Balance? WZ Boss Amus and Rings

[Felina]

There comes more and more wz-boss amulets and rings in circulation.
Who have such a good thing have certainly a big advantage in the warzone.
Now there are players which have 2 rings and one amu.
They can make twice as much dmg than players without these rings or amus.
In my opinion it would be a little bit more balancing if you can wear just one wz-boss ring or amu or just one dragonamu...

to the memory the amus have:
- 250 hp
- 10 intelligence, or 10 dexterity, or 10 strength

Dragonamu:
- 250 hp
- 50 dmg (fire or ice or lightningdmg)

and the rings:
- 34 (fire or ice or blunt)
- 6 strength, 34%tc or 175 mana

- 6 concentration
- 34% tc, or evering: 175mana

[doppelapfel]

Id prefer them having a noticible difference to the questitems everyone can get but not being that op and being useful for all classes.
For example:
Dragon amu
+20 dmg (best dmg amu: 6-10 fire or +8 afaicr)
+50 mana
+150 hp
So it would be like a better mix of the royal amulet and a dmg amu. Also useful for mages who dont use normals. Drop chance could be increased then.

Boss rings (dmg):
20 dmg (best dmgrings are 15-25 as far as i can remember, no real difference in that point but also other boni)
+5% as and cs
other rings could be:
20 dmg + 100 mana
20 dmg + 130 hp

So they would be still the best rings you can get, useful for all classes (as for slow attacking warriors, cs for mages, dmg and as for archers, mana is good for everyone...) but not making a that great difference to normal equipped players in dmg as now.

[Gabburtjuh]

sure, like mages need more usefull bonusses while they can have bigger, and on all parts usefull bonusses, and mages could always go sm, or make an alt, its just like dropping the thork hammer while you dont have a knight, get something thats usefull for you or grind a knight >.>, since realms are going to have allthesame quest items anyway, every class will have a pretty big choise in jewelery, and its not like they drop to much anyway(in alsius atleast)

[doppelapfel]

sure, like mages need more usefull bonusses while they can have bigger, and on all parts usefull bonusses, and mages could always go sm, or make an alt, its just like dropping the thork hammer while you dont have a knight, get something thats usefull for you or grind a knight >.>, since realms are going to have allthesame quest items anyway, every class will have a pretty big choise in jewelery, and its not like they drop to much anyway(in alsius atleast)
There are only very few sm mages and you cant really take them into this discussion, imo they are like an error in the system. SM is totally useless for 99% of mages cause they can play better with spells, the 1% have an awesome staff with many dmg and as boni and usually any bossring or dragonamu or even multiple. All other mages dont care about this stuff. They cant do anything with +dmg (which is the most frequently bonus on weapons) or attack speed. If i would loot a boss staff i would sell it, if i would loot any bossbow i would be happy and use it for my marks, its not like a mage looting a warriorweapon. What boni are you talking about? I only care about three: cs, mana and hp, maybe also konz. Other classes can have a use of those too and of 6 different dmgtypes, attack speed and hit chance. And my mainpoint was not making mages itemwhores or anything but making all classes more equal effected by gear. Marks fe get an insane bonus of the dragonamu or bossrings, there are plenty of them using the amu and one or two rings together with a good bow dealing twice the dmg a normal equipped marks could ever do. Many ppl start a marks after having one or more lvl 50 chars and getting good stuff by trading just to have an op char.

[Shwish]

They can make twice as much dmg than players without these rings or amus.


*exaggeration*

[Minorian]

*exaggeration*

Not in some cases for marksmen. Example Enio, Minamoto, and I forget the name of that other Gelf im thinking of. Often times theyll hit more than double.

[Gabburtjuh]

they most of the time use double buffs and lbs, not to mention maybe specialist etc, and maybe conj buffs/owth

[doppelapfel]

Well if its 2x normal dmg or 1,7x normal dmg, its a too big difference. A good skilled player looses against an average or bad skilled players just because of gear. :thumb_down:

[Seher]

*exaggeration*

200 normals <=> 250 normals
Now, against a target with high armour (buffed knight/marks):
50 normals <=> 100 normals.

[Gabburtjuh]

your doing it wrong, 200 normals with a lvl 50 marks, thats a joke right, my lvl 34 marks does those hits.

[doppelapfel]

your doing it wrong, 200 normals with a lvl 50 marks, thats a joke right, my lvl 34 marks does those hits.
He wasnt talking about concrete numbers but the proportions. :facepalm3:

[Gabburtjuh]

those matter here, since its kinda hard to double 400 normals, alot harder as it is to double 200 normals

[Seher]

200 normals <=> 250 normals
Now, against a target with high armour (buffed knight/marks):
50 normals <=> 100 normals.

^ A hunter's point of view.

And by the way, you can have way more damage than just 50 more. Cool rings, nice bow, and you've got 100 additional damage.

And 500 normals <=> 700 normals (as buffs influence items' bonuses, too) means 200 <=> 400 on heavily buffed targets.

And yes, this isn't about precise numbers, it's about the armour calculation which you haven't understood so far obviously. Even 20 damage more is quite something if your damage already is 20.

[V1r14]

%-based buffs and passives are the reason why its op.
The DPS is also going up like crazy.

How about giving each dmg-ring a slight penalty of about -3% as and dragon-amulets -5%? This doesn't sound that high, boss-jewelry remains outsstanding attractive like before, but wearing a hole set meant a penalty of 11% as.

Quite fair in my opinion. ;)

[doppelapfel]

%-based buffs and passives are the reason why its op.
The DPS is also going up like crazy.

How about giving each dmg-ring a slight penalty of about -3% as and dragon-amulets -5%? This doesn't sound that high, boss-jewelry remains outsstanding attractive like before, but wearing a hole set meant a penalty of 11% as.

Quite fair in my opinion. ;)

Proportions of damage increase and as loss would be the same while wearing many of them compared to wearing only one, i dont get that.

[V1r14]

The proportions would be the same, thats true.
But a penalty caused through multiple items will be more noticeable than wearing only one item.
3% is the same like loosing 1hit every 33th in your sequence.
In contrast, 11% equals a missed hit every 9 hits.
However your dps remains the same. Making a 2nd ring useless isn't in my intention.

[doppelapfel]

The proportions would be the same, thats true.
But a penalty caused through multiple items will be more noticeable than wearing only one item.
3% is the same like loosing 1hit every 33th in your sequence.
In contrast, 11% equals a missed hit every 9 hits.
However your dps remains the same. Making a 2nd ring useless isn't in my intention.
Dragonamu and Bossrings should stay better than everything you can get by quests but not as op as now. A dragonamu might be anyhow balanced for a barb cause they hit more than 500 unbuffed anyway so its less than 10% of their base dmg but for a archer doing 200 unbuffed its 25% dmg more compared to a less lucky player, thats unfair.

[V1r14]

Another option: making the dmg-rings similar to krontarons ring, but this requires fixing kront's ring. :P

Tenax Amu: 250HP +xx% fire dmg
fury ring: +x% fire dmg +6 strength

[Signatus]

Is this such a pressing matter, I mean, is it that overwhelmingly bad that some characters have outstanding dmg abilities on RvR? In PvP it might be near impossible to defeat them but that's not the purpose of the game. Furthermore, are they that many?

Honestly, for what I've experienced so far, those items are extremely rare and even though they give an upper hand they are not decisive in large zergs... I meant wars! Besides, they always end up being somewhat a curse, there's always loads of drama around an amu or ring bearer... xD

And don't nerf something I would like to try myself, never got the hands on one! xD

[Seher]

Honestly, for what I've experienced so far, those items are extremely rare and even though they give an upper hand they are not decisive in large zergs...

They are. They determine your fun. :P It can be quite annoying if 2 marksmen hit each other, but one of them deals twice as much damage.

And don't nerf something I would like to try myself, never got the hands on one! xD

I got, it isn't worth it, you feel like cheating. :P

Anyway, nerfs aren't even necessary here, I mean, there really should be other rings and amulets, why should we only have level 30 quest items? ;P
New rings/amulets that are easier to obtain could balance this as well.

[Kaixo]

The cast speed of items was reduced 1/2 according to the new formula.
I think the damage and attack velocity of items should be reduced to 1/2.
Also damage bonus depends a lot on attack velocity, the bonus should be variable with weapon speed.

[Minorian]

The cast speed of items was reduced 1/2 according to the new formula.
I think the damage and attack velocity of items should be reduced to 1/2.
Also damage bonus depends a lot on attack velocity, the bonus should be variable with weapon speed.

The nerf to CS was needed, the nerf to damage isnt really.

[doppelapfel]

The nerf to CS was needed, the nerf to damage isnt really.
Archers and warriors are allowed to get an unfair high advantage by gear, locks are not? Imo all those dragon- and bossitems should be only slightly better than normal stuff everyone can get, its hard to do this with bossweapons cause there are so many different boni on weapons that also the stuff dropped by normal mobs can be imbalanced and of course bossitems should not be worse than those but at least rings and amulets could be balanced. look at the dragon amu, it has 2,5 times the hp bonus of the best hpamulet you can get by a quest and 5! times the dmg of the best dmg amus.

[Signatus]

I got, it isn't worth it, you feel like cheating. :P.

I'll take my chances.

Because with all honesty they are not more unbalanced then facing an adversary with complete dragon armour set, or high quality platinum box weapons, or mag weapons on AS sets, or knights loaded with gear from the +7 constitution drop times (I miss those), or whichever combination you can come across (and there are some pretty scary).

Now I tell you what and dragon amu doesn't do, and that is, all else being equal, a marks with a dragon amu can't beat an equivalent marks receiving timed knight auras. It's a silly example but point is it is a co-op game.

Furthermore, if you are sick of it give it to me! xD

[Seher]

I don't possess it, I just borrowed it for some days. Along with uber rings, my bow already is very good. 500-600 normal hits from a hunter, yay. (dirty fight ftw) But that was some updates ago, don't know what it would look like now.
Initially I borrowed the amulet for about a week, but I returned it after a few days :S (And stopped playing for half a year, hehe)

Now I tell you what and dragon amu doesn't do, and that is, all else being equal, a marks with a dragon amu can't beat an equivalent marks receiving timed knight auras. It's a silly example but point is it is a co-op game.

... and an overstuffed knight cannot beat a "normal" one that uses ao1, etc. For sure.

It isn't cheating, of course, but I felt like I had an unfair edge over other players. Especially as I played a hunter - hunters are probably the most gear-based class.

[Minorian]

It isn't cheating, of course, but I felt like I had an unfair edge over other players. Especially as I played a hunter - hunters are probably the most gear-based class.

Id say marksmen are the most affected, due to RA being a % of all damage, including all bonuses and jewelry.

[tikinho]

After that you gonna want the super boss weapons to give stats close to the store bought etc... Its a realm vs realm game it doesnt matter that someone in the zerg makes 50-100 more dmg per hit.

[Minorian]

After that you gonna want the super boss weapons to give stats close to the store bought etc... Its a realm vs realm game it doesnt matter that someone in the zerg makes 50-100 more dmg per hit.

I agree. It only starts to matter when Enio hits 600's and shit :superpusso:

[Nekoko]

I agree. It only starts to matter when Enio hits 600's and shit :superpusso:

Simple solution, don't get hit my Enio :p Or HIT HIM BACK!! xD

[Minorian]

Or HIT HIM BACK!! xD

But hes scary! D:

[Knekelvoeste]

Dragonamu and Bossrings should stay better than everything you can get by quests but not as op as now. A dragonamu might be anyhow balanced for a barb cause they hit more than 500 unbuffed anyway so its less than 10% of their base dmg but for a archer doing 200 unbuffed its 25% dmg more compared to a less lucky player, thats unfair.


Lol try hitting 500+ now unbuffed its more around 500- xD

[fritsz]

Lol try hitting 500+ now unbuffed its more around 500- xD

Thats more then a buffed knight/hunter or a normal geared buffed marksman:p

[V1r14]

Maybe it's coming inappropriate, but:
The mage-rlm of Ignis isn't having any mana/int-rings or amu.
I kinda find it unfair that Dean isn't dropping any manarings. :imstupid:

My Suggestion:
Ignis: 25 Fire +6 conc
Ignis: 150mana +25% spellfocus (hc only suits classes which depends on normhits. However focus suits every class.)

Syrtis: 25 lightning +6 conc
Syrtis: 150mana +25% spellfocus

Alsius: 25 ice +6 str ( ice-type for cold-harsh alsius, also str)
Alsius: 150mana +25% spellfocus

These changes would make both hc-rings of alsius and ignis more attractive, compared to the ones before.
Dmg-rings have been slightly reduced, so that:
Nether of the rings would make a warrior op (ignean fury).
Nether of the rings would make a marks op (undead touch).
Rings 4 mages are available :>

Another Idea: krontarons Ring: 15-24 piercing dmg (like DS-rings). or 5% protection against piercing. :P

[I'm not having any bossjewelry , except kronts ring, changing all of these that way looks better on the records :imstupid:]

[Gabburtjuh]

not really, i hit 400med, that 500- is slow or very slow, ofc you can say not everyone has a magn wep, but ive tried some stuff, my lvl 41 med mace with +13 base +15 blunt does around 280-350(not really reliable with 144-200 base) but its still MED, instead of slow/vslow

[doppelapfel]

Lol try hitting 500+ now unbuffed its more around 500- xD
My lvl 35 barbarian hits around 370 unbuffed on blue mobs, passiv strength and dmg bonus lvl 1, a lvl 50 barb should be able to do 500 then.