We are not nerfing support conjurers

[Skjringsaal]

I agree with your vision, but I find much more funny a conjurer who can bring support to 20 players since kill people is much more funny than heal and give mana to others who can do it. Now that you are rapairing the knight powers, you finally created a way of "protecting" them because they are appreciated.

About what you said of redesign summon discipline, you could nerf it, you could put one summon in 19 position (Máx), but a mage can play 4 disciplines, so I think you should make it THE way to atack for conjurers. So they would protect the summons and use their powers but they couldn't use mental, or the would choose mental but couldn't use a summon. Just a suggestion-observation.

[e30G]

My suggestion in redistributing powers in the Life Tree:

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...27&postcount=1

I believe this is simple enough to implement and may improve balance better by limiting Warjurer builds.

Of course you might have other (new) spell additions in mind. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your plans.

[Gytha_Ogg]

Originally Posted by Faladithz

About what you said of redesign summon discipline, you could nerf it, you could put one summon in 19 position (Máx), but a mage can play 4 disciplines, so I think you should make it THE way to atack for conjurers. So they would protect the summons and use their powers but they couldn't use mental, or the would choose mental but couldn't use a summon. Just a suggestion-observation.

Summons at 19 renders the tree useless until level 37. I would rather see something like fewer choices of summons, but you can still get them earlier to help with leveling. Make them fairly weak, but add skills to give them more health, damage, defense, etc, so you have to spend more points to get a good warzone-ready summons, and reduce the points you can use in other trees.

The boosts could be tuned to keep things in balance - the Orange Juice spell might supply 10/20/30/40/50% health boosts or 5/10/15/20/25% as balance dictates. The power curves on other skills could also be tuned, so you need lots of points in Mental to be a good Mental warju, which means it would be harder to scrape together enough points for a really good summon.

This would have to be tuned so that grinding isn't impossible, but maybe more in line with what the other classes go through. Make support grinding more attractive, so that conjs get to practice support skills earlier and feel less need to use (and get used to using) a grind/warju setup.

[Kittypretty]

I dont see why a support conj cannot take care of large groups of ppl..its a simple reason that so many few conjs..is because its just not a fun way to play for most. They want to kill, and not just spend their time helping other people, unless they have a valid reason too. Right now there isnt.

Support makes horrible xp and rp, mana costs ave risen while skills got nerfed, so its takes sometimes 2x the mana to achieve the same gain as an old skill used to do. Ambitious sacrifice was fine when skills cost was lower, yet they have risen, and effectiveness lowered, yet these critical skills stay the same. I think thats why so many people complained about the GH nerf, because its literally crippling a spell to half the value, and yet remaining high in a tree, and high in cost, with no benefit for the conjurer himself.

The summon isnt op i think, it lies in Staff mastery, the ability to use multiple magnifications, and the accel with the same duration as cooldown, this is especially over powered in Ignis, because of the imbalanced quest items.
2 ring of lightning and light tunic gives a 14% attack speed bonus without even considering gear. I would trade my worthless 2x Deadly sight rings' 50 dmg for 10% attack speed any day.

900 mana is simply not enough to support even 2 people, and mana communions is far too slow, allies can burn mana faster than it regens, to the point of its only use is to use on people already resting..except no one will level staff mastery to the point for a single spell thas not very good. its on the wrong tree anyways, it should replace metabolic, which doesnt work anyways, or at least no real noticable effect..which in game terms means "no conceiveable buff means no buff at all"

I like playing conjurer but its far easier to just use the class in a way not intended because these skills are still available and easy to use without any skill. there is no real advantage or desire to play support, because its frustraing, to be out of mana, so easily crippled with confuse because no offense and needing to be cared for because everyone attacks conjurers first..i dont wish to have their defense lowered at all..they do need to tank, because theyre priority target. what needs to change is their imbalanced offense when combined with that defense. so offense needs to be toned..and support enhanced to be more in line with high cost spells of allies, like such spells as onslaught with their 1/3 of effect and still 100% of cost.

[Gytha_Ogg]

Originally Posted by Kittypretty

mana communions is far too slow, allies can burn mana faster than it regens, to the point of its only use is to use on people already resting..except no one will level staff mastery to the point for a single spell thas not very good. its on the wrong tree anyways, it should replace metabolic, which doesnt work anyways, or at least no real noticable effect..which in game terms means "no conceiveable buff means no buff at all"

I think it used to be in a more reasonable tree, but was moved so conjs would have to make tough decisions about where to spend their points. The trouble with SM is that you can't help thinking since you had to level the tree to 15, you might as well put a point or two into Fire Mag...then "Hey, Fire mag and Ice mag stack? cool!" and pretty soon Darth is saying "Your journey to the Dark Side is complete."

Mana Communion - the gateway drug to warjuing.

[Isemon]

Chilko i hope you will be able to make this class more appealing, because actually it is too hard and frustrating to play, that's why everyone go for warjurer(that is simple to play) or just choose another class. I love this class, but i find more fun playing the other 5 classes, and i think that a lot of users would agree with me that being a conjurer is frustrating. Zarkits are not such a big problem as you may think, since 2-3 hits are enough to kill them in a war, or they just get stole by warlocks.

I played for 3 years now, and i saw a lot of changes to this class, due to this changes you made warjurer more appealing than conjurer, and the ones that still play conjurer(i am one of them) doesn't find it fun like before or compared to the other classes.

You said that the conju was able to keep 50 people alive, and i agree with that, before he was too much, but compared to the actually state we can see that, as usual, you nerfed too much, actually the conjurer is able to keep alive and support properly around 10 people.

Another thing that i would like to say is that continious going in attack mode for a conju is useless and frustrating, why should a conjurer go in attack mode if he doesn't even attack O.o? I know many players went to warjurer setup due to this change saing that at least the have a real reason to go in attack mode for each spell they are casting. Really this feature break a lot the fun for a conjurer always pressing ctrl to go back in non-attack mode.

I am sorry for my bad english, i tried to be clear.

[ieti]

Actually in today's state conjurer can not keep alive even 2-3 ppl. In pre 1.0 good conjurers was able to fully support 6-10 ppl. By fully support i mean heal in time and do not get people die if badly targeted, give mana to who needs, dispell...etc etc etc.

Today's state is sad and definitely not fun compared to pre 1.0. This wonderful class lost his fluid and fast placed gameplay. Lost his mana balance, and lost his survival(some call it tanking). As highly targeted class conjurer must tank and be hard to kill. Now the case is not this.

I hope with return of supportive knights things to go better.

I still think 6-8-10 ppl is reasonable number of allies conjurer can full support. This is actually 1 party. Before it was possible to do so. Now i do not think it is possible - if conjurer is alone with that number of allies he is out of mana too fast and can not do his job properly.

Conjurer have to be enought to support 1 party and self. This must be included in conjurer balance estimations.

Chilko i think you can gather good information of gameplay if you can place some log on key players of different classes across servers. This way you can see what spells are used, how and what they achieve by this. Maybe it will give ideas of what can be made better, fixed, adjusted etc etc etc.

[Duplo]

My pleasure as support conjurer is helping people and sometimes charge ennemies. I love charging syrtis on pp2 bridge with 2 warlock (Chapela, Dartz...) and some other barbarian protecting them with mana pylon and greather healing and blessing them. When I do that I'm very vulnerable, I cannnot defend myself (due to my skills), no heal self I prefer spending point on bless (and bless weapon), Divine intervention, Dispell (and mass dispell), some on mana tree than supporting myself.

With the "new" Greather Healing, well I will no more go with them, some marksann (or hunter) make me more than 400 normal hit, without heal I will no stay alive long time.

I'm agree that greather healing could be too powerfull, but not alone. With 3 conjurer that have it active, 120 health/sec is a little too much. But when you are the only one support conjurer (most of case regrettably) that 10 people ask you healt (vida) or mana, grather healing is the only way to give a little to everyone.
I still can do with your new spell but few player that need mana think to move next to a mage with mana communion; few player almost dead think to go next to conjurer with greather healing. Do you really think player that need too be healed will wait next to a mage hoping he is a conjurer and will cast greather healing? Of course no...

You want greather healing be less powerful, just make it not combinable (I mean 3 time greather healing= 40 health/sec no more 120); make that the spell do not work through wall and gate, forcing conjurer to go outside fort...
But let the spell heal people that come near us to be healed, and give us health also.

Originally Posted by chilko

one conjurer was able to take care of groups of 50 users and had broken spells like protection dome covering 100% of everything because of a bug.
Our objective is to have more support conjurers.

When I'm the only one conjurer, I can survive if I use mumble to send warrior to kill the hunter that just confuse me. If I don't have grather healing on, I don't survive 20 sec...
I learned with some valhalla when hunting together to cast greather healing at the begining of the second fight, when the enemy know you are the conjurer. So I still heal people, and sometime it give a little more time to warrior to kill the hunter or the pet if the hunter wait behind a rock.

Originally Posted by chilko

We believe that the lack of support conjurers is because of some possible summon + heavy defence configurations that you guys call Warjurers.
Warjurers are more attractive because they have all of the defense benefits of the conjurers + a completely unbalanced and broken summon discipline

I don't see any of these spell modified in the current state of the modification there. Nerf the mental tree, nerf the summon tree, nerf the Staff Mastery tree and the sorcery, I don't care as support conjurer I have:

Mental : lvl 3
Mana Control : lvl 19
- Energy Borrow (2)
- Ambitious Sacrifice (3)
- Mana Pool (5)
- Mana Pylon (5)
Enchentments : lvl 19
- Bless (5)
- Bless Weapon (5)
- Dispel Magic (5)
- Mass Dispel Magic (5)
Soin : lvl 19
- Heal Self (3)
- Heal Ally (5)
- Resurrect (5)
- Regenerate Self (2)
- Regenerate Ally (5)
- Divine Intervention (5)
- Greater Healing (5)
Sorcery : lvl 19
Summon : lvl 3

Originally Posted by chilko

Our idea is that people will need more specialization (so only attack or only support conju will be available) and we will also offer some cool skills to the ones choosing the support path.

With this configuration I think you cannot say I'm not a only support conjurer. I even cannot survive alone I can cast 3 spell level 1 while confused [Arcane Missile - Beetle Swarm - Mana Burn ]... I support OTHER player (et pourtant ils me tapent sur les nerfs parfois).
I don't see how your proposition on greather healing will offer me a "cool skills"? Can someone explain me that?

Finally, if you decide to kill greather healing (I don't see that like a nerf it worst that nerfing), can you give me the url of a good tutorial to become warjurer and the name of someone that could learn me to play like a warjurer on alsius Ra (sorry but I want to have fun, I will no more play lys Borda as support conjurer with so great spell)?

[Gourmandine]

Originally Posted by Duplo

Nerf the mental tree, nerf the summon tree, nerf the Staff Mastery tree and the sorcery, I don't care as support conjurer I have:[...]

It's true it won't hurt conjurer who play support, but it means we'll no more have fun in arena (a place where I go with friends when I need a break in supporting or when wz is empty). With no mental skills, we will no more be able to fight in this place. I don't care if summon or staff mastery are nerfed as I don't use them in arena (I don't see where is the fun in asking a bot to kill my opponent, it's not what I call playing), but imo summon is needed for grinding as you can't force conjurer to grind in support mode (you don't always have enough people to grind with). If you want to nerf it, just make summons unable to attack players.

[e30G]

Originally Posted by Duplo

Nerf the mental tree, nerf the summon tree, nerf the Staff Mastery tree and the sorcery,

Sorcery has some of the best defensive spells for a support conjurer. Some of the best support Conjurers out there are also relying on Mental spells to protect themselves and their allies.

I also disagree with moving Mana Communion from Staff Mastery. It will be too easy to setup a Conjurer if you do that. I'd rather see better support spells on the Staff Mastery tree. Even with Protection Dome nerf, SM still has Static Field which does help quite a bit in assisting your army get away from an impending warrior rush.