Current state of the International Proletarian Revolution

[veluchami]

Originally Posted by Godot

I think its the best thread I've yet seen on the forums.
+1 Vy for starting it (for what its worth I lean pretty far to the left also)
I dont think of it as a political thread even, its a concern for his fellow
beings; no matter their political affiliation.

+1 G. The terms 'communists' 'comrades' have been politicized. The issue in itself is a human rights problem. So you just search and replace the term 'communism' with 'human right activism' and 'comrades' with 'fellow human beings' the same people who vehemently oppose this thread would stand in queue to sign up... It just saddens me to see people who doesn't want to think and would just lap up all that's fed to them by the powers that be. :/ But as I said, hunger will overrule all that and make em see through all the bullshit

[DkySven]

People will by standard only do what's best for them or their loved ones. If that includes stealing from other people or denying other people access to certain resources they will handle that way. The idea of everybody being equal is a nice one, but because of the way people think, it will never work.

There's no good or bad in the world, only we and they.

[Godot]

Originally Posted by DkySven

People will by standard only do what's best for them or their loved ones. If that includes stealing from other people or denying other people access to certain resources they will handle that way. The idea of everybody being equal is a nice one, but because of the way people think, it will never work.

There's no good or bad in the world, only we and they.

Sadly evidenced by the opposition to universal healthcare taking place
right now in the United States.
Whats even sadder is; it doesn't have to be that way.
If the corporate entities that drive the "I got mine, F$%^ YOU" attitude
had the roles reversed with perhaps an urban youth or blue collar worker
they'd change their tune so fast we'd see if Hawking was correct about
lightspeed.

[Vythica]

Originally Posted by DkySven

People will by standard only do what's best for them or their loved ones. If that includes stealing from other people or denying other people access to certain resources they will handle that way. The idea of everybody being equal is a nice one, but because of the way people think, it will never work.

There's no good or bad in the world, only we and they.

Dky,
That's not what the Revolution will be about. The Revolution will be about each worker emancipating himself and by doing so he will emancipate his brothers and sisters. Human being's self interest can be used to the benefit for all.

Edit: The aim of the French Revolution was to get rid of the single monarchy, who controlled everything.

Henri,
You're absolutely right, but the French, and American revolutions were Bourgeoisie revolutions. The were started by the Bourgeoisie against the Monarch. These are the revolutions where the Capitalists emancipate themselves and the road to Communism starts. Without the Bourgeoisie revolutions, no Proletariat will be formed and without that class identity he will never realize his plight, and never be emancipated. Lucky for us that the path to Communism is an inevitable one. And the Capitalists have helped us by throwing the yoke of the monarch and they've setup the means of production, just waiting to be confiscated by the state.

To sum it up. Don't compare the French Revolution's barbarism and exploitation to a Proletarian Revolution. And, while there will be bloodshed, we are not the bourgeoisie.

[Llayne]

Pinko commie socialist marxist fascist!

lol... you know I wuv you.

The counter argument could be that if you get rid of classes and therefore human ambition no one will try to reach for the stars or whatever and humanity will not progress. Or to put it another way, greed drives us, motivates us.

Is that motivation a good thing? I dunno...

[terekon]

Before we were societies as we know it we were ppl. There were no jobs, the only thing there was to do was survive. What drove us then? Was it our need to one day develop a super badass car? Or was it simply to not be eaten by some crazy ass animal running around thinking we were delicious...

The difference between then and now is that of the calf and the bull, our drive is different now. What we do is not for our survival but for our own self satisfaction. We are brought up to believe thats what we need. To be the best at this or get this job. In the end we all die and all your personal success will be for not. Your children will grow up in a polluted world as economic slaves to a monopolized system that sends them to foreign countries to kill poor ppl that pray to a different god.

It is easier to go along with the flow of traffic. Like sheep doing what your Sheperd tells you, or you can work toward something that can change the direction your system is moving toward. Take the blinders off and choose not to follow down the path of mediocrity. Yes in the capitalist system ppl have a drive, but who bennefits? Enron, Tyco, Bank of America, Chevron, Exxon Mobile.

I dont know about you but i think they are doing fine without my help.

[Llayne]

I wasn't disagreeing with you so much as making an argument from the capitalists perspective.

I am not sure doing away with ambition would be a good thing as why would anyone want to think and dream big? That's not to say I am a big fan of capitalism though.

You have some valid points I agree with but sadly this is the world we live in. You say do something to change it... if I thought posting on forums could accomplish this I would not spend so much time in game

[terekon]

posting in forums is what i do when im not out changing the world. Or killing elves and goats...

[terekon]

Originally Posted by DkySven

People will by standard only do what's best for them or their loved ones. If that includes stealing from other people or denying other people access to certain resources they will handle that way. The idea of everybody being equal is a nice one, but because of the way people think, it will never work.

There's no good or bad in the world, only we and they.

This is the world we live in today. That doesnt mean that things cannot be changed. Everyone must open their eyes, must wake up that the only wake to protect yourself and your family is to have the support of your fellow man. Our current selfish state is what has made the world what it is today.

Corporations running rampant, pollution overflowing into our oceans, war over resources is already taking over on every level. (Try going to school in the US without seeing recruiters on a semi regular basis) We are all sheep, we must wake from our slumber of feeding on the endless consumer driven war against our lively hood. Until every "prol" wakes up with their fist in the in air, and "a pocket full of shells" (rage against the machine) we will all still be slaves...

[UmarilsStillHere]

Man kind is by nature compettitive, this is why capitalism works, it feeds off competition, who has the better job, who has the better product etc, if competition is removed then so is the incentive to be the best, and thus progress is slowed.

At some point people decided they could do better than a cave, and made huts and tents, then others decided they could do better so made houses then we moved onto increasingly bigger and better buildings all diven by trying to be the best. If everyone was content with what they had we would still be sitting in caves thinking 'well this is nice'

Capitalism and Communism being opposite can hardly co-exist, and there are few examples of communism acctualy working, for it to come even close it would need to be world wide 'workers of the world unite' was a slogan for it at one point. But even then 'some are more equal than others' those in power will always want more and those in power rarely want to give power up (yet a key point of communism is the removal of class's and government). Also if everything is divided evenly, a cleaner working a few hours a week gets the same as a surgeon working 14 hour shifts 6 days a week, then why would people shoot high? Theres no point to try to be the best because you dont gain from your extra work. So production and the number of people in high-end jobs will drop drastically.

Besides, if you want to overthrow capitalism that is dominant over most of the worlds surface then you will need to 'open the eyes' of literaly billions of people, a subforum in a tiny little MMO is hardly going to make an impact in the grand scale of things

Dont get me wrong, both systems have their evils, there is no denying that, but Id rather stick with the bent-but-working system than gamble on one that has had little testing and less success.