Soul keeper

[ncvr]

Originally Posted by Catelyn

And please don't tell me the lock have to freeze the enemy, it's dumb to freeze an enemy who already got hit while the others are attacking him, or when he's knocked(special note for marksman spamming winterstroke), it usually saves an archers life (sotw/low profile),and you don't have time for that, or even to darkness him before.

So what's more important, your life or their life? You're a lock, you don't have to put up with that shit

Originally Posted by Catelyn

In a small group (anything but zergs), we need to attack the same target to be efficient, mages/barbs always comes first.
Using soulkeeper in those situations will be hard.

In other words, they're dying too fast. So if they're dying too fast...why the hell are you dying?

You can SK a secondary target, it puts pressure on healers. Spread the dmg around. Focus fire is always effective, but spreading dmg around causes some vital pressure, and healers can't be watching everyone at once. Someone's gonna die.

Originally Posted by Catelyn

It will be like sadistic servants, in theory it's great, but while fighting it will be hard to use, and locks already die fast.

There is only one spell in Necromancy better than SS and that's SK. SS is a very good spell. And locks, believe it or not, actually have pretty decent survivability, played properly. Yeah, you're a high visibility target. You run around in a dress shooting fireballs. Everyone's still sore over when you terrored them last fight, and they want to kill you really bad. I get that. But that doesn't mean you can't survive, playing well, especially after the update when people won't be able to kill anyone in the space of a single knock.

Originally Posted by Catelyn

DoT won't be useful.

It's not supposed to be. Don't you get the point? SK is way too much sudden dmg, sudden healing, for a caster class which also has powerful nukes. It doesn't require thinking. It will now.


You don't randomly throw beetle swarms or silences around; you prioritise targets to throw those CCs on. So why should SK not be the same?

[Minorian]

Originally Posted by Necrovarus

It's not supposed to be. Don't you get the point? SK is way too much sudden dmg, sudden healing, for a caster class which also has powerful nukes. It doesn't require thinking. It will now.

I completely agree. Before it was way too good, a warlock had too many defenses for an offensive class.

Originally Posted by Necrovarus

You don't randomly throw beetle swarms or silences around; you prioritise targets to throw those CCs on. So why should SK not be the same?

I like that, now it isnt just another "I WIN!" spell with one click. Now you need to chose who it will be best on, maybe youll have to actually think, maybe it would be better on the person that will be around longer? The knight or buffed marks instead of the person you want dead.

[doppelapfel]

I dont think it will hurt me much, it will just make playing a lock more interesting and requiring more skill. I like it.

[Catelyn]

So what's more important, your life or their life? You're a lock, you don't have to put up with that shit

Actually the point is to win the fight no matter who dies, and I shouldn't stand in the way to gain some seconds by staying alive.

In other words, they're dying too fast. So if they're dying too fast...why the hell are you dying?

Because they hit me with 500+ from range, and I play in ignis horus, usually we don't have conj playing regularly (except erika and ori and maybe zord now). If 4 targets hit you, you will die fast, it works the other way round too.

I completely agree. Before it was way too good, a warlock had too many defenses for an offensive class.

Do you consider crowd control spells as defense? If not, we don't have defense, wind wall is not worth putting points in it now, element conjonction is useless too, most damage dealt is physical.

I get that. But that doesn't mean you can't survive, playing well, especially after the update when people won't be able to kill anyone in the space of a single knock.

If this is true, if barbs can't kill a lock in one kick time, if we won't have lost half hp after one ambush, then you may be right, we don't need it anymore.

Edit: just tried it on amun, a knight can hit me 3 times after kick 4. So a barb can easily kill a lock now. Nerfing soulkeeper is bad the way it goes. Maybe you should try it there and check.

[VandaMan]

Originally Posted by Necrovarus

and healers can't be watching everyone at once

I can.

Originally Posted by Necrovarus

There is only one spell in Necromancy better than SS and that's SK. SS is a very good spell.

Disagree O.o but I suppose you already know the way we play lock is quite different... Sadistic Servants is a PvP spell... in a real war it doesn't glean enough mana quickly enough to be useful, when you account for cooldown times, you should be using mana faster than ambitious sacrifice can regenerate it anyway.

If you're using it offensively to drain mana it's alright, but one target losing 600 mana or whatever it is now isn't a big deal, if it's a mage it doesn't matter a bit, if it's a marksman they didn't have 600 mana left in the first place, and if it's a barb they've already cast their buffs and are doing 1k normals.

Spells in necromancy more useful than SS: vampirism, old and new soul keeper, darkness, master of doom, cremation and possess summon (debatable)

Originally Posted by Necrovarus

And locks, believe it or not, actually have pretty decent survivability, played properly. Yeah, you're a high visibility target. You run around in a dress shooting fireballs. Everyone's still sore over when you terrored them last fight, and they want to kill you really bad. I get that. But that doesn't mean you can't survive, playing well, especially after the update when people won't be able to kill anyone in the space of a single knock.

Locks have decent survivability if you play like a bitch. If you're trying to fill your role as a top tier damage dealer, you're going to take a lot of damage though. I realize I'm one of like 3 warlocks on horus that does this... but when my group rushes another group, I'm right up there with them, balls deep. It may be true that nobody will kill anyone in a single knock in PvP, but when you just sultared 30 goats, ran into the middle of them with MoD, and crystal blasted them... do you know what happens when they stand up?

Originally Posted by Necrovarus

You don't randomly throw beetle swarms or silences around

Most do, unfortunately

[doppelapfel]

Originally Posted by VandaMan

Sadistic Servants is a PvP spell... in a real war it doesn't glean enough mana quickly enough to be useful, when you account for cooldown times, you should be using mana faster than ambitious sacrifice can regenerate it anyway.

If you're using it offensively to drain mana it's alright, but one target losing 600 mana or whatever it is now isn't a big deal, if it's a mage it doesn't matter a bit, if it's a marksman they didn't have 600 mana left in the first place, and if it's a barb they've already cast their buffs and are doing 1k normals.

What else do you use beside sacrifice (cant belive sacrifice is enough for any warlock)? Energy Borrow? This is more a PvP spell than ss in my eyes. Servants give you a lot more mana then borrow (borrow lvl 5: around 450-800 mana in 60 seconds, servants: 1,5k in 60 seconds), you can use it like a regeneration buff.

[VandaMan]

Originally Posted by doppelapfel

What else do you use beside sacrifice (cant belive sacrifice is enough for any warlock)? Energy Borrow? This is more a PvP spell than ss in my eyes. Servants give you a lot more mana then borrow (borrow lvl 5: around 450-800 mana in 60 seconds, servants: 1,5k in 60 seconds), you can use it like a regeneration buff.

Ambitious sacrifice has only a 25 second cooldown, and if you're not spamming ridiculously high mana cost spells it's quite enough to maintain fairly constant damage output. I don't use energy borrow either. The reason a lot of warlocks run out of mana is because their typical attack pattern is Sultar, magma blast, golem fist, summon lightning, master of doom.

Ambitious is 750 every 25 seconds, on lvl 4.

220 mana, lvl 5 meteor
170 mana, lvl 4 fireball
170 mana, lvl 4 lightning
200 mana, lvl 5 crystal blast

Is my main round of attack spells. That's 760 mana, plus you've got your base regen rate. You've got the rest of your mana pool for casting soul keeper/vampirism when needed, as well as refreshing your energy barrier.

[AntibioTsu]

Originally Posted by VandaMan

Ambitious sacrifice has only a 25 second cooldown, and if you're not spamming ridiculously high mana cost spells it's quite enough to maintain fairly constant damage output. I don't use energy borrow either. The reason a lot of warlocks run out of mana is because their typical attack pattern is Sultar, magma blast, golem fist, summon lightning, master of doom.

Ambitious is 750 every 25 seconds, on lvl 4.

220 mana, lvl 5 meteor
170 mana, lvl 4 fireball
170 mana, lvl 4 lightning
200 mana, lvl 5 crystal blast

Is my main round of attack spells. That's 760 mana, plus you've got your base regen rate. You've got the rest of your mana pool for casting soul keeper/vampirism when needed, as well as refreshing your energy barrier.

You're not taking into account expensive CC spells like Domain and Ivy (250 and 200 mana respectively, at lvl 3), not to mention you can cast all those 4 spells you mentioned twice before Ambitious is off cooldown, that doubles the mana expense (none of those has c/d higher than AS which is 25 secs).

Ofc you can just choose to cast each of these spells once inbetween rounds of Ambitious c/d, but then your firepower is way lower which even gets worse taking resists into account.

[Gabburtjuh]

are you ment to be able to use for 3k of mana on spells before having to rest or anything? Think of the devasting dmg you can do with just 3 or 4 spells, use it smart, i know the most ppl here are more experienced with lock as i am, but im doing dine with 1667 mana and alot of spammable spells

[VandaMan]

Originally Posted by Tsuku

You're not taking into account expensive CC spells like Domain and Ivy (250 and 200 mana respectively, at lvl 3),

Ofc you can just choose to cast each of these spells once inbetween rounds of Ambitious c/d, but then your firepower is way lower which even gets worse taking resists into account.[/QUOTE]

I don't use will domain, it's not mana efficient and is resisted too often. the spells I said are only 760 mana, which I sure hope isn't all of your mana, the rest is free for whatever else.

Originally Posted by Tsuku

not to mention you can cast all those 4 spells you mentioned twice before Ambitious is off cooldown, that doubles the mana expense (none of those has c/d higher than AS which is 25 secs).

Ofc you can just choose to cast each of these spells once inbetween rounds of Ambitious c/d, but then your firepower is way lower which even gets worse taking resists into account.

It doesn't double the mana expense. It's true that you can cast them twice in between the first two rounds of ambitious sacrifice, but only if you're standing still spamming spells the instant they're off GCD and CD. Even then the cooldowns for lightning and crystal blast are 20s, while ambitious is 25s. You lose that extra 5 seconds pretty easily with GCD and cast times, not to mention you're going to have to be moving around in between spells to stay in a good position.