Marks Nerf

[existentialist]

Changes to mana magagement have significantly altered the fighting ability of the marks. Instead of being full on, we are now forced to use our skill-set sparingly. Critics of the previous capabilities of the marks would welcome this change, as it was believed that the marks class needed to be nerfed.

We have also seen a reduction in health when recharged arrows are used. As far as I know, no other class has been subjected to this extraordinary and unecessary measure. Why is that?

[Raindance]

As much as people have complained about marksmen prior to the update (and really, nothing has been solved at all, just an even bigger bowl of spaghetti), I think it's safe to say that we all would've preferred to have waited for a real balance update with the rest of the classes, instead of this mindless nerf, which NGD used to silence down the complainers for some time so they could be able to peacefully focus on new dances and pimped up ponies.

[dip1stick]

This is just another whine induced nerf, one thing NGD, not all marks have uber gears or rings and amulets, so this is a killer for the normal geared players, so now we get to commit suicide/help other realm players kill us, way to go No Good Developments:dumbofme:

[Lekarz]

Try Rage Quit :thumb: 151321513 thread about the same dear spammer

[Gabburtjuh]

Changes to mana magagement have significantly altered the fighting ability of the marks. Instead of being full on, we are now forced to use our skill-set sparingly. Critics of the previous capabilities of the marks would welcome this change, as it was believed that the marks class needed to be nerfed.

We have also seen a reduction in health when recharged arrows are used. As far as I know, no other class has been subjected to this extraordinary and unecessary measure. Why is that?

Because no other class is able to do 350-400 normals at medium + X% as speed from 42 passive range

[Tenel_Ka]

I actually like this nerf. Before it, I could spam whatever spells I wanted without worrying about mana supply, and kill warriors in close range fights. To me, that's wrong. If I'm in a short range fight with a barb, I should die.

I think the role of marksman is to be a long-range fighter, and this nerf encourages that, by penalizing those who use fast bows the most. Even with just a warmaster short bow I could tear through enemies at close range. The health and mana penalties of RA makes marksmen more reliant on being in a group, rather than solo hunting around wz. The nerf also makes marksmen think about what spells and buffs they're using, instead of just spamming.

I know there's a problem with how much damage certain marksmen can do at long range, but I've yet to see any good suggestions on how to address that issue without lowering marksmen damage (punishing those without OP gear) or decreasing the affect gear has (punishing those with OP gear). This is just my opinion, but I think this nerf is a step in the right direction, and I'm glad NGD has noticed how OP marksmen are in some situations.

[Lekarz]

Thats what would do Marksmans after this nerf if they get to NGD studio :
http://www.pown.it/5367
:jacky_chun:
and their response to it:
http://www.pown.it/5369

[_Emin_]

Thats what would do Marksmans after this nerf if they get to NGD studio :
http://www.pown.it/5367
:jacky_chun:
and their response to it:
http://www.pown.it/5369

I lol'ed

----

[blood-raven]

The way they nerfed it is retarded, there are a million better ways to nerf it, like make it fixed dmg or make it a buff with cd> duration, but no they pick the worst they could find.

[kmdk]

The way they nerfed it is retarded, there are a million better ways to nerf it, like make it fixed dmg or make it a buff with cd> duration, but no they pick the worst they could find.

Welcome to earth :D
I dont care anymore about marksman nerf,sample i dont play anymore marksman ,quit to play just because marks is just a pew pew now with tooth ,nothing more ,spamm 11 dmg over knights auras in RvR situation and ethereal +bow 5+ pew pew in PvP.Boring class ever now.

And i think lots of marks quit to play too ,in last week not saw too many of them ,max 3-4 once /realm ,but saw tons of hunters ,seems huters that complaint all days are back and spamming even more ambush 5 and confuse once at a few minuts you will see one or die by one around alsius OC.

Yes the way that marksman was nerfred it is stupid and just cut off growing population of them and non-premium.I think is just the objective that NGD want to touch and not nerf general marksman.Maybe i will play this class again ,but just dynamic gameplay of this class is complete dead ,just a pew pew with tooth spammer..fkn boring ...

I play atm warlock/hunter,has more dynamic in combat and by far more gameplay styles to chose from.Even can have more fun.

As i suggested in other thread RA shall be in arcane devotion style ,wtv ...noone will care ever ,ngd took decision about and nothing can be changed.

[Frosk]

As far as I know, no other class has been subjected to this extraordinary and unecessary measure. Why is that?

Hello!

This is mostly because no other class had the same huge advantage as the marksman on a single skill.

As any marksman would know, Recharged Arrows had a very minimal cost of mana, and it gave a +40% damage bonus at level 5.

With the increase on the level cap, characters had much more mana than before, and with that, the regen was a lot faster. Added to it, the regen itself has been increased on a old balance update.

These factors combined, had as a result that Recharged Arrows was a skill usable at all times, since the mana regen overcame the mana cost this skill had.
Basically, it was a +40% damage bonus at the cost of literally nothing, which is why marksmen were able to log-in or spawn at the save, activate RA and never deactivate it until they die or log-off.
It would be something as having a knight with Offensive Stance but without any armor penalty. :P

We can't deny that a decrease in marksmen will be seen, because a lot of people decided to take advantage of the overpowered characteristics of this subclass (we don't blame anyone for this, as it is a completely natural behavior), which gave the players the possibility to fulfill different purposes with the same skills' set and thus, all at the same time.
Now they have to choose a role by sacrificing whether damage, or defenses, or even cc skills; depending on the individual ability of the player.

Anyway, we thank you for taking your time to open up this thread and expose your point of view! :)

Regards!

[71175]

Hello!

This is mostly because no other class had the same huge advantage as the marksman on a single skill.

As any marksman would know, Recharged Arrows had a very minimal cost of mana, and it gave a +40% damage bonus at level 5.

With the increase on the level cap, characters had much more mana than before, and with that, the regen was a lot faster. Added to it, the regen itself has been increased on a old balance update.

These factors combined, had as a result that Recharged Arrows was a skill usable at all times, since the mana regen overcame the mana cost this skill had.
Basically, it was a +40% damage bonus at the cost of literally nothing, which is why marksmen were able to log-in or spawn at the save, activate RA and never deactivate it until they die or log-off.
It would be something as having a knight with Offensive Stance but without any armor penalty. :P

We can't deny that a decrease in marksmen will be seen, because a lot of people decided to take advantage of the overpowered characteristics of this subclass (we don't blame anyone for this, as it is a completely natural behavior), which gave the players the possibility to fulfill different purposes with the same skills' set and thus, all at the same time.
Now they have to choose a role by sacrificing whether damage, or defenses, or even cc skills; depending on the individual ability of the player.

Anyway, we thank you for taking your time to open up this thread and expose your point of view! :)

Regards!

But why u made such a ridiculous penalty on low lvl recharged? -43 mana on lvl1!?

[kmdk]

Now they have to choose a role by sacrificing whether damage, or defenses, or even cc skills; depending on the individual ability of the player.



Regards!

The issue in marksman is not only RA spell ,is that is cut dynamic gameplay of him,cuting off RA is not so huge issue ,but impossibility to use short bows ,and force to use only long bows it is the main issue.


There is nothing to chose from.
Just chose between long bow or long bow.

There is not this opportunity to chose from defenses or offenses ,you are able to take them almost all anyway at lvl 60.Just now use RA or not use.

Be a basic archer with birst of wind and ethereal arrow or be a marksmen that suicide with ethereal arrow and birst of wind.

[bois]

I don't think that this is the end point of balancing this spell. Rather, I hope it is not the end.

To me, it seems like a duct tape fix designed to one end. That end is to compel Marksmen to deactivate Recharged Arrows instead of using it as a passive.
I am not quite sure if any deeper thought was given to ramifications of gameplay. I am subject to correction on that.

I discussed why on other threads of similar nature. So I won't bore you here.

If the aim was to force Marksmen to consider deactivating it, why not just make the spell active instead of toggle and apply a conventional cast time, cool down, mana cost + mana per shot and duration ?

Wouldn't that achieve the same end ?

If the need for a toggle spell is so dire make foresight a toggle spell with the malus of attack speed for using it.

For me I see no arguments for short bow. At level 60 there are more than enough tools + defense for marks to operate in that space without RA at all. In that range it's a skill , spell selection and conditional thing.

Don't use Marks vs barb as an example. Those 2 classes need balancing stat!

[kmdk]

For me I see no arguments for short bow.

For you ...better play that class instead writing wall of text.

You cant compare a 100 dmg with RA from short bows ,with 500 normals using cold blod + a pet .... that deals around 250 dmg too ...
As marks you need to chose between 100 dmg and -34 HP /hit or 60-80 dmg /hit without RA.

Wtv go and play marksman with short bows if you see no reason in ,and maybe once you will understand.

[Shwish]

For you ...better play that class instead writing wall of text.

You cant compare a 100 dmg with RA from short bows ,with 500 normals using cold blod + a pet .... that deals around 250 dmg too ...
As marks you need to chose between 100 dmg and -34 HP /hit or 60-80 dmg /hit without RA.

Wtv go and play marksman with short bows if you see no reason in ,and maybe once you will understand.

Funny how his most of his post agrees with your opinion but you chose to quote only the one sentence that doesn't and start flaming him about it.

NGD has admitted that Recharged Arrows was not being used as they intended it to be used. You just going to have to get used to it as all the other classes that got nerfed in the past two years have gotten used to it.

I tried playing my marksman again because I thought this update might make the class fun again. Unfortunately I noticed very little difference, the class is still as boring and overpowered as ever. Even at level 54 the hp drain wasn't a big deal for me in outdated level 50 gear. Hopefully they do change something about it in the future.

[GreenAngel]

Nerfed? I heard the word nerfed somewhere? I don't see how Markses are really nerfed (exept from grinding lowbies). They still hit as high, they just have to sit down sometimes now, just like any other class...

Before anyone says I should play the class, I play all Classes

Amen

[71175]

Nerfed? I heard the word nerfed somewhere? I don't see how Markses are really nerfed (exept from grinding lowbies). They still hit as high, they just have to sit down sometimes now, just like any other class...

Before anyone says I should play the class, I play all Classes

Amen

lmao, to be fair, now my lvl54 marx is ducked up in grinding, u call dat lowbie?

[VandaMan]

Nerfed? I heard the word nerfed somewhere? I don't see how Markses are really nerfed (exept from grinding lowbies). They still hit as high, they just have to sit down sometimes now, just like any other class...

Before anyone says I should play the class, I play all Classes

Amen

^statements like this are completely missing the point of most of the complaints about the recharged arrows changes. Most reasonable marks completely accept the fact that they should be nerfed, and the ones complaining are mostly saying exactly what you're saying; the recharged arrows change does not do anything to the marks who need a nerf.

What needs nerfed is the way that recharged arrows (and similar effects) magnify the damage increase from really good gear. 50 damage bonus from a tenax amulet should give a marksman a 50 damage advantage over marksmen without one, not a 50 damage advantage +40% from RA, +30% from dead eye, and +10% from specialist. That turns a 50 damage advantage into a 90 damage advantage. Now imagine that with 2 boss rings and a 3 damage bonus epic bow with a +15 gem... an already insane ~180 (or more) damage advantage from uber gear becomes a ~324 (or more) advantage, because of these powers that scale your bonuses proportionally.

This and only this is the problem with marksman DPS itself, the other issues are range and armor related. The penalty on recharged arrows was not the issue, the bonus was.

[GreenAngel]

^statements like this are completely missing the point of most of the complaints about the recharged arrows changes. Most reasonable marks completely accept the fact that they should be nerfed, and the ones complaining are mostly saying exactly what you're saying; the recharged arrows change does not do anything to the marks who need a nerf.

What needs nerfed is the way that recharged arrows (and similar effects) magnify the damage increase from really good gear. 50 damage bonus from a tenax amulet should give a marksman a 50 damage advantage over marksmen without one, not a 50 damage advantage +40% from RA, +30% from dead eye, and +10% from specialist. That turns a 50 damage advantage into a 90 damage advantage. Now imagine that with 2 boss rings and a 3 damage bonus epic bow with a +15 gem... an already insane ~180 (or more) damage advantage from uber gear becomes a ~324 (or more) advantage, because of these powers that scale your bonuses proportionally.

This and only this is the problem with marksman DPS itself, the other issues are range and armor related. The penalty on recharged arrows was not the issue, the bonus was.

Sorry I should have quoted mr. Existentalist (or smth).