New Balance Update: Armor system fix (Stage 11)

[chilko]

Hello Everyone!

Stage 11 is up on Amun!

Armor System fixes

BUG FIX: multi damage should be calculated properly
BUG FIX: Armor factor per class working as intended
New calculation for damage bonuses to make weapon damage bonus work always positively


Other changes:


First iteration of balance for summons
New graphic model and variations for Liches.
New spawn animations
New weapon damage calculation for mobs

[HuntShot]

No BIIGGG Changes this time?

[Topogigio_BR]

They changed damage, armor and damage bonus and you say no bog changes.:horsey:

[HuntShot]

They changed damage, armor and damage bonus and you say no bog changes.:horsey:

xD why did you left is 10 mins ago..... we killed Aysor:D:D

But now on Topic the New Liches look AMAZING Nice done

[_Arwen_]

Glad to see you guys cranking out another stage, I only have 2 questions:

1) If you try to summon next to an obstacle you get the message "No space for summon" which forces you into cool down but still places the icon as a "Buff" under your name in the top left. Is this intentional?

2) I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but can we get the exact formula used to calculate damage and armor so we can check to make sure all combinations of bonus' and gems are working properly?

[LupeFiasco]

Sounds interesting, lets test my college connection!

[Topogigio_BR]

I still think the mana cost/effect time/damage is not set right for summons.
Lich shaman (lvl5) is 500 mana, 40s, for around 160 damage, i think slow, to much mana cost for low effect time and not to big damage.
Expect for golens that the damage is right, lower than live server demons but rigth.

In amum we have 3 summons demon/lich/golem i would suggest to make one fast, one med and one slow, that will make then more usable. I would suggest make the first summon fast, as they are the first newbies have acess, and newbies generaly dont have much range so is better to have fast atack.

Lich and demon has to little effect time, have no fun casting summons all time make than at least 120 sec.

Although golem damage is fine, i think he has low hp/armour for a meele atacker, if conjus cannot heal summons i think is fair for meele summon have more hp or armour.

I liked the new lichs but i think lich lord(lvl4) is more cool than Shaman lich (lvl5), i would change then.

I think imps and zombies were not revised, am i right?

[Altara]

The golems commands on the bottom dont work for me, (using level 5 at the time)
trying to select one makes me untarget as if the bar wasn't there and I was just clicking the ground.

[Isemon]

Summon cost is right imo, since the efford to be a summoner have to be like that.

BUT

still life tree is not appealing enough, mana cost are too high there, and for example 20% heal ally is a strange way to heal, i mean: a knight receive 1000+ heal while a mage or a archer receive 600-700 heal, knight being able to receive more damage with all his protections should receive less than a defenseless mage that need more help to stay alive. That spell should be adjusted according to the class you healing, for example for knight is right 20% for mages and archer could be 25%.

Also the new spell mass heal should have less cd to be attractive 240 sec for 500/650 hp is not worth 5 points. I could understand more 180 sec.

[tjanex]

I like this one so far even though I aggree with Isemon

[ice_zero_cool]

the last updates are all great from reading, but I can't test them :( someone has some pics of the new summons?

[Znurre]

for example 20% heal ally is a strange way to heal, i mean: a knight receive 1000+ heal while a mage or a archer receive 600-700 heal, knight being able to receive more damage with all his protections should receive less than a defenseless mage that need more help to stay alive. That spell should be adjusted according to the class you healing, for example for knight is right 20% for mages and archer could be 25%.I see this as an attempt to make healing warriors more attractive.
In the long run it will mean that other classes will be more reliant on warriors to protect them, which would comply with NGD's vision of balance.

On Amun, as a barbarian, I will receive around 940hp/heal which is an improvement.

[KKharzov]

BUG FIX: multi damage should be calculated properly
What does this mean?

[Myxir]

I see this as an attempt to make healing warriors more attractive.
In the long run it will mean that other classes will be more reliant on warriors to protect them, which would comply with NGD's vision of balance.

On Amun, as a barbarian, I will receive around 940hp/heal which is an improvement.

At first I was sceptical about this change too. But Conjurers have some other heal skills as well. There is a mass healing *and* a mass regeneration now. Additionally there is still regenerate ally.
So healing needs to be done more carefully as well.
Is it better to heal ally the mage or regenerate him and hope he stays more defensive until he gets more life and instead give heal ally to warriors etc. etc. and so on.

We have not seen the new changes in a real war state yet.

Btw, the damage and armor fix sound nice :p


What does this mean?

Spells that have damage of more than one kind, I guess.

[KKharzov]

Spells that have damage of more than one kind, I guess.
I figured out as much myself, but I was looking for more details.

Does this mean weapons with multiple damage will do less damage or more damage? I'd like to know what the bug itself was.

[PT_DaAr_PT]

I figured out as much myself, but I was looking for more details.

Does this mean weapons with multiple damage will do less damage or more damage? I'd like to know what the bug itself was.

A blunt and pierce damaging Hammer would do much less damage than a slash damaging Axe.
(example: A knight hammer would do 150 damage on syrtian guards while an axe could do more than 300)

[KKharzov]

A blunt and pierce damaging Hammer would do much less damage than a slash damaging Axe.
Really? I never saw that, on the contrary depending on bonuses the multiple damage weapon would do even more damage (on normal hits only).

Either way, I guess this means +dmg gems will have more value now.

[Creror]

Other changes:


New graphic model and variations for Liches.


Well, i hoped that the incorporeal will replace the liches,
but i give it a try, hope the liches looks now good.

[Isemon]

i just tested on amun and i would like to submit what i tested to NGD attention:

damage done by a hunter with a fast 30 short bow:
-115-121 on an unbuffed mage without any kind of setup
-133-143 on an unbuffed mage skilling with dexerity to the max
-140-161 on the same unbuffed target with the addiction of specialist passive damage
-289-293 on the same target still unbuffed with dex+specialist+cold blood

on a buffed target my damage do not reach 100


After that i tested pet damage, and it is obvious it is not needed a nerf to bestial wrath anymore or that pet discipline need an improvement like it was done for summons:

-189-210 was the damage of the pet on an unbuffed archer with bestial wrath ofc
-98-110 was the damage of the pet on a full buffed archer with bestial wrath

the damage of the pet was 0 on a full buffed knight

[New_barb]

this sounds logic to me..? hunters shouldn't hit high on warriors and btw what buffs did he used? not say full buffed knight because some knights has other buffs then some others...

[Isemon]

this sounds logic to me..? hunters shouldn't hit high on warriors and btw what buffs did he used? not say full buffed knight because some knights has other buffs then some others...


with the current state of hunter they cannot hit high on anyone(they couldn't even before the balance, their damage came almost all from pet), the knight was using caution + defensive stance

i just mean that hunter should have still a chance to win on 1 vs 1, with armour changes and hunter nerfs it is not possible anymore.

[Creror]

After playing some old rpgs on the ps2, I stumbled over ... something very strange ...

Well ... well ... i don't know how to say this, but ... was that intended? oO

http://www.regnumonlinegame.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=30789&stc=1&d=1283254629

Especially the head and the floating limbs looks very very similar ...

[blood-raven]

euh full buffed i do 0 dmg on a knight, is this a joke or what?

regards

[Shwish]

euh full buffed i do 0 dmg on a knight, is this a joke or what?

regards

it seems that the maximum damage reduction cap was removed. i hope this is just an error

[UmarilsStillHere]

...

Because no game has ever had metal golems before?

If you look at wolves, golems, gouls, orcs etc in almost ever game they look similar.

I like the new Lichs, but the higher level ones could do with new staves, they all still use initiation ones :)

And Cristal Golems? I think you mean 'Crystal'

[HuntShot]

it seems that the maximum damage reduction cap was removed. i hope this is just an error

I think you mean minimum

They removed the minimum 10%(or 15% tell me if Im wrong)damage I seriously hit unbuffed 0 on a buffed knight and he was only using Defensive Stance, same thing with my Beastly Bear with Bestial Wrath(5)

I hope this is a bug.... because this cant be true right?
then it would be impossible to kill a knight for me:S

[HuntShot]

Oh and btw, did NGD do something with Feint??
I casted feint(2) 10 times on a conjurer lvl 50 and it only worked 1 time the other 9 times he resisted it....
Could you look this up? I dont think this is intended he onlyused Arcane Devotion and Enery Barrier

[Shwish]

Because no game has ever had metal golems before?


Guild Wars: Eye of the North?

EDIT: my sarcasm detector was turned off u.u

[Comp]

NGD - do you have plans to address the Pet Tree???

[Gawyn_Trakkand]

I am in favor of the current changes (still think hunter nerf was slightly harsh) though i would like clarification on whether knights being able to reduce most damage to 0 except for a barb who hit me max of 480 with fulminating and all his other buffs and unbuffed hits of 140.

[Comp]

I just did some dmg testing and a weasel hits harder than I do - I'm not kidding. I'm doing 85-95 damage on Trolls and if I push my dexterity up and use lvl 5 Sentinel and lvl 5 Lighness my damage goes up to 125-130.

Additionally - with how the changes in armor are - you can negate someone's damage to 0.

Cmon NGD....

I'll check back next amun update.

[Comp]

Hello Everyone!

Stage 11 is up on Amun!

Armor System fixes

BUG FIX: multi damage should be calculated properly
BUG FIX: Armor factor per class working as intended
New calculation for damage bonuses to make weapon damage bonus work always positively



Chilko

Now someone can reduce an individuals damage to zero. My weapon damage (even with one of my uber bows that have wicked nice damage gems in it are hitting like I'm having a pillow fight with a mob...and he's using a rock.

I'm frustrated to say the least since the class I play is a hunter - and at the moment I'm limited to simply tracking and camo'ing my allies. Not exactly fun play - especially when I may as well not equip arrows since I won't kill anyone to begin with.

I was completely optimistic and supportive of NGD through all of this - but it just seems changes are getting implemented now without much forethought.

I've also asked several times about the pet tree - because at the current state it is useless....anything going to happen here?

[Kaschka]

I am in favor of the current changes (still think hunter nerf was slightly harsh) though i would like clarification on whether knights being able to reduce most damage to 0 except for a barb who hit me max of 480 with fulminating and all his other buffs and unbuffed hits of 140.

hm a barb hit me with 2k dmg, i was using defensive stance and caution.
i thought thats too much.. but trolls 0 dmg well i like that.

This is not a pvp game but a rvr. Knigth sould be hard to kill. If a knigth has over 2k defense he shouldn't get any dmg.
don't forget that knigths won't be doing much dmg while using that buff.
And there are enough dots that will hurt enough.
Ok hunter has very few dots.. but hunters are a Defensive class thus u will need pp from your realm to be able to kill something...
You got good stalk now, support buffs for warriors ...

[_Enio_]

If the removal of the % damage cap that armor can reduce is intended, how do you plan to balance the armor values?

You might need a very well thought cap there where armor stacking starts to get less powerful (see the castspeed calculation).

How you will preven that you will have hunters do 0 damage, marks that will do maybe 100 and good geared ones that will do 200 even with tuned values (example of the problematics).

[metsie]

Chilko

Now someone can reduce an individuals damage to zero. My weapon damage (even with one of my uber bows that have wicked nice damage gems in it are hitting like I'm having a pillow fight with a mob...and he's using a rock.

I'm frustrated to say the least since the class I play is a hunter - and at the moment I'm limited to simply tracking and camo'ing my allies. Not exactly fun play - especially when I may as well not equip arrows since I won't kill anyone to begin with.

I was completely optimistic and supportive of NGD through all of this - but it just seems changes are getting implemented now without much forethought.

I've also asked several times about the pet tree - because at the current state it is useless....anything going to happen here?

And this new weapon system kills variety, med feels as fast as fast, +slow/med/fast really have almost the same damage, no point of using slow bow if fast bow hits only 20less, fast should hit FAST, slow should hit slow and hard and medium something between of those, not just all about the same without real difference.

So weak slow weapons = can't use them against targets with good armor, same low normals as with fast/med


If you want that people use 1 weapontype, then remove all and sell only initial weapons :P

[Shwish]

my guess is that the removal of the damage cap was an accidental variable change which was never intended. it makes no sense to remove it

And this new weapon system kills variety, med feels as fast as fast, +slow/med/fast really have almost the same damage, no point of using slow bow if fast bow hits only 20less, fast should hit FAST, slow should hit slow and hard and medium something between of those, not just all about the same without real difference.

So weak slow weapons = can't use them against targets with good armor, same low normals as with fast/med


i never understood why this change was made to be honest. it wasnt necessary to cripple slow weapons which in-turn screwed over all the people who invested alot of time and money into acquiring them.

[Bidinger]

Looks like I won't be using arrows at all if my damage will be super low anyway. I might as well just use spells. I guess this solves the problem of high repair costs, arrow costs, and spending 800 mana per minute with recharged arrows.


In all seriousness, though, I'll just wait until the next update to see what they change. My damage dropped by 60 per hit after this update (0 damage on buffed knights), which makes a total of about 150 for slow bows and 60 for fast ones.

NGD wants us to move to faster weapons, but what's the point if none of them do any damage? I might as well use a slow 35 to get the range so I can spam areas if my normals are going to be so unimportant no matter what I do.

[doppelapfel]

I dont like this further reduction of normal hits. Much too much. :thumb_down:

[_Enio_]

The no facing /phantom hits are as bad as before the "fix" :/ much no facing on knocks (esp. on kick and ambush) and on chasing.

[Yttrium]

So weak slow weapons = can't use them against targets with good armor, same low normals as with fast/med


I agree with this. The difference in weapon speed should have a higher damage difference.

[Lucky_Luke]

Hey! Archers! Wanna hear a joke? KILL THE FUCKIN KNIGHT! xD

Seriously now I'm not worried, I'm afraid of your next stages and I wonder how darn unuseful will be my marks. If this "update" will go live you will just introduce banking system of archers. ;)

2010 roadmap (deeply hidden by NGD)

Viewer discretion is advised... (xD)

1. nerf all classes
2. nerf everything else
3. fix bugs in the nerfs to nerf totally ALL!
4. Go to 1.

Yes, all I can do now in game, is just sit, laugh and die. ;)

And of course - good work!

IMPORTANT NOTE: we turned off a part of the armor system that dealt with minimum damage. you will see a lot of spells that yeld 0 damage please report those but don't be afraid :)

[Greyman_tle]

So many changes, cant remember whats gone b4 or whats been brought up :nunchaku: so if this has been mentioned/reasons given then, sry for the repeat.

When casting camo with a pet, the pet is dismissed (i remember this was introduced), which is fine..BUT hunter doesn't camo...spell goes into cd, chr appears normally and there is no camo icon/timer in the top-left.

Does seem a little harder to grind without a pet than it did b4, but not alot.

[NotScias]

I don't think right that a full buffed marks with passive dex, recharged, specialist and maneuver 5 should do 0's on a knight that is only under defensive stance, using epic bows (and magna lb too)...

Well to be short :
Improve armor only : OK
Reduce normals damage only : OK
Improve armor AND Reduce normals damage : Wrong

I seriously think that with the armor fix, you should undo that overall damage nerf that was not really needed anyways...

[Gabburtjuh]

Chilko

Now someone can reduce an individuals damage to zero. My weapon damage (even with one of my uber bows that have wicked nice damage gems in it are hitting like I'm having a pillow fight with a mob...and he's using a rock.

I'm frustrated to say the least since the class I play is a hunter - and at the moment I'm limited to simply tracking and camo'ing my allies. Not exactly fun play - especially when I may as well not equip arrows since I won't kill anyone to begin with.

I was completely optimistic and supportive of NGD through all of this - but it just seems changes are getting implemented now without much forethought.

I've also asked several times about the pet tree - because at the current state it is useless....anything going to happen here?

I like this comment, this is what i said 3 updates ago, it wasnt compost, but there are some ppl that were saying i had to stfu because it wasnt to bad, and compost was even happy with it, just like to point out most of the hunters that are going petless in horus are not liking this update, because for petless hunters 1 tree is lost, there simply isnt one other class that only has 1 usefull class specific tree, because they play in the setup NGD wants them to play, and there wont be any class harder to furfill its "role" in war as hunter after the update, especially since 80% will quit playing it due to the pathetic ability to acctually hurt someone more as a mob can >.>, i can just say +1 for this comment, and i join in the: "are you going to do anything with the pet tree" question

[UmarilsStillHere]

Fulm has 5 sec duration now? So basically enough time for 1 normal hit, maybe 2 with a faster wep and some As gear, basically its the same sort of thing as south cross, beast attack, and riposte, but its a buff. I dont see how that makes it an interesting spell in any way.

Maybe NGD should look into making situation spells (if its even possible on this game) for example you can only use it when you have recently blocked (would have some interesting spells for knights) or if you are on less than X% HP, or if you have a certain buff active, or already made X hits on the target etc etc.

And 0 damage hits? I havent tested and dont know what spells they need to gain that but basically you could have 100 hunters shooting a knight doing 0's as he does a dance? Seems nonsence to me.

[Jippy]

This little Dwarf really like's "0" damage hits - heheheheAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHBWAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHHAHHHHHBW AHAHAHAHHAHHHHAHAHAHAHAH

[Silent_Shadow]

I don't know if it's just me or any marks with serpent bite, but on Amun I shot mobs and people with serpent bite(3). The duration damage was 0 every time. Also, the last time I was on there was a bit after stage 9 was put up and serpent bite worked perfectly.

-SilentS

[doppelapfel]

I guess NGD is still working on warriors mainly, nerfs to archers that are caused by stat- and armor changing for warriors might be fixed later when they really deal with archers. This is at least what i hope...

[Ulti19]

Well we know that fights will last alot longer now xD

It is probably a bug and they will fix it. I can grind 100 mobs and not lose one hp point :) I doubt that is what they intended lol. On the other hand, knights sure can tank now ^^ If this is intended, I suggest make defensive stance have 95% damage removal completely not just weapon damage. That way a knight will tank insanley but do actually 0 damage on other players. Also, disabling and armor debuffs can fix this problem abit. Armor value actually is important now, alot more so than before anyways. This makes a shield actually valuable, as well as high level armor ^^ It just needs tweaks.

[Zas_]

Hmmm, i hope many steps are coming, because in the current state, petless hunter is just unable to do any serious harm with normals (it was hard with stage 10 and became very hard with stage 11).

You nerfed hunters a lot (speed, pet, spells, defense, normals, ...).

I don't think petless hunters are OP on Horus, but now on Amun, you made them unplayable (new spells are not enough to keep the fun imho).

Plus this new power system ....

And 0 dmg ....

That's just too much atm.

[chilko]

as I added to the original post... we turned off the min damage formula for testing purposes.

we found a lot of spells that where doing min damage because of a conceptual error in the armor system (DOTs for example)

[TheMessenger]

as I added to the original post... we turned off the min damage formula for testing purposes.

we found a lot of spells that where doing min damage because of a conceptual error in the armor system (DOTs for example)

I guess its because I dont understand programming but how does making people do 0s help with testing? :/

[chilko]

I guess its because I dont understand programming but how does making people do 0s help with testing? :/

it just does. we are debugging a system that has two formulas. We needed to remove one to verify the results of the other.

as always you should take AMUN as what it is, a development server with experimental stuff

[BigManOnCampus]

Hello Everyone!

Stage 11 is up on Amun!

Armor System fixes

BUG FIX: multi damage should be calculated properly

What does this mean?



New graphic model and variations for Liches.

Looks nice
http://jeremy.stoic-epicurean.com/pictures/Ades-update.jpg

New spawn animations

What does this mean?

Also, of note... I seem to no longer be casting a shadow while riding a horse on Amun: http://jeremy.stoic-epicurean.com/pictures/no-shadow.jpg

[Vaylos]

as I added to the original post... we turned off the min damage formula for testing purposes.

we found a lot of spells that where doing min damage because of a conceptual error in the armor system (DOTs for example)

Chilko, thanks a bunch for taking the time to clarify. I think some of us didn't realize what exactly removing the minimum damage entailed for what we'd see on our end in the damage values. I've been keeping up to date with each stage, and I'm really really liking what I'm seeing in all aspects.

Truly, the balancing, and interaction with the player base has, in my honest opinion, seen some very good progress maybe the best ever, and I do hope to see a continuation of this as the game grows and evolves. I know this level of interaction is not the most efficient, and it doesn't -always- need to take place, but for major changes and balances, I think it helps a lot that devs and testers are consistently on the same page like this, and that information flow is adequate in both directions. I think it really helps with ensuring a good quality update.

I haven't had much chance to hop on Amun since my time doesn't allow for much these days, but I am truly looking forward to the changes. And I do try to hop on when I can. I've also been trying to hop on Horus more often in anticipation for when everything goes live.

I'm pretty much completely in agreement with Compost on the changes to hunter. My main character is a hunter. However, I cannot speak for barbarian or warlock since my characters aren't yet high enough level to really do any significant testing.

Looking forward to seeing how things progress from here, and it's looking great so far!

[ncvr]

What does this mean?
On the live version, damage calculation for weapons with more than one dmg type (for example, the abyssal hammer) is bugged. This version fixed that bug.

What does this mean?
When people respawn at a save, there's a new animation instead of them just appearing there...I guess.

On the damage/armour changes: even though the reason for the 0 dmg hits is mostly because the maximum dmg mitigation limit was turned off, I still find it somewhat troubling that classes should be having their dmg mitigated this much. IMO, making 2 classes (barbarian and warlock) able to do dmg at all while everyone else takes a supportive/CC role is not the right way to go. It cripples solo play and small group battles and it's likely to significantly reduce the number of players playing classes other than the 2 damage dealing classes due to grinding difficulties and just not feeling they can do much by themselves.

[Klutu]

Just something Seperate that i would like to see implemented in the game..

Add 3 Slots that are seperate from The Quickbar too allow players to put Weapons/Arrows/Armours/Mounts

Reason..

When fighting If i wanna switch my weapon it's sometimes difficult to have weapons on 1 bar and your spells on the other.. this would make things alot easier

Posted a cheap image i did in Paint just showing a rough idea of what i mean :p

Yes i suck at paint xD

[Shwish]

Just something Seperate that i would like to see implemented in the game..

Add 3 Slots that are seperate from The Quickbar too allow players to put Weapons/Arrows/Armours/Mounts

Reason..

When fighting If i wanna switch my weapon it's sometimes difficult to have weapons on 1 bar and your spells on the other.. this would make things alot easier

Posted a cheap image i did in Paint just showing a rough idea of what i mean :p

Yes i suck at paint xD

+1

maybe TAB can cycle through them

[Immune]

Just something Seperate that i would like to see implemented in the game..

Add 3 Slots that are seperate from The Quickbar too allow players to put Weapons/Arrows/Armours/Mounts

Reason..

When fighting If i wanna switch my weapon it's sometimes difficult to have weapons on 1 bar and your spells on the other.. this would make things alot easier

Posted a cheap image i did in Paint just showing a rough idea of what i mean :p

Yes i suck at paint xD

This would not work for everyone because of different screen resolutions. I use 800 x 600, and the space you propose to put extra slots in is already occupied by my normal quick bar. (No I'm not making a paint picture like yours to show you :p) Basically, those slots would all be really tiny and shoved into the corner for me.

An alternate idea would be holding shift to bring up a secondary quick bar over your main one. This would be just as easy and would provide more than 3 slots to use.

[Mashu]

Well I just tested Amun
Still

Fumilating should be instant
Unstoppable madness - Still who would spend 220 mana for 10s of 40% resistance ? Make it at least 50% of 1st lvl, remember its only 10s for that mana !
Fix missing description for "cannot attack"
Something is wrong now, ALL barbs have feint(4) kick(4) and most if not all knights have Onslaught(5)
Aren't there any other good possibilities ? Maybe more points ? That's quite boring, one ultimate kick,feint setup. Also before we had all skills for free on 1st lvl after leveling tree, so I could use spirtual blow even that I did not plan to skill it. Not counting all resistances that are on 1st lvl already significant 10%. Shouldn't this be compensated somehow buy giving more tree development points ?
Good idea with additional bar that does not need switching.
I would like to see skills in bar first and at the same time skills at bar second which I can use for example by pressing alt+1 instead of 1.
Last level summon for conjurer. I think it should have crepy and awsome look.
I understand it took time to make him, but its pissing off players, robot with pot instead of head.
I agree with the concept of giving knight ultimate tanking skills for a short duration time, but they should not do much damage during that, instead they should be able to cast all sorts of CC effects.

[Mashu]

Seriously 10s for UM which is 2x Fulminating time that allows 1hit. So now UM is like for 2 hits now ?

Mana cost reduced from 400 to 300 and duration reduced 4x. So we need to spend 1200 mana instead of 400 to have the same duration ?

I don't care now it has shorter cool-down. Now I need to spend 1200 mana to be able to fight the same amount of time as before !!

NGD: This is a big mistake. Mana should be reduced significantly 4 or 3 times. This is very short effect and should not drain "half of" barbarians mana!!!

[Pimousse]

I agree, 10 sec is not enough. That's mean barbarian is able to catch his target in 10 sec, for kick and kill her or barbarian dead (no more mana and vulnerable to stun, knock ...).
But all ranged classes have tools to slowdown barbarian under madness. So no chance for barbarian to catch something ...
I don't know how 10 sec give a more dynamic game. 15 sec would be fine i think. 10 sec is just not enough...
Dynamic for barbarian ? Buff dynamic! More buff and shorter buff!

Anyway, what i don't like with Fulminating : I guess most of the barbarians will have kick (its already the case on horus). Why ? Because short UM involve this and Fulminating too since barbarian will have to kill the target during the first knock.

Yes i know, its rvr, we have mate ... But in rvr case, they are a lot of slowdown things too, making 10 sec UM not enough

[UmarilsStillHere]

Playing a barb is getting more and more like a SM mage, 90% buff management ... The other 10% is kick-feint spamming.

[v0rt3x]

But u don´t have enough mana for buffing and spamming the spells.

NGD, please take care about the mana costs of all classes in order to the spells and his duration.

[Topogigio_BR]

Playing a barb is getting more and more like a SM mage, 90% buff management ... The other 10% is kick-feint spamming.

At least you are not in marks situation, 50% cc, to avoid being kicked, 50% to try to do damage, 100% mana management.

[UmarilsStillHere]

At least you are not in marks situation, 50% cc, to avoid being kicked, 50% to try to do damage, 100% mana management.

Its more fun than a barb, and marks have far more skills to play with since your entire mana supply dosnt go on buffing. RA can be problamatic as it all all but stops your in-combat mana regen so you should think before shooting anything.

Either way, its better than either:

A, Buff, kick or feint, kill one guy,
B, Buff, kick or feint, kill one guy, die under enemy fire,
C, Buff, zergling charge where everyone is running away so the ranged class's do most of the work anyway,
D, Buff, die.

No other class needs to spend over 1k mana on buffs (cept arguably knights) just to do anything that resembles what the subclass is ment to be, and thats just stupid.

[Barya]

NGD wats with you guys?

With 45 secs UM i even had a chance against warlock - he cannot outlast it fastly and i reach him with spr5+ons5 and even when used both properly with mana presaved. And Im talking only about escaping open battle - 20-25m average distance.

I could hit locks at least once!

Now its useless, outlast 10seconds by slow is SO EASY.

FAST SOLUTION<<
Make UM long buff (90secs, CD=30) against next X CCs (10 or 20 find this number!).
And if rangers want CC barb THEY SHOULD CC.
If they dont want CC, they always can ASK FOR WARRIORS MS then, thats a team game.

Guys, FIX CONSTITUTION<<
Which SUPPOSED to reduce time of CC effects.

[Shwish]

Guys, FIX CONSTITUTION<<
Which SUPPOSED to reduce time of CC effects.

:facepalm3:
its supposed to add CC resistance not reduce the time of a CC

[blood-raven]

Its more fun than a barb, and marks have far more skills to play with since your entire mana supply dosnt go on buffing. RA can be problamatic as it all all but stops your in-combat mana regen so you should think before shooting anything.


que? if only it would just stop mana regeneration, it uses 40 mana/shot at lvl 5, thats a bit more than just 'stop mana regeneration', besides if a barb buffs up and times well he can be a killing machine, no need for xtreem skills, marks are the only class who are punished for using normals.

another thing: will u pls remove the mob spells? i don't get your logic after it, what's fun about being stunned by a golem when you ride by on your horse, what's fun about being killed by rake after you killed the mob or what is fun about being trowed to the ground by aquantis trust, i don't want there efectiveness lowered, i want them REMOVED

[necroferos]

as I added to the original post... we turned off the min damage formula for testing purposes.

we found a lot of spells that where doing min damage because of a conceptual error in the armor system (DOTs for example)


This mean that Sultar's Devouring Mass and Summon Lightning will do better damage? Because on Ra, the damage is very low.

[_Enio_]

NGD wats with you guys?

With 45 secs UM i even had a chance against warlock - he cannot outlast it fastly and i reach him with spr5+ons5 and even when used both properly with mana presaved. And Im talking only about escaping open battle - 20-25m average distance.

I could hit locks at least once!

Now its useless, outlast 10seconds by slow is SO EASY.

FAST SOLUTION<<
Make UM long buff (90secs, CD=30) against next X CCs (10 or 20 find this number!).
And if rangers want CC barb THEY SHOULD CC.
If they dont want CC, they always can ASK FOR WARRIORS MS then, thats a team game.

Guys, FIX CONSTITUTION<<
Which SUPPOSED to reduce time of CC effects.

Exactly, its a team game. One dispell, one Ons will fuck over the locks slow. If you just want some tools no one has a chance against you are wrong on discussing balance.

The bigger problem is manaburns and drains which leave you perma dizzy after the first few seconds as you cant counter them as melee and recovering from them is less aviable and comes with a high cost for all involved. However we should wait for judging that until mana aviability has been revised (which ngd stated they will do once design is done and bugs are fixed).

[Shwish]

another thing: Will u pls remove the mob spells? I don't get your logic after it, what's fun about being stunned by a golem when you ride by on your horse, what's fun about being killed by rake after you killed the mob or what is fun about being trowed to the ground by aquantis trust, i don't want there efectiveness lowered, i want them removed

+1
.....................

[Klutu]

I don't see why Everyones complaining about Barb.. - I can understand the change to UM it is a pretty big alteration to our class I'm personally fine with it.

If UM was to be raised I'd say 12 seconds max - The mana cost is perfectly fine - Remember SC monkeys were throwing 200 mana every 6 seconds

You do not require kick to be able to compete with a enemy barb - Just takes more Timing of your other CC's & if your a barb who doesn't use CC it's your own fault.

UM being 10 seconds doesn't make you vulnerable if not timed properly.. It makes all Barbs vulnerable

[Kaixo]

You do not require kick to be able to compete with a enemy barb - Just takes more Timing of your other CC's & if your a barb who doesn't use CC it's your own fault.

UM being 10 seconds doesn't make you vulnerable if not timed properly.. It makes all Barbs vulnerable
The problem is with ranged classes, not with other warriors.
Kick is the best CC vs one enemy, now probably more people will use it.

[Kaixo]

as I added to the original post... we turned off the min damage formula for testing purposes.

we found a lot of spells that where doing min damage because of a conceptual error in the armor system (DOTs for example)
¿What kind of testing and feedback do you need?

[Zordak]

Level 5 imps on a giant toltar (normal at lvl50) deal 0 damage per hit.
Zombies damage is slightly better.
Testing both on giant ignean gargoyles (easy at lvl50) yields similar results, just the zombies damage is close to 0 as well.

Any chance we can get summon damage displayed in the log? It is very hard to tell if actually all 5 imps and zombies do proper hits right now: The numbers are super-imposed (zeros...). Yet it still feels like some hits are missing. A log would certainly help debugging and give us a basis for damage balance discussions.

The bug requiring to reselct your target after summoning remains for some of the spells. Working on the summon tree seems a nice opportunity to purge it; it has become a lot more annoying with the cast-during-fight changes.

Overall I like the idea of having group summons with less damage.
I think though, youre missing the opportunity to give the spelltree a support option - either by introducing damage-free summons that assist allies with buffs/heals or by disabling enemies with CC.
Or even something simple like a wall summon, a blocking obstacle with some hp and duration. The possibilities of summoning are poorly exploited since the trees design paradigm has not changed at all.

I really like the new zombies and the lich shaman design.

Z.

[UmarilsStillHere]

I agree that as well as damage dealer summons healers, debuffers, cc'er would all be a nice addition.

[mr_scsi]

Or even something simple like a wall summon, a blocking obstacle with some hp and duration.

That would be really handy just after a fort door gives way to buy that precious extra few seconds to rally........

Or casting one BEHIND enemy on a bridge so they cant run away........

Or casting on in the middle of the green zerg to split their defences........

I can think of endless possibilities for this type of spell and I think they would all add to the fun-o-meter...... suggestion thread?

[Topogigio_BR]

Instead of imps and zombies doing the same job, zombies could act as a trap that will be ploted by conjures and only triggered if some enemy passes it, with a 240 sec duration without being triggered and same time as actual zombies when triggered.

[Zordak]

That would be really handy just after a fort door gives way to buy that precious extra few seconds to rally........

Or casting one BEHIND enemy on a bridge so they cant run away........

Or casting on in the middle of the green zerg to split their defences........

I can think of endless possibilities for this type of spell and I think they would all add to the fun-o-meter...... suggestion thread?

Never miss a chance to quote yourself. (http://regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?p=184509#post184509)
Soon got it third birthday \o/

Z.

[brammie2118]

And stage 12:
http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?p=1129154#post1129154