no one will be left behind.

[bigjim]

The point is that in wars everyone will likely cast it at the same time, so no one will be left behind.

That's going to be difficult when it is going to be an area of 6 now.......

[chilko]

hey guys

I know that you have issues with:

Onslaught
Dead Eye
Marksmen mana consumption

We also have strong debates about this things internally and as you know this is not the final update.

let's move on to another topic... like hit chance, evasion & criticals against other players and mobs.

evasion has been a major complain by almost every player in the game, please try to test and give us a feedback about this important features modified for this stage.

[TheMessenger]

hey guys

I know that you have issues with:

Onslaught
Dead Eye
Marksmen mana consumption

We also have strong debates about this things internally and as you know this is not the final update.

let's move on to another topic... like hit chance, evasion & criticals against other players and mobs.

evasion has been a major complain by almost every player in the game, please try to test and give us a feedback about this important features modified for this stage.

chilkooooooooooooooooooooo....answering :D

but also add mana consumption problems for every class to that its just marks have it the worse because usually conjs syn bond barbs and still have to cast areas+heals.

anyway

From what Ive grind on Amun Ive seen a pretty nice increase in crits when I use point shot. I don't think there has been an increase in crits the farther you are away from a target (or is that not a feature) but with 1k hc I don't think I should get any evades :/

[bigjim]

My question is:

What exactly does "1000" hit chance stand for? What is the number calculated into?? Concentration, Dex?

[Bardar]

I still think mobs evade and hit chance should be reduced a lot more.

Grinding is supposed to be easier at higher levels but take longer, at the moment, its hard because of evades/resists and its a huge amount of experience to get up anyway :p

[Gideon_Slack]

what other besides death sentance to hunters(nice move) and the question, does this affect pet dmg, that would be bad.

The things is, Sudden Strike already provides a debuff that Pets can take advantage of (anyone can use it) of -50% protection to the target.

Will the +20% melee damage of Death Sentence allow more damage to be inflicted on a target than the -50% protection of Sudden Strike (or will it be the same or less?).

In the last 6 months of playing Regnum, Death Sentence was cast on me exactly once (and even then I had to mouseover the icon to find out what the heck it was). Sudden Strike has been cast on me more (though not a lot). As a Hunter though, I might not be a priority in terms of threat.

[theotherhiveking]

Well, mob evades are still too high, even the 'white' ones have huge evade streaks.

On players now stuff is clearer, formula is not messy, criticals are crystal clear now..

Everythings nice.
So yeah, not a whole lot to comment, stuff improved, its more intuitive and less random, and will improve our repertoire of useful skills.


Im worried about the +MISS CHANCE skills, even the font you guys use to mark missed hits is outdated, will these skills get changed?

[-Kalid-]

Why all comments complain about hunters. :s

About the new spell for hunters i really like it.

In the evasion tree you said before in your stages chilko that mobility was decreased 10% movement speed which is 25% (lvl5) - 10% = 15% movement speed, but it appears to be 10% (lvl5) movement speed, is it a bug or something?

[Topogigio_BR]

I like to have the percent of hit chance in stats window.
I really like the new Death sentence spell for hunters, i just wish hunters could cast it under camo, would be fun.

Trelle save is nice now, only one spot can be reached from enemies, and that spot is in guard range. :metal:

I think the animation for death sentence is nice, but it should be bigger to be more visible to meele allies.

This stage has 2 short duration nice spells for archers, need some tweaks but are great spells.

[Gideon_Slack]

Why all comments complain about hunters. :s

About the new spell for hunters i really like it.

I can't see how Death Sentence is any better or different than Sudden Strike (except with a different way of increasing damage).

Can anyone answer that question?

(And if it is basically a second Sudden Strike, with a lower duration, it would seem then to be taking up a spot in the Scouting tree that could be used by something else).

[_Enio_]

Every class suffers from this. (Apart from mages) You've got the initial mana pool, and if the fight lasts longer than expected... Well, bad luck then. (Assuming there's no nice conju around)

Recharged arrows should stop the mana regeneration, imo, not make the mana constantly go down.

This is not completely true

As Hunter, Knight and Barb you can play in a way conserving and gaining mana in fight by cutting down the spells/buffs you cast while concentrating on normals.

Marks can only deactivate recharged to accomplish this. Its not that other classes dont have the out of mana problem, just on the marks design it feels the biggest for me compared to the other classes.


@Chilko:

I like the changes to critchance calculations, however random is random and i probably wont invest heavily into it as i didnt see much room for heavily stacking it to get a huge effect out of it. I might use it supportive for a high damage sniping configuration when i dont concentrate on useful direct spells.

Hitchance and concentration impact i couldnt really test, i noticed almost no evades on monsters though which i greatly appreciate.

As Mira asked already, has spellresist chance been modified for PvP too?

[Seher]

Complaints about hit chance? Well, it's still not a huge issue when you've just got 20% of your hit chance... Extremely high hit chance on the other hand is working a bit better, at least it feels like I'm hitting more often through escapist with eagles eye and 95 conc/ 125 conc

As Hunter, Knight and Barb you can play in a way conserving and gaining mana in fight by cutting down the spells/buffs you cast while concentrating on normals.

Yeah, cutting down to 2 spells / minute :sifflote: (which is more than comparable to the damage boost of recharged arrows, in fact recharged arrows are far better)

[TheMessenger]

Yeah, cutting down to 2 spells / minute :sifflote: (which is more than comparable to the damage boost of recharged arrows, in fact recharged arrows are far better)

Well I play a lvl 45 barb with 1.2k mana I can say that managing mana is much easier on barb than on marks. And thats with using buffs and spells

[VandaMan]

Tested marks crits against a knight.
22.5% critical hit chance in the character sheet, after buffs.
21/74 hits were critical. (28%)

Seems like a big difference, but it's a small test. Not sure if that's significant. What worries me more is that on the live servers I can get around 75% crit chance with a marksman, shooting from max range. For the majority of marksmen this will increase their critical hits, but for the ones who skilled and used their range to get crits it's quite the nerf.

crits on live servers: http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9265/crits5.jpg

[Comp]

I can't see how Death Sentence is any better or different than Sudden Strike (except with a different way of increasing damage).

Can anyone answer that question?

(And if it is basically a second Sudden Strike, with a lower duration, it would seem then to be taking up a spot in the Scouting tree that could be used by something else).

Gideon_Slack



Increasing damage % dont and decreasing protection are different. Sudden Strike is a shared skill; whereas the new death sentence is specific to the hunter.

With SS my damage goes from 190 to 195 on a werewolf
With DS my damage goes from 190 to 245 on a werewolf

[_Enio_]

Yeah, cutting down to 2 spells / minute :sifflote: (which is more than comparable to the damage boost of recharged arrows, in fact recharged arrows are far better)

Have you actually actively played marks, hunter and barb in war? it should be obvious what difference i am referring to if so..

[Seher]

Yeah, I know what you're referring to...

Well I play a lvl 45 barb with 1.2k mana I can say that managing mana is much easier on barb than on marks. And thats with using buffs and spells

Of course, as you can easily "switch your mana consuming spells off", use less spells, while recharged arrows aren't that flexible. (oh, and marksmen have not very cheap spells additionally, but let's assume the marksman doesn't use them to save mana)
But the effect of recharged arrows is great, giving it as a "passive" would be quite imbalanced. The effect of this spell justifies the mana consumption. Less mana cost would just make it overpowered. (mana regeneration just for marks counts as less mana cost :P)

Anyway... Cold blood, dirty fight + death sentence = 900 dual shot again, feels nice, but I don't think I'll level cold blood.
The crit chance system is really great, the change in hit chance isn't that revolutionary, though. It feels like you just cut it down a bit in general, and in some matters a bit more, like normal mobs and players without finesse & co.

But extremely low hit chance still has got almost the same effect on amun and any other server...

[Kyrottimus]

Objection overruled. you would still get the effect of both spring and onslaught by yourself.

Then why not increase Spring5 to 35% movement speed or reduce Onslaught to 25% (max spring5) so a barb can use spring to keep up with the charge? Or better yet, meet in the middle. Both at +30% at level 5...

That's all we want, is to be able to charge along with those we buff.

[Gideon_Slack]

Gideon_Slack



Increasing damage % dont and decreasing protection are different. Sudden Strike is a shared skill; whereas the new death sentence is specific to the hunter.

With SS my damage goes from 190 to 195 on a werewolf
With DS my damage goes from 190 to 245 on a werewolf

My experience of SS has always been a damage bonus in the neighbourhood of +50 or more, depending on the mob or equipment. (Though if DS is that much better, I should get a much higher bonus from it). Hopefully a warrior can test out the differences between SS and DS on Anum.

I also don't know if Hunters need a subclass specific spell that does roughly the same thing as one in a shared tree. The duration of DS is 30 seconds at all levels. Even at level 1 the duration of SS is 20 seconds with the same -50% protection (while the DS buff scales from 5% to 20%). The SS debuff can also be used by any class, and is useful against targets on fort walls.

Another objection I have is that the Scouting tree seems to be filling up with damage buffs which are more of the territory of Marksmen. (Death Sentence for example, was moved directly from the Aiming Mastery tree into Scouting). It just seems the Hunter is going further down the road into Marx-lite instead of a class based on stealth.

[metsie]

I had 21% crit chance and shot low lvl mobs, I got 5 our of 60 crits so it was less than 10% :P and without pointshot I got more crits, so it feels funny.

hit chance seems to be way better than on horus against mobs, didn't see any players so I could not test how it works against them.

I test crit stuff more tomorrow. :lightsabre:

[_Enio_]

There might be another problem with SS or maybe with all -%protection spells:

IIRC when i tested it on the new knights defstance it dod NOT remove 50% of the knights full Armor points. It only removed 50% of the knights basic Armor points (without the bonus from additional +%ap spells).


I dont think this is intended, so might be a bug. (IIRC it worked normally with evasive tactics before as removing 50% of the total AP including those from Armor point boost spells)

[Mikan]

This is how I would list the classes in order of "mana issues":
1) Conjuror
2) Marksman
3) Barbarian
4) Warlock
5) Knight
6) Hunter

The Conjuror clearly has the worst mana costs due to having to heal and synergy people. The Marksman is a close second since their only spammable attack costs 225 mana (as well as their normal hits). Although with Shield piercing being useful again after the update, that may change a bit.

Kind regards.

[_Enio_]

.. since their only spammable attack costs 250 mana (as well as their normal hits). Although with Shield piercing being useful again after the update, that may change a bit.
(fixed)

Arcana is really nice but so expensive.. to remove 4k hp (on regular armor) with it you would need ~1500 mana..

[Mikan]

(fixed)
Sorry, I am used to having it on level 4, so I forget the costs over time. :sifflote:

[ncvr]

Mana for marksmen is an awkward system in general. They don't get a main 'nuke' (except shield pierce, which hunters also have) which they can spam without worrying about going oom on their second attack. But if they were able to just spam all their arrow mastery skills for 120 mana each, they would do a lot of dmg, especially for the new system. Then again, that dmg is going to be burstier because of cooldowns and not very easy to sustain, so I don't know whether it would be over-the-top or not.

[Gideon_Slack]

More on why I think Death Sentence with a melee damage buff is a bad spell.

Let's consider the basic situation in which this spell would be used: A Hunter and one warrior against a target.

Death Sentence: Hunter casts it on the target, only the allied warrior gets the damage bonus.

Sudden Strike: Hunter casts it on the target, both the hunter and the warrior get the damage bonus.

Compost's post above seems to indicate DS gives +50 more damage per attack than SS. So with DS the warrior would get +50 damage. With SS, one assumes the Hunter and warrior would get a damage bonus roughly equal to what DS would give the warrior alone (large barb damage notwithstanding).

However, in most RvR situations you may have 1 or 2 warriors on a target, supported by far more archers and mages. In these cases, if DS is cast on the target, only the warriors would get the bonus. But if SS is used, then all the ranged classes (archer and mages) get the bonus.

As far as I can tell, the only case where DS outperforms SS would be multiple warriors supported by a single hunter. And how often does that happen in Regnum?

DS appears to have been intended as a single-target debuff for a single Marksman, or group of Marksmen. Translation to melee support doesn't seem to work.

[_Enio_]

More on why I think Death Sentence with a melee damage buff is a bad spell.

Let's consider the basic situation in which this spell would be used: A Hunter and one warrior against a target.

Death Sentence: Hunter casts it on the target, only the allied warrior gets the damage bonus.

Sudden Strike: Hunter casts it on the target, both the hunter and the warrior get the damage bonus.

Compost's post above seems to indicate DS gives +50 more damage per attack than SS. So with DS the warrior would get +50 damage. With SS, one assumes the Hunter and warrior would get a damage bonus roughly equal to what DS would give the warrior alone (large barb damage notwithstanding).

However, in most RvR situations you may have 1 or 2 warriors on a target, supported by far more archers and mages. In these cases, if DS is cast on the target, only the warriors would get the bonus. But if SS is used, then all the ranged classes (archer and mages) get the bonus.

As far as I can tell, the only case where DS outperforms SS would be multiple warriors supported by a single hunter. And how often does that happen in Regnum?

DS appears to have been intended as a single-target debuff for a single Marksman, or group of Marksmen. Translation to melee support doesn't seem to work.

Does that spell boost all damage under 4m range?

Pet and hunter could gain the bonus too then, anyone tested yet?

[Gideon_Slack]

Does that spell boost all damage under 4m range?

Pet and hunter could gain the bonus too then, anyone tested yet?

If this turns out to be the case, then DS should be in the Pet tree, not Scouting. (Because for Pet hunter 1v1 it becomes a Pet support spell).

[BlackLonatic2]

well i just tried it on my lvl 43 marks and the new dead eye thing is Great at lvl 5 would be awesome if the duration was longer like about the same as acrobatic and im definatly seeing the evasion increases especiallly when i cast escapists

GREAT WORK NGD:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

[KryHavoK]

First off, I'm really looking forward to this update

I was on Amun trying out builds for my Mark and of course had to try out the new Dead Eye Spell. I know it's only first iteration and will be tweeked, but I decided to get a base line to see where it's at now. Hopefully the info is helpful to the Devs.

Used my Lvl 47 Mark, RA lvl 5, DE lvl 5, logged just over 450 hits on a Blue Mob using different combos of RA and DE, then crunched some numbers (attached graph, "reported" numbers are taken from the stats, "average" numbers were the averages of the real world testing)

Got ~14.0% criticals (stats said 14.3%, so that seems to be working)

The stats on the bows seem to be misleading. Example for two of the bows I tried: a med. speed LB stats showed it to do 25-30 more points of damage than the fast SB. The Attack Stat showed the LB doing only about 10 more points and real world testing actually resulted in the LB doing a few points less than the SB. (never trust the advertised stats, I guess)

One possible problem: DE reports a -20% attack speed (not exactly sure what that means) but the attack time on all three speeds of bow were increased by 40% (more than I expected). This actually caused the DPS while using DE to be lower than the DPS when not using DE. Also it's obvious that the reported bonuses of both spells don't affect the total damage as the % increases in damage are lower than advertised, so spell descriptions seem to be misleading.

No complaints from me on this new spell as I expect it to be tweeked in the near future. I look forward to using it in it's final form, and after I figure out what bow to use it with.

I basically did this for my own info (if it helps NGD at all, then that's a plus)

[Gabburtjuh]

hey guys

I know that you have issues with:

Onslaught
Dead Eye
Marksmen mana consumption

We also have strong debates about this things internally and as you know this is not the final update.

let's move on to another topic... like hit chance, evasion & criticals against other players and mobs.

evasion has been a major complain by almost every player in the game, please try to test and give us a feedback about this important features modified for this stage.

Add cold blood to that, 6 seconds, really?

[blood-raven]

death eye is only helpfull with eagle's eye but hawks gaze lasts only 60 seconds with a cd of 180 sec, so i would propose or lower the cd of hawks gaze, or remove the -as.

just a tought

regards

[Seher]

Does that spell boost all damage under 4m range?

Pet and hunter could gain the bonus too then, anyone tested yet?

Everyone gets the bonus, I tested it.
(The old death sentence was boosting warriors, too... South cross records <3)

This spell would be overpowered in pets, imo. Maybe it shouldn't even boost pets damage... Or make it some high mana cost area. This spell is great for fort wars, it would be a pity if it became another "fffuuuuuyouophunterssscamoconfuseanddeathsentencea llthetime"

This is how I would list the classes in order of "mana issues":
1) Conjuror
2) Marksman
3) Barbarian
4) Warlock
5) Knight
6) Hunter

The Conjuror clearly has the worst mana costs due to having to heal and synergy people. The Marksman is a close second since their only spammable attack costs 225 mana (as well as their normal hits). Although with Shield piercing being useful again after the update, that may change a bit.

Kind regards.

I've got no mana issues at all with my conju. (For sure, I could syn 5 everyone, but that's not what conjus should be, imo)

[Gideon_Slack]

Everyone gets the bonus, I tested it.
(The old death sentence was boosting warriors, too... South cross records <3)

This spell would be overpowered in pets, imo. Maybe it shouldn't even boost pets damage... Or make it some high mana cost area. This spell is great for fort wars, it would be a pity if it became another "fffuuuuuyouophunterssscamoconfuseanddeathsentencea llthetime"



So this is a confirmation that the new Death Sentence increases Pet damage on the target?

If that's true, then DS appears to be more beneficial to the Pet-using Hunter than Sudden Strike in PvP (still debatable if the same would be true in Fort Wars where Pets can be useless). SS still seems to be the better deal for Petless hunters though.

For this reason, the new DS should be moved to the Pet tree, as it benefits Pet-using hunters only.

[Shwish]

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/sketch59/screenshot.jpg

like barbarians, when a marksman is heavily buffed he could hit equally as hard. but in everyday situations i will not use the Dead Eye skill as the drop in attack speed isn't worth it as mentioned before by many other marksman. For a skill with a 20 second duration and 45 second cooldown i don't see why we need a malus? and attack speed is just too important to drop. this skill is definitely going in the right direction tho

the drop in base attack damage over the last couple of stages has made me want to skill shield pierce :). +1 for that

the new evade and resist rates are awesome. well done with that regards and another +1 for displaying a critical percentage

[Carn]

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/sketch59/screenshot.jpg

like barbarians, when a marksman is heavily buffed he could hit equally as hard. but in everyday situations i will not use the Dead Eye skill as the drop in attack speed isn't worth it as mentioned before by many other marksman. For a skill with a 20 second duration and 45 second cooldown i don't see why we need a malus? and attack speed is just too important to drop. this skill is definitely going in the right direction tho

the drop in base attack damage over the last couple of stages has made me want to skill shield pierce :). +1 for that

the new evade and resist rates are awesome. well done with that regards and another +1 for displaying a critical percentage

Well this kinda sucks. The barbarians should have highest damage in the game in my oppinion. Hitting 1000 on Amun is almost rare, even with attack spells like beast attack, south cross, etc ...

[frank1216]

It's just a 36% chance to hit that high ;)

[Zibnab]

I am playing with a lvl 38 bb and the new evade with the mobs is clearly noticeable. I also like the critical chance in the stats, and the fact that thirst for bloods damage increase is updated.

What I don't like. Yellow colored damage numbers? :p Well, is not such a deal, but I think red looked much better. I guess you want to make it more visible in war. And the leveling. The mobs evade and resist less than before (about time!!) but since we do less damage I need more hits to kill them and I get more damage myself. So, I am not sure whether it is improved or is getting worst. Maybe you should put down mobs' life (which by the way would help balancing hunters pets).

What about Onslaught the bb just going a bit slower than the rest because is playing a horn. It would be great to make an animation and horn sound and force bbs to buy a horn from a merchant in order to use this skill. I think it would look great on war.

[veluchami]

The crit chances seem to be almost the same as I have in the live server. As someone mentioned, the mob evasion rates seem to be the same, if not worse. Nothing noticeably different. I will let experts pass judgement on this though.
I wouldnt spend points on dead eye in its current form. It gave me about 20 damage boost on a normal orc. I was making an average of 240 damage on that mob with Recharged arrows. 30% of total damage would be (about 70) more attractive. And its current duration is too short for it to be of consequence in scoring a kill especially from range. I just used Maneuver (again a common tree skill getting more useful) at 4 to get a better damage boost (50-70), for lesser mana, esp since now the dex points seem to have better value. Also, I was testing the damage boost from Recharged Arrow at 5 is about 50 now on mages.. not much different from hunter damage again.

Besides, with the current points system, I dont have enough power points to have anything equivalent to my earlier build, let alone new spells which are not that useful. With LS usefulness gone due to damage reduction (not worthwhile due to cast time and mana cost), the number of practically useful spells in Aiming tree comes down to just 2- Strat pos and foresight. With strat pos the most important marks spell, I have to lvl up that tree just for that spell.

The damage throughput of marks has come down a lot with the current set of changes. We would need some sort of counter to this in the form of reduced cool down for one of marks specific damage spells.

BUG: The description for serpent bite at lvl 3 shows 300 piercing damage whereas it should have been 70. Also insightful doesnt work with Arcane devotion.

Also can we get some visual feedback for the duration of Escapist (in the lines of sotw, so you dont waste normal hits on the target?) Most similar spells have this.

One request NGD. We might not be able to test these changes exhaustively in amun, due to lack of RvR situations. Please be mentally ready to make more tweaking once these changes are in the live server. Just take a resolve to get the balance good, once and for all. Thanks.

[Aeacus]

Dead eye, a few changes which could make it into the great spell it couold be...
If it was turned into a passive/duration=cd/activatble spell that would be great, increase the AS reduction to 25% and increase the damage to 35-40% ? something that would put the DPS to be the same as it would be without but provide higher amounts of damage if that makes sense. This way marks can choose to do a fast attack, or slow methodical ones. A passive would make it so marks would have to choose what type of set-up they wanted to skill for, so even on a basic lvl some varity in class would be noticed. Just a few thoughts

And while we are on the topic of picking which "type" of marks a player could be maybe move Dead Eye up in the tree and move Hawks Gaze down..? AS is a common set-up and one which many people would skill so a easier way to obain for lower lvls would be there. Maybe lower manna cost or increase duration/reduce Cd. Dead Eye should be a top lvl spell because of the increase it can provide..?

Anyways, just a few thoughts on how we could improve such a awesome spell with great potential. Thoughts on this or another suggestion similar? Give NGD some ideas on how we can make this spell usable and not another broken/lame spell like some others we already have in our trees.

[metsie]

Dead eye, a few changes which could make it into the great spell it couold be...
If it was turned into a passive/duration=cd/activatble spell that would be great, increase the AS reduction to 25% and increase the damage to 35-40% ? something that would put the DPS to be the same as it would be without but provide higher amounts of damage if that makes sense. This way marks can choose to do a fast attack, or slow methodical ones. A passive would make it so marks would have to choose what type of set-up they wanted to skill for, so even on a basic lvl some varity in class would be noticed. Just a few thoughts


IMO if as-penalty is that high, it's just ain't usefull. 30% (as it now) gives 30-40 more damage, so 35-40% would be maybe 40-60 more damage/hit but -25% slower = better dps without it. something like 80-100% damage and -20-25% as could make some difference.

but anyway, they said they are checking it later :p

Death sentence on hunters, I hope it will be changed to spell that doesn't give boost for their pets+archers that are close to target.

[Kyrottimus]

I woke up this Saturday morning, got my coffee and was thoroughly intent on testing the changes to resists/evades/criticals.

Amun got:

"Server is not available: C012 Error"

Even though on the server list it's green and shown as "available".

Just an FYI so we can get back to testing.

EDIT: Amun is back up now. Thanks!

[Carn]

Map Changes

A group of Dwarf engineers have been working on Trelleborg Save. Let’s see if they found a way to stop the camping.
More underground activity of unknown origin around Thorkul’s Rage has been dramatically changing the surrounding landscape.


Any map changes for Syrtis or Ignis planned?

[TheMessenger]

Any map changes for Syrtis or Ignis planned?

They said in one of the threads that they want to change some of the save distances I think and maybe some other stuff

[Gabburtjuh]

Everyone gets the bonus, I tested it.
(The old death sentence was boosting warriors, too... South cross records <3)

This spell would be overpowered in pets, imo. Maybe it shouldn't even boost pets damage... Or make it some high mana cost area. This spell is great for fort wars, it would be a pity if it became another "fffuuuuuyouophunterssscamoconfuseanddeathsentencea llthetime"


We get a SUPPORT SPELL, all spells can be used in a bad way, so dont whine nerf nerf nerf, maybe check it out first? 20% on 200 is only 40 dmg, for a decent amount of mana, while i can do a ens arrow that gives instant 300-500 dmg.

[Hally]

Hitting 1000 on Amun is almost rare, even with attack spells like beast attack, south cross, etc ...

My best score was 1250 yesterday with a slow sword on a player. But ok it is exceptional.
There are however some configurations that allow you to hit at 1000 (just try increase your force). But it seems that the attack speed has been raised up, so that the total DPS may not be that lowered (but I did not really compare).

I ve tested the critical hit chance today and it works pretty well. It is at least very satisfying to know the real critical hit chance.
I wish a similar simple system was made for the hit and evade chance, since it is not obvious was going on.

I have however noticed some strange behavior concerning the way the damages are calculdated.
Example :
the +75 additional damage from brutal impacts is not affected by the +50% damage of berserk whereas it is affected by the +50% of beast attack. The logic behind is not really obvious to me.

[Kyrottimus]

Trell save area is still easily campable by archers who can stand along the ridge and pick off Alsius melee (or mages with shorter range) as they try to get out of the bottle-neck.

Screens of one example of where an archer can "ramp" up onto the ridge:

http://i34.tinypic.com/2ik8m0.jpg
http://i38.tinypic.com/npnvgg.jpg
http://i36.tinypic.com/35i8u1h.jpg
http://i38.tinypic.com/28r0f7p.jpg
http://i38.tinypic.com/wunuit.jpg

[Klutu]

Ive noticed alot more crits which is very nice

Also since NGD has the Map Editor going why not redesign all the Saves

Aggers Save is in a Awkward place on the hill

Samal Save should go back to the oasis & maybe put a mountain so Ignis wont have easy access to Meni

Syrtis Save is Fine..

Castle Saves should be moved back to the beaches & off route of the Teleporters

[e30G]

Heal ally desperately needs to return to a fixed healing effect. It may be balanced now with the lower damages but the feeling of having to cast it multiple times on a single target is frustrating. A higher fixed heal would be nice even if it means slightly longer cds.

[Gourmandine]

Do you really plan to move Stalker Surrounding to level 17 position?
It's supposed to be a support spell and we actually must do sacrifice to get it, especially if you use a pet. Moving it to level 17 position will make it to easy for hunters with pet to get it.
http://pix.toile-libre.org/?img=1281808098.jpg

[Kyrottimus]

I was testing the Crit-Chance % in the char window (great addition btw, it adds a new layer of understanding for characters) and I discovered that Conc still isn't as weighted as I think it should be.

On my barb, (who is nordo, +5 more conc than Utghars and Dwarves), I have base Concentration of 65. With that, my crit-chance is 17.5%. With a +2 conc ring it goes up to 17.8%.

A level 50 Utghar barb with 60 base Concentration has crit-chance of 17.1% or 17.2% (I think).

In testing, the difference is so minuscule that it's still almost not even worth it. Whereas in testing 5str and 5const difference for a warrior matter a lot.

But what we still don't see is a spell-focus rating in the character window. Show that value in the character window and I think weight Concentration a little more heavily towards hit-chance, crit-chance and spell focus (so the +5 makes up for Nordo's loss of base 5str and 5const), because right now the 5 extra base conc seem to make no difference at all.

I originally picked Nordo because I wanted to make a well-rounded barbarian, one with a good mix in base stats, core foundation and versatility.

I think Concentration, for all classes, should be weighted a little more per added point.

Thanks.

[theotherhiveking]

I was testing the Crit-Chance % in the char window (great addition btw, it adds a new layer of understanding for characters) and I discovered that Conc still isn't as weighted as I think it should be.

On my barb, (who is nordo, +5 more conc than Utghars and Dwarves), I have base Concentration of 65. With that, my crit-chance is 17.5%. With a +2 conc ring it goes up to 17.8%.

A level 50 Utghar barb with 60 base Concentration has crit-chance of 17.1% or 17.2% (I think).

In testing, the difference is so minuscule that it's still almost not even worth it. Whereas in testing 5str and 5const difference for a warrior matter a lot.

But what we still don't see is a spell-focus rating in the character window. Show that value in the character window and I think weight Concentration a little more heavily towards hit-chance, crit-chance and spell focus (so the +5 makes up for Nordo's loss of base 5str and 5const), because right now the 5 extra base conc seem to make no difference at all.

I originally picked Nordo because I wanted to make a well-rounded barbarian, one with a good mix in base stats, core foundation and versatility.

I think Concentration, for all classes, should be weighted a little more per added point.

Thanks.


17.5%!

My barb has 60 points of concentration and i have a 14.2 crit chance O_o.

[UmarilsStillHere]

17.5%!

My barb has 60 points of concentration and i have a 14.2 crit chance O_o.


Wep quality also has something to do with it, for example I have 50 Conc and 16.8 crit chance. With Eve hammer (Master +33)

[theotherhiveking]

Wep quality also has something to do with it, for example I have 50 Conc and 16.8 crit chance.

It doesnt affect it that much, each 'quality' step is about 0.2 crit chance.

My normal mace is 14, my enhanced swords and axes are 14.2, and my great spear is 14.4

So there should be only a 0.2 diffence, unless the final quality as a uber modifier instead, but that would make all the other worthless.

[LawZ]

Hi all.

I discovered something which looks like a bug.

I have beastmaster gauntlets of fine steel (great) which give +1 concentration and +21 hit chance...

Without wearing them, my hit chance is 405 and my critical chance 14.2%.
Wearing them, it goes to 492 and 16.5%, which is wrong imo...

1 concentration gives arround 4hc and 0.1% so it should total add like 26 hc and 0.1%. Not 87 hc and 2.3%...

I am sure the problem is caused by them, cause i have tested all my items separately...
Mira tried them too, same "wrong" results...

Thx

[theotherhiveking]

Yeah i just noticed that, the hitchance, not just hitchance bonus on items has now a HUGE effect.

They are really worth something, and are not imba, its awesome!, my test got those results because my weapons has 10, 12 and 14 hitchance :p

[PT_DaAr_PT]

I can't beleve I sold my tenax gaunts for 350 mags D:

[UmarilsStillHere]

Ahh I didnt know HC also effected Crit chance, must be my +22 hc gauntlets then.

14.6% without 16.8% with.

[Kyrottimus]

Ahh I didnt know HC also effected Crit chance, must be my +22 hc gauntlets then.

14.6% without 16.8% with.

Yeah, with +25hc guants and +14hc on sword I notice a huge jump.

It seems Hit-Chance has more weight towards Crit-chance than raw Conc does.

I still think players should be able to see the value for their Spell Focus as well in their character window. But seeing % in crit-chance is a huge improvement.

Edit: On live server my hit chance is 361, on amun my base is now 555. Awesome and evades are fewer now. They still happen quite a bit but far less ridiculous. In testing with and without hit-chance items, hit-chance seems to work as well as crit-chance (they both seem to have noticeable differences so I would say this is effectively "fixed" in this regard).

Resists, however, still seem to be way too abundant.

[Miraculix]

It doesn't just boost Crit Chance. +21 HC on the gloves ended up giving something like 90 HC on the character window. Looks like a bug to me.

[theotherhiveking]

I think its intentional. You really do need those huge bonuses for people to care.


I having trouble getting ones for my barb on RA, people sell them to merchants.. or store them in some clan mule and forget..

[UmarilsStillHere]

Well untill now they were largely thaught useless, I only have mine because someone in clan chat mentioned he was going to see them to npc :p

[Kyrottimus]

Well untill now they were largely thaught useless, I only have mine because someone in clan chat mentioned he was going to see them to npc :p

+1

Finally, it seems, consideration of Concentration and Hit-Chance will be of value to players!

[KryHavoK]

It looks like the +hitchance is actually +hitchance%

For RuLeZ, starting at 405 hit chance then adding +21% would give 490 then adding the Concentraton bonus would put it around the 492 you are seeing.

[Gideon_Slack]

Do you really plan to move Stalker Surrounding to level 17 position?
It's supposed to be a support spell and we actually must do sacrifice to get it, especially if you use a pet. Moving it to level 17 position will make it to easy for hunters with pet to get it.
http://pix.toile-libre.org/?img=1281808098.jpg

I assume Hunters keep their pets under Stalker?

The question is will pet-users move to Pet + Stalker for ganking and ambushes (at bridges and so on)?

Stalker has a long cooldown, but I have no doubt gankers have the patience to wait it out.

It will be interesting to see how much of a problem this will be.

[theotherhiveking]

+critchance influence of the hit-chance items is a overkill... but only if you compare them to +concentration items and skills, because +2% critchance isnt going to crush you at all, while it still looks like a nice bonus.

Concentration should influence hit-chance more, while the +hit-chance influence should be reduced by using smaller numbers on the items and removing the hit-chance bonuses on storebrought weapons to accentuate the bonus for the people who actively seek to have lots of crits or high precision.

The reason conc still feels a bit useless is that people go around with +25hitchance gloves and +19+ hitchance weapons, the hitchance influence on everything is correct, but the bonus numbers are waay too high.

Capping the bonus around 15 (still an huge bonus), removing the hitchance bonus from store weapon and making the concentration have some extra influence would fix it, as these changes would kind of cancel each other, while encouraging more varied configs making the difference really obvious for everyone, and would make concentration more attractive overall.

-----------

Shown numbers should be processed. If those +15 points of damage will be turned into 10 then show 10, this is even more important for the weapon base damage, which is highly misleading.

Attribute influences, delay between attacks, and cast speeds should be shown on the character sheet, same with spell focus.


----------

Mobs resists is still too high, but i understand that has yet to be fixed.

---------

Dex passives for warriors have still to be replaced. Seems like Conc would be a good alternative now.

[Klutu]

some things ive noticed from doing more testing..

Knights need more Crowd Controls.. - They can't compete with a barb who have more CC & out Damage them..

Simple ideas..

Make Back slam increase %%% on each lvl or make it a cannot attack..

Provoking Blow -> -15 dex/str/int/conc on all lvls

Shield Bash - Instant

Taunt - Make it Castable VS Enemies

I fought against alot of knights today & there damage is so small now that they need more CC to be able to win a 1 on 1 encounter

[Klutu]

Dex passives for warriors have still to be replaced. Seems like Conc would be a good alternative now.

Yes - Dex isn't useful to warriors & I don't see Archers or Mages with a str passive

[Comp]

I assume Hunters keep their pets under Stalker?

The question is will pet-users move to Pet + Stalker for ganking and ambushes (at bridges and so on)?

Stalker has a long cooldown, but I have no doubt gankers have the patience to wait it out.

It will be interesting to see how much of a problem this will be.

Guys - stalker isn't at 17 - it looks to me like a spell is missing. My guess is they are re-working "reveal" which was on a version of amun a day or so ago.

[von1958]

stalker is a lvl19 spell

[Gideon_Slack]

Guys - stalker isn't at 17 - it looks to me like a spell is missing. My guess is they are re-working "reveal" which was on a version of amun a day or so ago.

Yep, just checked this out on Amun.

Stalker is at level 19. Looks like the missing spell is at Level 5.

[Kyrottimus]

I just thought of something. Trell market is now way far from the new trell save location.

Shouldn't it be moved to be closer to trell save, like all the other markets and saves?

[_Enio_]

Hitchance on bows seems to be +%, probably on gauntlets too.

Escapist lvl5 is bugged, it has only +1000 evade instead of +1500 as lvl1-4 have.

Another interesting thing is, with 1574 hc you can hit nicely through Escapist.

Edit: As stated 3 posts later +hc on bows/gear is multiplied by 4 to get the actual bonus..

[Gourmandine]

Yep, just checked this out on Amun.

Stalker is at level 19. Looks like the missing spell is at Level 5.

Yes, my bad. I posted too fast about it.

[theotherhiveking]

Hitchance bonus is hitchance *4; not a %.

[_Enio_]

Hitchance bonus is hitchance *4; not a %.

oh that explains some weird numbers, thanks

[Pimousse]

Yes - Dex isn't useful to warriors & I don't see Archers or Mages with a str passive

Agree. But i think Dext should be usefull for warriors. Why warriors couldn't increase their evade chance ? (they have still 2 skills for increasing critical hit chance : Execution in blunt weapon tree and Martial Reflexes in tactic tree).

And "off topic", ons should affect the caster, barbs are not generals sending troop to the death :p That's a rollplay mistake that ons doesn't affect caster anymore. Barbs have already Off With Their Head to buff ally. And Horus players are knowing well that there are not always several barbarian in war group.
That's not a winning, NGD ask for our opinion, that's mine :)

[tarashunter]

Chilko just give some reason on why barbs can't cast onsl on themself.He said that barbs,with onsl got more speed and thatn it can result unbilanced in 1 vs 1 because barb can use spring + onsl,and on that Chilko is right.
But i remeber in the last update announcement that 1 user gived a good advice:
onls don't effect the barb if he is alone.
Onsl effect the barb if he have allied near him.
In this way barb get not advantave by onsl if he is in 1 vs 1.That user gived a nice idea for me.
Then,yesterday we had some test on amun with some alsius and ignis friends,and as klutu said,knight vs a barbs got no hight chance to win.
This is right only if knight don't use Ao1.
Personally yesterday i have not used Ao1 in my pvps.
Use it in 1 vs 1 is a coward action....the knight is God for 50 sec,so the barb with all his CC can't be able to stop knight,and i'm sure that knight can win the pvp,but we must try it anyway to be sure.
Then we done some test with Enio too knight vs marks.
Well is an infinite duel.
Mark is not able to defeat knight (if knight got casted on himself defencive stance because marks normal result around 40 dmg,too low to worry a knight).
By the other way knight is not able to get near marks,because if well setted marks can use many spell to keep far the knight.
After 20 minutes of pvp between me and Enio,Enio still got full HP (i never never get close to him,he was able to take me at 10 m to him or more),and me got just -300/400 hp(nothing for a knight).
We decided to stop the pvp because was rediculus after 20 minutes ^^.
Using the same spell(defencive stance--->+50% resist dmg for 240 sec. with lower cd,it means it can be casted permanent mode on the knight),well this spell seems have not effect on melee weapon.
If i cast defencive stance 1 arrow that usually do 300 dmg,will do around 40/80 dmg.
If i cast defencive stance and a barb hit me,barb is able to do on me full dmg(ex normal of 500 dmg?after defencive stance barb is able to do 500 dmg anyway),the same for knight vs knight,defencive stance seems not work on meleee weapons.If anyother can test and give me confirm it would be nice.
Than about the 1 vs 1,now hunter are not able to do dmg on a warrior,barb or knight.
For me this is unbalanced.
Ok we finally will have no solitary hunter going around on hunt,and this is good because now they must be 2 or 3 to defeat a single warrior as we tested on amun,but in 1 vs 1 it can result frustrant for hunter now.
That's all for now.

[Mikan]

Using the same spell(defencive stance--->+50% resist dmg for 240 sec. with lower cd,it means it can be casted permanent mode on the knight),well this spell seems have not effect on melee weapon.
Just a clarification...

This skill does not resist 50% damage, it only increases your armor by 200% (at level 5) which is why it mostly only works on archers' arrows and not melee. The 10-50% listed there is a description bug from the old Protector spell, which gave up to 50% block and was removed.

Kind regards.

[UmarilsStillHere]

UM/Ao1 I feel have FAR to much impact in knight/barb fights now, if both are casted fine, if neither are caster barb gets raped by CC chains, if Um but not Ao1 are caster Knight gets raped without being able to do much about it.

So if only 1 is casted or even both in some cases people just run away, in the same way every other class runs away from Um or Ao1.

To much swings on these spells now Imo.

It makes me think things like Feint could be moved to spears, or the CD's on knocks could be increased, but I also dont like how this could effect war. But that feint and kick together give a 16 second knock with 25/20 second CD's respectivly makes it to easy to use them both, stall 4 seconds, then use them again.

[Pimousse]

Feint in spear ? No thx, i have a sword and i didn't use kick and don't want put 15 at tactic ...

And yes tarashunter, i like the suggestion for ons too. Anyway, i think, since this is a pvp problem, we should test a pvp barb vs archer. Archers have still some good protection and evades skill. Don't know if its really imbalanced as Chilko said. If i find motivation to test, i'll post feedback :)

[tarashunter]

Mikan thanx for the clarification you are right.I done an erro in the description.
As you said, defencive stance now give +% armour bonus.
I add another correction the cd is 120 sec,the duration is 180 sec at lvl 4.
An yes,it got great impact on arrows,and low impact on melee.
But i first said that it doesn't work on melee,i must correct my self again.
After a new test,i saw that it works on melee too,but the effect is lower(for expample 1 knight hitting me with a normal hammer do 270 normal,after i cast defencive stance he do 180/220).

To Umaril:yes for me is really easy make my enemy stay down for 14 sec(kock and feint both lvl 4) and get 2/3 of their hp while they are down.
Today in my test i fight vs barb that used UM, and i don't used Ao1,but i must say that i was relly near the win i lost for few HP.
So UM by my experiance in a duel Barb vs knight is not so OP.
Ao1 is OP in that duel (even if the barb is not equipped with an hammer and is able to use MindSquasher,in that case knight is death for sure).

Anyway guys,i got trouble in do that kind of test,because i'm not a good player with my 2 warriors,i need more experience,so this kind of test must be done by expert player too,of both the classes(barb and knight).

To Pimousse:Yesterday we done Barb vs Marks too,but i don't remember the result.So Enio and Klutu may be can tell more about that test.
And yes,When i get 1 time close to Enio he was able to activate escaipist so i can't hit him for some seconds while he can cast another trick on me to get again 10 m. from me.
But if i do Only 1 resist+spring i'm able again to get close to him.
Anyway you are right,we need other archers and other barbs that test it too.
For the hunter i can for sure say that vs barb or vs knight ,hunter is ever a dead walk char now.
The only solution that hunter have is cast distracting shot and go camo,or caltrops harrow and try to run away,but if hunter is in only 30 m. range by a barb or knight,warriors with spring 4 easly are able to reach and defeat him him few seconds.
Things are different for a marks,that can count on tricks(ambush,distracting,stunning fist,caltro arrow)+ their tipical spell(burst of wind+freeze+lighing arrow).
So the marks with only 3 more spell is able to survive and run away from a warrior.
Anyway would be nice have more test about it.

[UmarilsStillHere]

I did some fights with Faith Vs Enio as well, he can easily wear Um down with lightning arrow/caltrops and after that its a solved fight but Im not sure if he will use them both in war.

We was also able to kill me quite easily starting at max range without kiting using damage and a sotw/escapist/stunfist combo. No ranged CC was used.

But this is Enio :p He has more mana and damage capability than most marks around so tests with others are needed.

Also yesterday was the first time Klutu ever beat Enio is a pvp, but he resisted a lot.

Warriors are still at a disadvantage in 1v1s vs archers, but the gap vs warlocks is improved now Cs is slightly less and SK is less of a bitch. Locks may not like it but in this new balance a instant 1khit+1kheal spell is way ott no matter how much you talk about mana cost or range.

[Aasiora-Leif]

I noticed a bug on Amun having to do with the spellbook. When I'm dragging my spells from the book to my quickbar, if I drag one of the empty spaces, I sometimes get a random spell that I didn't skill for. Give it a try.

[Klutu]

Also yesterday was the first time Klutu ever beat Enio in a pvp, but he resisted a lot.

It still Counts!! :P

I nearly beat him once on SoL but a random group of Alsius came & killed me during the pvp - To this day i still think that was a staged group of goats xD

Ontopic

Any marks should be able to keep a barb off him until UM runs out - I don't consider it "cowardly" like some barbs on Amun :P - it's just playing smart

Don't expect me to fight head to head vs a knight with ao1 on & me lacking ms. Im gonna try & CC that Knight to run out the duration

It's not exactly a Marks issue it's a players issue - Most marks tend to put damage over CC - Biggest mistake imo

Edit:

About onslaught i tend to agree with NGD about onslaught.. You don't see Shield Wall affecting the caster

I would improve onslaught by..

Increasing Spell Range to 10

increasing 1 hit damage bonus to 250 (lvl 5)

Increasing duration to 15

It doesn't need to affect the caster but it needs to have the range to reach all your allies - Also with the new damage reductions 250 blunt damage makes it more of a "rushing" spell

[UmarilsStillHere]

I tend to set my marks mainly for CC, recharged and etheral/arcania are enough offence for me, and I love stunfisting barbs at gates >:]

Still think that now more than ever barbs need less dependance on buffs.

[Mashu]

Hi I stoped playing because barbs sucked, now I hear from many that they want to make it the weakest class in the game. Is that true ?

[UmarilsStillHere]

They are not great 1v1 vs ranged class's with a buttload of CC, but neither are knights, yet to play mine in a war situation.

Best way to find out is get on the test server and see what you make of it.

[cokolwiek]

Hi I stoped playing because barbs sucked, now I hear from many that they want to make it the weakest class in the game. Is that true ?

Nooo not at all
NGD is genius

they are Nerfing warrior damege to make them more attractive xD

(yes this is sarcasm -.-)

[Mashu]

Nooo not at all
NGD is genius

they are Nerfing warrior damege to make them more attractive xD

(yes this is sarcasm -.-)

Well I removed RO a time ago, because it was bad balanced, now this looks like even more ridiculous. I never saw rpg in which warrior is a meat against ranged classes, except this one. Really sad that I invested in xims and that RO went into that direction.

Anyway enjoy your warriors,

[Klutu]

Well I removed RO a time ago, because it was bad balanced, now this looks like even more ridiculous. I never saw rpg in which warrior is a meat against ranged classes, except this one. Really sad that I invested in xims and that RO went into that direction.

Anyway enjoy your warriors,

Umm have you even played on Amun?

[tarashunter]

To Mashu:Mashu the best way to understand how warrior are now is:
-reinstall RO
-Log your barb on Amun
-Try a pvp vs hunter or mark
To all that thinks warrior still suck,remember you are in wz,you can hide back trees or rocks till the marks don't come in range(because i repeat hunter is not a problem is a death class now^^).
Marks now got ridiculus speed,so if he can't cast escaipist first you kick him,he easly die.
The pnly trouble for barb is to run for 35m till reach the marks.
But done that marks=death.
Not all marx are OP with their items.
Not all marks are enough experienced to take a barb ever at 35 m from them.
Not all marks will go around for the war zone in RvR game with the set for pvp(so full of tricks) so they can't take you off by 35 m.
At that point you cast spring and you are on them,wait few second escaipist end,then fight him.
A Marks do really low dmg on a buffed marb now.Try it.
Try it with the different set(pvp RvR).
Babr can use in PvP the RvR set too,and they can kill with that set a marks.
Is not the reverse for the marks.If the marks is In rvr set,so long range,few tricks,he only will have freeze,burst of wind,stunning,ambush escaipist....but then???he will be out of mana and close to barb.

[Kyrottimus]

About onslaught i tend to agree with NGD about onslaught.. You don't see Shield Wall affecting the caster


That's a fallacious comparison. Casting shield wall does not grant allies speed, therefore leaving the knight behind and out of the fight. He can cast it on his allies and still keep up with them.

This is our argument. Not the area or damage bonus, but the speed. Obviously NGD doesn't want barbs to stack ons/spring. Well considering everyone has had their speed nerfed, why not bring the 50% speed cap down to 35% (max of ons5) for all non-mounted players? That would solve that problem, wouldn't it?

And regarding chaining ons/spring together one after the other, well, Hamster of Sorrow already posted an elegant solution, to make it so it only works when it also affects allies.

If I can't charge with the people I'm buffing, I wont use it.

It's 5 power points and 310mp and whereas both power points and mana are at such a high value for barbs already, I can better diversify my build with more tools for the warzone by dropping Onslaught altogether, rather than using up 5 power points for something I can only find use for 20% of the time.

I can't justify skilling it, and can't even think of many instances where I as the offensive warrior class, barbarian, will need to send my warriors into battle only for me to catch up after most of the action.

Since 80% of the fights I get into are small scale, I simply won't sacrifice the points for it. I really would sooner go into Off With Their Heads again because that doesn't cause me to fall behind.

The consideration is for every barb to make, Cost vs. Reward. I know this. NGD knows this. But I know this change will make it a far less-utilized, less desirable and overall less fun spell for barbs to access.

I initially played barb to move fast and hit hard. On this update, both of those once-attractive features of the class now have been diminished. I hope it is possible for NGD to take another look at barbs and do some more changes to their spells (like they've been doing to marksman and hunters) to give them a little more attractive and fun things (and functional).

I want to play barb for the action. Things like Off With Their Heads and Onslaught now will both apply realm vs. realm tactics to buffing allies, but they both will not, in any way, add more action to the casting barb. The only feedback a Barbarian gets with OWTH is the cool animation and then nothing, his allies hit a little harder but his own action in combat is not increased or felt to any greater effect. Now Ons is in the same class.

Barbs want to lead charges and find themselves at the heart of the action, not dawdling about at the far edges of it, chaining OWTH and Onslaught to all their nearby allies.

Needless to say there are still almost a half-dozen un-utilized Barbarian spells because in fairness, they suck. *cough* Rend *cough* Fulminating *cough* Destabilize *cough* Intimidating Threat. Rage of the Earth has been improved to be attractive to barbs now.

It's not that these spells can't find uses, it's just for the purpose of Barbarian, and for most people who play them, they're not really exciting or fun attacks. Sure, used in the right sequence by someone with a specific tactic in mind, could find a niche` for one or more of them.

But now Onslaught has been turned into a tool for RP-leeching with archer allies or door-area spamming with warrior allies only (or charging with two barbs with Onslaught5, which after this update, on horus, will not be a frequent occurrence). And because of this, I would like to see some changes to barbarians regarding more fun options of play--not less.

Back on topic:

I've already posted my findings regarding Stage 6. I'm really happy with them all, and my only "complaint" on it is that resists are still far too ridiculous.

In a recent PvP with my knight vs another knight on amun, I resisted 5 attack spells, evaded 2 normals and blocked 3 normals/spells.

It wasn't fun for me, and it wasn't fun for the other knight. Just saying.

[Seher]

We get a SUPPORT SPELL, all spells can be used in a bad way, so dont whine nerf nerf nerf, maybe check it out first? 20% on 200 is only 40 dmg, for a decent amount of mana, while i can do a ens arrow that gives instant 300-500 dmg.

All spells can be used in a bad way, but that doesn't mean you can't do anything to prevent it.
And actually I'm worrying that it could be used as another normal spell for pvps and not in fort wars, not crying for a nerf. I'd rather see this spell boosted even more (but unusable for pvps then), or have it as an area.

[Gabburtjuh]

All spells can be used in a bad way, but that doesn't mean you can't do anything to prevent it.
And actually I'm worrying that it could be used as another normal spell for pvps and not in fort wars, not crying for a nerf. I'd rather see this spell boosted even more (but unusable for pvps then), or have it as an area.

almost all areas have a long cd, this would be another spell thats only usefull once every charge >.<

[Seher]

Hehe yeah I dislike those spells, too.

But 20% damage bonus and 3m area wouldn't be overpowered with short cooldown, even 6 not. (I'd prefer 6m area, up to x enemies, but the selection priority shouldn't be the same like stalker surrounding ;D)

[metsie]

I did some testing on amun.

passive conc5 from lb's, crit buff from sb's + 30conc buff from sb's + superior bow with +5conc + 5conc gloves = 125 conc 29.7% crit chance (18.2% without buffs)

And I can barely see difference between buffed and unbuffed amount of crits, + this setup is purely testing, never could use 19lbs+19sbs in war.

So IMO it's worthless to skill for crits like this :p

edit: well sometimes it seems to be about as it shows on char screen, but still dunno if 10-15% more crits is worth of tons of power points+buffing

[Kaschka]

i wonder in which way knights are improved now.

The new defensive stance spell is crap. It doesn't protect me from melee dmg and it protects me badly from spells (400 - 600dmg from barb).
With the old protector i was able to get close to a warlock. Now with the new one i got better defense.. but I'm sure i won't have any mana left when reaching the warlock.
What is this spell good for? was it thought as a nerf? cause in my eyes it is a nerf.

the new knight buffs... well its boring to be a "buff-class" . standing in the fort, buffing every 30 seconds... --> no fun, i guess i won't skill any of those buffs very high.
honestly at the moment my buffed conjurer (on amun) is dealing the same dmg as my buffed knight.

plz give knights rather some crowd controll spells. all classes except hunter have class specific crowd control spells.
U want players to have fun right? buffing everyone which is see as the main role of the knight in the coming update is boring.

/edit: sry guess this is the wrong thread... hasn't got anything to do with crits and evasion

btt: I noticed some bug on my knight, at least i'm not sure if this is intentional. when wearing a weapon that gives +5 strength i get like +3 crit chance. (got same weapon without strength bonus for testing)
other itms like helm with strength don't increase crit chance.

[Yttrium]

Knights seem unhappy. How about giving them Static Field and adding something else to the staff mastery tree? This would give knights the option of slowing down enemies charging at the allies they are trying to protect. It would also help them keep enemies from running away.

Hardly any mages use this spell because 6m is mostly ineffective for personal defense; however, that should be enough for knights to help protect allies behind them.

[Klutu]

I think it's time to test these balance stages in something other then pvp


NGD should setup Amun for some - open field fights - Fort Fights - Bridge Fights - Castle Fights - then continue on from the feedback given.

[PT_DaAr_PT]

Knights seem unhappy. How about giving them Static Field and adding something else to the staff mastery tree? This would give knights the option of slowing down enemies charging at the allies they are trying to protect. It would also help them keep enemies from running away.

Hardly any mages use this spell because 6m is mostly ineffective for personal defense; however, that should be enough for knights to help protect allies behind them.


Give Confuse to Knights and we'll be happy. :3

[_Enio_]

Camouflage cast needs to be cancellable by evades and resists.

SoW & Escapist in combination easily allow you to get in camo while a barb is on your face.

(This issue occurs only with Camouflage, Stalker surroundings gets cancelled by evades)

[Gideon_Slack]

Camouflage cast needs to be cancellable by evades and resists.

SoW & Escapist in combination easily allow you to get in camo while a barb is on your face.

(This issue occurs only with Camouflage, Stalker surroundings gets cancelled by evades)

I have no problem with Camo being easier to use.

In fact, I think it should be made even easier with an Instant Cast.

With the speed nerf, Camo is the only thing that makes a Hunter stealthy. It should be made stronger.

(NGD appears to be going in this direction -- I think they said they are adding the ability to buff under Camo).

[_Enio_]

I have no problem with Camo being easier to use.

In fact, I think it should be made even easier with an Instant Cast.

With the speed nerf, Camo is the only thing that makes a Hunter stealthy. It should be made stronger.

(NGD appears to be going in this direction -- I think they said they are adding the ability to buff under Camo).

Yes, strengthen it in tactical use, not give another easy escape spell..

[doppelapfel]

I have no problem with Camo being easier to use.

In fact, I think it should be made even easier with an Instant Cast.

With the speed nerf, Camo is the only thing that makes a Hunter stealthy. It should be made stronger.

(NGD appears to be going in this direction -- I think they said they are adding the ability to buff under Camo).

This would make it even easier for hunters to escape a fight then with the current sotw, passiv speed, lp and mob combo. :thumb_down: Could be only prevented by taking away lot of mana from the hunter (hard for barbarians, impossible for knights and archers) or constant ccing (hard for warriors, hard for archers without confuse).

Static field and confuse for knights would be nice (confuse as a meele attack of course).

[Froste]

Static field for knights (although slightly more powered up than it currently is for mages) sounds like a brilliant idea, and it sort of falls in line with previous discussions about knights being made solid to prevent enemies from walking through them, so they can actually block. Static field is a very very nice compromise idea on that.

[Gideon_Slack]

This would make it even easier for hunters to escape a fight then with the current sotw, passiv speed, lp and mob combo. :thumb_down: Could be only prevented by taking away lot of mana from the hunter (hard for barbarians, impossible for knights and archers) or constant ccing (hard for warriors, hard for archers without confuse).

Static field and confuse for knights would be nice (confuse as a meele attack of course).

Most games with stealth classes do have a stealth escape skill usable in combat. (Runes of Magic rogues have Vanish, Witch Hunters in Warhammer Online have Flee).

Regnum had this too, it was called "Speed" (SotW, Wild Spirit, and Mobility).

By taking out speed, NGD has removed one side of the stealth class equation that is present in most other games. I hope they do something to return it. Or as has been said previously, the game will have a crippled stealth class.

[doppelapfel]

Most games with stealth classes do have a stealth escape skill usable in combat. (Runes of Magic rogues have Vanish, Witch Hunters in Warhammer Online have Flee).

Regnum had this too, it was called "Speed" (SotW, Wild Spirit, and Mobility).

By taking out speed, NGD has removed one side of the stealth class equation that is present in most other games. I hope they do something to return it. Or as has been said previously, the game will have a crippled stealth class.

Its incredible lame to fight someone and if he sees that he loses he just presses one button to be invisible for more than 1 minute without any ability to cancel it (as said above preventing it is very hard). Not other class can do that, its just stupid. Its even worse than the current system (running with sotw/running with lp and passiv speed). Hunters can use it to flee, its easy in combination with stunning fist, ambush or dist. shot.

[Gideon_Slack]

Its incredible lame to fight someone and if he sees that he loses he just presses one button to be invisible for more than 1 minute without any ability to cancel it (as said above preventing it is very hard). Not other class can do that, its just stupid. Its even worse than the current system (running with sotw/running with lp and passiv speed). Hunters can use it to flee, its easy in combination with stunning fist, ambush or dist. shot.

No other class has massive nuke spells like Sultar's Terror.

Should warlocks give up their ability to nuke?

You may not like stealth classes, as most people don't. But they exist in all MMO's, for a simple reason. Because like nuking mages, a segment of customers likes to play them.

NGD should make sure Regnum continues to have a viable stealth class.

[_Enio_]

No other class has massive nuke spells like Sultar's Terror.

Should warlocks give up their ability to nuke?

You may not like stealth classes, as most people don't. But they exist in all MMO's, for a simple reason. Because like nuking mages, a segment of customers likes to play them.

NGD should make sure Regnum continues to have a viable stealth class.

You seriously mix stuff up here.

[doppelapfel]

No other class has massive nuke spells like Sultar's Terror.

Should warlocks give up their ability to nuke?

You may not like stealth classes, as most people don't. But they exist in all MMO's, for a simple reason. Because like nuking mages, a segment of customers likes to play them.

NGD should make sure Regnum continues to have a viable stealth class.

ST is now worse than typhoon. Locks lost their greatest ability of nuking. Camo with instant cast is insane, NGD stated that they dont want this unstoppable run-away stuff by nerfing speedskills. I did not say that i want to remove camo at all or anything but what you suggested is just to much, its still not hard to flee from a fight without the speed (as i said, ambush/fist/dist. shot + camo), why do you want to make it even more easy, less skill depending and frustrating for enemies? I dont think that hunters are meant to be able to flee from almost every situation with a spell like that.

[Gideon_Slack]

You seriously mix stuff up here.

I don't see how.

In all MMO's there are basic classes. Nuking mage, tank with high hit points, the stealthy rogue, and so on.

As I said above, the basic characteristics of the rogue usually include entering and exiting battle in a stealthy manner.

The only question is how successful he will be in doing that. If it is too hard for other classes to catch him, then the abilities should be nerfed.

This is NGD's solution to over-powered nukes for Warlocks. Instead of taking the nukes away from them, they nerf them downwards (as in the case of Sultar's Terror).

For the Regnum stealth class, however, so far all Hunters know is that speed has been taken away entirely, and not replaced with anything else. Personally, I want to keep playing a viable stealth class in the game, which is why I'm putting forth this perspective.

[Klutu]

As long as hunters have Camo they will be a stealth class

But having Hunters capable of Camoing instantly is just a horrible thought.

Hunters already have the ability to Pick & Choose there fights they shouldn't have the ability to Run from the fight if things are not going there way.

Like Enio said previously - Evades & Resists should cancel Camo's Cast.

[Mattdoesrock]

Can Knight's pleeeeeeeeeeeease get some small healing skills?

[Gideon_Slack]

As long as hunters have Camo they will be a stealth class

But having Hunters capable of Camoing instantly is just a horrible thought.

Hunters already have the ability to Pick & Choose there fights they shouldn't have the ability to Run from the fight if things are not going there way.

Like Enio said previously - Evades & Resists should cancel Camo's Cast.

One of the problems with the Hunter class in Regnum is that they get too many defensive buffs from the Evasion tree.

In most other games, the stealth class is far more squishy than the Regnum hunter. Entering combat for them is a very high risk thing, so they need the stealth escape skill.

My Hunter is currently set up like a stealth class from another game. My only points in Evasion are Mobility 4 and Low Profile 3 (though I agree Low Profile needs a nerf). With this build, I have to rely on speed instead of Acrobatic or Evasive Tactics for defense.

I play this way because I find it fun. If I have to go Acrobatic or Evasive for defense, then I'm afraid I'll lose half the identity of my class.

And for stealth escape skills, they obviously should not be at the same level as the ones that help set up an encounter. Most others game set them at just a fraction of the basic stealth skill -- risky, but enough to get away some portion of the time.

[doppelapfel]

One of the problems with the Hunter class in Regnum is that they get too many defensive buffs from the Evasion tree.

In most other games, the stealth class is far more squishy than the Regnum hunter. Entering combat for them is a very high risk thing, so they need the stealth escape skill.

My Hunter is currently set up like a stealth class from another game. My only points in Evasion are Mobility 4 and Low Profile 3 (though I agree Low Profile needs a nerf). With this build, I have to rely on speed instead of Acrobatic or Evasive Tactics for defense.

I play this way because I find it fun. If I have to go Acrobatic or Evasive for defense, then I'm afraid I'll lose half the identity of my class.

And for stealth escape skills, they obviously should not be at the same level as the ones that help set up an encounter. Most others game set them at just a fraction of the basic stealth skill -- risky, but enough to get away some portion of the time.

This is Ro no any other game. NGD does not have to steal every aspect of other mmos like some ppl seem to think. You have the ability to use defense spells, if you dont do it, dont complain about needing other things instead. In RO hunters are not the stealth class you know from game xx, accept this. Here they maybe have more defense, more dmg, dunno, it can be balanced this way, no need to make it the same as in the games you play.

[Gideon_Slack]

This is Ro no any other game. NGD does not have to steal every aspect of other mmos like some ppl seem to think. You have the ability to use defense spells, if you dont do it, dont complain about needing other things instead. In RO hunters are not the stealth class you know from game xx, accept this. Here they maybe have more defense, more dmg, dunno, it can be balanced this way, no need to make it the same as in the games you play.

To me though, that's only half a stealth class. A class' identity includes both offensive and defensive capabilities; for example, the knight and his shield.

If the Hunter's defense is based solely on the Evasion tree, then that part of his identity is no different than a Marksman. And even the Marksman has subclass specific defensive abilities like Strategic Position in the Aiming Mastery Tree.

Why can't the Hunter also have subclass specific defense? (I really hope NGD will deliver this as we learn more about the update).

[doppelapfel]

To me though, that's only half a stealth class. A class' identity includes both offensive and defensive capabilities; for example, the knight and his shield.

If the Hunter's defense is based solely on the Evasion tree, then that part of his identity is no different than a Marksman. And even the Marksman has subclass specific defensive abilities like Strategic Position in the Aiming Mastery Tree.

Why can't the Hunter also have subclass specific defense? (I really hope NGD will deliver this as we learn more about the update).

Hunters abilities are pet taiming, scouting and camo. Guess you know that. Do we have to drop pets and scout, add more defense and make hunters like the stealth class you know from other games to satisfie you or what?

[Comp]

Sorry - but I think NGD has made a balance change to the hunters for the better. You can choose to configure to be super defensive, at the expense of offense. You can choose to use a pet at the expense of stealth...etc.

They've done a great job here at involving the hunter more in RvR with the implementation of Death Sentence (20% extra damage at close range) and there's one more skill that I saw...but I think they are re-working...so I won't steal their thunder - but it's gonna be cool.

[Gideon_Slack]

Sorry - but I think NGD has made a balance change to the hunters for the better. You can choose to configure to be super defensive, at the expense of offense. You can choose to use a pet at the expense of stealth...etc.

They've done a great job here at involving the hunter more in RvR with the implementation of Death Sentence (20% extra damage at close range) and there's one more skill that I saw...but I think they are re-working...so I won't steal their thunder - but it's gonna be cool.

I agree that a Hunter can configure his build in the ways you describe and be effective in war.

My point, however, has never been what is effective in terms of the math; it has been what is consistent with the role-play aspect of the class and the virtual world of Regnum (this is an MMORPG afterall). In my opinion, without defense based on stealth, the Hunter class will fail at this aspect of the game.

I hold out hope though that whatever else NGD has in store will overcome this problem.

(I also disagree that Death Sentence, as it currently stands, is a valuable spell, for reasons detailed here (http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?p=1111512#post1111512). I would like to be proved wrong on this point though. ;))

[Topogigio_BR]

DS is a great spell specially if he can be casted under camo, as i think he should.
In fact no reason why not, DS is inoffensive if just casted by the hunter, he alone can cast on 20 ppl and without some warriors it gets to no result, so let hunter cast it under camo and let ppl casted worried about an incoming warrior.

Hunters still have 7% speed above all classes, i think it should be put on 10%, but anyway is still possible to evade from a fight, not so easy as before, but still possible.

[Gideon_Slack]

DS is a great spell specially if he can be casted under camo, as i think he should.
In fact no reason why not, DS is inoffensive if just casted by the hunter, he alone can cast on 20 ppl and without some warriors it gets to no result, so let hunter cast it under camo and let ppl casted worried about an incoming warrior.

Hunters still have 7% speed above all classes, i think it should be put on 10%, but anyway is still possible to evade from a fight, not so easy as before, but still possible.

Casting debuffs on targets without breaking camo is an example of using stealth as defense in combat, though a poor one (the camo prevents you from being hit).

However, this might make Confuse overpowered again, if it could be cast without decloaking.

On the otherhand, if NGD does introduce a "reveal camo" spell, it might be balanced enough to be possible.

[linearguild]

DS is a great spell specially if he can be casted under camo, as i think he should.
In fact no reason why not, DS is inoffensive if just casted by the hunter, he alone can cast on 20 ppl and without some warriors it gets to no result, so let hunter cast it under camo and let ppl casted worried about an incoming warrior.

Except pet counts as melee, and hunter-in-your-face counts as melee, so both benefit from the new DS.

[tarashunter]

Hunter problem is maded by all the users who played an OP char not in the right way.
If were not the trolltard hunter that go around hunting for poor grinding people(then you say me go grind in the realm but i just told in other post why grinder are in trouble grinding in realm and i'm tired to repeat it),the nerf would never be so heavy for that class.
For me is a good things.
Then,cast DS under camo is not possible,because dead sentence does not direct dmg,but is a dangerous skill if a warrior is going to hit the enemy,and the enemy feel sure to kill that warrior(unknowing there is a camoed hunter that is going to cast DS).
Hunter trick class yes,but not from camo.
Buff under camo,yes(by the way is so nerfed at least let the cast acrobatic and evasive tactics first go out of camo).
As i said,acro+evasive,NOT escaipist and sotw.

[Comp]

Except pet counts as melee, and hunter-in-your-face counts as melee, so both benefit from the new DS.

You can see a hunter with pet coming...so just...walk away :P - You'll out run him

[-Kalid-]

I would like you all to see this.

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

i would like you all to see this.

overpowered!!! Nerf!!!!! :p

[LawZ]

Tell us how mana did you spend too mate...

That goes to everyone... When you all post numbers you should add 3 things:
1. dmg, 2. buffs/debuffs, 3. mana.

Regards

[ncvr]

One of the problems with the Hunter class in Regnum is that they get too many defensive buffs from the Evasion tree.

In most other games, the stealth class is far more squishy than the Regnum hunter. Entering combat for them is a very high risk thing, so they need the stealth escape skill.

My Hunter is currently set up like a stealth class from another game. My only points in Evasion are Mobility 4 and Low Profile 3 (though I agree Low Profile needs a nerf). With this build, I have to rely on speed instead of Acrobatic or Evasive Tactics for defense.

I play this way because I find it fun. If I have to go Acrobatic or Evasive for defense, then I'm afraid I'll lose half the identity of my class.

And for stealth escape skills, they obviously should not be at the same level as the ones that help set up an encounter. Most others game set them at just a fraction of the basic stealth skill -- risky, but enough to get away some portion of the time.
The main problem with the stealth class (hunters) in Regnum is that they have no hard counterclass. Barbs used to have that role, SM warjus were decent against hunters as well, but today no class truly has a major advantage against hunters - and if they did, they wouldn't be able to catch the hunter unless they had a very powerful reveal camo or something.

Right now, if we go by the scissors-paper-rock analogy, lets say skilled warlocks are rock, hunters are scissors and marksmen, knights and barbs are paper. Scissors beats paper and uses invisibility to hide from rock. But, whoops...rock also beats paper! And it doesn't really beat scissors, more of a 50/50 chance against scissors.

Another thing about stealth classes is that it is extremely difficult to balance them and define their role. You have to balance them based on their ability to attack from stealth. If you don't, they become too powerful. But if you do, they become boring and somewhat pointless during an extended fight, unless you give them a means to "restealth" midfight reliably and frequently.

[Gideon_Slack]

The main problem with the stealth class (hunters) in Regnum is that they have no hard counterclass. Barbs used to have that role, SM warjus were decent against hunters as well, but today no class truly has a major advantage against hunters - and if they did, they wouldn't be able to catch the hunter unless they had a very powerful reveal camo or something.

Right now, if we go by the scissors-paper-rock analogy, lets say skilled warlocks are rock, hunters are scissors and marksmen, knights and barbs are paper. Scissors beats paper and uses invisibility to hide from rock. But, whoops...rock also beats paper! And it doesn't really beat scissors, more of a 50/50 chance against scissors.

Another thing about stealth classes is that it is extremely difficult to balance them and define their role. You have to balance them based on their ability to attack from stealth. If you don't, they become too powerful. But if you do, they become boring and somewhat pointless during an extended fight, unless you give them a means to "restealth" midfight reliably and frequently.

Someone said they saw a "reveal" spell briefly on Amun in the Scouting tree, so there is the possibility that it will be hunter vs hunter in terms of the counterclass.

In terms of restealthing during combat, I looked into as many games as I could to see what they did. All of the ones I looked at allowed restealth in combat, either using camo, speed or both (these games were: WoW, Guild Wars, Runes of Magic, Lord of the Rings Online, and Warhammer Online).

Many other games though have a "combat" mode that allows special escape stealth skills to only be used at that point. Regnum doesn't have that, so the basic stealth skills have to do double duty. With speed out of the picture, and barring NGD introducing a new stealth skill, camo will have to be offensive and defensive. Currently, it is only offensive.

[veluchami]

Can Knight's pleeeeeeeeeeeease get some small healing skills?

Wrong thread, mate. The thread you are looking for is here (http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=52852&highlight=christmas) :D

[Gabburtjuh]

Except pet counts as melee, and hunter-in-your-face counts as melee, so both benefit from the new DS.

except the fact you cant have a pet under camo now.

[metsie]

New DS is scary, because it lets hunters get bonus too if they are close range (and other ranged classes too)

IMO it should work only for barbs/knights.

Kind of crazy when hunters can do 600-900 normals/ensnares/dual shots and 1.5-2k rep.shots :biggrin: (if they don't get resisted)

I know it's only few seconds that their buffs lasts, but it also takes only few seconds to kill somebody like that :p

Again they are getting camo+best dps, sniff.

"don't run alone" can't be only counter against that, there will be always situations where one have to run alone + it should not be only for hunters feature (running around alone and knowing that they have high high chance to kick ass)

[Gabburtjuh]

so it should get nerfed because hunters have 6 seconds of OPness for around 800 mana?

[linearguild]

except the fact you cant have a pet under camo now.

And what does that have to do with the effect of DS?

[Gabburtjuh]

And what does that have to do with the effect of DS?

that if the hunter has a pet ou should see him comming :biggrin:

[tjanex]

Even though pet dissapears in camo doesn''t matter to me petless ftw \o/. But there are now other advantages and also want to ask NGD something...

Question: What are you doing with the previous updates because many people didn't liked things but you just go to the next stap what do you do with the information we gave you or you just put that updates in even though we asked to change/remove things?

[Comp]

New DS is scary, because it lets hunters get bonus too if they are close range (and other ranged classes too)

IMO it should work only for barbs/knights.

Kind of crazy when hunters can do 600-900 normals/ensnares/dual shots and 1.5-2k rep.shots :biggrin: (if they don't get resisted)

I know it's only few seconds that their buffs lasts, but it also takes only few seconds to kill somebody like that :p

Again they are getting camo+best dps, sniff.

"don't run alone" can't be only counter against that, there will be always situations where one have to run alone + it should not be only for hunters feature (running around alone and knowing that they have high high chance to kick ass)

my "OP'ness" lasts 6 seconds and costs me:

This JUST the attack mind you - not protecting myself or debuffing the other person (outside of DS and Sudden Strike)

Death Sentence(5) => 170 mana
Sudden Strike(1) => 80 mana
Dirty Fighting (2) => 140 mana
Cold Blood (5) => 300 mana
Ensnare (5) => 160 mana

So that's 770 mana for 6 seconds worth of hits - and if ANYTHING gets evaded or resisted (which usually occurs) then lots of that mana is wasted. Now - mind you I have not used ambush, confuse, or anything else - including my own protection buffs.

After this 6 seconds is over...you know how hard I hit...

135 damage - and I have a NICE bow. I'm sure many other hunters hit alot lower than that.

Will hunter config this way - probably - NGD wants us to be more rogue like. I don't consider this to be OP when it only happens for 6 seconds.

[Comp]

Escapist + Sotw = easy camo while getting attacked...

This is sooo wrong on so many levels. NGD needs to address this and let evades and resists force camo to be canceled. We use camo as an offensive weapon, not a "get out of jail free card".

[e30G]

Hi Chilko, I may have missed it, but does Hit Chance also have an effect on Critical Chance? Or is Hit Chance limited to evasion? Thanks!

[Kyrottimus]

We use camo as an offensive weapon, not a "get out of jail free card".

Indeed. That's what everyone uses Low Profile for... :sifflote:

[Mikan]

Dear NGD,

I have a request before you continue with the balance update. Please have every member of your internal balance team (however small it is), read at least twenty pages of the Suggestions forum in both Spanish and English, and create a list of notes about every posting there.

Yes, I know, Somos pocos. But do you want this update done right, or not?

I can't help but notice that as the update goes on, you've ignored almost every single suggestion made... and while you can say that we don't know anything about balance, believe it or not at least half of the users here use Linux (higher average tech level), many of us are programmers and developers on large projects, some of them including games, in some cases even commercial ones. You guys seem to have this view that we don't know what we're talking about most of the time, while to us it seems to be quite the other way around, with us having a big "WTF?" over our heads half the time.

The problem is, we are the ones who have to play the game at the end of the day. I think that we shouldn't have to be WTF'ing constantly while doing so, forgive my lack of professional terms on the matter. But I do hope that you get the point I am trying to make. :)

This update so far, while having some good points, has also had far too much of this.

Kind regards.

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

Dear NGD,

I have a request before you continue with the balance update. Please have every member of your internal balance team (however small it is), read at least twenty pages of the Suggestions forum in both Spanish and English, and create a list of notes about every posting there.

Yes, I know, Somos pocos. But do you want this update done right, or not?

I can't help but notice that as the update goes on, you've ignored almost every single suggestion made... and while you can say that we don't know anything about balance, believe it or not at least half of the users here use Linux (higher average tech level), many of us are programmers and developers on large projects, some of them including games, in some cases even commercial ones. You guys seem to have this view that we don't know what we're talking about most of the time, while to us it seems to be quite the other way around, with us having a big "WTF?" over our heads half the time.

The problem is, we are the ones who have to play the game at the end of the day. I think that we shouldn't have to be WTF'ing constantly while doing so, forgive my lack of professional terms on the matter. But I do hope that you get the point I am trying to make. :)

This update so far, while having some good points, has also had far too much of this.

Kind regards.

thats what ive been saying all long. we pay THEIR bills. even if they dont agree, they are there to make the game how WE want. the customer is always right, you are hear to make US happy, if they dont, they lose customers, they lose money.

[-Kalid-]

thats what ive been saying all long. we pay THEIR bills. even if they dont agree, they are there to make the game how WE want. the customer is always right, you are hear to make US happy, if they dont, they lose customers, they lose money.

Now we are talking about business. :theking:

[Hally]

Well ... I think that we do not HAVE to pay. We do not HAVE to play. We do not have to keep playing if we do not agree with the new update...
For sure NGD is doing its best to keep its customers, and to make most of us happy. I appreciate that they made public the preparation of the update, and I think we can be rather confident on the fact that they take into account at least some of our thoughts here. And if they do not, they may have some good resons for, that we may ignore...

Sorry for this useless post, but I wish to say that I cannot wait for the new update to come ! You are doing great job guys !
At least I am one the customers that they will keep :beerchug:

[Mikan]

Guys, I didn't mean it exactly in that way, please don't turn my words into evil. I try to be there for everyone, including NGD. :)

[Raindance]

so it should get nerfed because hunters have 6 seconds of OPness for around 800 mana?

If a Hunter comes out of Camouflage right behind you, you'll be dead in 4 seconds. Also, every class has mana problems, it's called you use your mana wisely and think about what spells to use.

There's a big imbalance with the Archer class, especially the Hunter subclass. If you give them a good spell, they'll be too strong. Nerf the other spell, they'll be the worst class. Hunters need a bigger rebalance fix than any other class right now.

In my opinion, since Hunters are the defensive class they should have more spells to help other allies. But of course nowadays everyone only thinks about themselves and their big damage. It's RvR, time to help your allies and work with them and not only think about yourselves. I believe NGD should look into this, specially for the Hunter class.

[Nhuzgul]

If a Hunter comes out of Camouflage right behind you, you'll be dead in 4 seconds. Also, every class has mana problems, it's called you use your mana wisely and think about what spells to use.

There's a big imbalance with the Archer class, especially the Hunter subclass. If you give them a good spell, they'll be too strong. Nerf the other spell, they'll be the worst class. Hunters need a bigger rebalance fix than any other class right now.

In my opinion, since Hunters are the defensive class they should have more spells to help other allies. But of course nowadays everyone only thinks about themselves and their big damage. It's RvR, time to help your allies and work with them and not only think about yourselves. I believe NGD should look into this, specially for the Hunter class.

+1billion!!!!!!!

[tjanex]

+1 :thumb_up:

[Aasiora-Leif]

+1 xD

It doesn't matter the mana cost. Just because you sacrifice 800 mana doesn't mean you have a right to be OP.

[tjanex]

I really want this supporting function :)

[bigjim]

I can handle if a hunter is only OP for 6 secs with all the mana and spells they have to expend. It will take more skill to play the class than currently, and you can "usually" stay alive for more than 6 seconds.

Not many people are taking resists/evades into account either... along with hp being increased.....

:metal:

[_Enio_]

back to balance discussion maybe?

NGD im interested why exactly we need to have that amount of base resists in this game. Its hilarious sometimes how many you get and you have no real way to work against it..

[Gideon_Slack]

Escapist + Sotw = easy camo while getting attacked...

This is sooo wrong on so many levels. NGD needs to address this and let evades and resists force camo to be canceled. We use camo as an offensive weapon, not a "get out of jail free card".

If the Hunter is going to be more than "half" a stealth class, then it needs defensive, as well as offensive stealth abilities.

Speed used to be the defensive stealth ability. With that gone, that leaves only camo.

Escapist +SotW to get a defensive camo is not the way go, however. Hopefully NGD comes through with a balanced defensive stealth ability.

[Kyrottimus]

back to balance discussion maybe?

NGD im interested why exactly we need to have that amount of base resists in this game. Its hilarious sometimes how many you get and you have no real way to work against it..

All the more reason we need to have a Spell Focus value in our character window, so we can see an effectual shift in the formula based in different gear and builds.

We can build towards it with more repeatable results. But currently, resists are far too frequent and haphazard--no rhyme or reason to how they work or when.

[Kittypretty]

I had never even thought of testing camo and escapist camo. Not cause it hadnt occured to me..but for the fact it did, it was the first thing that came to mind simply because it was a rampant abuse that was going on when old sotw was being spammed..so i never even dreamed theyd even allow such again.

[ncvr]

Also, every class has mana problems, it's called you use your mana wisely and think about what spells to use.
On my warlock, SS is a pretty constant supply of mana. Even without SS, I rarely run out of mana. On my hunter, I can kill someone before losing more than 75% of my mana. Even as a knight, you can do pretty well using a small amount of mana.

But how do you use your mana wisely? Dying? If I don't buff on my barb, I die fast and I do around 500 normals, which isn't gonna kill anybody. If I do, I use up over half of my mana. On my marks, I can normal people to death (still using half my mana in a few minutes), but it's fucking boring as hell. Do you enjoy it? Do you think marksmen should be there to do nothing more than stand on a fort wall and shoot normals at people? Because I, and I'm pretty sure most marksmen, don't. Mana usage in Regnum for about half the classes is broken. CCs are broken. Resists and evades are broken.

[e30G]

Chilko can we move into a less CC-centric and DPS dependent gameplay and increase the effects of performance debuffs (like -HC, -AS, -CS, -ststs)?

That should add more tactics to the game too.

[Ulti19]

Resists and evades seem to be as random as always. How about removing this feature alltogether to eliminate luck anamolies from the game completely? A barb that would go in for a sc5 would know he will land the sc5. Thus, making grinding more enjoyable and a knights block nice and unique (though still random ironically xD Perhaps change the way blocking would work too, maybe a spell that guarentees blocks for a time or something but no chance).

Sometimes a lv 22, for example, will resist and evade 4 hits in a row from a lv 50, this makes no sense lol. This would change gameplay alot, in order to resist a sultar for example, you would have to skill defensive stance or um. Mages and archers would have to avoid it by not bunching up. Or when barbs come out to ae at door, the only people standing would be the ones who skilled for countering knocks, making choosing skills more valuable. But there would never be anymore of those moments where luck completely trashes you. More skill would determine fights this way and that's what I'd prefer. I think the game would be alot funner with this chance element gone from it. There would be no more "Gah!! you resisted 3 attacks, 2 kicks, my ms, 1 feint!" etc.

Right now this game is like Smash Brothers for the Nintendo, in the sense that players evade and resist chance are similar to outcomes with the items that spawn in smash bros levels. One player may get a star, one may get a hammer or some useless item. And the player who gets lucky nabbing items closer to him/her usually wins. Taking away the option for items to spawn makes the fight purely skill based (Though ironically less fun in that crazy game. Love it when a little bombomb just falls out of nowhere and ko's my opponentxD). Hope someone understands that analogy ^^ If you never played the game, disregard that last bit lol.

[Immune]

Resists and evades seem to be as random as always. How about removing this feature alltogether to eliminate luck anamolies from the game completely?..... I think the game would be alot funner with this chance element gone from it.

Yessssssssss +1, then increase the impact of powers that affect spell resistance and evasion; You will start to really see some variety in setups by giving more abilities greater usefulness.

[_Enio_]

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5929/screenshot2010081708583.jpg
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/295/screenshot2010081709143.jpg

Seriously?

11 of 18 knock/stun resisted in 2nd screen.. wtf.

[Ulti19]

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5929/screenshot2010081708583.jpg
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/295/screenshot2010081709143.jpg

Seriously?

Wow! Hahaha. More proof for what I would like to see change lol. "Enio you pt" :P xD

[Gabburtjuh]

trelle save can be camped so easy >.>
http://imgur.com/Fp4Bx
http://imgur.com/SHnsNl
http://imgur.com/UqrAQ
http://imgur.com/ToDMv

[tjanex]

Every safe can be camped if you do it well :P

[Topogigio_BR]

Chilko can we move into a less CC-centric and DPS dependent gameplay and increase the effects of performance debuffs (like -HC, -AS, -CS, -ststs)?

That should add more tactics to the game too.

I would really like this. +1

[Mikan]

On an unrelated note, 1 Constitution point should equal 25 HP and one Intelligence point should equal 10 mana for all classes.

[time-to-die]

Every safe can be camped if you do it well :P

I agree with that

[Kyrottimus]

Every safe can be camped if you do it well :P

But not every save has a bottle-neck that forces those who are saved there to run down a corridor (running the gauntlet) and face archers' fire, whom they cannot immediately attack if they are warriors.

This problem is very obvious to all but the tactically-blind. Since warriors don't have range, we have to chase down archers. Kinda hard when they are standing on a 10m high cliff face which requires us to have to run down a ravine to find a way up, all the while they whittling away at us with ranged attacks.

This currently would be the only save with that feature. So no, no other save would have this level of "campability". Every other save, if camped, is on the level, meaning a warrior can run in any direction to get away from/get to where he wants to go with a chance of escape OR tacticaly out-maneuvering the archer.

[-Kalid-]

Even marksman can use escaplit + Sotw so why nerf hunter? NERF MARKSMAN!! :D

[doppelapfel]

Even marksman can use escaplit + Sotw so why nerf hunter? NERF MARKSMAN!! :D

Those spells were nerfed/changed for both classes, whats your point?

[Arafails]

Can't see if anyone's noticed this yet, but....

I noticed something weird with spell damage on hard and very hard mobs (on Amun), so I got out my lowest damage per hit two handed weapon, discarded all my damage buffs to rule them out (this doesn't seem to have had any abnormal effect) and got this....

30530

Only seems to happen on Hard and Very Hard mobs (I tested on ignean orc marauders and ignean orc warriors), don't know if there's a similar effect on players.

(On the other hand marshall reflexes gives me so many crits now that I can easily kill the same mob in three hits).

[bois]

But not every save has a bottle-neck that forces those who are saved there to run down a corridor (running the gauntlet) and face archers' fire, whom they cannot immediately attack if they are warriors.

This problem is very obvious to all but the tactically-blind. Since warriors don't have range, we have to chase down archers. Kinda hard when they are standing on a 10m high cliff face which requires us to have to run down a ravine to find a way up, all the while they whittling away at us with ranged attacks.

This currently would be the only save with that feature. So no, no other save would have this level of "campability". Every other save, if camped, is on the level, meaning a warrior can run in any direction to get away from/get to where he wants to go with a chance of escape OR tacticaly out-maneuvering the archer.

Hence I suggested earlier some cover in the form of rocks / trees (in ravine) on either exit that can give warriors a way to approach without damage.

Art.

[Mikan]

Can't see if anyone's noticed this yet, but....

I noticed something weird with spell damage on hard and very hard mobs (on Amun), so I got out my lowest damage per hit two handed weapon, discarded all my damage buffs to rule them out (this doesn't seem to have had any abnormal effect) and got this....

30530

Only seems to happen on Hard and Very Hard mobs (I tested on ignean orc marauders and ignean orc warriors), don't know if there's a similar effect on players.

(On the other hand marshall reflexes gives me so many crits now that I can easily kill the same mob in three hits).
Mob difficulty seems to work on an armor system. If you land Protection debuffs on hard mobs, they become much easier.

[Mehran]

:beerchug: haha i actually like this, although the part about crits. You tyipically see some1 hitting 200s then critting 450-500s, and then you say make the crits bigger? Scary part: normals will be high but crits 3times more. Unless it's meant to do more amounts of crits but less dmg. Either then this complaint I like the new upgrade ... i guess :bruja:






[(Passive lv.45 hunt Horus Alsius)]

[Arafails]

Mob difficulty seems to work on an armor system. If you land Protection debuffs on hard mobs, they become much easier.
...which is irrelevant to the issue that normal hits are doing more damage than +100% and greater damage spells....

[Mehran]

Can't see if anyone's noticed this yet, but....

I noticed something weird with spell damage on hard and very hard mobs (on Amun), so I got out my lowest damage per hit two handed weapon, discarded all my damage buffs to rule them out (this doesn't seem to have had any abnormal effect) and got this....

30530

Only seems to happen on Hard and Very Hard mobs (I tested on ignean orc marauders and ignean orc warriors), don't know if there's a similar effect on players.

(On the other hand marshall reflexes gives me so many crits now that I can easily kill the same mob in three hits).

thts so fking hilarious tht i cant even wait to play again, it's moments like this tht make us laugh of no playing, i espically like the part how like charge is wep. dmg based :bruja:

[Mehran]

Nahhhhh.... all i can say about this new game (RO) and the players is just this....: I hope you all are ready to try a week of setup testing after these changes: :sifflote: