New invasions mechanics

[chilko]

Dear players
As you'll see on monday with the Warmasters update we've made some changes to the invasion system.

We wanted to tell you about this changes so you can check them out and debate during the weekend.

What do we want to achieve with this changes:
1) To gather a bigger amount of users on the same location to help realms organize themselves.
2) to avoid camping by increasing numbers of defenders (we remind you that killing enemies in saves means no XP, loss of RP and it doesn't count for the daily adventures)
3) We want invasions to happen more frequently. Also, we need to have many battles at the same time in different locations so we don't overload the server and client.
4) Avoid a single realm to be constantly harassed.

solutions that were implemented:

1) and 2): One and only central save

3): New invasion mechanics
• The gate will be vulnerable when the realm looses control of all its fortifications for 15 minutes (it doesn't matter if those where taken by a single opposing realm or both of them)
• If the defending realm retakes one fortification the vulnerability ends.
• if the gate was broken and the defending realm retakes one fortification the gates will re-appear.
• maximum invasion time will be of 2 hours.

4) New invulnerability rule: If a realm looses all its gems it will become invulnerable and its fortifications will not be able to be taken unless they take back or steal a gem or one of the opposing realms visits the dragon. (now the invulnerable realm can take a fully offensive stance!)

Please don't take this changes as final as we plan to continue making modifications to invasions until we get them right and we need to test changes with live server's population. Think of this as an event ;)

Regards,

Chilko

EDIT: health of the realm gate has been greatly reduced too

[Znurre]

Well, I do think these are all improvements compared to what we have today.
However, as I see it, the warzone gate is still a great problem for spontaneous invasions since it creates one hot spot where enemies can defend, which will always mean that the attacking realm will need to outnumber the defending one to even stand a chance.
It also creates a lot of lag and puts strain on the server.

EDIT: I just read that you also reduced the warzone gate health, that is a good move, although I am not sure if that will be enough.
I will wait until I tried it out and give more opinions then.

[Miraculix]

A few remarks:

Re-appearing gates after taking back even 1 fortification?

It sounds like it will be impossible to invade, at least on Horus. Since the introduction of the so-called "gem GPS" it is almost impossible to take a gem outside unless you have a huge zerg with you. This makes taking gems out a rather slow process. Now with this new feature, it will be almost impossible to take the gems since the invaders need to be able to keep the forts AND take out gems at the same time - almost impossible for Horus numbers.

About the invulnerability:

I fear this will instead force the realm into a state of apathy, not an offensive stance. We've already seen this happen with Alsius on Horus - they just go grinding alts. If a realm has lost all it's gems it is quite possible that (especially with these new features) they were heavily outnumbered. Removing potential RvR-hours from their gameplay (that is what invulnerability will do) will make the situation worse for them and potentially frustrate them, fast...

I like the one-save-per-realm in WZ idea, a lot, and I also like the fact that gates are easier to break now, this is a change that was long overdue, again speaking from Horus invasion experience only.

[VandaMan]

1) y 2): One and only central save

I'm confused as to how this helps. Doesn't this focus action to more specific areas, while you're trying to spread it over more area to help server performance? Will definitely help encourage premium mount sales though...

(it doesn't matter if those where taken by a single opposing realm or both of them)

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I think it may kill normal fortwars outside of invasions. During a long fight between 2 realms, 3 or 4 players from the third realm can easily grab the other forts and start the timer just out of boredom, and pull all the action away from the real fight (at least on horus.) This means we'll all have to leave the main fight to take back empty forts routinely.


• if the gate was broken and the defending realm retakes one fortification the gates will re-apear.

Does this mean once you've been invaded you can basically lock the invaders inside your realm?

4) New invulnerability rule: If a realm looses all its gems it will become invulnerable and its fortifications will not be able to be taken unless they take back or steal a gem or one of the opposing realms visits the dragon. (now the invulnerable realm can take a fully offensive stance!)

To me this invulnerability rule is a terrible terrible idea. It pretty much signals that all war outside of invasions is irrelevant. It also takes away the choice of the other realms to fight who they want to.

Overall I like that invasions are being rethought. However I think a lot of these proposed changes may be well fit for the population of Ra, but not horus.

[Mattdoesrock]

I agree with Mira.

If a realm becomes invunerable, where is the motivation to take an offensive stance?

Sometimes a realm can be without ANY gems for over a week. Some people could see this as a free grinding week. They know they're not going to be needed in war - that their own war zone area will see less action, so they can grind in peace.

Not many people have enough "realm pride" to motivate them enough to make a concerted effort to retake their gems.

If this invunerability is to stay - players need to be motivated to retake their gems. Current invasion rewards are not enough to do this on their own.

It also takes away the choice of the other realms to fight who they want to.

This too.

[tikinho]

OK lets imagine Syrtis makes Ignis gate in danger.
Syrtis makes four parties:
1) for guarding Menirah;
2) for guarding Samal;
3) for guarding Shaanarid;
4) for breaking Ignis gates.

Ignis leaves the gates without defence. The Syrtis gates party breaks the gates and goes for the gems. Ignis goes for one of their fortifications with all of their online players and takes the fort, that means the gates will re-appear. Syrtis won't be able to take the gems out. Syrtis has to take again the fortification that all online Ignis players will guard, to hold it and the rest of the fortifications again for 15 minutes, and to break the gate again, to get the gems out?
Seems pretty impossible for me even harder than the invasions before.
Also if Alsius wants to cooperate with Ignis, that are being invaded all it takes is to bring all Alsius online people to one fortification kill all guarding it Syrtis + guards and let one of the Ignis capture the fort while the rest of the Ignis are fighting at the gate or at other fortification.

[Kitsuni]

Rather than invulnerability, I would prefer that a new fort level be added (level 5), that cannot be reached with the normal upgrades. The forts would be guarded by a mini-dragon or some other powerful creature (not lame superguards that do nothing) that would need to be killed in order to capture it. When a realm loses all of its gems, the final upgrade level would become available, giving them the defensive advantage, and allowing them to have more offensive power due to the lack of need to guard home forts. This way taking their forts would be unlikely, but still possible. Perhaps the reward for taking those forts could be even greater for enemies. This upgrade would also be available on enemy territory, helping to get that gem back!

[theotherhiveking]

Once the warmasters are in, they should be able to teleport other players inside

[Jippy]

You guys are forgetting - 2 become a Whoremaster u have 2 kill ppl - the best way to kill ppl is by taking forts and hopefully invade - rape - and pillage... :lighten:

[Aasiora-Leif]

Bad bad bad. not liking any of these changes except for having one alter for each respective realm in the wz. These changes that you propose will make invasions nearly impossible. As many people said above, all the defending realm has to do is retake a fort and camp it, trapping the zerg inside. With what you propose, we would have to designate fort guard players and even with guards, the power of a full zerg can easily overrun ONE fort and camp it. As it is right now, realms need to invade during inactive times in order to get a gem (invasion attempts during active times are nearly impossible). With the Warmaster update, invasion attempts during inactive hours might even be hopeless.

[_Arwen_]

As long as they are well documented and actually work as the documentation says, any rules you come up with are a step up from the past couple years...

Making a realm invulnerable is a bad idea in my opinion. Not everyone cares about gems at every moment they are playing. No one likes to fight the same realm over and over. By making a realm's forts invulnerable you're eliminating all focus on fun and forcing it to invasion, invasion, invasion... A better idea would to be to make it so they can't be invaded but forts can still be taken. Its essentially the same as what you're doing with the one exception that if Alsius has no gems and Ignis is tired of fighting Syrtis, Ignis can go to Alsius and play with them for a while instead.

One central save??? Bad, bad, bad idea. Here's why... With the removal of gold-rentable horses, the nerfs to onslaught, the removal of most speed skills from the game, and the nerfs of conjurers the game has become more about the run to the actual battle then about the battle itself. If you insist on doing this, make conjurers worthy of their job description once again.

[Edit]
In addition, realm invulnerability will actually backfire on you because the realm that is invulnerable won't go on the offense, instead they'll just grind in peace, free of any worries. So to add to my suggestion of just disallowing invasions on them, you should give them a penalty to XP gain if any of their forts are taken, 10% for each fort taken and 25% for a castle (only when they have no gems).

[Kyrottimus]

A better idea would to be to make it so they can't be invaded but forts can still be taken.

This. +1 .....

[Ulti19]

my answer is in yellow

.
• if the gate was broken and the defending realm retakes one fortification the gates will re-appear.

I love all the other ideas alot, but i think this one will break the mechanic. Basically all you have to do now to defend your gem is not be at the gate defending from the attackers but let them reach gate and keep retaking, trell, aggers, imp, trell over and over because if they break gate, all the defenders have to do is not fight the enemy inside, but trap them inside instead by retaking one fort, which is much easier than fighting an army. Also can a regained gate be broken from inside by the enemy?

Also, with the invulnerable forts, alsius sometimes has been invaded and gemless for a month. Not being able to fight at all 9 forts would reduce the fun of war i think abit. I agree with Arwen that they should be capturable, but maybe can't invade, allowing the defenders to be still agressive while at the same time giving the same opportunity for forts as now.Regards,

Chilko

EDIT: health of the realm gate has been greatly reduced too

[Klutu]

Still doesn't make Invasions interesting enough for me to care about trying it.

Though if your trying to spread the War around the Warzone ill always support that.

Invasions too me will always be a flop in Regnum. Id rather see the Great Walls torn down and spread the war out even more across the land.

[Syd_Vicious]

I like the idea of a single central save for the realm. In Alsius territory people rarely use Trelle because it is a death trap and Imp save is only routinely used for grinding or castle defense.

I also like that the gate has less health, but what is going to happen with the regen rate? Is it going to increase, decrease or stay the same?

Have you thought about putting the Gems in the Cities? I think showdowns in the major outlying cities would be badass. Put them in mini warmaster shrines within a city to denote their importance. Currently new players just see floating gems out in the middle of no where, with no importance attributed to them until an invasion occurs or they are informed by the veteran player base.

What about making the Gem caster immune to the affects of friendly spells, but turning off the Gem GPS? This would allow for the caster to run without the whole enemy realm knowing where they are, yet prevent the invading realm from just using multiple hunters to stalker the gems outside.

What about instead of just the vulnerability ending and the gate coming back, put the amount of outside guards at the gate that were at the fortification retaken? Ie. someone takes back one of their forts, they get two regular guards (4 if the castle is retaken and the guards would be lvl 4 if the fort taken back was leveled up) at the gate in addition to the regular gate guards. Its not much help in an overwhelming odds fight, but it can add an extra dimension to getting out of the realm. The current system of guards showing up before the gate goes down, in a fight where the invading force outnumbers the defending force, is completely flawed. All the current system does is prolong the time it takes the enemy to get to the gate. It does not typically result in the death of members of the invading realm. They are kind of pointless. This would also encourage a rival realm that has hunters trying to go in to steal a gem through camo, to keep hold of a fort.

Just some other ideas.

[Yttrium]

I don't think that doing it right will be possible by just tweaking the current mechanics. Invasions lack casual elements, but trying to make invasions themselves more casual seems like the wrong direction.

What I might try:

Move the gem pedestals to the forts and put an empty one in the castle. Proclaim that one gem in any pedestal will invoke an ancient magic that makes the realm gate invulnerable. This is why the forts are in such odd positions -- they have to be for the magic to work.

Each realm starts with two gems, one in each fort. After stealing a gem, you have the option to put it in any empty pedestal or in a slot on the portal. If you have all six gems, you can move gems from fortifications to the portal for a dragon wish (making your own gate vulnerable while the gems are in transit.)

To make an enemy realm's gate vulnerable, you have to steal any gems they have in any fortifications -- and keep them from stealing one back. If the gate is destroyed, putting a gem in any fortification will restore it and make it invulnerable again.

Something like this would generate wars at many different places. Whatever you do, I would try and do it without any timers.

[Vaylos]

I've stated ideas on invasions in the past. I think Bois made some great suggestions to improve invasions long ago as well.


One of my ideas is basically the dragon wish choices alone are not enough impetus to make people -want- to invade. I think further impetus is needed for more frequent invasions.

1) Making the door easier will help for sure.

2)Each gem should have an inherent(small) bonus given. It could be a damage boost, defense boost, magic boost, it could be small xp boost, something to give a reason for holding the gems alongside getting all of the gems to open the portal. Each gem should have a different bonus.

3) Wishes: I think there is room for more creativity with the wishes. As it stands now, the XP Bonus is the only real reasonable wish. The wishes which impose malus are not really worth it IMO. Some ideas for wishes could be more frequent drop rates, faster boss respawn times, free equipment repair, others have had ideas for wishes as well i'm sure.


I'm going to also echo other player concerns about re-capturing a fort while the enemy is inside the realm being able to trap the invaders. Will recapture trap them? Or will it be considered a failed invasion and they get "booted" out of the realm automatically?

One idea on that: If enemy gets the gates down, and get inside, and the defenders get a fort back, the gate is restored, enemy is booted out. But, if the enemy has possession of a gem before they can retake a fort, the gate will remain down until the gem is recaptured from the enemy. The gate will stay down until A) The gem is recaptured by the defenders or B) The enemy gets the gem to their portal. I think that would be fair and logical.


On the fort invulnerability for a realm without gems: I think I might see the logic, that not having to worry about defending, we could go strictly offensive, however I don't think that will work in actuality. Not enough people have pride in their realm to go full offensive. I think a lot of people will spend time grinding or boss hunting. The threat of attacks is one of the reasons we band together and fight.

Instead of invulnerability, I say let the forts be captured, but the gates cannot be put in danger for the realm that has no gems. It accomplishes the same overall goal, but still lets us have fun defending our forts.

[Kyrottimus]

3) Wishes: I think there is room for more creativity with the wishes. As it stands now, the XP Bonus is the only real reasonable wish. The wishes which impose malus are not really worth it IMO. Some ideas for wishes could be more frequent drop rates, faster boss respawn times, free equipment repair, others have had ideas for wishes as well i'm sure.

+1. The options that are available to vote for are very anti-climactic for such end-game content.

Maybe keep the current voting system and dragon-wishes, but also for those who visit the dragon, have the dragon give them all riches (after all, we know through dragon lore that they hoard loot like crazy!)

Could be some unique items/armor/jewely/etc. that would not be BETTER than anything else currently available (so as not to upset balance) but something unique and different that would be a nice bonus to make current dragon wish options not so much of a let-down.

[-Logan-]

I would have preferred more ways to invade or break through the wall, rather then continuing to promote a single laggy high density area, I'm talking about the gate of course.

I don't see how some of these changes will help when they will be bringing even more people together to create a lagging black hole. Yes, it helps with organizing, but I still prefer the current system where players did that for themselves. I feel some of these changes take away control from the players and force them to play this way. But we'll see how it goes.

I agree with what Stooge said. It reminds me of the fast gate timers on Amun where the gate respawns and you will be stuck inside with a gem, but no way out.

[Topogigio_BR]

I think hp of gates is not a problem, but to function properly with this new dynamics i think it would be best to make gates at same hp but greatly reduce regeneration, in a way if the first realm fails to break the gate, the second realm can continue the job.

And for only one central save i assume all mobs above lvl45 should go to War zone. If you keep some realms with mobs above lvl45 in inner realm it should create a great inbalance for the grinders of realm who dont have it.

Instead of instant gate when an invaded realm retakes a fort what about to cut the invasion time by 1/3, 1/3 for each fortification retaken.

[Seher]

solutions that were implemented:

1) and 2): One and only central save

This will most likely help a lot.

3): New invasion mechanics
• The gate will be vulnerable when the realm looses control of all its fortifications for 15 minutes (it doesn't matter if those where taken by a single opposing realm or both of them)

Realms will team up more often then, I think that's good as well.

• If the defending realm retakes one fortification the vulnerability ends.
• if the gate was broken and the defending realm retakes one fortification the gates will re-appear.

Sounds interesting. However this point is kind of... dangerous. Too many factors influencing this, too many possibilities of what is going to happen, it's nearly impossible to predict what this change actually means. You'll maybe have to remove this via hotfix, who knows.
I'm afraid it could mean more useless running, I really hope the new teleportation stuff is going to solve this.

4) New invulnerability rule: If a realm looses all its gems it will become invulnerable and its fortifications will not be able to be taken unless they take back or steal a gem or one of the opposing realms visits the dragon. (now the invulnerable realm can take a fully offensive stance!)

Seems to be something good as well, combined with exp for killing enemies and the new war master coins it should bring more action to the war zone. You should rather change the warmaster coins system than this if it doesn't work out well. (There's some room for improvements, see below)

Please don't take this changes as final as we plan to continue making modifications to invasions until we get them right and we need to test changes with live server's population. Think of this as an event ;)

As long as it doesn't mean more running... I'm looking forward to it! My only concern is warmaster coins, having to accept it as a quest and the strict limit to 1 time per day, that's not the most elegant and comfortable solution and might decrease the war zone action.

[Nikor]

I agree with Mira.

If a realm becomes invunerable, where is the motivation to take an offensive stance?

Sometimes a realm can be without ANY gems for over a week. Some people could see this as a free grinding week. They know they're not going to be needed in war - that their own war zone area will see less action, so they can grind in peace.

Not many people have enough "realm pride" to motivate them enough to make a concerted effort to retake their gems.

This might be true for Horus, but it don't think it is for Ra. Alsius has been without gems for about 2 weeks now and can you guess whose forts are taken the most? Alsius's of course. Ignis and Syrtis are in a stalemate, they know they don't have much of a chance invading each other, so they go for the third realm. Alsius on the other hand is too busy keeping their own realm clean to do much else. With this update Alsius would be free to take other forts and with that maybe help another realm to invade.

While I think your objections are valid, they are not a problem with the new mechanics. The problem is Alsius' (Horus) attitude. And you can only change that yourself.

If this invunerability is to stay - players need to be motivated to retake their gems. Current invasion rewards are not enough to do this on their own.

That, of course, would help a lot.

[impp]

Sorry, got bored with reading all of the long threads so apologies if someone has posted this.

Yes I agree that it could be a big issue as large swathes will be trapped in the inner realm - it would be a good tactic to block gems being captured, wait for the invasion and then cut off any support.

A solution (cause I like these) could be....

Allow the inner realm cities/towns to be capturable so that invaders can set up a stronghold in the realm to hold out until the gates can be reopened.



I also note that the one central CS goes against the argument for more spread out battles and reduced load on the servers. If you have not already noticed NGD before most organised invasions players already group up at the central save location. Unless you are planning on removing party chat and clan chat having three saves means that war parties being spread at the three saves actually promotes the instances of multiple battles.

Apologies but before every update it seems that NGD puts out these sort of post that seem to exemplify the lack of in-game time they actually spend. I ask a dev once if he played and claimed he had two characters. Only two???

Can I suggest NGD-ers play more and maybe form random attack parties to take part and observe gameplay? If players knew NGD-ers were around incognito it could reduce cheating too.

EDIT:

That said go for it anything to get more organised invasions. As my old boss used to say: Let's suck it and see!

[Knekelvoeste]

+1. The options that are available to vote for are very anti-climactic for such end-game content.

Maybe keep the current voting system and dragon-wishes, but also for those who visit the dragon, have the dragon give them all riches (after all, we know through dragon lore that they hoard loot like crazy!)

Could be some unique items/armor/jewely/etc. that would not be BETTER than anything else currently available (so as not to upset balance) but something unique and different that would be a nice bonus to make current dragon wish options not so much of a let-down.

Well i just cant wait to see all nighttime players having nice gear and the people who actually sleep around those times will have nothing...

[HidraA]

Maybe making one save will improve mechanics of invasion but...:
-personaly i will not run from aggers save to imperia twice..too long distance...
-grind in this places will be almoust forgot..this will promote more grid inside of realm.

Second issue:
-What i find inside of another realm beeside of gems to motivate me to doo this?
-About rewords of invasion...not motivate me enaugh to doo this... +XP bonus almoust all time...i am sick of grind....

[ieti]

Instead of removing the fort capture option if realm have no gems just remove the XP attackers get. Defenders will still get XP, but attackers and farmers will get nothing.

This can bring them to search a new way to gain "W" and more XP - i.e. they will surely go to other realm.

For me Forts must not be locked. Just remove the possibility to "grind" on realm players that do not have gems. If you want get the fort for fun it is legal in a war, just you will get only fun and not a XP farm.

Locking a fort is too drastic action. Taking the XP "candy" will surely make them move.

[Signatus]

A simple solution is promising a lvl 135 drop randomly assigned to whomever is present in the golden dragon, you can even make it a 1/100000000 probability, just make sure to leak an image of its stats out.

You'll se more invasions then ever regardless of the system you implement. :D

[HidraA]

And as a suggestion :

Change timer till gates will be vulnerable:
-i sugest 10 minuts for 3 forts capture
-15(or 20) minuts for castle+ 1 fort capture

This can give a advantage to realms that have lower number of players but also it's a desavantage for they to defend they gates.

Alsius anyway with 30 minuts or 15 minuts will get invadet a lots..at least to have option to payback the coin :P

Timer & one save will improve ration of invasion....but question is:
Q.-What motivate me to doo this?
A.-XP bonus it's not enaught :P

And a second question:
Q.-What iit's the idea to have Warmsters if all will be warmasters...at lvl 60..?

As a sugestion too:
-Make lvl 59-60 or a cap lvl 61 (from 60 to 61) to be able to lvl-up only from war and not from grind :P
Like this a warmaster will be for real a warmaster ...not a grind master :P

[S_N_I_P_E_R]

With making a realm invulnerable, instead of doing this why not make the castle and only the castle invulnerable if the realm has no gems, this way the main fort an secondry forts will still bring action to this realm.

So say alsius has no gems, Imp will be invulnerable to attacks (maybe a visable barrier around it), but Trelle and Aggs will still be attackable. This would in the case of Horus still give alsius a reason for war instead of mass grind.

[ncvr]

I would have preferred more ways to invade or break through the wall, rather then continuing to promote a single laggy high density area, I'm talking about the gate of course.
This.

If the fighting was spread out across more areas rather than concentrated in one chokepoint, it would encourage more tactical play and strategic considerations than just having a massive zerg/AoE fest.

[impp]

The ability for small groups to scale the wall anywhere when the gates are vulnerable - say it takes about 15mins to get over. The reverse of knocking down a door, instead building a "siege tower" or ladder? Get a few warmasters across to teleport more, you could build up a nice little invasion group to support gate-bashing from the inside.

Oh and how about making the walls attackable from the inside?

[Topogigio_BR]

With making a realm invulnerable, instead of doing this why not make the castle and only the castle invulnerable if the realm has no gems, this way the main fort an secondry forts will still bring action to this realm.

So say alsius has no gems, Imp will be invulnerable to attacks (maybe a visable barrier around it), but Trelle and Aggs will still be attackable. This would in the case of Horus still give alsius a reason for war instead of mass grind.

SNiper i think when NGD says invulnerable, it means even if you lost the 3 forts timer on gate dont starts.

[doppelapfel]

Lets wait for that teleportstuff, if it means you can go from one fort to another very fast i dont mind having to keep al forts for an invasion.
I really like your plans to make forts unattackable if a realm has no gems, this will increase the number of bridge- and open fieldfights which are usually fairer and a lot more fun.

[Znurre]

On amun, the warzone gate goes down in 3 hits from a barbarian.
Is that intended?

[ieti]

Whole Invasion idea is flawed. Most flawed thing are realm walls.

- Remove realm walls.
- Move gems into cities.
- Make lower than easy do not give XP, RP.
- Reinforce cities.
- Reinforce gem pillars into cities.
- Make cities capturable.
- Remove saves and move them to cities.
- Give XP bonuses for capturing city.
- Make all equipment, mounts tradable - even xim, master ones.
- Hide bosses when realm, city, forts in danger, captured.
- Remove XP, RP from enemies when gems, forts captured.

There can be alot more ideas.

Bold ones are especially to fight boss camping and streghten realm as a whole. :D

[Znurre]

Also, at least in Alsius there are now guard patrols outside cities.
If the walls were torn down, these guard patrols could patrol between cities and escort newbies so they don't get killed too much.

[Skargod]

If it will be that easy to interrupt the invations and get the gate closed then please fix the bug that everyone can jump over the big wall of alsius. Its still possible on Amun.

ty ;-)

[HuntShot]

If it will be that easy to interrupt the invations and get the gate closed then please fix the bug that everyone can jump over the big wall of alsius. Its still possible on Amun.

ty ;-)

They can do what!?

[Skargod]

They can do what!?

They are able to climb over the realm wall!

[bois]

Good to see invasions is on the front burner. Where to begin...

Before I even start to comment on the new mechanics I better get these thoughts out of the way :
Firstly, we simply do not have enough information to properly assess this new move by NGD.
I don't know about teleportation and its mechanic so there is no way to assess its impact on movement around the battle field.
Importantly, I don't know anything about the new forts and castles and I believe that this is crucial to the NGD plan working they way they want. NGD sees the whole picture (which probably works) we see fragments.

So we are left with an incremental update that seems tailor fit to the RA experience and appears to scale poorly across servers. The thing weighing most on my mind is that for NGD to implement Invasions the way they are seemingly going, they need to implement the whole mechanic forts, castles, wishes, the whole thing in one update. There is no way in my mind that this can go piecemeal and look totally solid.

In my imagination, this partial invasion update will leave gaping holes that really would be filled in by subsequent patches. Unfortunately, we may be left for a couple months in chaos until the tie-in patches come.

On to the update.

One save.
I am fine with it. It makes transiting the war zone a little more perilous and as such players need to think "we" instead of "me" a lot more. The game needs this. I do not know about the teleportation spells so I have no idea how this will work. I will wager that these are short range. Commuting around the warzone will be a little more taxing but, it extends the warzone without actually increasing its size. The environment just got a whole lot bigger. Camping will be reduced at saves (possibly). Eventually I see the guard going. I would use -xp, -wmaster coin and -RP as deterrents.

]Become vulnerable when the realm looses control of all its fortifications for 15 minutes (any enemy).[/COLOR]
I am okay with this with reservations. On the up side, vulnerability become much more common with the threat of invasion becoming much less scripted. This is a good thing.

The bad thing is that this is an incremental update and inherent flaws in the current forts and castles will lead to potential harassment and abuse. New forts and castles and their mechanic have to be known and weaknesses eliminated for this to go well. I can see frustration creeping in when an army has to leave for an outpost to kill 3 people. Very common on Horus right now. Forts need early warning upgrades, longer to take by commando forces and AI or mechanic that is a little smarter especially around flags. The fort taking can be slowed by internal AI performing slowing CC attacks. Lastly, the upgrade must be addressed if only temporarily. In effect , you could see 2 enemies attacking one but, one will have 2 structures and one will have one. Theoretically all can be upgraded to lvl 4 causing imbalance. My suggestion is that if 2 enemies attack, AI upgrades are downgraded in at least 2 of the 3 structures , basically the castle and the fort of the enemy holding 1 structure. A maximum of lvl 3 fort is possible in 2 structures. The other can go to lvl 4.

If the defending realm retakes one fortification the vulnerability ends.
This is fine based on the new mechanic.

If the gate was broken and the defending realm retakes one fortification the gates will re-appear.
This can work. Ignis has bashed the door from the inside already with current mechanics so it can be done. What has not been mentioned is the amount and type of AI that will exist at the main gates. In all honesty, I would have preferred 2 gates (per realm) that are fairly weak and tiny border gauntlet towns sitting behind them (inner realm)with few structures and very little AI. The available AI is evenly spread outside and inside the gate. This will spread the war which is what you said you wanted. The war will not be the gates but the gauntlets that sit behind them. Much more interesting that way. Maybe in another expansion. Again, this is dependant on the new WZ fortifications.Also, the weakness of the gate is crucial to the balance of this.

maximum invasion time will be of 2 hours. Sure, you could add this but based on you new mechanic this should be rendered obsolete. If an army can't take one of its forts back it surely can't hold the gate for 2 hours. The gate is much weaker so it is either take a fort or get overrun and invaded.

New invulnerability rule:

Bad idea. It has been proven that apathy steps in once you have nothing to lose. This will backfire. I say, as others have said, make the gate invulnerable. The others do not have reason to invade anyway. Start all the forts for this gem-less realm at level 2 . Level 3 if underpopulated . That way war can still be waged and the defenders have a locked in advantage. However, it can't be all positive. So, your normal XP from mobs is only 60% and the XP you get from enemies is only 85%. Your war-master coinage is also reduced (-50 coins per quest) and your top 2 inner realm bosses will not spawn until you get at least 1 gem back or the portal gets opened. So, you either do it yourself or you help the opponent to open their portal.

This brings me to my last point. The wishes really need overhauling. New mechanics will be enough to drive fury and as such malus wishes will not be needed. Remove the XP malus and replace it with either a magnanite or bonus quest for war coins available to all who enter once they are level 35 and above.

Yes , excessively long but you should be used to me making these by now.

Regards
Artec

EDIT: please note the figures I presented are just hypothetical and not what I actually envisage. Malus should not be so harsh. Feel free to offer 'real' numbers if you wish.

[Kaixo]

I will resume what I wrote in the other forum:
The defender only need to go to one fortification-->Big, big group to the nearest fortification.
Atacker will go to the same fortification with a lot of people.

The problem will be worse, more people in the same places. To maintain this system and favour battles in different locations the defender realm should retake at least 2 fortifications. Also there should be the same distance from save to all fortifications. It's problematic because there could be one entire realm in one castle, and other entire realm in two forts. I think it's necessary to increse the number of fortifications to four for each realm, this way one atacker and the defender would need to control at least two forts.

Another problem with only one save is the need of teleports placed wisely. If not horses will be absolutely necessary to play.

[Kralmoe]

One and only central save:
It maybe ok for Ra but for Horus it is not a good idea due to the relative low population. Example: If the enemy attacks Eferias many will not go there if there are not conjurers going to ress them. We do not know yet about the teleport question but some things I can assume:
1.- Before enough ppl get to lvl 60 warmaster it is going to take some time and in the meantime you will have the distance problem.
2.- We dont know if getting lvl 60 warmaster wil be very difficult and in this case only a few warmasters will not solve the problem of the castle/fort distance to CS. You need them to be online and if they are not.... less people will go to die that far.
Another problem with only 1 save is that till now some players were grinding near a save (safety reasons) but if you remove it too far their grinding zone I suppose that less people will grind in wz.

The gate will be vulnerable when the realm looses control of all its fortifications for 15 minutes (it doesn't matter if those where taken by a single opposing realm or both of them)

Very good!

If the defending realm retakes one fortification the vulnerability ends.

In Horus it's a bad idea due to the lower population. You will need more people to defend fortifications while you invade. As it is now it's a very very big effort to get enough people to invade.

If a realm looses all its gems it will become invulnerable and its fortifications will not be able to be taken unless they take back or steal a gem or one of the opposing realms visits the dragon. (now the invulnerable realm can take a fully offensive stance!)

Bad idea -at least in Horus-. I dont believe that if (lets say) Alsius is invaded and gems stolen they will be more motivated to attack the other realms than before. Why should they? Their fortifications are save so most of Alsius will keep on grinding without any fear of enemies taking Aggers, Trelle or being invaded.

Health of the realm gate has been greatly reduced too

Good idea

[doppelapfel]

If a realm looses all its gems it will become invulnerable and its fortifications will not be able to be taken unless they take back or steal a gem or one of the opposing realms visits the dragon. (now the invulnerable realm can take a fully offensive stance!)

Bad idea -at least in Horus-. I dont believe that if (lets say) Alsius is invaded and gems stolen they will be more motivated to attack the other realms than before. Why should they? Their fortifications are save so most of Alsius will keep on grinding without any fear of enemies taking Aggers, Trelle or being invaded.

Yeah right, its not like anybody would do any kind of pvp or rvr voluntary in regnum. Evil NGD is addding more and more of this crap to disturb us while grinding and farming.

[Punti_X]

I am questioning the point when one of forts retaking makes gate out of danger.
I would rather suggest that this is ok if gate is not broken, but if gate is broken, no retaking should fix them.
Or another suggestion, make it all 3 forts to be retaken to make gate safe and closed (even broken).

[Kralmoe]

Yeah right, its not like anybody would do any kind of pvp or rvr voluntary in regnum. Evil NGD is addding more and more of this crap to disturb us while grinding and farming.

I am sorry I think I was not quite clear. I didn't mean that everybody (in Alsius, Ignis or Syrtis) will be less offensive if fortifications are invulnerable. I meant that less players will be motivated to take up any war because there is no fortification to defend.

[Llyssaer]

I would rather suggest that this is ok if gate is not broken, but if gate is broken, no retaking should fix them. Or another suggestion, make it all 3 forts to be retaken to make gate safe and closed (even broken).

I like the idea of having to retake property to make the realm safe again! Of course, with the intended change, retaking a fort or the castle will rebuild a broken gate, thus closing in the invading realm. I can see where this could be a huge problem. I can also see it being an interesting twist on invasion providing the invading forces can break the gate from the inside. If so, okay let's give it a try.

A single central save would stop the bickering about whose fort is closest and thus unfairly advantageous. A single save would also create a more balanced and engaging fight at castles. If the enemy dies, he or she has to run all the way back from his or her realm. I like that the hometeam would have to do this as well. Would make conjury even more vital during the fight. How about reviving heals so they do a bit more? And perhaps a shorter cooldown on resurrection?

[Darcyeti]

I am sorry I think I was not quite clear. I didn't mean that everybody (in Alsius, Ignis or Syrtis) will be less offensive if fortifications are invulnerable. I meant that less players will be motivated to take up any war because there is no fortification to defend.

That might be another server related problem. On Niflheim most player have fun by fighting, not by retaking their forts from opponents. Fieldbattles, bridgebattles, shopbattles (killing shopfarmers would be a better name), and fortbattles, all of them is done because of the fun fighting gives to you. Of cause we have afker, trader and lazy sitting people as well, but thats not the most of players.

I know a lot of people who will fight at every place possible even if home forts are invulnerable.

Wait and see!

As chilko said: it's not final, more like a testing event on live servers.

I'm looking forward to all changes coming in the future, they're what kepps our games alive and in flow.

:alsius:

edit:

I like that the hometeam would have to do this as well. Would make conjury even more vital during the fight. How about reviving heals so they do a bit more? And perhaps a shorter cooldown on resurrection?

It would even get cremate to a more used spell ;) And maybe camouflage corps would be frequently used more as well. It could be the outcome, that different skillsets might be used in future.

[_Seinvan]

I like most of what I see, but I think most of us were hoping that 'changes to invasion mechanics' meant something more like 'different objectives in wz besides forts'.

Also:
• If the defending realm retakes one fortification the vulnerability ends.
• if the gate was broken and the defending realm retakes one fortification the gates will re-appear.

So if the invading realm gets stuck inside, can they still break their way out? :D
Or will they have to rely on their allies to recapture the forts and make the gates vulnerable again?

I'm ok with either of the above options as opposed to being sitting ducks inside an enemy realm. Could add some new dimensions to invasions ;)

[Nekoko]

...

Love everything I see but I'd prefer a realm still be able to have it's forts taken but only that realm is allowed to upgrade forts when they have no gems.

[Mattdoesrock]

I think the three best options if a realm has no gems are:

A) The attackers get no xp,

B) No fort upgrades can be used,

C) They cannot be invaded.

[Punti_X]

I don't like A). Makes it all apsurde.

[ieti]

It is not absurd. Why to farm realm that can not fight back. You go there knowing there will be no reward, so no problem. If you want reward you pick someone your own size. It is simple.

If goats can not protect self, you go ignis and get your XP. This will hurt noyone and it is alot better than the you can not get fort thing.

[Cuchulainn]

These changes looking overall pretty interesting.

I'm not sure about this invulnerability rule though. It could lead to much more (wz-) inactivity for the poor gemless realm. But combined with other changes of the expansion, the risk that it will lead to complete wz inactivity for this realm is probably rather low. And at least it would stop that the gemless realm is farmed and zerged over and over again.

[Ulti19]

After playing around on amun, i can say i love the changes. Seems war is nonestop action packed and getting into another realm and then having to go defend your own gate fast is wicked. Invasion doesn't seem frustrating at all but so fun, and I think it's a giant plus 1!

As for the invulnerable part, i change my mind, i think it goes well with these fast dynamics. If you have no gems, and lets say syrtis has samal, all we have to do is go to shana and meni very fast and hold for 2 minutes which isn't that hard and then press the gate. I see alot of gate fights happening and i like that alot:) Huge change to the game and i love it.

[bois]

2 minutes? You mean the vulnerability timer?

It is sped up on Amun for testing purposes. The real holding time is 15 minutes to make the gate vulnerable. Please note this.


The gate will be vulnerable when the realm looses control of all its fortifications for 15 minutes (it doesn't matter if those where taken by a single opposing realm or both of them)

Quote from opening post.

A lot of the Amun version will probably go live without much adjustment. I look forward to playing and testing it in a production environment. It will be fun.

[Ulti19]

Ah, thank you Bois for clearing that up, that is a shame, i rather enjoyed the 2 minutes.

[ice_zero_cool]

I didnt read the whole thread (only page 1) and I dont know if what Im going to say was being changed in the past, but:

Back on my days on the German server when your realm invaded another one and the doors got closed again, because you didnt get out, there was a mechanic which let you escape although the gate was closed.

Its the end of the great wall(s) which used to act like a teleporter to cs of your realm.

As I said, I dont know if this mechanic is still active or not, but it used to be like this.

ice

[bois]

They will probably change that because in many cases an army will get trapped in the realm and should have the option to "jail-break". In such a case I suppose it is up to the realm to evict the invaders that are roaming around inside.

In a strange way, if you look at it, NGD did drop the wall and extended the War zone as many battles will take place inner realm now. We could see city warfare. War will be brought to the lower levels whether they like it or not. Lower levels will be effective if they group and swarm small enemy factions.

This is shaping up to be a very interesting update. Hopefully, they will get around to adding a few more portal wishes as they would like to do.
With this landing soon , I can't wait to see what they are cooking up for forts and castles. Big year for NGD.

Artec

[magic_gandalf_007]

Although the changes will be well meant i think the result will be less invasions.
Everyone respawning to the same save it will be very hard to keep the near by fort.
Furthermore it will lower the battles at forts/castles not near the save. Why would a realm bother about a fort/castle that is not close to it's save, if you keep one of the 3 all is ok.
Respawn all to the save and take the fort near the save with 200/300 (RA) can be done within 15 minutes :wink:.

[Dome]

- Remove realm walls.
Do NOT remove realm walls. This will only end up having a dozen hunters camp newbie gates. Instead after caping required forts castle, have the the realm gate open after 15min without the need of breaking it. This would remove the stress in one location of the wz = less lag.

- Move gems into cities.
Yes. No one would let any valuable lie around in the open.

- Make lower than easy do not give XP, RP.
I could even imagine xp rp reduction.

- Reinforce cities.
Decrease cities NPC defense.

- Reinforce gem pillars into cities.
Thats ok.

- Make cities capturable.
YES YES YES!!! All 4 of them!

- Remove saves and move them to cities.
I think we do need a central save in wz.

- Give XP bonuses for capturing city.
Good idea.


- Make all equipment, mounts tradable - even xim, master ones.
Thats ok.


- Hide bosses when realm, city, forts in danger, captured.
- Remove XP, RP from enemies when gems, forts captured.
I like the invulnerability better.


I think the three best options if a realm has no gems are:

A) The attackers get no xp,

B) No fort upgrades can be used,

C) They cannot be invaded.
This is an invitation card on horus for farming alsius.
In vulnerability isnt (and shouldnt be) about helping a realm. It should stress that realm to attack. You want to play? Than stop sitting and camping forts and invade.
If ignis takes efe that means an opportunity for a gemless alsius to take alga and get gems back.
If your realm mates are either camping or grinding than it aint NGDs fault. Tell them to go and play an asian MMO grindfest.

Yes the changes are ment to make invasion priority, and to elevate the current realm tactics (zerg zerg farm farm.) on a higher lvl.
Yes we will need to act in more than 1 groups, to be successfull.

[Nekudotayim]

Hello,

the new invasion mechanics are horrible. This may work for RA and other international servers but on german and maybe french servers, it does not work out. With the new mechanics, it takes only a few lifeless elves to invade both realms at night and this is happening daily - I mean nightly - now. The main gate is down by a very few shots. This can only be a bad joke.

Well, time to continue leveling with less xp bonus. Maybe we get negative XP in, say, one week?


Regards.

PS: NGD: Your password recovery does not work. The page is empty.

[Unk0]

but on german and maybe french servers, it does not work out. With the new mechanics, it takes only a few lifeless elves to invade both realms at night and this is happening daily - I mean nightly - now.
yeah on french serv too ><

[ArienN]

but on german and maybe french servers, it does not work out. With the new mechanics, it takes only a few lifeless elves to invade both realms at night and this is happening daily - I mean nightly - now.

Can just confirm this.
The most populated realm (guess which :P ) on Nemon has already few Dragonic gems and constantly XP bonus. And this causes more imbalance. Somehow there is something wrong that the most populated realm gets rewarded for zerging (almost) every day/night.
However, you can not compare server Ra with servers like Nemon. At Nemon Syrtis just need take all forts and up to lvl 4,the other realms are most time not even able to retake them after 3 AM.
I dont think it meets NGD's expectations, if the most populated realm has constantly XP bonus ( more XP -> lesser grind -> lesser boost needed)

[Truewar]

As it was noticed many times before Invasions give overpopulated realm more power and make others weak.

So bonuses should be totally different. I suggest
1) Remove all +\- XP Bonuses and Gold decrease bonus
2) +% Gold for your realm is GOOD
3) Add permanent gold bonus. For example +1000000 to everyone in portal.
4) Add some premium presents(banners, fireworks, health\mana potions, repair hammers)

IMAO there should be some gold from war anyway. Repairs are too expensive. Maybe its worth to add gold reward to war master's quests.

Regarding invasion mechanics.
1) I suggest to remove XP, drop, loot from mobs higher than lvl30 if realm gates not safe.
2) Realm's offensive stance is a great idea. But unconquerable forts is a FAIL. Realm can stay without gems for weeks. So simple fort war with that realm becomes impossible on small servers. As result WM becomes impossible too. I suggest to make forts conquerable, but make their gates safe even if all forts are captured.

[_Nel_]

From ROstatus (http://rostatus.heroku.com/)

Nemon past week :
> http://pastebin.com/GzEKYJPs

Muspell past week :
> http://pastebin.com/aqsFKxF8

Niflheim past week :
> http://pastebin.com/6FQ8NvFU

Horus past week :
> Nothing

Ra past week:
> Nothing

FYI : Germany and France are in GMT+1, this means all those invasions occured at night. On Nemon, they invade every night with a GIGANTIC group of... 4-5 ppl :facepalm3:

NGD, you should have already received a report from Gamigo. So, what do you plan to fix invasions in non-international servers ?

A lot of players are already tired of this epic fail. Since warmasters update on Nemon, an army of players with Draconic Gem are running around in warzone. That looks like a big cheating legitimated by NGD itself.

You should make an announce to reassure your players and fix it asap.

[-Sorothos-]

Hello,

the new invasion mechanics are horrible. This may work for RA and other international servers but on german and maybe french servers, it does not work out. With the new mechanics, it takes only a few lifeless elves to invade both realms at night and this is happening daily - I mean nightly - now. The main gate is down by a very few shots. This can only be a bad joke.

Well, time to continue leveling with less xp bonus. Maybe we get negative XP in, say, one week?


Regards.

PS: NGD: Your password recovery does not work. The page is empty.


It works @ Muspell, but it's always an invasion at 3 a.m. - 6 a.m. ... ;]
Mostly, there are 10-20 players, which fight against realms where all the players are sleeping. ;D

So it wars the whole last week...

[Taralyn1]

Dear players
As you'll see on monday with the Warmasters update we've made some changes to the invasion system.

We wanted to tell you about this changes so you can check them out and debate during the weekend.

What do we want to achieve with this changes:
1) To gather a bigger amount of users on the same location to help realms organize themselves.
2) to avoid camping by increasing numbers of defenders (we remind you that killing enemies in saves means no XP, loss of RP and it doesn't count for the daily adventures)
3) We want invasions to happen more frequently. Also, we need to have many battles at the same time in different locations so we don't overload the server and client.
4) Avoid a single realm to be constantly harassed.

solutions that were implemented:

1) and 2): One and only central save

3): New invasion mechanics
• The gate will be vulnerable when the realm looses control of all its fortifications for 15 minutes (it doesn't matter if those where taken by a single opposing realm or both of them)
• If the defending realm retakes one fortification the vulnerability ends.
• if the gate was broken and the defending realm retakes one fortification the gates will re-appear.
• maximum invasion time will be of 2 hours.

4) New invulnerability rule: If a realm looses all its gems it will become invulnerable and its fortifications will not be able to be taken unless they take back or steal a gem or one of the opposing realms visits the dragon. (now the invulnerable realm can take a fully offensive stance!)

Please don't take this changes as final as we plan to continue making modifications to invasions until we get them right and we need to test changes with live server's population. Think of this as an event ;)

Regards,

Chilko

EDIT: health of the realm gate has been greatly reduced too



The fact that we cant take back our forts after our gems have all been taken does not reduce camping. It actually increases it due to the fact that the forts remain in enemy control & gives them a free spot to regroup, heal, then slaughter in a huge group. This has greatly reduced the moral in Alsius as we cannot leave the save without being killed by 10v1. And I have personally witnessed many players hiding behind the save pillar opposite the guard just to kill the people that are away from their keyboards for a short time. I think that if there is to be only one save pillar, there should be an additional guard on the opposite side of the pillar.

Thanks

[Nekudotayim]

NGD, you should have already received a report from Gamigo. So, what do you plan to fix invasions in non-international servers ?

A lot of players are already tired of this epic fail. Since warmasters update on Nemon, an army of players with Draconic Gem are running around in warzone. That looks like a big cheating legitimated by NGD itself.

You should make an announce to reassure your players and fix it A-S-A-P.

I corrected this one for you.

The fact that we cant take back our forts after our gems have all been taken does not reduce camping. It actually increases it due to the fact that the forts remain in enemy control & gives them a free spot to regroup, heal, then slaughter in a huge group. This has greatly reduced the moral in Alsius as we cannot leave the save without being killed by 10v1. And I have personally witnessed many players hiding behind the save pillar opposite the guard just to kill the people that are away from their keyboards for a short time. I think that if there is to be only one save pillar, there should be an additional guard on the opposite side of the pillar.

Thanks

Hello,

I feel sorry for you that this bug occured and Alsius is not the owner of their forts as is should be like. NGD should solve this issue immediately too but I doubt, that they are able to do instant fixes like other game developers are able to.

Regards.

[buldarnemon]

I do confirm that the update created a huge imbalance on nemon server and a lot of new players are discouraged by the fact that they get xp malus. Someone suggested on gamigo forum that dragon wish should superseed previous one which in my opinion is quite a good idea. This way you wouldn't get xp bonus for invading realm, xp malus for others, zerg of draconic gem players (fortunately not playing very well) all at the same time.
Would it be possible to test it on french server?
Thx

[tarashunter]

I do confirm that the update created a huge imbalance on nemon server and a lot of new players are discouraged by the fact that they get xp malus. Someone suggested on gamigo forum that dragon wish should superseed previous one which in my opinion is quite a good idea. This way you wouldn't get xp bonus for invading realm, xp malus for others, zerg of draconic gem players (fortunately not playing very well) all at the same time.
Would it be possible to test it on french server?
Thx

Ahahahahahhahahhaahahahah great disaster!
I think all the update ngd works,are done for server with hight population like RA.
Apart RA all the others server seems have BIG problems....just take a look on the others tread to realize that.
I think is not so hard to understand.....
Would be nice hear some reply...just to know what the games master think about that kind of problems on all the others server.
I just hope one day will be possible have transfer to RA.
Anyway now on horus aslius get invaded...i think that if ignis don't move to invade syrtis again,alsius will remain invulnerable for 1 year,or till the next server restart.

[doppelapfel]

Ahahahahahhahahhaahahahah great disaster!
I think all the update ngd works,are done for server with hight population like RA.
Apart RA all the others server seems have BIG problems....just take a look on the others tread to realize that.
+1 to this.
Not only invasions dont work on smaller servers as on ra, the whole classbalance is messed up (there is obviously a huge difference between 50vs50 zergwar and 5vs5 open field fights).
There are a lot more examples, the wz on smaller servers is simply to big, bosses on smaller servers cant be killed when NGD decides to adjust them on the bigger ones, if they can be killed on smaller servers too everbody runs around with ubergear there (which has of course a way bigger impact on smaller fights than on zergwar) and so on.

[Konrad_Knox]

It seems like a lot of the heated discussion comes from the fact of "where" pvp is focused. The devs want to spread the action to not overload the server.

There was one great idea to place gems in realm cities. But we have one problem with that. Noobs.

What do we do with the noobs? Well, one particular game, highly successful one, answered it the following way: throw the noobs in.

So, we're back to the issue of Regnum class/level balance, and only one thing comes to mind. Why is it that a level 20 in Regnum can never beat a level 30? The answer is: because level 30 evades all effects.

So, solution: make debuffs (like minuses to speed, damage, accuracy, defense) and effects like "freeze", "stun", "knock", "dizzy" - not have an attack rating, thus make them unresistable on the level scale.

This way, a level 15 noob with a single effect skill can still contribute to a battle between a level 50 and a level 50. A tiny level noob can make a difference because his debuff or CC effect will score a success and will actually matter!

Can you imagne how addicting and popular this game will become if players learn that as soon as they gain their first debuffs, they can go help the big dogs? How much self esteem it boosts, and how much motivation it gives to level up further! I for one would love to see that change.

Because right now, a low level is in the world of suck. All his powers miss and get evaded, due to a level comparison. Take out that comparison for applying effects. Make damage and hp - the only difference between high and low level. Make all the effects always succeed to apply. And you will see a glorious game pvp dynamic never seen before.

Suddenly, war will be everywhere, and everyone will want to fight. You'll see 10 noobs tackling a level 60, keeping him frozen and stunned, etc.

[tarashunter]

Can you imagne how addicting and popular this game will become if players learn that as soon as they gain their first debuffs, they can go help the big dogs? How much self esteem it boosts, and how much motivation it gives to level up further! I for one would love to see that change.

Because right now, a low level is in the world of suck. All his powers miss and get evaded, due to a level comparison. Take out that comparison for applying effects. Make damage and hp - the only difference between high and low level. Make all the effects always succeed to apply. And you will see a glorious game pvp dynamic never seen before.

Suddenly, war will be everywhere, and everyone will want to fight. You'll see 10 noobs tackling a level 60, keeping him frozen and stunned, etc.


yes i can immagine,but the facts on regnum online are different...can you immagine me,a noob lvl 60 that cast debuff or other CC and get ever resisted like 8 times on 10?
I play hunter low dmg and that resist rate is like if i play permanent dizzy...i cannot attack and by the way son of the wind is a broken spell that have no resist spell bonus,i have noi defence too.Many lock in regnum say the same things.
An hunter that in 1 vs see his spell resiste 8 time on 10 is dead 8 time on 10.
Same for locks.Anyway this can be material from another unreaded tread of this forum(unreaded for who works on game).

[Unk0]

So, we're back to the issue of Regnum class/level balance, and only one thing comes to mind. Why is it that a level 20 in Regnum can never beat a level 30? The answer is: because level 30 evades all effects.
that's not true.. when i go on wz with my lvl20 hunter embush work great on lvl50 ...
the evade/resiste rate are increase with lvl cause stat increate with lvl imo it's normal but that's totaly not imposible for a lvl20 to cast on lvl50 most of spell works.

[melooon]

Especially tired of invasion during night.

Especially tired to see players playing like starving somalians for very small bunch of other players from realm already underpopulated, invaded and no gems.

Finally warmasters quests turned you more mad and retardz than the past :/

Where's the fun to invade the realms when there is almost no population at all to defend it during this lapse of time ?

Forts serve for campers now :-S

Really, NGD you should try to play on LiveServer because playing on Amun is unrelevant at all. Then you will understand better the problems players are encountering since ages.

[Konrad_Knox]

Imbalance will always happen with faction based pvp, look at DAoC or Shattered Galaxies. To create truely balanced pvp, you gotta switch to Clan PvP, where forts and cities are owned by a Clan, Clan crest shows up on map, saying the city is owned by that clan, and that will motivate people to PvP for their clan ambition. There won't be a way to just switch all the characters to same faction, because clans are competitive and don't recruit so easily.
Could try going for a system like that. It's bound to be balanced, because smaller clans will unite against big clan.

[Cuchulainn]

Imbalance will always happen with faction based pvp, look at DAoC or Shattered Galaxies. ...

But NGD could do much better about realm balance. For example some drastic measures like:

1. enabling realm transfer for ximerin and encourage realm transfer users to go to the underpopulated realm --> solves population imbalance
Of course there should be also a punishment like -20% XP if someone moves to the underpopulated realm, -30% XP if someone moves to the middle populated realm etc to prevent that realm hopping happens too often.

2. close access for accounts with lvl40+ characters if there is currently a huge imbalance on the server. For example: In case if one realm has 45% players of whole lvl40+ server population logged in the client or server disables their access until it is better balanced (similar to the server full feature on RA) and also log players off if necessary --> solves population+timezone issues.

The second idea is only a basic idea. Of course it would need some adjustments to prevent abuse possiblities.

This would solve the issue with night/morning time invasions and invasions could finally be more about fun+organization and not so much about realm numbers+timezone imbalance :cuac:

[Pnarpa]

But NGD could do much better about realm balance. For example some drastic measures like:

1. enabling realm transfer for ximerin and encourage realm transfer users to go to the underpopulated realm --> solves population imbalance
Of course there should be also a punishment like -20% XP if someone moves to the underpopulated realm, -30% XP if someone moves to the middle populated realm etc to prevent that realm hopping happens too often.

Just make it so they can't transfer for a couple of months? I don't think anyone would even want to transfer if they lose 2 mil - 3 mil in xp...

[Cuchulainn]

Just make it so they can't transfer for a couple of months? I don't think anyone would even want to transfer if they lose 2 mil - 3 mil in xp...

Maybe you are right. Grinding is pretty boring and so on. If it was at least 4 or 6 month+some Ximerin it should be also ok.

I created a thread of my other suggestion here (http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=74549).

[Nekudotayim]

Well, just throwing this suggestion in here, which may only count, if the current invasion mechanics will stay as they are now.
How about adding an invasion timer to the game? (maybe only on non-international servers) So you can start an invasion between, say, 12pm and 12am (inclusive) only. Between 12am and 12pm (exclusive) you cannot do invasions.
There exist other games too, where you can do specific actions only at specific times.

[Pimousse]

Depending in how warmaster special skills will be implemented, i think they may help for realm/time zone balance. With teleport people in a focused fort, defending a realm gate may be easier in taking back a fort during the vulnerabilty timing and/or in order to closeback the gate. And attacking realm could try to hold a such fort with teleport too.
what do you mean ?

[Signatus]

Some feedback on current invasion mechanics, at least as experienced in the Horus server. These are, obviously, personal opinions on the subject.

THUMBS UP

- 3 forts capture - It's a good system that helps the defending realm to quickly manoeuvre against a larger opponent. It also forces the offensive realm to spread its forces thus preventing large zergs camped at one place (unless it clearly outnumbers the opponent realm). Furthermore it's an elegant system to include another realm on an invasion attempt.

Ex.

Alsius managed to always defend at least one fort against Ignis last night. Since Ignis had no spare people to attack the Alsius defenders and hold the captured forts, Alsius managed to be always a step ahead thus preventing their gates to be endangered.

3 days ago Alsius captured Algaros, and from an Ignis invasion attempt they successfully managed to extract 2 Syrtis gems (they weren't able to keep them but that's another issue).

- Defending realm only needs one fort to cancel an invasion - the thumb-up aspect of this feature is how the fighting focus is now centred at the forts, even after the realm gates are in danger, and even after the gems have been captured!

Ex.

Yesterday night Syrtis managed to close the gates 2 seconds (not exaggerating) after the last gem left the realm. 3 nights ago, only after several fort fights was Ignis able to endanger Syrtis gate.

- Paper gate - the thumb-up aspect of this feature is that if the gate wasn't like this, it would be impossible to do it otherwise.

Ex.
None of the Ignis invasions so far had the manpower to successfully invade if the gate had the previous health on this new system.

- Fort ownership - I don't know if it is a bug, but I like how it is now! I do have to recognize that I like it specially because I'm on the the winning side. It may be too demoralizing for the players affected by it.

Ex.
Check the map, it sucks to be Syrtis...


THUMBS DOWN

- Black Ops invasion - everybody likes to play "Black Ops", but this medieval style asks for epic glory and not 4 or 5 infiltrated players getting a gem and running for the "extraction point". What invasion won in fort action, they lost in epicness!

Suggestion:

Several users have made proposals to move the gems into the cities. It might be a very good idea to work those ideas, and maybe in the future have the action at forts for some time, until another mechanism shifts the focus to fighting within the invaded realm.

- Lack of agility when in equal numbers - the defending realm has a huge advantage since they only need to secure one out of 3 forts.

Suggestion:

It seems this difficulty was already expected, we are all dreaming about the offensive portal...

- Some players still think they are in WoW or some other crappy online PvE game - and that's your fault NGD, your game had higher PvE rewards then it had RvR rewards, and now the players that do attempt to play the game you made are depreciatively called "warmongers"... on a war game! The new Warmaster expansion finally seems to be shifting the rewards pyramid to RvR but more effort is needed on this in the future.

[Topogigio_BR]

Some feedback on current invasion mechanics, at least as experienced in the Horus server. These are, obviously, personal opinions on the subject.

THUMBS UP

- 3 forts capture - It's a good system that helps the defending realm to quickly manoeuvre against a larger opponent. It also forces the offensive realm to spread its forces thus preventing large zergs camped at one place (unless it clearly outnumbers the opponent realm). Furthermore it's an elegant system to include another realm on an invasion attempt.

Ex.

Alsius managed to always defend at least one fort against Ignis last night. Since Ignis had no spare people to attack the Alsius defenders and hold the captured forts, Alsius managed to be always a step ahead thus preventing their gates to be endangered.

3 days ago Alsius captured Algaros, and from an Ignis invasion attempt they successfully managed to extract 2 Syrtis gems (they weren't able to keep them but that's another issue).

- Defending realm only needs one fort to cancel an invasion - the thumb-up aspect of this feature is how the fighting focus is now centred at the forts, even after the realm gates are in danger, and even after the gems have been captured!

Ex.

Yesterday night Syrtis managed to close the gates 2 seconds (not exaggerating) after the last gem left the realm. 3 nights ago, only after several fort fights was Ignis able to endanger Syrtis gate.

- Paper gate - the thumb-up aspect of this feature is that if the gate wasn't like this, it would be impossible to do it otherwise.

Ex.
None of the Ignis invasions so far had the manpower to successfully invade if the gate had the previous health on this new system.

- Fort ownership - I don't know if it is a bug, but I like how it is now! I do have to recognize that I like it specially because I'm on the the winning side. It may be too demoralizing for the players affected by it.

Ex.
Check the map, it sucks to be Syrtis...


THUMBS DOWN

- Black Ops invasion - everybody likes to play "Black Ops", but this medieval style asks for epic glory and not 4 or 5 infiltrated players getting a gem and running for the "extraction point". What invasion won in fort action, they lost in epicness!

Suggestion:

Several users have made proposals to move the gems into the cities. It might be a very good idea to work those ideas, and maybe in the future have the action at forts for some time, until another mechanism shifts the focus to fighting within the invaded realm.

- Lack of agility when in equal numbers - the defending realm has a huge advantage since they only need to secure one out of 3 forts.

Suggestion:

It seems this difficulty was already expected, we are all dreaming about the offensive portal...

- Some players still think they are in WoW or some other crappy online PvE game - and that's your fault NGD, your game had higher PvE rewards then it had RvR rewards, and now the players that do attempt to play the game you made are depreciatively called "warmongers"... on a war game! The new Warmaster expansion finally seems to be shifting the rewards pyramid to RvR but more effort is needed on this in the future.

Warmaster's teletransportation spells will made invasions much more easy, as you can transport about 10 ppl to everywhere. We need to wait to see some warmasters invasions.

[Arph3tic]

These invasion rules make it too easy to invade an offline realm. It's why Syrtians and Alsians get invaded and Pignis is not, since they have most on @ the quitest hours.

I'd also like to have more info on the forts since we got m back after restart, but next bugfix is going to "fix" this?

Server
-Corrected: Error that caused that “invulnerable” fortifications change the realm that claims them after a server rest.

Hopefully i am misreading ? And Invuln just makes it easier to grind as it is no longer needed to defend lol. Happy farming @ herb :)

[Signatus]

Warmaster's teletransportation spells will made invasions much more easy, as you can transport about 10 ppl to everywhere. We need to wait to see some warmasters invasions.

My feedback is about the new system and my personal views on the recent invasions. I seriously doubt that invasions will be "much more easy" with the Warmaster powers (we don't even know how they are distributed across the warmaster tree nor how they really work), but they might get more intense.

These invasion rules make it too easy to invade an offline realm. It's why Syrtians and Alsians get invaded and Pignis is not, since they have most on @ the quitest hours.

"Pignis" doesn't get invaded because the other realms don't try. And since they don't try they can't acquire factual knowledge on how it can work.

[cheapPK]

These invasion rules make it too easy to invade an offline realm. It's why Syrtians and Alsians get invaded and Pignis is not, since they have most on @ the quitest hours.

Emphatically agree. At least for the smaller servers (I'm talking about Horus here) this is a real issue. Ignus was able to successfully make wishes TWICE in one night due to taking advantage of this. I have 2 possible solutions to offer:

1. delayed invasion - if invading realm successfully holds all 3 forts for the required duration, the forts perma freeze to the invading faction for 6 hours and the timer counts down 6 hours before gates become vulnerable. This means the invasion has to be 2 pronged and ensures people can respond to it and still get sleep.

2. limit wishes to one per week - if a realm successfully captures all gems, limit the ability to make a wish to once per week - twice in 1 night is just absurd.

[bbbbbbb]

Rather than invulnerability, I would prefer that a new fort level be added (level 5), that cannot be reached with the normal upgrades. The forts would be guarded by a mini-dragon or some other powerful creature (not lame superguards that do nothing) that would need to be killed in order to capture it. When a realm loses all of its gems, the final upgrade level would become available, giving them the defensive advantage, and allowing them to have more offensive power due to the lack of need to guard home forts. This way taking their forts would be unlikely, but still possible. Perhaps the reward for taking those forts could be even greater for enemies. This upgrade would also be available on enemy territory, helping to get that gem back!
i agree with u

[Dubhghaill]

Solution 1: For there to be a timer for the regeneration of the realm gate instead of instant when the defending team reclaims a fort during an invasion. (Lets say 10 minutes) Wouldn't be too hard to write a script for that. It would give both sides something to think about.

If the defending team just wants to sit and camp the 3rd fort during the 10 minutes then they may let the attackers escape, but if they leave the fort to stop the gem, then they risk losing the fort and continuing the invasion.

The attackers have to decide whether they have time to get out with the gem, or if they need to attack the lost fort to increase time for the invasion.

Much more exciting and free flowing IMO as essentially invasion stops with 1 simple fort take. At the moment everyone just runs for the nobles if caught inside and then aimlessly runs around hoping and waiting for a new invasion, to be hunted, or suicides. If they get caught inside when the fort is taken it gives them a choice whether they want to risk being caught inside to achieve their objectives (nobles/gem), or go back and help reclaim the lost fort. The defending team should not gain an advantage to trap players if another realm has been dominant in securing their forts.

Solution 2: 2 forts instead of 1 needs to be secured by the defending team to defend an invasion and to maintain control of their realm to instantly secure realm gate (no timer for gate regen). The attacking team will need to retake both forts to initiate another invasion. Only fair that you need to hold 2/3 of your forts..... Same deal as above, gives both sides some time to decide how they want to proceed.

There will be more successful invasions if either of these is implemented, and much better gameplay for all.

Everyone wins!

[tikinho]

Setting gate in danger is way easier now I like it but there are a few problems with the invasion mechanics.

Respawning at gates after 20 secs you have died makes the gate almost impossible to be broken on Horus unless invaders are way more than the defenders.

If you use the boats to enter the realm that you are invading you crash very often and you get teleported to the altar when you login which is very annoying, because you have to use teleport again or to walk the whole day back.
Also if you are in enemy realm and gate is vulnerable but you crash you teleport at altar when you login same story.
Also if you get near wall or gate from the inside you get teleported for no reason.

Is the gate meant to be attacked from inside or not, because now archers can shoot without problems but warriors get teleported after a few hits on the gate.

Please fix the annoying teleports when the gate is vulnerable and make the gate hp less to be easy to be broken, because its not fun for both the invading and the being invaded realms right now.
Gate is almost impossible to be broken but the realm that is being invaded has to camp it for two hours which is pretty boring and the realm that is trying to break the gate has to do almost impossible task and very fast give up on trying they use boats go for noble and after noble not much fun in enemy realm, because most of the enemies are camping gates in one huge zerg and if you kill some they respawn again there like altar camping.

Also camping altars is possible not that i don't like it. :)

[v0rt3x]

Dear players
As you'll see on monday with the Warmasters update we've made some changes to the invasion system.

We wanted to tell you about this changes so you can check them out and debate during the weekend.

What do we want to achieve with this changes:
1) To gather a bigger amount of users on the same location to help realms organize themselves.
2) to avoid camping by increasing numbers of defenders (we remind you that killing enemies in saves means no XP, loss of RP and it doesn't count for the daily adventures)
3) We want invasions to happen more frequently. Also, we need to have many battles at the same time in different locations so we don't overload the server and client.
4) Avoid a single realm to be constantly harassed.

solutions that were implemented:

1) and 2): One and only central save

3): New invasion mechanics
• The gate will be vulnerable when the realm looses control of all its fortifications for 15 minutes (it doesn't matter if those where taken by a single opposing realm or both of them)
• If the defending realm retakes one fortification the vulnerability ends.
• if the gate was broken and the defending realm retakes one fortification the gates will re-appear.
• maximum invasion time will be of 2 hours.

4) New invulnerability rule: If a realm looses all its gems it will become invulnerable and its fortifications will not be able to be taken unless they take back or steal a gem or one of the opposing realms visits the dragon. (now the invulnerable realm can take a fully offensive stance!)

Please don't take this changes as final as we plan to continue making modifications to invasions until we get them right and we need to test changes with live server's population. Think of this as an event ;)

Regards,

Chilko

EDIT: health of the realm gate has been greatly reduced too
This was an EPIC FAIL!


But the actual invasion mechanics (with boats) and save placing is a BIGGER EPIC FAIL!

I know, why NGD have implemented the boats:
3) We want invasions to happen more frequently. Also, we need to have many battles at the same time in different locations so we don't overload the server and client.
4) Avoid a single realm to be constantly harassed.

I can´t understand NGD anymore. :rale:

Please close this thread and take away the "Sticky".

[Seher]

I don't think the boats are that bad. New players should feel that there's a war going on. They just need more protection, but it's good if they see some enemies.

Just the saves are the biggest bullshit ever. I even fail to see what the advantage of this system on Ra might be. Being dependent on warmasters is always bad, you can't capture enemy forts that aren't completely empty, more running especially for beginners that don't have warmaster friends, etc. Those are the disadvantages. Advantages? Can't see any.

[ice_zero_cool]

I don't think the boats are that bad. New players should feel that there's a war going on. They just need more protection, but it's good if they see some enemies.

Just the saves are the biggest bullshit ever. I even fail to see what's the advantage of this system on Ra might be. Being dependent on warmasters is always bad, you can't capture enemy forts that aren't completely empty, more running especially for beginners that don't have warmaster friends, etc. Those are the disadvantages. Advantages? Can't see any.
completely my opinion!

I like the boats as an alternative entrance, you dont have to go to the gate everytime and you can - rather unseen - enter enemy realms.

Seher already said anything there is about them. On low population servers, this makes you dependant of warmasters and dependance on things like this is nothing good at all. I dont like warmaster spells anyways, but thats another topic. On high-pop servers, I dont see the advantage either, I cant imagine it being different than on low-pop ones.

[Darcyeti]

Completly agreeing with Seher but one thing.
The time where boats can be used is much to long with 120 minutes.

[ice_zero_cool]

Completly agreeing with Seher but one thing.
The time where boats can be used is much to long with 120 minutes.
well thats right, the boats should only be usable while the gates are opened...

[rogueish]

have to say I like most all of the new invasion mechanics except for the warmaster ports. The boats are a great addition to the game, the alters are something I can live with but dont really have a strong opinion about. But groups being able to port instantly from fort to fort has really taken a lot of the fun out of the game. Battles at the bridges used to be not only fun, but also a major strategic tool, now theyre totally irrelevant.

[Phinneas]

Confusing to see this listed as the new mechanics when it is not. Please unsticky it.