New Balance Update: Armor system fix (Stage 11)

Zas_ · 08-31-2010, 11:33 PM

Hmmm, i hope many steps are coming, because in the current state, petless hunter is just unable to do any serious harm with normals (it was hard with stage 10 and became very hard with stage 11).

You nerfed hunters a lot (speed, pet, spells, defense, normals, ...).

I don't think petless hunters are OP on Horus, but now on Amun, you made them unplayable (new spells are not enough to keep the fun imho).

Plus this new power system ....

And 0 dmg ....

That's just too much atm.

chilko · 09-01-2010, 12:38 AM

as I added to the original post... we turned off the min damage formula for testing purposes.

we found a lot of spells that where doing min damage because of a conceptual error in the armor system (DOTs for example)

TheMessenger · 09-01-2010, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilko

as I added to the original post... we turned off the min damage formula for testing purposes.

we found a lot of spells that where doing min damage because of a conceptual error in the armor system (DOTs for example)

I guess its because I dont understand programming but how does making people do 0s help with testing? :/

chilko · 09-01-2010, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMessenger

I guess its because I dont understand programming but how does making people do 0s help with testing? :/

it just does. we are debugging a system that has two formulas. We needed to remove one to verify the results of the other.

as always you should take AMUN as what it is, a development server with experimental stuff

Vaylos · 09-01-2010, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilko

as I added to the original post... we turned off the min damage formula for testing purposes.

we found a lot of spells that where doing min damage because of a conceptual error in the armor system (DOTs for example)

Chilko, thanks a bunch for taking the time to clarify. I think some of us didn't realize what exactly removing the minimum damage entailed for what we'd see on our end in the damage values. I've been keeping up to date with each stage, and I'm really really liking what I'm seeing in all aspects.

Truly, the balancing, and interaction with the player base has, in my honest opinion, seen some very good progress maybe the best ever, and I do hope to see a continuation of this as the game grows and evolves. I know this level of interaction is not the most efficient, and it doesn't -always- need to take place, but for major changes and balances, I think it helps a lot that devs and testers are consistently on the same page like this, and that information flow is adequate in both directions. I think it really helps with ensuring a good quality update.

I haven't had much chance to hop on Amun since my time doesn't allow for much these days, but I am truly looking forward to the changes. And I do try to hop on when I can. I've also been trying to hop on Horus more often in anticipation for when everything goes live.

I'm pretty much completely in agreement with Compost on the changes to hunter. My main character is a hunter. However, I cannot speak for barbarian or warlock since my characters aren't yet high enough level to really do any significant testing.

Looking forward to seeing how things progress from here, and it's looking great so far!

necroferos · 09-01-2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilko

as I added to the original post... we turned off the min damage formula for testing purposes.

we found a lot of spells that where doing min damage because of a conceptual error in the armor system (DOTs for example)

This mean that Sultar's Devouring Mass and Summon Lightning will do better damage? Because on Ra, the damage is very low.

Kaixo · 09-01-2010, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilko

as I added to the original post... we turned off the min damage formula for testing purposes.

we found a lot of spells that where doing min damage because of a conceptual error in the armor system (DOTs for example)

¿What kind of testing and feedback do you need?

Zordak · 09-01-2010, 05:16 PM

Level 5 imps on a giant toltar (normal at lvl50) deal 0 damage per hit.
Zombies damage is slightly better.
Testing both on giant ignean gargoyles (easy at lvl50) yields similar results, just the zombies damage is close to 0 as well.

Any chance we can get summon damage displayed in the log? It is very hard to tell if actually all 5 imps and zombies do proper hits right now: The numbers are super-imposed (zeros...). Yet it still feels like some hits are missing. A log would certainly help debugging and give us a basis for damage balance discussions.

The bug requiring to reselct your target after summoning remains for some of the spells. Working on the summon tree seems a nice opportunity to purge it; it has become a lot more annoying with the cast-during-fight changes.

Overall I like the idea of having group summons with less damage.
I think though, youre missing the opportunity to give the spelltree a support option - either by introducing damage-free summons that assist allies with buffs/heals or by disabling enemies with CC.
Or even something simple like a wall summon, a blocking obstacle with some hp and duration. The possibilities of summoning are poorly exploited since the trees design paradigm has not changed at all.

I really like the new zombies and the lich shaman design.

Z.

UmarilsStillHere · 09-01-2010, 05:38 PM

I agree that as well as damage dealer summons healers, debuffers, cc'er would all be a nice addition.

mr_scsi · 09-01-2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zordak

Or even something simple like a wall summon, a blocking obstacle with some hp and duration.

That would be really handy just after a fort door gives way to buy that precious extra few seconds to rally........

Or casting one BEHIND enemy on a bridge so they cant run away........

Or casting on in the middle of the green zerg to split their defences........

I can think of endless possibilities for this type of spell and I think they would all add to the fun-o-meter...... suggestion thread?

08-31-2010, 11:33 PM	#1
Zas_ Count Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: France Posts: 1,024	Hmmm, i hope many steps are coming, because in the current state, petless hunter is just unable to do any serious harm with normals (it was hard with stage 10 and became very hard with stage 11). You nerfed hunters a lot (speed, pet, spells, defense, normals, ...). I don't think petless hunters are OP on Horus, but now on Amun, you made them unplayable (new spells are not enough to keep the fun imho). Plus this new power system .... And 0 dmg .... That's just too much atm. __________________ Annavilya / War-Luck (Haven)

09-01-2010, 05:16 PM	#8
Zordak Master Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 451	Level 5 imps on a giant toltar (normal at lvl50) deal 0 damage per hit. Zombies damage is slightly better. Testing both on giant ignean gargoyles (easy at lvl50) yields similar results, just the zombies damage is close to 0 as well. Any chance we can get summon damage displayed in the log? It is very hard to tell if actually all 5 imps and zombies do proper hits right now: The numbers are super-imposed (zeros...). Yet it still feels like some hits are missing. A log would certainly help debugging and give us a basis for damage balance discussions. The bug requiring to reselct your target after summoning remains for some of the spells. Working on the summon tree seems a nice opportunity to purge it; it has become a lot more annoying with the cast-during-fight changes. Overall I like the idea of having group summons with less damage. I think though, youre missing the opportunity to give the spelltree a support option - either by introducing damage-free summons that assist allies with buffs/heals or by disabling enemies with CC. Or even something simple like a wall summon, a blocking obstacle with some hp and duration. The possibilities of summoning are poorly exploited since the trees design paradigm has not changed at all. I really like the new zombies and the lich shaman design. Z. __________________ Based on facts, as I choose to see them.

09-01-2010, 05:38 PM	#9
UmarilsStillHere Marquis Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: England Posts: 2,419	I agree that as well as damage dealer summons healers, debuffers, cc'er would all be a nice addition. __________________ Faith 50 Barb Faithless 50 Lock Umaril 45 Conju Kailas 45 Marks Pel 45 Knight I N Q U I S I T I O N

09-01-2010, 12:38 AM	#2
chilko NGD·Studios Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 892	as I added to the original post... we turned off the min damage formula for testing purposes. we found a lot of spells that where doing min damage because of a conceptual error in the armor system (DOTs for example)