Universal Soldier <-> Feurst (warlock)

[Nightchill]

Originally Posted by Mikan

Ok, Din_Harletto...

Cast on yourself:
Fire magnification +50 Fire damage
Ice magnification +50 Ice damage
Lightning magnification +50 Lightning damage
Combat magic +15% Damage
Dragon's blood +15 Intelligence (+~30 Damage)

Cast on you by another mage:
Fox wits +15 Intelligence (+~30 Damage)
Bless weapon +25% Damage

Cast on you by a Barbarian:
Onslaught +150 Blunt damage (for one hit only)
Off with their heads +15% Damage

Cast on enemy by a Marksman:
Death sentence +50% Ranged damage

Good LV50 Slow, range 25 staff with mixed damage
+Intelligence gear (up to +7 on each armor piece, giving +21 Inteligence or +~42 damage)
Rings (up to +50 Slash damage in Syrtis for example)
Amulet

Theoretical base attack: 300
Theoretical maximum damage output (Syrtis): 1,074 Normal hit

Regards.

i doubt all that happened there. maybe only ds. onls isn't since he had 2 consecutive hits of 700+, on that logic i'm writing off other barb buffs since onsl and owth usually come in pack. as for equipment, no rings like ds rings anywhere else then syrtis. as for full sm setup + dragon blood maxed out + int items that gives 500dmg shots if you get lucky.

[AntibioTsu]

Originally Posted by Nightchill

i doubt all that happened there. maybe only ds. onls isn't since he had 2 consecutive hits of 700+, on that logic i'm writing off other barb buffs since onsl and owth usually come in pack. as for equipment, no rings like ds rings anywhere else then syrtis. as for full sm setup + dragon blood maxed out + int items that gives 500dmg shots if you get lucky.

Dont forget Vespy's Amulet +50 lightning damage (which I find completly useless for warlocks... apart from the hp bonus which is good)

[n4gh4sh]

As you can see on this screenshot I've dealt 674 critical dmg which is more than I usually deal (my crits are about 500dmg without extra buffs - wits and bless wpn). My explanation is:

1. If I remember well we were all buffed with fox wits and bless weapon lvl5 from one of our other conjus
2. Fuerst is a warlock, so he deal more dmg than me (just because lock is an offensive class)(I'm a conju).
3. I'm quite sure he has Tenax ammy.
4. I'm quite sure he uses max dmg setup.
5. I'm quite sure he has +INT items

So he can deal that much dmg against enemy who doesn't use any extra protection.

To all SM haters - shut up. If this doesn't convice you, there's a lot of possibilities to mix SM with other skills including terror, tremor for conjus and even some mentals. There's enough points to make such setup working really effective.

[AntibioTsu]

Originally Posted by n4gh4sh

To all SM haters - shut up. If this doesn't convice you, there's a lot of possibilities to mix SM with other skills including terror, tremor for conjus and even some mentals. There's enough points to make such setup working really effective.

Lol sure, "shut up". What some ppl dont understand is that SM inst working like it's supposed to work, making it stronger than it should be. But ofc, there's always the ones who enjoy using it, and killing fast, without much work.

It's not about being a setup which may work fine or not with other skills, it's about SM buffs guaranteeing the mage a stupidly fast kill, either vs warriors, archers and other mages.

I dont hate SM, at all. I know how useful it is at PvE, and how fast you can grind using it. The only problem is the ones who use it at war. Having SM nerfed sadens me, and this is a case where every grinder will suffer, because of a few who use this discipline for war purposes.

[n4gh4sh]

Originally Posted by Tsuku

What some ppl dont understand is that SM inst working like it's supposed to work, making it stronger than it should be. But ofc, there's always the ones who enjoy using it, and killing fast, without much work.

As far as I know, something that isn't forbidden is permitted. NGD made it as it is so everyone is welcome to use it in the way they like it. If it's not working like it's supposed to, why NGD didn't change it for so long time ? I can tell you why - because it wouldn't work at all and no1 would use it. Edit: Think about levelling conjurer on higher lvls. There wouldn't be new high lvl conjurers in wz. Conju would be harder to level than knight.

Originally Posted by Tsuku

It's not about being a setup which may work fine or not with other skills, it's about SM buffs guaranteeing the mage a stupidly fast kill, either vs warriors, archers and other mages.

'stupidly fast kill' ? Ha - try playing like this and tell how cool it is when ur buffs expire in the middle of the battle. Or even worser - when SM mage got hit with Mind Sqausher rendering himself almost unusable if he doesn't have other skills to use in such a situation. That's the risk SM mages are taking and it's disadvantage other classes/setups are unaffected.
The SM mage vs knight = death. The SM mage vs markmen (with proper skills) = death. The SM mage vs warlock caster = death. Your just not telling the true.

Originally Posted by Tsuku

The only problem is the ones who use it at war.

There's no problem. Pls don't tell me that the problem is because there's a lot of complaints about it. It's only that most SM users don't wanna write such posts like mine and argue with all SM haters. The ppl who complain are just too lazy to think about a counter setup against SM mages, test it and use it if they think SM mages are the problem. I can think about at least few such setups for most classes. Maybe barbarian is the weakest here.

Originally Posted by Tsuku

I dont hate SM, at all. I know how useful it is at PvE, and how fast you can grind using it. (...) Having SM nerfed sadens me, and this is a case where every grinder will suffer (...)

At least one thing I can agree with in ur post.

PS. Don't think I'm so total SM lover. I just see the advantages of SM and find it useful even at war. Sad is I seem to be quite alone defending SM. But adding some bitterness to this discussion makes it more interesting .

Edit: +1 for misacc for pointing out the Hazis' mistakes. I totally agree with ya.

[ncvr]

Originally Posted by n4gh4sh

'stupidly fast kill' ? Ha - try playing like this and tell how cool it is when ur buffs expire in the middle of the battle. Or even worser - when SM mage got hit with Mind Sqausher rendering himself almost unusable if he doesn't have other skills to use in such a situation. That's the risk SM mages are taking and it's disadvantage other classes/setups are unaffected.
The SM mage vs knight = death. The SM mage vs markmen (with proper skills) = death. The SM mage vs warlock caster = death. Your just not telling the true.

It's extremely difficult to kill an SM mage as both a caster warlock and a marks. An SM warlock has the same control spells and faster health regeneration (vitality absorption). It's the same with a marks - you can just use mind push to keep him up close and prevent DS and strategic position from working. So you have a relatively easy time against 5 classes and a hard time against knights? I don't see how SM is balanced there.

[n4gh4sh]

Mind push is short range and it's hard to mind push even a warrior who keeps moving well (still it doesn't mean it's a waste of trying to use it). Fights against marksman in close range are reallly rare. Marksman has Winter Stroke and Ambush to prevent a mage from getting close.

MARKSMAN.Now I assume mage is buffed as well as marksman is buffed (Strategic Pos, Acrobatic, maybe something else). Marks using piggybacking of course (timing is crucial). Normall hit (~350), DS -> Normal hit (~500), Arcana Strike (~1k) -> Normal hit (~500), Serpent Bite (100/s) -> Normal hit (~500), Winter Strike*(~700) (or possibly Ignus Scorch). Enough. If not Arcana Strike again. Could be worth using Burst of Wind before SM conju puts Steel Skin (would make some normal hits deal decent dmg).

When marks is buffed SM mage deal 60% less normal dmg with all hits. Also would be much easier if marksman have Distracting Shot, but I understand it may be hard to obtain. This is only an outline of tactic, so please treat it as such.

About WARLOCKS. First I must say I (SM conju) really rarely can win 1 on 1 vs casting warlock. Sultar gives him enough time to use any spells to prevent me from dealing any damage. The only method is to dizzy such a warlock. Also Wind Wall is a great defensive spell. Elemental Exposure makes all elemental skills dealing lot more dmg.

In lock caster vs SM lock the chances are 50/50 I think. The one who first lock (sultar, dizzy or something like this) another warlock should win.

HUNTER should take advantage of their Camo and Distracting Shot and Ambush. Though they should run away if SM conju will have time to cast Steel Skin. Tear Apart and Break Apart could be useful here too. Just no point in dealing 40-60 dmg per shot.

KNIGHT. Lots of hp, blocking, decent armor. Only Mind Push can hold them back for longer time. Big possibility that SM buffs wear off when fighting him. This is a chance for a knight to get the SM mage when he's recasting them. Successful Mind Squasher renders SM mage unable to deal bigger amounts of damage. On the other side Mana Borrow can prevent him from using any skills quite easily (but not every SM mage have points to get this skill to a nice lvl).

BARB. Many barbs forget to use Caution. Only Onslaught an go. It's a bad tactic. Ons cancels some -% movement speed from Mind Push. Same thing with Mana Borrow. Barb is the weakest cos he may not have a chance to reach the SM mage.

When any warrior reaches SM mage he should do everything to prevent him from attacking. Feint, Kick - those may be worth using them on higher lvl than 1. Mostly warrior can kill SM mage with normal hits. Try to cancel SS with MS.

Those are only examples. There are plenty of tactics against SM mage. Using them could be sometimes tricky, but (sigh) this is Regnum - the tactic and teamplay game . Make use of it.

[AntibioTsu]

Originally Posted by n4gh4sh

'stupidly fast kill' ? Ha - try playing like this and tell how cool it is when ur buffs expire in the middle of the battle. Or even worser - when SM mage got hit with Mind Sqausher rendering himself almost unusable if he doesn't have other skills to use in such a situation. That's the risk SM mages are taking and it's disadvantage other classes/setups are unaffected.

I've already been a SM user, and I know its advantages and drawbacks, trust me. Sure it sucks when your buffs end in the middle of the fight or if you get MSed, but it's similar to Devotion ending while you're casting some spell. The c\d is different, but still in both cases you become useless. Same thing happens if anyone gets its buffs debuffed, like AoO or Madness, so your try to show how SM is weak has failed to convince me.


SM is a setup with which you can deal high damage at fast rate, without interference of Resistance of spells. So far there's only one way to deal with it, and it's reserved only to warriors using blunt. Other classes just cant deal with it, since sotw is futile vs normal hits, and other mages cant just counter it, unless you're a warju with karma mirror (?) or a Lock using Wind Wall in a very lucky day.


Like Necrovarus said, this isnt balanced at all, and it isn't logical that the only solution vs SM users is MS, which is conditioned to a 50% success rate.

[Comp]

I've been able to deal with this ONLY if:

1) Confuse lands to keep from steel skin/self heals/etc
2) Stunning fist lands to stop the onslaught of pain for a bit

If either of those fail...I'm pretty much fooked.