Per class population

[chilko]

Hello everyone

Many of you requested this info.
Here you have a population distribution of active 40+ level characters in RA and Horus

Marksman: 11,31%
Knight: 13,52%
Warlock: 15,24%
Barbarian: 16,80%
Hunter: 21,14%
Conjurer: 21,99%

this are my personal feelings (not NGD's)

Marksmans: Boring to play
Knight: Too hard to level and very low damage
Warlock: OK (OP)
Barbarian: OK (OP but whining)
Hunter: Super OP and too versatile
Conjurer: Super OP, too versatile and too easy to level (because of broken summons and many ways to regen)

please take into account that this is before the update. We have tackled the grinding of knights for example and we are trying to put a limit on hunter's versatility

feel free to post your ideas about this and short/small suggestions 1 per class... please don't post if you don't follow this pattern

[chandragupta]

Can we get a split between Ra and Horus figures please.

[Gideon_Slack]

Here are the percentages by overall class:

Archer: 32.45%

Warrior: 30.32%

Mage: 37.23%

(Hope this is okay to post).

EDIT: Even distribution of all subclasses would be 16.7% each.

[metsie]

If we could see numbers about activity of ever class(if it's possible), I think numbers would be different. But anyway nice to see this list :) looks like marksman are rare.

marksman are static because of mana issues/need to stay still while shooting. So maybe bring back ability to move and shoot for marksmen class and see how it works.

warlocks are balancing between power and fragility, GCD update makes them weaker so maybe add some new area that explodes enemy corpses or some summoning skills (like necromancers in some games).

conjurers are super easy to grind with zarkit, but with full support setup it is harder + less exp, so maybe do something that makes supporting more rewarding.

:)

[Kyrottimus]

Having played every class, this is how I rate them as the most frustrating to the least frustrating to play (in war):

In a scale--
Most Frustrating

Barbarian: Reason -- Mana-hungry. CC'd to the point of unplayability. Heavily targeted. Resists/Evades making the risks of charging almost not worth it and destroys fun.
Knight: Reason -- Too little damage, slow, blocking unreliable and unpredictable.
Conjurer: Reason -- Hard to target allies, heavily targeted. Plusses, allied heals/mana/buffs NEVER get resisted.
Marksman: Reason -- Not versatile enough, but good mix of range and damage. Still, too mana-hungry.
Hunter: Reason -- SUPER OP
Warlock: Reason -- SUPER OP

Least Frustrating

[_Enio_]

I wouldnt consider Marksman boring, it greatly differs on your playstyle there.

The following 2 main extremes:

Heavy CC:
You can configure it to be very versatile and offer a good amount of support throught single target CCs while maintaining good (ranged) defense. High range there will be used very situational.

Sniping:
On another hand you can skill for a maximum ranged Sniper with limited cc capabilities and less defense, this is more boring to play. You use your points to max out damage and range and you have not much left over what allows you the kind of dynamic interaction i consider as much fun.

Theres much tradeoffs you can do from one to another but these 2 ways id consider the 2 major playstyles you see on marks.

For both ways the biggest drawback is the mana consumption in my opinion.



Another note:
Marks now lost all of his class defining special abilities beside the superior range.

DS was the last real group support no other class could give. The ranged areas are generally poor and the only one with cc effect has a very weak one (which still have to be tried out with Amun version in war though). The DS replacement we get doesnt change anything about this. Another damage boost spell, not adding to the fun.

Give us something special, something tactical, something fun! :)

[Pakos]

now im wondering how many of them are active and higher lvl

[theotherhiveking]

Hello everyone
[COLOR=Red]Marksmans: Boring to play
Knight: Too hard to level and very low damage
Warlock: OK (OP)
Barbarian: OK (OP but whining)
Hunter: Super OP and too versatile
Conjurer: Super OP, too versatile and too easy to level (because of broken summons and many ways to regen)


feel free to post your ideas about this and short/small suggestions 1 per class... please don't post if you don't follow this pattern

RA:
Marksmans: Too static gameplay.

Knight: Each mob lasts hours plus low damage and crappy defenses.

Warlock: OK

Barbarian: Numerically ok, gameplay is horrible, almost no attack spells for a offensive class, just tons of buffs and useless debuffs with ridiculous costs or even invocation times, i would make their trees more marksman like, with DoT, fixed damages, dizzies. Anything that isnt a debuff that nobody would cast or does weapon damage, or yet another buff. They do not to be more powerful, they just to rely less on buffs and have more active skills that actually kill stuff and not empower normal hits even more.

Hunter: Op, because of tech problems, speed, pet damage, confuse and insane defenses for pvp.
Conjurer: OP, too versatile and too easy to everything.

[theotherhiveking]

now im wondering how many of them are active and higher lvl
Here you have a population distribution of active 40+ level characters in RA and Horus

All of them.

[von1958]

the archer class needs to be able to move and shoot . but that will make the hunters way overpowered what needs to happen to the hunter class is the whole pet tree needs replaced with something more towards defensive help for the group

[Seher]

Haha nice thread

Hello everyone

Many of you requested this info.
Here you have a population distribution of active 40+ level characters in RA and Horus

Marksman: 11,31%
Knight: 13,52%
Warlock: 15,24%
Barbarian: 16,80%
Hunter: 21,14%
Conjurer: 21,99%

Huge amount of conjurers, but I guess just half of them is actually healing... And there might be many inactive characters, as many players want to have a conju, for supporting friends and stuff, but don't go to war, don't know... My conju was like that for quite a long time.

this are my personal feelings (not NGD's)

Marksmans: Boring to play

Yeah! Mostly because of the "(ranged) normal hits issue"...

Barbarian: OK (OP but whining)

Hehe yeah... Might just feel like that as a barbarian can pick someone and kill him, no matter what happens (except for beetles), but... that's OP, isn't it? ;P

I'm levelling a barbarian (or at least trying it), as I like the action and kamikaze style, most whiners just dislike dying, I guess...

Hunter: Super OP and too versatile

Short bow should be hunter only, long bow marksman only, imo... You won't change very much here without huge conceptual changes.

And handling pets still needs vast improvements to make pets actually useful in fort wars...
Additionally: A pet is easy to control when the player is next to it, so the hunter should be at least a bit close-range. That would solve your "too many ranged classes" problem as well, but I'm afraid many hunters wouldn't like such a change :P
Making short bows hunter only would be a nice compromise, though.

Conjurer: Super OP, too versatile and too easy to level (because of broken summons and many ways to regen)

Too versatile? Maybe, as they can deal damage as well.
But just focusing on healing... There are 4 useful trees, and 4 can be maxed on 50. Versatile? Good joke. (Ok, mental is useful, too, but still, that's 4 out of 5 then...)
To me it seems to be the best here to replace the damage dealing trees with something actually useful for healing - killing two birds with one stone.
Summons - quite easy to replace, some other healing and buffing stuff. Maybe Healing tree to heal, this new tree to prevent damage.

But staff mastery? Maybe staff mastery should become another mental tree, but close range, (+ bonuses to some things, better casting, faster casting, less cooldown, ...) and mental stays ranged only I mean, staff mastery is boring, seriously now, and far too easy. ;P

Oh, and (current) mental is enough for solo levelling, really. Just get rid of this summon stuff, it's just annoying :P


edit: Just realized... "many ways to regen", wtf?! Does this mean you'd rather cut down constant levelling for conjus instead of just making other classes rest less? :/
I really don't get why you still scare new players away by making them rest and wait for half of their playing time... :/ (And that's what prevents me from levelling a barb, by the way...)

[Comp]

I think the changes applied to Amun will make hunters more difficult to play and more fun to play. NGD does need to re-think the whole pet discipline though - there are still ways to make them just as OP as they are on Live - and this needs to be balanced.

[Miraculix]

I've played almost exclusively marksman and hunter, so please take my comments for the other 4 classes lightly.

Hunter: Very interesting class to play. With the upcoming balance update, I believe you are getting very close to balancing it in relation with the other classes. Has the upper hand in almost all 1v1 situations due to the element of surprise - and rightly so. This is the defining characteristic of the class, forget the ranger archetype nonsense imo. Rogue/assassin is what this class is all about, so focus on making that work in balance. Amun is on the right track right now I believe, good job.

Marksman: Marksmen can make difference by superior damage from range, but if you play that way, it's boring. My suggestion: Give marksmen what Terror is for warlocks. Marksmen need a spell that will define the class and almost make you want to play it for just that spell, that makes its mark in the battle - like terror is for warlocks. I think they need good area CC's and good area damages. They have enough, maybe even too many, single target spells.
For mana I think they are ok if you control yourself. They don't need a mana regeneration spell, they just need some help controlling themselves. It's hard to control your mana when you can have 5 different spells that do pretty much the same thing (ethereal, arcanna, serpent, lethal, etc etc - all single target damage spells). So when they pick a target, they can easily burn all their mana in 5 seconds. If they play with normal hits setup, they will burn their mana because of recharged arrows and TWO buffs for attack speed (rapid shot, hawks gaze) doing the same thing - single target damage. Maybe if they had to choose between that and some great area spells they would not have such a problem controlling their mana.

Conjurer - The healer class of the game getting the best summons/pets was my first WTF moment in RO, followed by conjurers having the highest DPS in the game (before SM got "nerfed"). The summon probably has to go as a tree altogether. Maybe replace it with a "support" summon, giving heals and/or mana or something.

Warlock - Too dependant on one spell - Terror. Take that away, half the locks will stop playing. Give it too much power, and it will destroy battles (as it does now). They need more things to do in the battlefield than be the ones that deliver the opener and then use everything they have to try and stay alive. 1v1 is another story, there they have a great advantage over most classes & situations.

Barbarians - I actually think this class is ok, from an archer's point of view.

Knights - This is probably THE most broken class in regnum. A nightmare to grind, and when you get to 50 you are "that guy" in war. Noone really knows what you do exactly that their barbs cannot do better, and the support you provide takes up space from conjurer support. More CC is definitely needed on the knight (single target CC that is)

Again, like I said, I play only archers. Please don't kill me for my comments :p

[Pakos]

Here you have a population distribution of active 40+ level characters in RA and Horus

All of them.

rofl gonna hide now, :bruja:
shouldnt write when i should be sleeping -.-

[Gideon_Slack]

My comments are solely directed at the Hunter as a stealth class. Every MMO has one, so its important Regnum has one, and that it is viable and not over-powered. To be viable, a stealth class must have both offensive and defensive stealth abilities.

Previously, speed was the defensive stealth ability. Since speed is being removed, NGD has to add a new defensive stealth ability, or else the Hunter as a stealth class will be crippled. People who play stealth classes in other MMO's will realize this if they try Regnum.

My suggestion: Add a short, insta-cast camo spell with a speed bonus at a low level in the Scouting tree.

It could look something like this:

0 cast time
10 second duration
long cooldown
large speed bonus: +30% or more
cannot be broken by any "reveal camo" spell
cannot attack until it wears off

This is generally how defensive stealth abilities work in other games: short spells that remove the caster quickly from the situation.

At the same time, the original camo should be moved farther up the Scouting tree, perhaps to Level 17. (Low level hunters could still use camo with the new camo spell, which obviously would work offensively too).

Speed was also part of the offensive stealth, so the old Camo should be modified to compensate for its loss. My suggestions here:

Cooldown at level 5 = Duration (90 seconds). This would allow Scouting specialized Hunters to continue to conduct covert reconnaissance.
Speed malus - should be reduced until it is 0% at level 5, in keeping with the Hunter's need to conduct covert reconnaissance.
Can be broken by "reveal camo"
Long cast time

Also in my opinion, the damage debuffs that are being added to the Scouting tree should be limited or removed, as they seem to undermine the tree's coherence.

[Arafails]

It's my considered opinion, after playing a barbarian almost exclusively for a long time before branching out into mage classes also, that while barbarians are remarkably overpowered once they reach a target, in ‘large’ scale battle the possibility of doing so is somewhat determined by the ranged players on the opposing side – to the point that with the exception of awesome gear and insanely specific and three quarters useless builds the OPness of the subclass is completely nullified and then over-killed. This is why we whine.
I think this will change drastically very soon. Very soon, everyone else will be whining again.

[Mr_Egg]

Conjurer: 21,99%

this are my personal feelings (not NGD's)
...

Conjurer: Super OP, too versatile and too easy to level (because of broken summons and many ways to regen)

Bear in mind that most conjurers are only used at the bosses. I mean, you can be in the warzone 24/7, at every war, and still, when it's Vesper/Evendim time, there's suddenly conjs there that you've never seen before, because they're the alts of everyone else.
(EDIT: I'm talking Syrtis/Horus.... may be different elsewhere)

Yes, easy to grind (so most career grinders are conjs too), but in terms of support? Not so OP. High mana costs, heal cooldowns are a bit too high... even with ambitious (5) constantly on cd, not enough mana to support everyone (mostly because they all expect you to give them mana too).

See my post in the "We are not nerfing support conjurers" thread (http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?p=1094283#post1094283) for the rest of what I'd say if I hadn't already said it :sifflote:

I'll copy this bit though, because I still stand by it:



In terms of changes? Here's what I would suggest:


Make the staff mastery magnification spells non-stackable (although then they would need to go up in increments, so fire does 5/10/15/20/25, ice does 7/14/21/28/35, lightning does 10/20/30/40/50), because this straight away reduces the maximum damage from normals.
Switch mana communion with metabolic control in the mana tree and make it an area spell (instead of an aura), so say, mana cost goes up like 300/400/500/600/700, and everyone within radius 10 (maybe?) receives 100/150/200/250/300 mana. Numbers might need reworking, but they're only there as an example.
Reduce the range of summons (zarkits) to 20
Like Ise said, don't automatically put the conjurer into attack mode after every spell (small issue, but it is a bit weird)
Increase range of heal ally to 25 :sifflote:
MORE EXPERIENCE FROM GRINDING AS A SUPPORT CONJURER! (maybe double the current amount)


From what I've seen though, maybe it's going in the right direction...

[_Enio_]

Very soon, everyone else will be whining again.


Yes.

The key problem on all the kiting and dying in war is, from what i experienced, that you basically are helpless while approaching your target and since you got UM the only way to deal with you is to take you out fast.

Instead of giving Melee more options to dodge heavy fire or heavy cc they insanely changed the speed they have to get to the target while keeping their CC immunity up. I would have preferred a mix of this with a shorter UM but a new tool spell allowing to have impact on such situations.

Melee with CC immunity hitting on you while having more speed of course will produce frustration on the class that cannot do anything against it.


Im very very curious how this works out on war where we can support eachother.

[veluchami]

Im very very curious how this works out on war where we can support eachother.

Playing barbarian is most fun when there is a good amount of warriors on either side. But by virtue the game design having 2/3 of all players ranged, warriors are suffering. Horus fights as a barb can get frustrating in forts.
Consider this scenario when you take a fort,
First, the rangers keep hitting each other from range for like 10minutes. If you step out you are mince meat. So you stay in waiting for the fight to come to the door.
But the opposing team decimates you rangers on wall before moving to the door for the kill. This means 2/3 of your team is dead even before you can start fighting. So when you step out to fight, the rest of the players from the opposing team have come back from save, and you are targeted. With lesser number of players you invariably loose the battles. Some of the rare good battles are when there is a GC and the door is down, and both the teams have equal number of players. This is when there is a lot of opportunity for both ranged and the warriors to play.

In case of attacking a fort, its the same case, you cant get near the wall unless the rangers on the wall are neutralized by your rangers. Which reduces your role as just a door basher. Result is, as a warrior the battle is decided even before you start fighting.

Speaking of which, just gave me an Idea. Ding !
Why dont NGD just remove the concept door bashing? Whenever a fort is captured you get a GC with open door. The GC has a decent HP and normal attacks, which can be upgraded to the current level GC with areas and higher hp. The GC cannot be just chipped at from range. You have to come close range to kill the GC.

This way, the warriors get to play right from the beginning of the fort capture. This also prevents the attacking team from leaving the fort after capture and go to the save to camp it. The attackers need more warriors to kill the GC. The defenders need more warriors to protect the GC and their own rangers/conjus from the defenders. Redesign the fort structure so that there is a pedestal in the center where the GC stands. The defending rangers stand on the parapet or on the pedestal with the GC to target the attackers. The attackers must coordinate and kill the defenders before being able to kill the GC. Just make the forts larger bigger than castles, in turn turning it into a huge PvP arena.
Basically envision the fort as a huge arena with an aztec temple (pedestal) at the center. The current towers are seriously messy and too small for group tactical battles.

[_Enio_]

....

Yes veluchami, i experience the same on my barb.


I just fear the part of experiencing frustration has now partly shifted to archers as they have no way to counter a faster class with immunity to CC. I would have preferred a way that puts the balance into the abilities the classes have to counter eachother.

This has to be tested though, it might aswell end up that heavy slowdowns will be skilled evrywhere and barbs end up the same as where they been before in many matchups.

The core problem from my perspective, the lack of interaction abilities for melee while being kited, hasnt changed in any way by this updates. Instead ngd attempts to remove the so bad kiting. Thats a bad idea as kiting is a core theme in melee vs range design. It has to be balanced, not to be taken out.

[veluchami]

This has to be tested though, it might aswell end up that heavy slowdowns will be skilled evrywhere and barbs end up the same as where they been before in many matchups.
.

I would just as well stop playing marks, I dont want to spend all my power points in tricks to try slow down the barbs and hit like a pussy. I chose to play marks for a reason. As it is, I am having a shortage of power points in Amun.

[Shwish]

i dont find the marksman class boring at all. many people just chose a boring playstyle but thats for the player to decide

[tjanex]

I like marksman it's hard to get one lvl 50 but if you have one the efford was worth it :)

[linearguild]

Conjurer: 21,99%

Too bad there's no way to tell how many of these are boss drop campers. For sure you don't see any realm in Horus with 1 conjurer for every 5 people in their war group. But call for Vesper time or Evendim time and suddenly there's 3-4 conjurers for every 5 people.

Conjurers aren't so OP in war, they have good defenses but they have to deal with the constant demands of support while being favored targets. However they are OP at boss kills with their aura leeching. I hope you're not concluding that lots of people play conjurers in general, when it's more like lots of people have conjurers that they never bring to war, only to boss drop camping.

How do you define activity? Does total playing time count or is it just about logging in within some time period?

[AntibioTsu]

Too bad there's no way to tell how many of these are boss drop campers. For sure you don't see any realm in Horus with 1 conjurer for every 5 people in their war group. But call for Vesper time or Evendim time and suddenly there's 3-4 conjurers for every 5 people.

Conjurers aren't so OP in war, they have good defenses but they have to deal with the constant demands of support while being favored targets. However they are OP at boss kills with their aura leeching. I hope you're not concluding that lots of people play conjurers in general, when it's more like lots of people have conjurers that they never bring to war, only to boss drop camping.

How do you define activity? Does total playing time count or is it just about logging in within some time period?

+1, what Xia said.

[Arafails]

Hmm, can we see these figures adjusted for RP gain? I figure it'll come out something like

Hunters: 90%
Warlocks: 5%
Conjurers: 3%
Barbarians: 1%
Marksmen: 0.6%
Knights: 0.4%

[Mattdoesrock]

CURRENTLY ON LIVE SERVERS: (In no particular order.)

Hunters: Waaay OP. Hunters have the tools to be hugely diverse, with a massive variety in specialisations. But do they diverisify? Hell no! 99% of all Hunters use the same god like set up - that affords them EVERYTHING, while losing NOTHING. With a few clicks you can win any encounter... And if not, they you need never see your enemy again as you'll be gone in the blink of an eye.

Marksmen: Can still be fun to play. However... It's not fun in the traditional Marksman way. Having fun with a Marks is just like playing a petless Hunter; but with more options. Personally, the only fun I get out of a Marks now is a high CC build with burst damage; usually from a Shortbow. Remember what Marksmen were like Pre-1.0.8? Jesus christ... Now THAT was fucking fun!! Marks were FEARED! We were lethal on our own, even more so when in a group. Sure it was OP; but fuck me sideways I enjoyed it. Sure they needed a nerf - DS / Strat Pos etc. But they got nerfed in totally the wrong way... Like people have said, Sniping on a Marks is boring, with not much end result. But having fun with them (in my opinion) means playing like a "Hunter" (sorry for the generalisation) which isn't right. - Similar problems as a Barb / Knight has. Fun is limited by their crazy Mana hunger.

Knights: So much potential... But all wasted. People are saying Knight damage is too low; not at all. On my Knight I have a total of 3 points in offence, for Forceful Blow 4. I don't use any Magni's past 1 - and I still do great dmg. And no, my hammer is only special. So personally, I think the damage is fine - I mean have you seen the 800+ SC's from some Knarbs? I mean c'mon, that shit is stupid. On regards to tanking... What tanking? The only way a Knight can "tank" Is Army of One, which, in the middle of a group of players, is as usual as a chocolate fire guard. You'll be CC'ed and drained of mana faster than you can say RP. Failing that? They wont target you - Army of One and 500 mana wasted. Mana issues aren't too much of a problem IMO, if some key buffs were a longer duration, that would be great. Speaking of, Knights desperatly need ACROBATIC. Desperatly. HOWEVER, I would ONLY support the ability to Knights to properly tank once their ability to do such insane SC's is gone. Also Knights need small heal's and dispells. I would *kill* for those. As it is now, nearly all Knights are "Knarbs" (Knight-Barbs) and skill for offence; this needs to be rectified. (IMO!) They're not frustrating to play - but I find it's annoying that there's pretty much nothing you can do that a Barb cannot do, if not better.

Barbarians: Not half as bad as all the stupid whiners say they are. I'm not sure how much I agree with the changes proposed on Amun, but currently they're great - BUT, they are limited by attack cycle / GCD bugs that stop them from attacking for like... 3 seconds? Whatever Znurre's vid found out. With this gone, it'd be a great improvement. Also, once NGD finally finally finally fix being able to hit a target... As far as balance goes, they're pretty good, except for their Mana hunger, lack of speed and their "all or nothing" weakness to CC. Without Madness you're dead. Period. With it, your enemy will just run away, and if they out last it, you're dead again. Enio has spoken alot about this, and he's right on the money. More frustrating to play than Knights - but a shit ton more useful.

Warlocks: Not much to say here. Easy to play (tough to truely master), fun to play, high risk, high reward. Apart from having way too much CS on the live servers, Warlock's themselves are pretty perfect... If only every class could be as equally powerfull... My only problem is the god damn stacking on Terror (and all knocks for that matter) I mean for the love of god... remove that shit. No one cares about an "elogant" solution - we just want it gone.

Conjurers: INSANELY frustrating to play because of their STUPID MANA HUNGER. I mean seriously, I burn through mana on my Conju's like there's no mañana, and it's not like I'm throwing it around willy nilly. Amb Sac is NOT ENOUGH to provide healing, mana and dispells etc. Sure you can add Energy Borrow, but points are SCARE and can be better spent else where. Heals need to be cheaper, shorter cooldown. Synergy Bond needs to only take 1/2 the mana it gives. Protection is fine, except their weakness to Confuse. Don't get me wrong - when theings are going your way, and your mana problems are ok, Conju's are EXTREMELY fun to play. I really love it. However it just gets boring when you're constantly at <100 mana, watching every pixel fill for the cooldown of Amb Sac.

Did I go off topic? I can hardly remember what the topic is... Oops.

In my opinion - the order of frustrating classes, from MOST to LEAST.

1) Conjurer. (Mana issues etc.)
2) Barbarian. (Getting to your targets / hitting them.)
3) Marksmen. (Lack of individuality / mana.)
4) Knight. (Lack of purpose.)
5) Warlock. (Nothing... Maybe resists.)
6) Hunter. (Nothing.)

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

Hello everyone

Many of you requested this info.
Here you have a population distribution of active 40+ level characters in RA and Horus

Marksman: 11,31%
Knight: 13,52%
Warlock: 15,24%
Barbarian: 16,80%



Hunter: 21,14%
!!!!!


Conjurer: 21,99%


But we don't see as many of them as hunters.


this are my personal feelings (not NGD's)


Hey, but you are the Boss there, aren't you?:biggrin:


Marksmans: Boring to play.


Not at all IMO. I enjoy playing my marks recently. Markmsen can paralyze enemy warlocks quite good. I disagree with people that say marksmen are too static. This is matter of way how one plays marksmen.


Knight: Too hard to level and very low damage


Too few CC's, too useless in battle, too many useless spells.
Honestly I don't know what to do with knights, there are too many things to correct. If you make them able to tank harder, ranged classes will whine. If you make them hit harder, barbarians will whine.


Warlock: OK (OP)
Barbarian: OK (OP but whining)


Agreed.


Hunter: Super OP and too versatile
Conjurer: Super OP, too versatile and too easy to level (because of broken summons and many ways to regen)

Main problem IMO is, that pets/summons are too automatic and too hard hitting. Hunters can buff, and make their pets, hard blunt hitting monsters, do their job for them. Little skill is required to play. Similar problem is with warjurers, but they can't run away if things get nasty for them, and they can't attack from cammo . Note, support conju isn't overpowered at all.
I think that monsters should not be tameable, only beasts and lesser creatures, and damage of summons should be lowered.
I think that Low Profile as sanctuary should be removed from archers.
I think that Sanctuary (conjus spell) shoud be moved to healing tree, to lvl 15 or even 17 position. Conju should have Sanctuary only as long as he chooses to help his friends.

Edit: As for making pets useful in fort wars. I think that you should make hunters more attractrive in fort wars without pets (IMO they actually are, but, well, apparently not for all). Troll hunters spoil gameplay not only for enemy realms players, but also for friendly players. Those big monsters (or their owners rather) annoy people, by blocking possibility to select other friendly or foe characters (some simply don't understand when people yelling at them "get this troll out off the door") or by giving great sultar target.

Edit2:
I like marksman it's hard to get one lvl 50 but if you have one the efford was worth it :)
Strongly disagree. If you do this Enio's way, it's not much harder than conju.

[Seher]

Conjurers: INSANELY frustrating to play because of their STUPID MANA HUNGER. I mean seriously, I burn through mana on my Conju's like there's no mañana, and it's not like I'm throwing it around willy nilly. Amb Sac is NOT ENOUGH to provide healing, mana and dispells etc. Sure you can add Energy Borrow, but points are SCARE and can be better spent else where. Heals need to be cheaper, shorter cooldown. Synergy Bond needs to only take 1/2 the mana it gives. Protection is fine, except their weakness to Confuse. Don't get me wrong - when theings are going your way, and your mana problems are ok, Conju's are EXTREMELY fun to play. I really love it. However it just gets boring when you're constantly at <100 mana, watching every pixel fill for the cooldown of Amb Sac.

Can't agree, really... Mana serves the purpose to limit your damage/healing output, it's completely useless if you've got enough mana to spam everything whenever the cooldown allows it.

Whenever there's much to do, I'm low on mana, but that's great.
Hell, I even start spamming my syn 4 sometimes...

[ayexeyen_]

Hello everyone

Barbarian: 16,80%
Barbarian: OK (OP but whining)
please take into account that this is before the update. We have tackled the grinding of knights for example and we are trying to put a limit on hunter's versatility



With all respect to your personal opinion, it -->seem<-- to me that you have never tried to play a barbarian in war. Let me tell you my experience.

Barb is good for kill mobs, for level up and for boss time.

In war with my barb (premium, with a lot of good equip) I pass my time far from the ranges just because if I go close I die. I spend my time using "warsong" like a BARD not a BARB. If I try to go close, without a "sultar rush" (thing that all seem to have forgotten) I die without the chance to give a single shot.

In war a barb can be useful in a door fight, that's true, in that case you buff up, you use UM, and then go out to spam the area. At less you try to do that because often a low level mage cast on you beetle swarm lvl1 nullifying all of your efforts.

Can you imagine that I often enjoy more use my hunter in fort war without using the pet and camo?

And you say that a barb is OP... omg...

[Pimousse]

Marksmans: Boring to play
Knight: Too hard to level and very low damage
Warlock: OK (OP)
Barbarian: OK (OP but whining)
Hunter: Super OP and too versatile
Conjurer: Super OP, too versatile and too easy to level (because of broken summons and many ways to regen)

You think barbarian whining for what ? Number of CC is a problem (too many, making UM what it is), phantom swing (a lot are gone but not all), evades resists without any chance to act on, GCD and normals hit interference, standing in face of your ennemis and nothing happen if out of mana and trying to use a spell (when trying to feint a DI tardet too as exemple)- too reliant on buffs ... Hopefully barbarian still have good damages. Barbarian may become useless and boring to play after the update if damages are too low. But we will see.

Knight should have better to do than knarb.

Support conjurer are not OP imo.

[Lord_Latem]

Marksmans: Boring to play


Perhaps we need to bring the fun back? For me personally, the greatest impact was the introduction of the move, stop, wait, and then attack change introduced last year. This created a very static game play for me. Reducing the wait time 15% is a move in the right direction, but I think it should be taken further, especially marksmen are going to be at a disadvantage in terms of speed. While I was not overly fond of the corresponding damage reduction, I have lived with it. Overall, marksmen today are simply a shadow of their former selves.

[frank1216]

Yes, what can we do what hunters can't?
We can defend ourselves better with strat pos, wow, I did not choose marks for defence!
We have freeze and dizzy and speed reduction, 3 CC's from which freeze is more complained about by realmmates than useful, dizzy is just a 11 second later terror (it does not stop it at all as it used to do iirc) and a speed reduction which all hunters have.
Our range is barely noticable above hunters, are normal damage is barely higher (HOTP vs rech arrows) and all we have left is some spells which you use only against 1 target, so not much choice if you dont want to do what a hunter can do too right?
You can just focus on 1 enemy with normals and spells and that's it, and that is why I find it boring, I don't want to be forced in CC's what a hunter can do too (hunter is the supportive class, I am the offensive...).

All my opinion...

[dejan]

frank1216, freeze is commonly mistaken for damage-dealing spell. Annoying and useless one.
However, i think it is one of the most useful spells in marksman's arsenal.
1) You can help your realmmate to escape when in danger. (Attacked by a barbarian etc)
2) You can freeze an enemy who is about to cast some area spell (it is easy to see because it takes 2-3 sec), typically a warlock who is about to cast sultar.
3) You can prevent an enemy to run away.

Damage is totally unimportant in freeze's case...

[Kaixo]

Damage is totally unimportant in freeze's case...
The damage is good to avoid divine intervention.

[Mr_Egg]

Too bad there's no way to tell how many of these are boss drop campers. For sure you don't see any realm in Horus with 1 conjurer for every 5 people in their war group. But call for Vesper time or Evendim time and suddenly there's 3-4 conjurers for every 5 people.

Conjurers aren't so OP in war, they have good defenses but they have to deal with the constant demands of support while being favored targets. However they are OP at boss kills with their aura leeching. I hope you're not concluding that lots of people play conjurers in general, when it's more like lots of people have conjurers that they never bring to war, only to boss drop camping.

How do you define activity? Does total playing time count or is it just about logging in within some time period?
+1.... what I was trying to say but with better words :sifflote:

[Mattdoesrock]

Chilko - perhaps now, in this thread, is a good time for you (and / or Ponter) to fully explain your vision of the classes. How they should be in war / pvp / hunting etc.

I think everyone would like to see that.

[Shwish]

Chilko - perhaps now, in this thread, is a good time for you (and / or Ponter) to fully explain your vision of the classes. How they should be in war / pvp / hunting etc.

I think everyone would like to see that.

:thumb_up: that would be some really useful info

[Seher]

Chilko - perhaps now, in this thread, is a good time for you (and / or Ponter) to fully explain your vision of the classes. How they should be in war / pvp / hunting etc.

I think everyone would like to see that.

It seems that they actually don't have a detailed vision right now. ;P
Chilko mentioned somewhere they're arguing in NGD :sifflote: (And would chilko have posted his personal vision if NGDs vision was clear ?)

[lord_dvl]

This is the feeling of "now" but we have to consider that the little long way that regnum has.....

Every change had a preferred class, when i started playing (about 3 years ago) the preferred clas was Knights, then was hunters or marksman, then were warlocks and now is conjurer for all the reason that all of you mentioned, the next one....mmm i think will be the Marksman again.

If everything works as expected marksman will have more range (5 meters but with the passive and parabolic will be so much), more damage. I don't say that this is good or bad, i'm saying what i think.

Again, if everything work as expected, i think this is the first change that consider regnum as a team-work and no just a few changes in some classes.

And why this happend?, i think is not for preference but for the easy part of the game. How many times we read on the realm chat "Hey, i should be a.... or ....", and the time pass and the users make the same question because they are no looking for a class they think that the game ends at lvl 50 and the people wants to reach it as soon as possible, because they are used to do that in other games.

Also some users try to "change" Regnum (that is a war game) into a game that you have professions, commerce, and everything else, just like was Argentum or now is Runes of Magic, etc, etc.

That is what I see when i play.....

[UmarilsStillHere]

Then have all the devs post short posts with their opinions on what should be done and let us weigh in on it. And which we like best, you dont have to do the one (most) of us choose (if there is a clear winner) but the feedback cant hurt :)

[doppelapfel]

Marksmans: Boring to play
Right. our extra range compared to hunters and mages isnt worth much because ppl need a very short time to run that distance. Give us a slow down range 0 or something. Mana problems cause autohit setups that arent that funny. Many ppl start playing a marks as soon as they got a awesome equipment (boss/magna/dragonstuff). Marks with those things are op and fun, without lame. Fix this gap pls.



[COLOR="Red"]
Knight: Too hard to level and very low damage

The low damage would not be a problem if knights would have a reliable, good defense and anything that makes ppl attack them so they can tank. Atm they are like annyoing mosquitos, the worst thing they can do is kicking you down. Freeze them, kill everything else and then kill the knights, they are not dangerous. Improving the auras is a good step to give knights a better role in rvr. I would prefer dmgresists instead of blocks, they are unreliable.



Warlock: OK (OP)

OP because of three things:
1.: Insane castspeed with good gear. (Fixed on Amun in a great way!)
2.: Spell(CC)spamming has to do with point one and the fast gcd. Now limited with different GCDs
3.: ST was far too strong. I dont really like the randomness, as i said often i would have prefered a shorter range (all ranged classes can cancel a 25m spell), cd if cancelled, any dmg between the current and the amun version and no stacking which is and was the mainproblem with the spell.
I think locks will be fine after the update, lets see.




Barbarian: OK (OP but whining)

If you manage to face an enemy full buffed with berserk, um, defspells and everything then you are op in that situation. The problem is that barbs rely on buffs to much, espeaccily on um. It has a very long cd but you cant do much if it is off because everyon targets a near barb first. Less dmg in general and the new knight auras will help to fix this i hope, lets see how much fun a barb is after the update. More objects to hide from ranged attackers at forts could also help. The ability to climb up fort walls or jump them down for warriors would be awesome, what should a warrior do as long as the enemys are standing on the wall firing down at the zerg? Warriors battles at the wall to get into the fort/prevent that the enemy comes in would be awesome.




Hunter: Super OP and too versatile

Right. Giving them the choice between pets and camo is nice. Lower pet dmg and make them live longer in war to be effective there. I made some suggestions here. (http://regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1110171&postcount=138)




Conjurer: Super OP, too versatile and too easy to level (because of broken summons and many ways to regen)
Dmgconjus are op, thats right. New gcd and tm and silence nerf are a good start to solve this. All ranged summons need a fix, when you lowered ranged autohit dmg and gave us a higher attack speed you increased ghosts as too without nerfing the dmg, since this time zarkits are insane strong. Supportconjus are fun in my eyes, i dont understand all the whiners. Confuse is too strong against supporters, pls do anything about this.

[Beor_]

LOL
knight have low dps and barb are OP?
Someone was wrong when told me knights are the tanks and barbs are the main DPS.

[Barya]

As already was said.

Most Frustrating
Barbarian: Reason -- Mana-hungry. CC'd to the point of unplayability. Heavily targeted. Resists/Evades making the risks of charging almost not worth it and destroys fun.
Knight: Reason -- Too little damage, slow, blocking unreliable and unpredictable.
Conjurer (supporting): Reason -- Hard to target allies, heavily targeted. Plusses, allied heals/mana/buffs NEVER get resisted. Lack of protection from CC and rangers.

+1 to this
(played conju a lot -- added CC lack to conju minus, MindBlank is mainly useless, better to be lucky)

The reason NGD can not see what way going existing balance is they just dont care of live servers.
NGD not analyze existing data, not analyze war on live servers.
NGD even dont know that STANDART non-peak time warzone 30ppl group consists of 10locks 10archers 5conjus and 5warriors
and only ~50% of conjus are on supportive mode.

[Nekoko]

Marksman: 11,31%
Knight: 13,52%
Warlock: 15,24%
Barbarian: 16,80%
Hunter: 21,14%
Conjurer: 21,99%

I have to wonder if these numbers are players that just simply exist or people actually playing them. I have a marks sitting doing nothing at the moment do these numbers take into account the people who log in and actually play?

[linearguild]

I have to wonder if these numbers are players that just simply exist or people actually playing them. I have a marks sitting doing nothing at the moment do these numbers take into account the people who log in and actually play?

Original post says "active 40+ level characters". I'm just curious if they factor in playing time or simply count all logins.

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

Marksmans: Boring to play
Knight: Too hard to level and very low damage
Warlock: OK (OP)
Barbarian: OK (OP but whining)
Hunter: Super OP and too versatile
Conjurer: Super OP, too versatile and too easy to level (because of broken summons and many ways to regen)


my replies:

marksmen and knights are in parallel with my current opinions (although im kinda liking knight)

warlocks are pretty much the most balanced class right now (although on the verge of being slightly OP)

barbarians are not overpowered and could use a bit of a defensive buff but i mainly pay a barb so im a bit biased

hunter is the same

conjurers are in no way OP (support conjus that is). warjus.... it depends.

[ncvr]

Barbarians don't need an offensive or defensive buff, IMO. They need more mobility and a gap closer. While we are getting plenty of mobility with the next update, we still don't have a true gap closer, and I'm not sure if that mobility will be enough in a fort war (completely disregarding 1v1).

[GIO879]

Marksmans: Boring to play
Knight: Too hard to level and very low damage
Warlock: OK (OP)
Barbarian: OK (OP but whining)
Hunter: Super OP and too versatile
Conjurer: Super OP, too versatile and too easy to level (because of broken summons and many ways to regen)

please take into account that this is before the update. We have tackled the grinding of knights for example and we are trying to put a limit on hunter's versatility

marksmans boring to play , yes the uptade will confirme more your feeling
Knight: Too hard to level and very low damage , yes hard to level and too much positions and movement bugs i never play my knight
Warlock: OK (OP) yes i confirm
Barbarian: OK (OP but whining) really too much fragil, breakable, not enough faster
Hunter: Super OP and too versatile , yes the only thing to nerf is the pet nothing more! A pet does too much damage 400 + the hunter !!!! (more evendim' bow with a good gem and i don't speak about the mana spent) the speed of the hunter is too hight also !!

Conjurer: Super OP, too versatile and too easy to level (because of broken summons and many ways to regen) they are hell if they are warju impossible to win alone ... But it s ok a lot plays only for the support

[HidraA]

Heavy CC:
You can configure it to be very versatile and offer a good amount of support throught single target CCs while maintaining good (ranged) defense. High range there will be used very situational.


One think at this.If you dont have good items in actual game you are kinda useless...i made around 120-180 dmg with medium /fast bow.so all this have CC are kind useles..is like hit 10 hits and run if not all your defence buffs are down and your are kinda dead.


Sniping:
On another hand you can skill for a maximum ranged Sniper with limited cc capabilities and less defense, this is more boring to play. You use your points to max out damage and range and you have not much left over what allows you the kind of dynamic interaction i consider as much fun.


NPC guard as i told before...boring.and hight dmg isnt so hight



Give us something special, something tactical, something fun! :)
[/quote]

In two years i saw only removes of skills ,moust of them funny.
Like -escapist,speed from SOTW.
I dont see any new skill what i can say ...cool this is funny.


And too be on topic.
Better make one statistic on active players in last month.
Not on chars created.

[j4np0l]

this are my personal feelings (not NGD's)

Marksmans: Boring to play
Knight: Too hard to level and very low damage
Warlock: OK (OP)
Barbarian: OK (OP but whining)
Hunter: Super OP and too versatile
Conjurer: Super OP, too versatile and too easy to level (because of broken summons and many ways to regen)


You really really think every crying baby chooses to play a barbarian?......Or that maybe there is a reason for all the whining?

Or perhaps macho men play warloks or hunters? No, they are OP so they don't have anything to complain for.

It's like saying every people who plays in syrtis is gay because elves look that way...

I know this post doesn't follow your established pattern, but I needed to get that out of my chest.

My personal feelings about the barbarian: Really fun to play and a little OP ONLY IN A FEW SITUATIONS. Try playing in open field battles (which are more common than fort battles)...there you have to watch while Ranged players have fun....untill someone casts terror and you can do something. Or maybe try to fight a good lock or hunter in PvP (in the WZ, not the arena) and get yourself killed without landing one hit (locks are easier, but a good "hit and run" hunter is impossible to defeat).

I like my barb, but you need to fix it (or give knights better auras) so we can have fun in big open field battles (we are talking about Ra), without having to wait for a friendly terror.

Regards

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

whenever someone whines that UM is overpowered, it makes me laugh, its not an instant godmode spell like SoTW because it has a hell of a cast time whereas SoTW is instant. and it doesnt resist spells, it has a chance to resist knocks.

i cant tell you the amount of times i cast UM and immediately get my ass knocked to the ground. it happens more often than not. infact i think i have a video of that happening somewhere (and i dont ever get back up).....

at any rate, UM is not as great as every other class thinks it is. although, it can be extremely helpful in some situations (assuming that it works like it is supposed to for once).


sorry for being slightly random, but i needed to get it off my chest.

[Gabburtjuh]

when someone is casting a spell while your casting um/activating sotw, the effect doesnt count yet, and another problem with um: if they get a knock trough, and then thesame, it will stack.

[rogueish]

Sotw is hardly a god spell it has a chance to block attacks but doesnt always. Ive had many time after casting Sotw where a barb would stun me or another hunter would confuse me in spite of having it up. No spell works all the time every time. And barbs are very over powered no other class can kill my hunter as consistantly as a barb at my lvl. they stun you from what seems a long way off hit you 3 times and there goes 1 third of your hp. then you take 2 steps and a stunned again and there goes another third. take 2 more and your stunned again and dead. And thats the weaker ones some can 3 or 4 hit kill a hunter. Barbs just whine not because hunters are overpowered but because can escape if they can get a little distance away. Barbs feel they should be the center of the game because they are the main class for fort wars. And thats a fair opinion in some ways considering NGD has stated that the game in their vision should be all about fort wars.But I feel the main reason so many play hunters is not because they are over powered but rather because they have always offered an alternative gaming experience. Fort wars are inherently boring als take herb ignis takes aggers syrtis takes back herb als takes back aggers. Then als take meni ignis takes herb and so on over and over again. Invasions are good fun mainly because theyre occasional. Hunting has always added an alternative to endless fort wars and many players only even go to fort wars when there is a low game population in desperation to find someone to kill and even then it gets boring real fast. And its interesting that when I started playing the devs used to say that hunters were designed to harrass and kill enemys in the war zone now they seem to feel hunters are supposed to play support at fort battles. Thats a joke and I gaurantee when this update goes live if its in the current form this games gonna lose more players than it did last nerf. And I remember last time a dev said in the forum that they knew the changes were gonna make some players quit but were confident that those numbers would be more than made up by new players attracted by the changes. From what Ive seen of the current population that was a fail also.

[ncvr]

[...]
...
I should be having fun. Reading this post should be hilarious and entertaining. You don't know anything about my class, and you are attempting to tell NGD about balance in relation to it. This should be hilarious to me.

Instead, all I feel is a deep sadness.

[Minorian]

Thats a joke and I gaurantee when this update goes live if its in the current form this games gonna lose more players than it did last nerf.

Good, all the hunters that cant handle a non-OP class can go f*** themselves.

[Shwish]

whenever someone whines that UM is overpowered, it makes me laugh, its not an instant godmode spell like SoTW because it has a hell of a cast time whereas SoTW is instant. and it doesnt resist spells, it has a chance to resist knocks.


if only you knew how much times i've died while under SoTW

[bigjim138]

Sotw is hardly a god spell it has a chance to block attacks but doesnt always. Ive had many time after casting Sotw where a barb would stun me or another hunter would confuse me in spite of having it up. No spell works all the time every time. And barbs are very over powered no other class can kill my hunter as consistantly as a barb at my lvl. they stun you from what seems a long way off hit you 3 times and there goes 1 third of your hp. then you take 2 steps and a stunned again and there goes another third. take 2 more and your stunned again and dead. And thats the weaker ones some can 3 or 4 hit kill a hunter. Barbs just whine not because hunters are overpowered but because can escape if they can get a little distance away. Barbs feel they should be the center of the game because they are the main class for fort wars. And thats a fair opinion in some ways considering NGD has stated that the game in their vision should be all about fort wars.But I feel the main reason so many play hunters is not because they are over powered but rather because they have always offered an alternative gaming experience. Fort wars are inherently boring als take herb ignis takes aggers syrtis takes back herb als takes back aggers. Then als take meni ignis takes herb and so on over and over again. Invasions are good fun mainly because theyre occasional. Hunting has always added an alternative to endless fort wars and many players only even go to fort wars when there is a low game population in desperation to find someone to kill and even then it gets boring real fast. And its interesting that when I started playing the devs used to say that hunters were designed to harrass and kill enemys in the war zone now they seem to feel hunters are supposed to play support at fort battles. Thats a joke and I gaurantee when this update goes live if its in the current form this games gonna lose more players than it did last nerf. And I remember last time a dev said in the forum that they knew the changes were gonna make some players quit but were confident that those numbers would be more than made up by new players attracted by the changes. From what Ive seen of the current population that was a fail also.

Maybe you just can't play your class?

[rogueish]

While I do find youre attempts at personal insult hillarious. You who whine constantly because you dont win every fight really should just learn to play the chars you chose to play rather than whine that everyone else is overpowered. There are some great barbs and knights in this game who really know how to play and usually beat me. Then there are the losers who want every other class nerfed so they can win without having to actually bother to learn how to play well and constantly whine in the forums. My question is assuming many of the whiners have been playing for quite a while many even before the last big hunter nerf. Why did you choose to play a class your certainly just no good at. As a side note after the big hunter nerf last year many of the hunters I knew switched to barbs because they became the strongest class yet you still whine and project your own inadequasies on to others that actually do know how to play their class. It will be sad after this round of nerfs when you still lose and come back here to the forum and whine for more nerfs rather than face the truth about yourselves.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Paragraphs are fun, you should try them sometime.

[tjanex]

While I do find youre attempts at personal insult hillarious. You who whine constantly because you dont win every fight really should just learn to play the chars you chose to play rather than whine that everyone else is overpowered. There are some great barbs and knights in this game who really know how to play and usually beat me. Then there are the losers who want every other class nerfed so they can win without having to actually bother to learn how to play well and constantly whine in the forums. My question is assuming many of the whiners have been playing for quite a while many even before the last big hunter nerf. Why did you choose to play a class your certainly just no good at. As a side note after the big hunter nerf last year many of the hunters I knew switched to barbs because they became the strongest class yet you still whine and project your own inadequasies on to others that actually do know how to play their class. It will be sad after this round of nerfs when you still lose and come back here to the forum and whine for more nerfs rather than face the truth about yourselves.

You whine that others shouldn't whine now oO

[rogueish]

You whine that others shouldn't whine now oO

Actually I originally simply stated my opinion as to why many played hunters and commented on the negative effects on the player base in general since the last nerf.
In my second post I responded to a couple of personal attacks and stated the facts about their playing ability. And how it was likely to be after the cahnges when they still lose. And believe me they will. Any changes NGD makes short of making their class gods wont help people with no skills.
Hunters are not overpowered just the only truly fun class on the game. If you think the user base is small now see what happens without a good hunting class.
And Im not whining I gave up on this game a long time ago and only recently came back so I dont have that much invested in it this time.
Personally I would like to see them completely remove hunters from the game rather than pick them apart constantly. I believe that would really make a lot clear to NGD. Then at least the losers could spend all their time whining about locks or marks for a change. And they would.

[bigjim]

Actually I originally simply stated my opinion as to why many played hunters and commented on the negative effects on the player base in general since the last nerf.
In my second post I responded to a couple of personal attacks and stated the facts about their playing ability. And how it was likely to be after the cahnges when they still lose. And believe me they will. Any changes NGD makes short of making their class gods wont help people with no skills.
Hunters are not overpowered just the only truly fun class on the game. If you think the user base is small now see what happens without a good hunting class.
And Im not whining I gave up on this game a long time ago and only recently came back so I dont have that much invested in it this time.
Personally I would like to see them completely remove hunters from the game rather than pick them apart constantly. I believe that would really make a lot clear to NGD. Then at least the losers could spend all their time whining about locks or marks for a change. And they would.

How about you wait and see what the new update brings before complaining so god damn much.

[Topogigio_BR]

With all respect to your personal opinion, it -->seem<-- to me that you have never tried to play a barbarian in war. Let me tell you my experience.

Barb is good for kill mobs, for level up and for boss time.

In war with my barb (premium, with a lot of good equip) I pass my time far from the ranges just because if I go close I die. I spend my time using "warsong" like a BARD not a BARB. If I try to go close, without a "sultar rush" (thing that all seem to have forgotten) I die without the chance to give a single shot.

In war a barb can be useful in a door fight, that's true, in that case you buff up, you use UM, and then go out to spam the area. At less you try to do that because often a low level mage cast on you beetle swarm lvl1 nullifying all of your efforts.

Can you imagine that I often enjoy more use my hunter in fort war without using the pet and camo?

And you say that a barb is OP... omg...

Just asking you and how many more meeles against how many ranged ppl?

[Topogigio_BR]

The damage is good to avoid divine intervention.

But the damage could be 100 at lvl5 that would do the same effect.
effect time of winter as a way to make target in max range possible is more relevant than its damage.

[Topogigio_BR]

Seems that every time you try to have some serious discussion about classes has someone to try to make the topic like joke.

[Topogigio_BR]

this are my personal feelings (not NGD's)

Marksmans: Boring to play
Knight: Too hard to level and very low damage
Warlock: OK (OP)
Barbarian: OK (OP but whining)
Hunter: Super OP and too versatile
Conjurer: Super OP, too versatile and too easy to level (because of broken summons and many ways to regen)

Knights and Barbs i will not comment, i dont have many experience on that till now, just think the problem with meeles is try to fight alone 3-5 ranged as Arafails said above normal wars has 1% of warriors. Than when you try to get close, every1 shoot/cast on you. Don't really see how it could be different.


Marksman
Is my favorite class. the problem in archer class in general is that they are kind of middle point. Marks and hunter are not supposed to have best defense or best attack in game, Making than in pretty much similar. I really think problem with marks in live server are not exactly the lack of damage, but much more the lack of versatility. Marks characteristic should be range and the tree that add more versatility in archers game play is "tricks" where most of spells are short range. I would like to see Marks with more spells and debuffs from 0 range or at least 35 range that is the current max bow range in amum, specialy spells that effect atributs, like dex/strengh, evasion/hit chance and const. basicaly making than less mana cost and less cool down, not necessarily with a good damage.

Hunters
I like the way hunters is being made in amum, although i think hunters should have the advantage of surprise and a chance of scape. That chance of scape that i see was great reduction for hunters game play in amum version, i think they’re speed could be little bit bigger as wild spirit on 10%.

Warlocks
The fragility and lack of defense spells are very well balanced with the power of attack spells. The big problem is with sultar terror but i think it should be solved like giving each stacked sultar half of the chance to knock ppl, in a way the first should have 90% chance of knocking, the second sultar has 45% chance of knocking, the thrid 23% chance...

Conjurer
As i said in other post the over power of conjurers is just his high dps when combined with summon. My suggestion is to remove Zarkits from the game and turn the 2 last spells of summon into a support kind of spell. Blood drinker could give a small amount of hp for damage dealed to enemy, maybe 10 or 15% tops.

For that ppl that say that you never have a conju near, i just say you never have cos you never dispose your self to protect conjus. All ppl that play support conjus know the lack of protection that we have in full support setup.

[Mashu]

H

Marksmans: Boring to play
Knight: Too hard to level and very low damage
Warlock: OK (OP)
Barbarian: OK (OP but whining)
Hunter: Super OP and too versatile
Conjurer: Super OP, too versatile and too easy to level (because of broken summons and many ways to regen)


Knight: Too slow leveling, maybe different XP per class ? Good defense, nice tank with CC's a lot of times saved my butt during the battle.
Warlock: Slutar is OP, the rest is OK
Barbarian: Failing UM (make it 100% like other classes), weak protection, very slow weapons and now lowered dmg, no onslaught, useless spells that don't do anything that one would care and the most mana hungry class. (I have one) - Can be easily CC-ed and killed before reaching the target not even able to hit once (not rushing alone) can't return dmg on range so the best to target first.
Hunter: Super OP, too versatile, too many speed skills in one tree (I have one)
Conjurer: Fast leveling but it's OK, because usually no one wants to play conjurer because healing is boring. (I have one)

[tjanex]

You forgot marks --> without powers after that update --> FAR to hard to grind...

[doppelapfel]

You forgot marks --> without powers after that update --> FAR to hard to grind...

Its even easier because of the longer range and the time mobs need to turn around.

[Gabburtjuh]

[ Good defense, nice tank with CC's a lot of times saved my butt during the battle.
Warlock: Slutar is OP, the rest is OK
Barbarian: Failing UM (make it 100% like other classes), weak protection, very slow weapons and now lowered dmg, no onslaught, useless spells that don't do anything that one would care and the most mana hungry class. (I have one) - Can be easily CC-ed and killed before reaching the target not even able to hit once (not rushing alone) can't return dmg on range so the best to target first.
Hunter: Super OP, too versatile, too many speed skills in one tree (I have one)
Conjurer: Fast leveling but it's OK, because usually no one wants to play conjurer because healing is boring. (I have one)

knight, defense fails, only like 2 acctual def buffs, and ao1.
locks, cs to powerfull, you can just cast to fast, and you can also combine it with good normals(staff mastery, mana control, necromancy, arcania and mental, 3x lvl 19 and 2x lvl 15.
barb, failing UM, all spells with % or +.. in something fail, only things that guarantee effect(acro, berserk, ao1), about the cc to death, its not that simple, a UMed and DIed barb group of like 4 barbs, and add 2 or 3 knights with ao1 up or ready, isnt that easy to stop, and if the warrior group comes close, and is able to cc the other group, things like darkness and confuse, or dizzy/slow after getting up really screws the group that got rushed.
Hunter, not OP on hisself, troll+camo+confuse is, to much speed, look at NGDs opinion, hunters should be the fastest class, remove speed from sotw and you kinda fine, since lp will get cast time and you have to use points to get it
Conjurer, fast lvling right, but not if you acctually play conj, and healing isnt that boring, i know alot of ppl that like it alot, even tho the bitching

[trulyem]

this are my personal feelings (not NGD's)

Marksmans: Boring to play
Knight: Too hard to level and very low damage
Warlock: OK (OP)
Barbarian: OK (OP but whining)
Hunter: Super OP and too versatile
Conjurer: Super OP, too versatile and too easy to level (because of broken summons and many ways to regen)

I wonder where you got this "personal feelings". I'm pretty sure none from NGD play this game except log in to their GM chars to brag and look godly.

After this update ALL classes are hard to grind. Great way to hoard more profits from scrolls.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Mobs have yet to be balanced, most will be easier to kill than on the live servers, compensating the current changes to our chars.

[SirHiss]

Conj easy? yeah maybe its kinda easy to lvl up. But try go out in wz with hunting party and u bump into two or more hunters, ull get targeted first and probebly wont even last 10 sec in the fight. We might be alil OP but that doesnt matter since u never get the chance to throw anything

[trulyem]

Conj easy? yeah maybe its kinda easy to lvl up. But try go out in wz with hunting party and u bump into two or more hunters, ull get targeted first and probebly wont even last 10 sec in the fight. We might be alil OP but that doesnt matter since u never get the chance to throw anything

Exactly the point I'm trying to make. NGD never plays period. No knowledge of whatsoever. Just daydreaming with Gm chars.

[Topogigio_BR]

Conj easy? yeah maybe its kinda easy to lvl up. But try go out in wz with hunting party and u bump into two or more hunters, ull get targeted first and probebly wont even last 10 sec in the fight. We might be alil OP but that doesnt matter since u never get the chance to throw anything

Conjus dont need a zarkit to use in wz, indeed most of summon tree is useless in wz.
So just remove zarkits and Conjus are ok. SM was already nerfed enough

[Mr_Egg]

Conjurer: Super OP, too versatile and too easy to level (because of broken summons and many ways to regen) they are hell if they are warju impossible to win alone ... But it s ok a lot plays only for the support
If anything needs a nerf, it's the warju spells, right? We're talking zarkits and maybe SM (and I've suggested before, reduce zarkit to range 20, make SM spells non-stackable), but the sad truth is that NGD is only nerfing support spells so far. :tsk_tsk:

Which is ridiculous, because support conjurers are not OP at all, but still:


Heal ally - nerfed
GH - nerfed (and the new "area heal" is awful.... 4s cast!?!?!?!?)
The new skill point system is technically a nerf because I can't fit everything I had before into one setup. (although I used a few things on level 1, maybe this is to "specialise" conjs)
Steel skin - nerfed (from 90-70% on level 5.... yeah, ok, warjus use this too, but most players don't know how to protect conjs, so support needs some defense too)


We are not trying to nerf conjurers.
Our objective is to have more support conjurers. Somehow I don't think this is how to attract more support.... yeah, ok, I've not seen what's going to happen to warju yet, but support conjurer looks like it's going to be so much less fun to play....

[fritsz]

If anything needs a nerf, it's the warju spells, right? We're talking zarkits and maybe SM (and I've suggested before, reduce zarkit to range 20, make SM spells non-stackable), but the sad truth is that NGD is only nerfing support spells so far. :tsk_tsk:

Which is ridiculous, because support conjurers are not OP at all, but still:


Heal ally - nerfed
GH - nerfed (and the new "area heal" is awful.... 4s cast!?!?!?!?)
The new skill point system is technically a nerf because I can't fit everything I had before into one setup. (although I used a few things on level 1, maybe this is to "specialise" conjs)
Steel skin - nerfed (from 90-70% on level 5.... yeah, ok, warjus use this too, but most players don't know how to protect conjs, so support needs some defense too)



Somehow I don't think this is how to attract more support.... yeah, ok, I've not seen what's going to happen to warju yet, but support conjurer looks like it's going to be so much less fun to play....

I totally agree with Egg, why do you nerf heal ally? Everyone wants be heald so i think everyone would like to have higher heals not lower ones.
Really NGD if you do this you wont have support conjus left, i said it before but i want to say it again i wont play support anymore when you are doing this.

[Pimousse]

With all new armor fix, knight aura, general damage reduction i think its hard to estimate how bad healing will be. Maybe give it a try when update release on live server ?

[fritsz]

With all new armor fix, knight aura, general damage reduction i think its hard to estimate how bad healing will be. Maybe give it a try when update release on live server ?

Maybe you are right, and i am to fast with my opinion but a lvl 40 conjurer has 2200-2300 hp, i can heal him 400 while a barb sometimes need just 2 hits to kill his barrier and all his hp.
I dont think it will work, as conjurer i feel usefull now without area's (im most of the time only using pylon and GH at door wars) but with that 20% i cant heal much even whith knight aura's

[doppelapfel]

Maybe you are right, and i am to fast with my opinion but a lvl 40 conjurer has 2200-2300 hp, i can heal him 400 while a barb sometimes need just 2 hits to kill his barrier and all his hp.
I dont think it will work, as conjurer i feel usefull now without area's (im most of the time only using pylon and GH at door wars) but with that 20% i cant heal much even whith knight aura's

No barb will kill a lvl 40 conju with eb in two hits anymore after the overall dmg reduction. One of the points you missed. Youve also ignored the tools a lvl 40 conju can use beside eb (selheal/regen, steel skin, karma mirror, sanct.).
I like the change of healing because it makes the hpdifference between warriors and archers/mages something worth. Before it made no real defense how much hp you have because if you get constantly healed like in war it doesnt matter, both get the same amount hp. Now the hpbar is more important.

[e30G]

It's not really about the disparity between heals on mages against warriors. It's how such a system will hurt healing low levels in war and the additional mana costs Conjurers will endure to support a war army since they will have to cast even more.

From my tests so far, it was damn frustrating having to cast the same spell over and over again the same target just to keep him alive against a mob. It could be balanced but it's just terrible to play that way.

[doppelapfel]

It's not really about the disparity between heals on mages against warriors. It's how such a system will hurt healing low levels in war and the additional mana costs Conjurers will endure to support a war army since they will have to cast even more.
Are you really sure that conjus will have to heal more? Dont forget the new/fixed knight spells.


From my tests so far, it was damn frustrating having to cast the same spell over and over again the same target just to keep him alive against a mob. It could be balanced but it's just terrible to play that way.

From my tests it is still easy to support two grinders (did not test with more ppl). You have to use heal ally more often, thats right but i dont see this as a negative point. Before i had to use maybe 6 spells per minute, 2x regen, 4x synergy bound and could read the rest of the time or do anything else.

[e30G]

Are you really sure that conjus will have to heal more? Dont forget the new/fixed knight spells.

You are right. We can heal less since the spell's worth is way less now. Might as well bring the old mentalist setups back to life. :)

The problem with these healing spells is that it's too centric to level 50s. Also I expect to see a lot of focused fire more with the changes NGD made. Even now with the current heals you see targets die in less than 5 seconds in war. Heal Ally was good at buying some time here specially if you cannot dispel a CC'd target. On the Amun system, I wouldn't even bother to waste my mana for that.


You have to use heal ally more often, thats right but i dont see this as a negative point.

I do. It's akin to casting nothing but South Cross over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.......

Before i had to use maybe 6 spells per minute, 2x regen, 4x synergy bound and could read the rest of the time or do anything else.

6 spells only? You have an easy life.

[Zordak]

Are you really sure that conjus will have to heal more? Dont forget the new/fixed knight spells.


So to actually stay alive you will now not only need a conjurer to DI you you will also need a knight with auras to reduce the damage to a level you can cope with with the new heal ally?
I dont see any progress in class balance from this point of view.


From my tests it is still easy to support two grinders (did not test with more ppl). You have to use heal ally more often, thats right but i dont see this as a negative point. Before i had to use maybe 6 spells per minute, 2x regen, 4x synergy bound and could read the rest of the time or do anything else.

I dont think taking a comfortable "i can read while doing it" levelling assistance situation as basis for balancing a class-defining spell.
From my game experience heal ally is almost allways on cooldown. It only isnt when i am out of mana. The latter problem is not being adressed at all, reduced effect of the new spell did not come with a mana cost reduction, a cooldown reduction or a cast time removal. You will need - including gcd - 50s and 1200 mana to fully restore an ally now. Ironically it is cheaper to just let him die and revive him - unless he has more than 5k hp. And actually not much faster than having him rest.

Heal ally is the only spell that can actually make a target survive the next blow, and for mages, archers and lowlevels of any kind it will not fulfill this function anymore.

Z.

[doppelapfel]

You are right. We can heal less since the spell's worth is way less now. Might as well bring the old mentalist setups back to life. :)
Im pretty sure you understood me but ill explain it for you:
Atm Knight auras are nearly never used higher than lvl 1 (at least on niflheim where i play mostly). Used are: GH, MP, MC. No imagine after this update most knights use theyre auras which also have a better area. In a big fight with many chars from all classes its constant -40% ranged dmg constant +80% ap and often a short period of high resist against physical dmg, maybe even magical but i dont think it will be used that often. MP stays the same as far as i know, only gh was nerfed but i think what i mentioned above is more than filling this gap. Oh and dont forget that all warriors and archers received a dmgnerf and locks will now cast much slower and have longer gcd. This all means a great dmg reduction, thats why less or less powerfull heals might be needed.


The problem with these healing spells is that it's too centric to level 50s. Also I expect to see a lot of focused fire more with the changes NGD made. Even now with the current heals you see targets die in less than 5 seconds in war. Heal Ally was good at buying some time here specially if you cannot dispel a CC'd target. On the Amun system, I wouldn't even bother to waste my mana for that.
Im sure most conjus will still use their mana for heal spells, youre overacting. About the focused fire:
1. Already mentioned new auras and less dmg
2. If many ppl focus on one target it should be dead, how else should a war end? Only by areaspamming?
3. There are a lot spells to protect important allies like conjus. For example Material wall which is atm mostly used at lvl 1.


I do. It's akin to casting nothing but South Cross over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.......
If you want to make heals less important you should be happy about the nerf and suggest other things instead. First complaining about it being less usefull and so less important then complaining about it being too important makes no sense in my eyes.


6 spells only? You have an easy life.
I was talking about supporting single players while grinding. Well i usually use bless weapon and the strength- oder dexbuff each 3 minutes too and in rare situations heal ally but usually regenerate and some mana is enough. I could use a lot more spells, material wall, more heals, more dispells... but its just not necessary.


So to actually stay alive you will now not only need a conjurer to DI you you will also need a knight with auras to reduce the damage to a level you can cope with with the new heal ally?
I dont see any progress in class balance from this point of view
I like the fact that knights are good helps for their allies now. See it from the other side: Knights are important now. Its as a knight would have complained after 1.0 before cause noone wants his auras anymore. Didnt really get what you meant with DI, i didnt talk about it anywhere?

I dont think taking a comfortable "i can read while doing it" levelling assistance situation as basis for balancing a class-defining spell.
This was only an answer to that:
From my tests so far, it was damn frustrating having to cast the same spell over and over again the same target just to keep him alive against a mob.

From my game experience heal ally is almost allways on cooldown. It only isnt when i am out of mana. The latter problem is not being adressed at all, reduced effect of the new spell did not come with a mana cost reduction, a cooldown reduction or a cast time removal. You will need - including gcd - 50s and 1200 mana to fully restore an ally now. Ironically it is cheaper to just let him die and revive him - unless he has more than 5k hp. And actually not much faster than having him rest.
It will need 50 seconds for a single conju who uses only heal ally. If this is how you calculate: atm it can take 50 seconds and 1,2k mana to fully restore a knight. You did not consider that it will also take a lot more time to get an enemy down with better armor points, better and more auras and a lower dmg in general. You remind me of the guys crying that their dmg is nerfed on amun without seeing that everyones dmg is nerfed.

[e30G]

Im pretty sure you understood me but ill explain it for you:
Atm Knight auras are nearly never used higher than lvl 1 (at least on niflheim where i play mostly). Used are: GH, MP, MC. No imagine after this update most knights use theyre auras which also have a better area. In a big fight with many chars from all classes its constant -40% ranged dmg constant +80% ap and often a short period of high resist against physical dmg, maybe even magical but i dont think it will be used that often. MP stays the same as far as i know, only gh was nerfed but i think what i mentioned above is more than filling this gap. Oh and dont forget that all warriors and archers received a dmgnerf and locks will now cast much slower and have longer gcd. This all means a great dmg reduction, thats why less or less powerfull heals might be needed.

It's not the overall power of the heals, but the way it scales down to low hp targets like people below 50 that concerns me. Damage isn't based on target HP. With the costs involved, it becomes less practical to support these people in war.

Im sure most conjus will still use their mana for heal spells, youre overacting. About the focused fire:
1. Already mentioned new auras and less dmg
2. If many ppl focus on one target it should be dead, how else should a war end? Only by areaspamming?
3. There are a lot spells to protect important allies like conjus. For example Material wall which is atm mostly used at lvl 1.

If a target is focused, they have very little time to react. Heal Ally was a way to counter focused fire for a very short period of time. What you are saying is that it is ok for focused fire to have no counter, similarly to how area spams have little counters today.

With the current mana shortages and consumption, Conjurers who actually play with skill will most likely be more picky when it comes to targets to heal. Sure the spell will be used more, but it will be on their personal favorites or famously skilled players. Why save someone you don't know when you can just focus on a single target and keep that target alive? Why care about that lowbie when it will be cheaper to simply revive him.... oh wait, I'll reserve my revive for an allied Conjurer or a well known effective player too!


If you want to make heals less important you should be happy about the nerf and suggest other things instead. First complaining about it being less usefull and so less important then complaining about it being too important makes no sense in my eyes.

My suggestion has been to make a base absolute heal per level then an additional bonus based on caster's int. That way we wouldn't rely on other people's stats. We already rely on them to survive and now we have to rely on their stats too to be effective?

[doppelapfel]

My suggestion has been to make a base absolute heal per level then an additional bonus based on caster's int. That way we wouldn't rely on other people's stats. We already rely on them to survive and now we have to rely on their stats too to be effective?
I would prefere an absolute heal and % of targets hp. Ive always wondered how a knight with an awesome number of hp should tank if he cant use them, he needs the same number of heals to stay alive as someone with low hp. Its like the manapool for mages, in a longer during fight some more aren worth anything, its just about regenerating it fast and constantly. The idea of % heal would solve this but i also agree with you that it would hurt low lvl players hard. So make it relying on targets hp and add a fixed number again like maybe 15% of targets hp on all lvls and 100/150/200/250/300 fixed.
This would mean for a mage with 3k hp 500 hp plus 300 is 800, a bit less than before the update but i think ppl could live with this cause of the lower dmg in generell.
A knight with 4,5k hp would get 750 plus 300 ist 1050, better for them as the version on the live servers and their higher basehp would give them a good advantage compared to those with less hp.
A lower Marks with lets say 2k hp would get 300 plus 300 is 600, less than before in the current version but still much more than on amun (400 there).
A low lvl conju with heal 2 could heal a low lvl player who has 1,5k hp with 250 plus 150 is 400, a bit less then in the current version.