camping save?!

[boci the lock]

is this acceptable??



34736

34738

34739

[uncreative]

why not? its fun!!

[Eyfura]

Oh noez, evil syrtis once again in action!!!

34736
Because castle saves don't have save guards, who determines the area which is considered as save camping? I don't see any problem on this one, we are pretty much standing on the road.


34738
And then again, I still don't know the actual rules for server Haven as I have not seen any official announcement about this. I have seen rules for Raven only. Afterall, if you are afraid to die you maybe should not go warzone. If someone keep killing you at save, resurrect at realm gate.
I don't honestly know what should I think about this. If there is no any mechanism to prevent this from happening you can't expect it won't happen. The story is different if someone glitch save guards to repeatedly kill enemies to spawn at save, but the point is that there are no guards.
I don't know did you intentionally post screenshot of me standing there, but if we assume shaanarid save had save guards, the place where I am standing still would be out of their range.


34739
What is point of this screenshot? Syrtis got bored at shaana and was moving to samal. Should it be against rules to use shaana road? Maybe you should not stand there and dismount us if you don't want to die.

I guess you complain only for sake of complaining. And because it was evil syrtis who happened to piss off you.

[Pwnography]

Save != Safe.

[time-to-die]

So what.... if you want to go somewere els then respawn wall!

[Rising_Cold]

as much as i hate it, those screens wont show anything more than gelfs being assholes
but we already knew that they cant controll their groups and the idiots lead it to do these kind of things...

still this kind of stuff is not one of those things the other realms will just accept
even you guys should know that there are lines you shouldnt cross

shaan was boring.. ofcourse it was.. how could it not be..
go figure >.<

[Tigerious]

LoL. What is the point of this ?

I think Syrtians tried to go boats or somewhere else because we see them on horse. My guess is that you stopped them so it turned in a save camp because they couldn't leave while you attack them. Going via beach is still a way more long way to just avoid a save without guards so it's the default Syrtis/?Goats? road to go away from Shaanarid castle.

Like mentioned above you could resurrect Gate. If this choice was not available this means there is a wrong game mechanism.

This remind me what happened in inner Ignis once, we were hunting with a clanmate/friend and then when we were near Medenet save altar, a very very low level kept coming to us. This was a really stupid move from someone who is supposed to be over 18 year old in EU and 13+ in USA. This resulted in GM/GC (Peyton) that kicked us out for save camp while this one wasn't equipped of a guard. I don't even know why this kind of kick should be allowed when it's related to the player brainless attitude.

[Ulti19]

I don't even understand why save camping is seen as bad. It's a wargame in a warzone and if a player attacks you near a save he can get banned and these rules aren't even clearly stated... They once introduced negative rp near save kills. Then they introduced the op guards there which makes it super hard to fight near a save anyways. So why would you make a rule not to be able to fight near a save? Sometimes taking a group to saves to fight the enemy there would bring awesome fights.

If you continue getting your butt handed to you by save, rez at the gate. But I guess someone will complain that fighting by the gate should be against the rules one day then too:p I can see how it would suck if you're one man against like 6 at your save. Just rez at gate then, and if it's a central save, chances are an awesome fight would happen as more people arrive there.

[ieti]

Believe it or not noyone can control the zerg. The more we try the more we fail. :ranting:

So sooner or later it is main group goes back and leaves the farmers to die. It is tough move which most of times cost us forts, but that is how it is...

Alot suiciders we have usually.

[Evangeline]

its another "mommy mommy please ban those meanie gelfs cuz they kill us when we try to stop them from passing by us" thread, i think its in the wrong forums, you might have more attention in gamesamba forum.

"Look at this meanie gelf! (eyfura) better take a screenshot to see if gamesamba can ban them for save camping that will surely make my realm stronger"

"If i get closer maybe i can get them to kill us and use screenshots as evidence to get some gelfs banned heheh"

don't forget to send the video you recorded :>

[c-toon]

Man all i have to say is save camping is lame

we all disagree and agree with these types of problems

but at the end of the day we can all agree on one thing ppl

and that's that gelfs suck

[uncreative]

Man all i have to say is save camping is lame

we all disagree and agree with these types of problems

but at the end of the day we can all agree on one thing ppl

and that's that gelfs suck
we all know, ignis sucks!!

[boci the lock]

u can see many igneans at the save...
then
a)or gelfs r realy fast to come from shaan to save
b)gelfs were camping save....
cuzz that igneans were not afk
and if they were...
u would kill them

[blood-raven]

u can see many igneans at the save...
then
a)or gelfs r realy fast to come from shaan to save
b)gelfs were camping save....
cuzz that igneans were not afk
and if they were...
u would kill them

c) we love ignis so much we like to hugh you and snuggle and kiss you so bad we're like camping your saves desperate for you to come back for more hughs and kisses and snuggles.
You din't think this think of this option.

[bois]

My Shanna save formula.

1. Don't save there.
2. If you are grinding and you have to save, know the GM on duty. Optionally, if you are ganked, rez at wall and seek help at CS.
3. If there is no help and Gm useless, find another spot.

In the case of a group vs group as the images suggest you can do the following:
1. Your rez point is close so keep pounding at the campers (especially the conjus). The rest will be easier after that. If you are grossly outnumbered, no point using as a save anyway because you will make no ground so, rez to wall and let em rot.
2. Never save at Shanna altar unless you have to. There is almost not reason to save there unless you think you can eject the new owners. Even then, it must be an invasion attempt by opponents to even consider it. If you count more than 3 conjus, forget it and prepare to be invaded, or go back with overwhelming force for one go.
If they have Shanna alone, let them rot there. Wait Samal till they try it. If there is an invasion and the usual mathematics apply ie: 3:1 ratios, you probably cant get Shanna back any way, so DON'T save there.
3. if farming is what the new owners are about, flip the script and travel to an opposing fort/ castle and take it. If they still don't move, take another. Dare I say it ? If they farming, DON't save there :P.

Remember, the game has a number of grey areas which (some) players are quite happy to exploit as far as they can .Whether they have a moral compass or are morally bankrupt is subjective. Remember, the morally bankrupt will do something because they can and then try to justify it by some technicality or grey area subject to loose interpretation. There is no right or wrong, just how far they can push the envelope. Just thank your lucky stars you don't have to live with them.
Shanna save just happens to be one grey area courtesy NGD decision. Live with it. Apply the formula above.
Golden Rule : Don't save there.

[smeagle_errei]

lol
So if i'm ignean i cant Save at shaan cuzz its only more 1 spot to be killing by gelfs???
are u seriously??:dumbofme:

[Shwish]

I'm all against save camping, but honestly these screenshots isn't enough evidence that they where in-fact "save camping".

How long were they at your save?
Did they kill you more than once?
Were they waiting for you to re-spawn before killing you again?
Why does only one of your screenshots show the game-time on it?
Was it all of them camping the save or just a couple who decided to not follow the rest of the zerg?

Those are some of questions I would ask.

[pieceofmeat]

It is an unguarded WZ save, take it for what it is.
If it is too dangerous to resurrect there you go elsewhere, imo its only save camping if you are unable to leave or to resurrect elsewhere.

Not wanting to leave, do not make it less lame to reskill you, but it certainly shouldnt be bannable to do so if you choose to stick around.

Save campers may be a lot of things, but they are far from being as low as the lame assholes that would consider reporting someone for it.

[bois]

lol
So if i'm ignean i cant Save at shaan cuzz its only more 1 spot to be killing by gelfs???
are u seriously??:dumbofme:

The point is the save is unguarded so it is wise to have some sort of plan if you want to stay there. It is not like the others where you have 1 shot kill NPC assassins to assist you. Shaana save requires you to have a thought process going on.
I did list options you could take. It is just my biased view you should not save there except for grinding purposes.

Besides, all the castle saves have no guards. In that way it is balanced. In a sense , it is quite easy for Alsarians to get camped at their castle save as well. The Syrtis one is much more open so it is slightly more difficult.

Other than that, I wrote some ideas in this thread, on the same topic. http://www.regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91965

[Imago-Thunderfist]

Well, since the save is in the war zone and almost literally on the route from Shaan to Samal, or from [almost anywhere] to Shaan I think that these saves are not meant as safe havens. In general I don't mind save campers, because it's in the war-zone.

1 thing however I can't stand, like what happened not so long ago, Alsius gate was vulnerable. Not many goats were on and a level 36 marksman got repeatedly killed by 2 level 60 hunters at a save (inner-realm), he couldn't ress at gate (vulnerability). In the 5 minutes it took me to get there and kill those two hunters they killed him 7-8 times. I would like to see some way of preventing this, not through rules and threatening with bans, but something that works a 100%.

P.S. That marksman could have logged off to escape from these hunters, but I doubt that's what NGD had in mind. In my opinion there should not be anything preventing from save-camping, because everyone should have the decency to gank once and move on.

[Raoh]

Believe it or not noyone can control the zerg. The more we try the more we fail. :ranting:

So sooner or later it is main group goes back and leaves the farmers to die. It is tough move which most of times cost us forts, but that is how it is...

Alot suiciders we have usually.

Two paradox laws clearly apply here.

When the Herd Menality Paradox exists (which clearly states -- As the number of people in a group increases, intelligence in the group exponentially decreases), it then causes Stapp's Ironical paradox to exist (which states -- The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle.)

For those who need a basic translation of that. When a huge group of people get together to do things, they become stupid. There after anything they do seems absolutely miraculous and achieving of the impossible.

[errei]

A pity that those ss r a crap...
Yes, they were farming, yes, they killed us alot of times IN the altar space, yes, the 3º ss is meanless, and yes, the GM kicked some of the melees who were there, but 5mins after that, they came back to do the same.

[Quincebo]

As much as i dislike save camping, you cannot ban a whole zerg.
But that doesn't make it right.

[roonwick]

As much as i dislike save camping, you cannot ban a whole zerg.


sure you can. it's just more typing.

[Evangeline]

keep sending vids of you luring syrtis to save that will surely ban some more gelfs :p

[Casting_beast]

you cannot ban a whole zerg.

sure you can. it's just more typing.

Realm balance FTW xD.

[Lekarz]

Game Samba crew banned some people for doing this... Shaan save I see...
But these are from Syrtis and they CAN'T BE BANNED or NGD/GS crew lose money-cows which they milk :dumbofme:
However as few said before, it's war zone and it's normal that they camp it (idea of guard-less Castle Save is horrible, better delete it at all)

I am glad that I left this game, it's getting more and more stupid after Horus&Raven fuse :thumb:
You made rules and you do not make them true...

[Shwish]

Game Samba crew banned some people for doing this... Shaan save I see...
But these are from Syrtis and they CAN'T BE BANNED or NGD/GS crew lose money-cows which they milk :dumbofme:


If you honestly believe that NDG are money milking cows then it means you obviously haven't played many other free-to-play games. And NGD/GS would lose alot more paying customers if they didn't do something about people breaking the rules.

Nice to see more narrow-minded people who believe NGD is the devil and all players from Raven are noobs. I'll see you back in the game when you realize most other mmorpg producers are ten times worse than what you believe NGD are.

[Lekarz]

Nice to see more narrow-minded people who believe NGD is the devil and all players from Raven are noobs. I'll see you back in the game when you realize most other mmorpg producers are ten times worse than what you believe NGD are.

Where I typed that Raven people are noobs? You only don't have well-skilled conjurers, thats all :hat:
About your idea of my come back... I have to make you sad, I will never happen.
You can save my post and wait forever for my come back :bounce:

[Frosk]

Hello everyone,

Usually, camping a particular spot means killing enemies without them having any chance to fight back, and/or respawn elsewhere, which derives in getting killed over and over.

On our saves, this is not the case, since when the realm is safe, it lets you respawn at the Realm Gate.

However, we'll consider if it's necessary to move the saves to an area not so far away from the roads leading to the castles, so these can include save guards like the rest of the resurrection altars.

Best,

[Quincebo]

.
Thank you Frosk, that will do the trick :D

[Slartibartfast]

Hello everyone,

Usually, camping a particular spot means killing enemies without them having any chance to fight back, and/or respawn elsewhere, which derives in getting killed over and over.

On our saves, this is not the case, since when the realm is safe, it lets you respawn at the Realm Gate.

However, we'll consider if it's necessary to move the saves to an area not so far away from the roads leading to the castles, so these can include save guards like the rest of the resurrection altars.

Best,

Hello Frosk,

Considering Gelfs camping and your statement, I demand to investigate why was I (Exorcist), DARTH MALGUS and some other Alsians kicked from server while we were camping Eferias save, just few minutes ago (08:20PM / CET)? Gelfs gate weren't vulnerable or destroyed.

Thank you.

--
Slartibartfast / Exorcist

[Raoh]

Hello Frosk,

Considering Gelfs camping and your statement, I demand to investigate why was I (Exorcist), DARTH MALGUS and some other Alsians kicked from server while we were camping Eferias save, just few minutes ago (08:20PM / CET)? Gelfs gate weren't vulnerable or destroyed.

Thank you.

--
Slartibartfast / Exorcist


Hrmmm, Eden, that is not cool at all.

[Slartibartfast]

Hrmmm, Eden, that is not cool at all.

Concerning:

1. Gelfs camping without any consequences
2. Frosk statement that it isn't illegal to camp it because there is a possibility to res at gate
3. Unwritten and uknown rules on this subject

... I can only conclude that we were kicked without any valid reason from server, and as a player who plays and supports game I demand the explanation. If no explanation is given, I will consider that some gelf GM abused his authority by kicking us and thus helping the Syrtis realm beyond his authority. In this case, I demand that GM who did it bear the consequences.

Otherwise, I can only conclude that Gelfs are allowed to do things that other realms aren't. Is this all about?

--
Slartibartfast / Exorcist

[Quincebo]

I gues you make conclusions too early.
Best is too send a ticket, cause you might want to get personal and need to call names, which is not allowed in public forums

[Slartibartfast]

I gues you make conclusions too early.
Best is too send a ticket, cause you might want to get personal and need to call names, which is not allowed in public forums

I would rather this subject to get cleared in public, as the future reference.

--
Slartibartfast / Exorcist

[Rising_Cold]

hey slarti, you didnt actually went as low as to camp a save did you?
I get that you dont want to be kicked off a server and try to get it in public
and yes it does sound unfair, but..

you actually went and camped a save?
I guess i am a poor judge of character after all :(

[Slartibartfast]

hey slarti, you didnt actually went as low as to camp a save did you?
I get that you dont want to be kicked off a server and try to get it in public
and yes it does sound unfair, but..

you actually went and camped a save?
I guess i am a poor judge of character after all :(

I was on my conju, healing guys who were attacking gelfs, on the way to Eferias.

[Tigerious]

I was on my conju, healing guys who were attacking gelfs, on the way to Eferias.

Like we explained before, on one screenshot you will notice "gelfs" on horses so this means you are totally wrong.

People weren't camping save but tried to get out of Shaanarid area and peninsula.

And what Frosk is trying to tell you is that since the save is on the only faster/closer way to get out of this area is why this one don't have any guard because else it would be too easy to get killed around.

So if the save don't have guard this means it's is allowed to kill around it and also camp it because the stupid people choose the resurrect altar instead of using the resurrect gate available option.

[Tigerious]

And here is some random definition :

war zone 
noun
(during wartime) a combat area in which the rights of neutrals are suspended, as such an area on the high seas, where ships flying a neutral flag are subject to attack.

[Slartibartfast]

Like we explained before, on one screenshot you will notice "gelfs" on horses so this means you are totally wrong.

People weren't camping save but tried to get out of Shaanarid area and peninsula.

And what Frosk is trying to tell you is that since the save is on the only faster/closer way to get out of this area is why this one don't have any guard because else it would be too easy to get killed around.

So if the save don't have guard this means it's is allowed to kill around it and also camp it because the stupid people choose the resurrect altar instead of using the resurrect gate available option.

I see you can write but you can't read. At least, you haven't read what I wrote.

--
Slartibartfast / Exorcist

[Hopeakettu]

Ehm Tiger, I'm not sure if you cared to read Slarti's posts properly - he's actually defending save camping at castle saves. The subject of his posts aren't syrtians "camping" Shaan save (as the OP claims) but goats camping Efe save and getting kicked by GM for that.

And it wasn't really necessary to post a definition of WZ (and I'm sure you could come up with a better one yourself). Better avoid posting stuff like that - someone might remember that there's one definition on Urban Dictionary... :superpusso:

[Tigerious]

You also don't read too.

I was saying that maybe you weren't about to leave Eferias area but just do only camp save.

[Slartibartfast]

Ehm Tiger, I'm not sure if you cared to read Slarti's posts properly - he's actually defending save camping at castle saves. The subject of his posts aren't syrtians "camping" Shaan save (as the OP claims) but goats camping Efe save and getting kicked by GM for that.

Actually, I'm far from defending save camping. I just want to clear things up. Why gelfs are tollerated and Alsians are kicked off the server for the same thing.

P.S. Couldn't forget when today 5 brainless gelfs were chasing me from Trelle to Trelle save, and all got killed by guard, one by one. It was nice to watch xD

--
Slartibartfast / Exorcist

[Tigerious]

[...]Why gelfs are tollerated and Alsians are kicked off the server for the same thing.[...]

So make this clear too, you are not talking about the screenshots posted to the first post ?

[Slartibartfast]

So make this clear too, you are not talking about the screenshots posted to the first post ?

No. I'm not refering to any of screenshots.

--
Slartibartfast / Exorcist

[errei]

You also don't read too.

I was saying that maybe you weren't about to leave Eferias area but just do only camp save.

it wasnt the case, man.
gelfs were farming shaan, then started to camp save. after about 1 hour camping and farming, they left shaan and went samal (3rd pic)
the 1st and the 2nd SSs r a shit, but its true that they were camping.
the 3rd SS was made after all, when gelfs were realy leaving shaan to go samal, as u said.

[Cannas]

Castle saves should to get guards, easy to solve the problem

[smeagle_errei]

Castle saves should to get guards, easy to solve the problem

+1
But guards would kill every1 who pass road :/

[Raoh]

So make this clear too, you are not talking about the screenshots posted to the first post ?

Tiger, I think you need to read post 32 a little more clearly.

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showpost.php?p=1641570&postcount=32

Specifically

other Alsians kicked from server while we were camping Eferias save, just few minutes ago (08:20PM / CET)? Gelfs gate weren't vulnerable or destroyed.

[Eyfura]

That is bullshit "only" alsius get kicked for save camping. I have seen syrtis getting kicked too for same reason, on pretty much same situation (gate safe). Nothing to complain about alsius having disadvantage.

This reminds me of the latest save system, when saves were tied to each fort. Every day someone tried to save camp us but yet people didn't start such cry about it. Those saves sucked tho.

[Slartibartfast]

That is bullshit "only" alsius get kicked for save camping. I have seen syrtis getting kicked too for same reason, on pretty much same situation (gate safe). Nothing to complain about alsius having disadvantage.

I have seen flying cows, but I can't tell you when and where.

--
Slartibartfast / Exorcist

[Quincebo]

I have seen flying cows, but I can't tell you when and where.
Guess your trying to be funny?

Eyfu just pointed out that not only alsius gets kicked for save camping

[Slartibartfast]

Guess your trying to be funny?

Eyfu just pointed out that not only alsius gets kicked for save camping

I would like to know when and were exactly gelfs were kicked for save camping. Some imaginary "gelfs are kicked too" doesn't mean a thing.

And most important - why were you (let's say it's true) kicked for save camping when Frosk cleary stated that save camping is quite legit situation?

--
Slartibartfast / Exorcist

[bois]

If they move all the Castle saves and put guards , that would be the simplest solution and the end of the issue. I suggest they do just that.

Leaving it as it causes problems not only on a community level but, also leads to issues of prejudice, allegations of realm favouritism by NGD/GS staff and administrative headaches in terms of GM policing and randomly enforced nebulous rules.

There are other ways to remedy the issue , but for the sake of haste, The above solution is the quickest and simplest.
Maybe the community should be offering up alternative locations for those saves at this point rather than "he did ,she did" useless arguments.

In that vein , I would suggest moving the save to X4117 , Z3101 which is behind and above the NPC Sigfrid. Modify the terrain a little to give a mesa type formation so people don't rez and instantly take fall damage. If required, move Sigfrid from its current location.

[Eyfura]

I would like to know when and were exactly gelfs were kicked for save camping. Some imaginary "gelfs are kicked too" doesn't mean a thing.

And most important - why were you (let's say it's true) kicked for save camping when Frosk cleary stated that save camping is quite legit situation?

--
Slartibartfast / Exorcist

I am not saying names who got kicked, but it happened at shaana save, around 2 weeks ago. Does not matter for me anyway do you believe that or not.

Second, because it seems NGD and gamesamba have different visions about some things. Save camping is just one example. On horus we were pretty free without rules and raven had rules. It seems most of the "rules" now on Haven are adopted from Raven.
I am still waiting for official announcement about rules(list?) - what is accepted and what is not. Something that apply to both NGD and gamesamba users.
I don't even know is that save camping rule valid anymore since server merge as example. They never asked me to accept such rule, or I guess I have to read again the user agreement.

[Raoh]

So basically , Eyfura what your saying is that Horus was likened to Somalia (a country without any semblence of rule or law) and that Raven was a bit more like Monarchist England (rules dictated by a higher authority without the expressed input from its citizens).

Im not sure which of those is actually better than the other. Rules have benefits, and No Rules has benefits too, it just seems less logical that the latter is any better than the former.

As far as EULAs go, well, not that anyone reads them anymore, but I think there are one or two out there (the humor of MIT License ridden unix geeks) that suggest breaking the EULA means for you to pass the sacrifice of bread on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity, upon your breaking of said EULA. :)

[Tamui]

So basically , Eyfura what your saying is that Horus was likened to Somalia (a country without any semblence of rule or law) and that Raven was a bit more like Monarchist England (rules dictated by a higher authority without the expressed input from its citizens).

Im not sure which of those is actually better than the other. Rules have benefits, and No Rules has benefits too, it just seems less logical that the latter is any better than the former.

As far as EULAs go, well, not that anyone reads them anymore, but I think there are one or two out there (the humor of MIT License ridden unix geeks) that suggest breaking the EULA means for you to pass the sacrifice of bread on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity, upon your breaking of said EULA. :)
dat sarcasm
Horus wasn't up-tighted as it is now. Last time I heard is that if you attack a save you'll get banned. Not camping it. I don't know anymore which are the correct rules or not but +
I'd like some declaration

[Quincebo]

We have been asking for a decent rule list for years.
Same as the discussion we had some time ago about protecting realm gems in central save....or hiding a realm gem on a place were it cannot be taken

[pauluzz]

Hello everyone,

Usually, camping a particular spot means killing enemies without them having any chance to fight back, and/or respawn elsewhere, which derives in getting killed over and over.

On our saves, this is not the case, since when the realm is safe, it lets you respawn at the Realm Gate.



Frosk, having said this, do you approve Gamesamba to kick players near save/camping save?

---
@ startiblah, calm down man.. I got kicked too. Was just trying to secure the road from shana to samal so that my realm mates could pass.

Its pretty frustrating that pigs could pew pew and laugh their ass off knowing I can't cross that line..

[Phlue4]

Hello everyone,

Usually, camping a particular spot means killing enemies without them having any chance to fight back, and/or respawn elsewhere, which derives in getting killed over and over.

On our saves, this is not the case, since when the realm is safe, it lets you respawn at the Realm Gate.

However, we'll consider if it's necessary to move the saves to an area not so far away from the roads leading to the castles, so these can include save guards like the rest of the resurrection altars.

Best,


Suggestion:
Leave the range/damage as it is now, but safe guards may ONLY attack those enemies who assault the people standing near the safe (and maybe also instantly kill those in range ~10 in order to prevent realms to gather at foreign safes).
This would solve all regarding problems.

D:......................

[GreenAngel]

Actually, I'm far from defending save camping. I just want to clear things up. Why gelfs are tollerated and Alsians are kicked off the server for the same thing.

P.S. Couldn't forget when today 5 brainless gelfs were chasing me from Trelle to Trelle save, and all got killed by guard, one by one. It was nice to watch xD

--
Slartibartfast / Exorcist

Lol whut? We got kicked from the server for camping Shaan Save as well, what you say is absolute nonsense. I know we (Syrtians) may sound / look like fools who always got the advantage over things, but before talking such bs, make sure your arguments are somewhat correct. Which they aren't right now. There is no such thing as "favourite Realms".

P.S. You got killed at a safe so you're mad now? Whut?