Serious out-of-balance with hunters

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Originally Posted by Valorius

Blow me cockroach.

oh believe me how much I've dreamt about it rauw

I remember last time I tried giving you advice, using a defensive setup and you said the same thing too, maybe... I'll soon see a pet saying "valorius rageway" if you ever decide to come back.

[CumeriTarenes]

Originally Posted by Angelwinged_Devil

I remember last time I tried giving you advice, using a defensive setup and you said the same thing too, maybe... I'll soon see a pet saying "valorius rageway" if you ever decide to come back.

AWD, you don't even know how archers skills are working (you proofed it in another thread) but you wanna say a very experinced hunter how to change a setup..."Mr balance" seems to know all best

I think Valorius was very successful with her setup

Also, I don't understand this: On the one hand you say he should use a defensive setup, on the other hand you call her "runaway"

He played mostly petless, so he had an evasive setup...

[DemonMonger]

hunters are not out of balance at all
Other people that feel hunter are out of balance need to first get to level 50
then they need to reset powers and find out the perfect combination of skills
you cant use all offensive and expect to win easy....
you cant pick all defensive and expect to live..
balance yourself with the skills you have and youll see that the only problem with balance was from within yourself! And the skills you have chosen....

personally i know hunter is not perfectly balanced until level 50.... same with warlock....

[Comp]

You know....I'm beginning to think that the balance issue isn't as bad as many think.

I initially posted this because of all the other' complaining and I was trying to be a good "community mate" and make it more well known. So let me think out loud if I may.

A hunter who deploys SoW + hide is using the tools given to him to evade or attack. Okay, I can agree that NGD probably has a greater end in mind for all other classes to counter this combination. However, if you think about it all classes can already counter this.

In my opinion (now that I have slept on it) all classes already have tools to defeat the elusive hunter; however, very few deploy them. Perhaps it is because they only want to see death and much RP and choose not to put points into that discipline. I myself do not use confuse because I want to have a pet and hit a bit harder. Anyway, lets go down the list:

The following skills are available for use to keep a hunter from using any defensive (or offensive) spells:

Conjurer:
- Silence
- Tremor

Warlock:
- Meteor
- MOD

Knights (Disadvantage - no area):
- Shield bash

Barbs:
- Howl

Archers:
- Confuse

I'm sure there are more - but those are the one's I know off the top of my head. The only one here with a disadvantage is knights as they do not have an area dizzy or a ranged dizzy.

I'm actually quite happy that this thread has caused so much dialogue within the community.

[CumeriTarenes]

I agree with you compoundius. But you also have to agree that hunters became a bit stronger with last update. Before camo was an defensive spell mainly, after the updae a hunter can use camo for both, combined with sotw


The changelog says this:

- Spell: Camouflage: Minor duration adjustments, its function changed from defensive to offensive. Pet hides with the owner as well.

But actually it is both, offensive and defensive. Hunter were very balanced before the update in my opinion, only bad for them was that pets did not get invisible. But now they have a very bit too much power imho.

It is realy only a very bit, and actually it is no big deal for me. But it would be nice to see in the next update either implemented a counter spell for sotw and/or camo while it is active or make it that hunters cannot cast camo when beeing attacked. You don't even have to change sotw, because you can still atack when the hunter is under sotw. So any attack, it doesn't matter if evaded, blocked or resisted should cancel camo....the same mechanism that works when you try to log out or to change charaker while beeing attacked. Because, as it is now you can compare camo with loging out...you have almost now chance to get the hunter under camo

[fluffy_muffin]

Originally Posted by Solarus

Conjurer:
- Silence
- Tremor

Warlock:
- Meteor
- MOD

Add Darkness and combine it with slow and ivy.
5 lvl slow is real pain :]

[DemonMonger]

Originally Posted by Solarus

You know....I'm beginning to think that the balance issue isn't as bad as many think.

I initially posted this because of all the other' complaining and I was trying to be a good "community mate" and make it more well known. So let me think out loud if I may.

A hunter who deploys SoW + hide is using the tools given to him to evade or attack. Okay, I can agree that NGD probably has a greater end in mind for all other classes to counter this combination. However, if you think about it all classes can already counter this.

In my opinion (now that I have slept on it) all classes already have tools to defeat the elusive hunter; however, very few deploy them. Perhaps it is because they only want to see death and much RP and choose not to put points into that discipline. I myself do not use confuse because I want to have a pet and hit a bit harder. Anyway, lets go down the list:

The following skills are available for use to keep a hunter from using any defensive (or offensive) spells:

Conjurer:
- Silence
- Tremor

Warlock:
- Meteor
- MOD

Knights (Disadvantage - no area):
- Shield bash

Barbs:
- Howl

Archers:
- Confuse

I'm sure there are more - but those are the one's I know off the top of my head. The only one here with a disadvantage is knights as they do not have an area dizzy or a ranged dizzy.

I'm actually quite happy that this thread has caused so much dialogue within the community.

Thank god you see the light!!!!!
Balance lies within the players themselves .... they must find and use thier skills

[octopus]

Originally Posted by Solarus

The following skills are available for use to keep a hunter from using any defensive (or offensive) spells:

Conjurer:
- Silence
- Tremor

Silence: can't be cast while Confused.
Tremor: can't be cast while Confused.
While playing a conjurer, Confuse was almost always the first spell cast on me by hunters. Once confused, a support conjurer will be dead long before the 35 to 40 second Confuse wears off.
If by some miracle the conjurer resists Confuse, and manages to start casting Tremor or Silence, she will probably not finish casting those slow spells before she is hit with Ambush or the hunter moves behind her, and the spell is wasted.

Originally Posted by Solarus

Warlock:
- Meteor
- MOD

Meteor: Most likely will be evaded by a hunter. If it isn't evaded, the hunter can utilize their superior speed to either move out of range of the warlock, or move behind him, canceling his slow spells.
MoD: This spell is really nice, however it costs over 500 mana at level 1, and is very slow to cast. Chances are, a warlock will never finish the spell before he is hit with Ambush, wasting the spell. If the warlock is lucky enough to finish casting it, the graphical effects are obvious that it is on, and it's not difficult for a speedy hunter to stay out of range of this spell.

Originally Posted by Solarus

I'm actually quite happy that this thread has caused so much dialogue within the community.

I agree, Solarus. I'm glad you initiated this thread, and I appreciate your ideas and thoughts on balance. I respect your point of view (and Wudy's too), because you seem interested in the overall balance of the game, while many other hunters just say "stop whining" or "end of discussion" because they want to continue with their nearly invincible condition.

I have stated my point of view several times, so I won't go into details, but to me it seems that hunters now face almost no risk of getting killed. They can attack a party of 4 or 5, kill the weakest quickly, and escape with hardly a scratch. Most spells are evaded, they can very quickly get out of range of attacks with just their base speed, and can fall back on SoW and Camo if they start to take some damage. About the only time I see a hunter die is if the group contains hunters as well, and/or multiple barbarians who can Onslaught each other alternately to catch the hunter quickly. I think your suggestion would do much to balance things out again. Hunters would still be deadly, but would face at least some risk when attacking a group of enemies.

[CumeriTarenes]

Originally Posted by octopus

Silence: can't be cast while Confused.
Tremor: can't be cast while Confused.
While playing a conjurer, Confuse was almost always the first spell cast on me by hunters. Once confused, a support conjurer will be dead long before the 35 to 40 second Confuse wears off.
If by some miracle the conjurer resists Confuse, and manages to start casting Tremor or Silence, she will probably not finish casting those slow spells before she is hit with Ambush or the hunter moves behind her, and the spell is wasted.

support conjus are dead meat anyway when they face any class without allies. (except they face an enemy support conju )

And to confuse, you have a fair chance to cast tremor or silence before the hunter casts confuse on you. It is clear that the player which gets the first shoot has a big advantage. Since hunters are made for hunting they do the first shoot most of the time. The new camo even allows them to stand right behind you and you won't notice. These facts are ppl pissing off, they simply are frutrated because they died, without a realy fair chance to win.
And...if they manage to almost win the fight the hunter has a high chance (highest chance of all classes) to escape. This realy pisses many ppl off. They can hardly kill a hunterbut they are most often killed by them. But...this is how the hunter class is designed. You won't change anything with just some spell changes. Either you accept the hunter as it is or you have to change the whole class totally. What do you want a hunter to be? A marksman with crippled damage spells, a pet and tracking skills? Would be no fun to play a hunter then I guess.
Only change that is needed for hunter class is to cancel casting camo when under attack. It would prevent hunters from escaping every fight the hunter doesn't want to fight. As already mmentioned in another thread a hunter cannot cast sotw and camo in the middle of the fight because he lacks mana. But a hunter can use sotw and camo combination when he simply wants to avoid to fight. No other class can do. When the hunter does not want to fight he can track and he can run, since he is fastet class in game.

Originally Posted by octopus

I agree, Solarus. I'm glad you initiated this thread, and I appreciate your ideas and thoughts on balance. I respect your point of view (and Wudy's too), because you seem interested in the overall balance of the game, while many other hunters just say "stop whining" or "end of discussion" because they want to continue with their nearly invincible condition.

I agree too. Just telling stop whining will not solve anything. But only whining will sove nothing too.

[DemonMonger]

Originally Posted by octopus

Silence: can't be cast while Confused.
Tremor: can't be cast while Confused.
While playing a conjurer, Confuse was almost always the first spell cast on me by hunters. Once confused, a support conjurer will be dead long before the 35 to 40 second Confuse wears off.
If by some miracle the conjurer resists Confuse, and manages to start casting Tremor or Silence, she will probably not finish casting those slow spells before she is hit with Ambush or the hunter moves behind her, and the spell is wasted.



Meteor: Most likely will be evaded by a hunter. If it isn't evaded, the hunter can utilize their superior speed to either move out of range of the warlock, or move behind him, canceling his slow spells.
MoD: This spell is really nice, however it costs over 500 mana at level 1, and is very slow to cast. Chances are, a warlock will never finish the spell before he is hit with Ambush, wasting the spell. If the warlock is lucky enough to finish casting it, the graphical effects are obvious that it is on, and it's not difficult for a speedy hunter to stay out of range of this spell.



I agree, Solarus. I'm glad you initiated this thread, and I appreciate your ideas and thoughts on balance. I respect your point of view (and Wudy's too), because you seem interested in the overall balance of the game, while many other hunters just say "stop whining" or "end of discussion" because they want to continue with their nearly invincible condition.

I have stated my point of view several times, so I won't go into details, but to me it seems that hunters now face almost no risk of getting killed. They can attack a party of 4 or 5, kill the weakest quickly, and escape with hardly a scratch. Most spells are evaded, they can very quickly get out of range of attacks with just their base speed, and can fall back on SoW and Camo if they start to take some damage. About the only time I see a hunter die is if the group contains hunters as well, and/or multiple barbarians who can Onslaught each other alternately to catch the hunter quickly. I think your suggestion would do much to balance things out again. Hunters would still be deadly, but would face at least some risk when attacking a group of enemies.

its only a matter of lvl + high skill vs low lvl + no skill
the same thing you are talking about happened at ignis save with a (syritis
barbarian)
i the hunter wouldnt catch him... he ran and killed everyone... im sure ignis remembers these days of horror....

you complain about hunter running behind you....
there are several ways to solve this..
ILL HELP YOU THINK SINCE YOU ARE slow....
Mind push.... or slow ... solved.... mind push can be cast every 8 seconds...

you say meteor doesn hit the hunter to stop camo...
dude... you dont even need meteor anymore... change to a fast speed staff and just use basic shots... they will get through ....

I dont have problems with my warlock vs 1 2 or even 3 hunters....

again think.... you can drain life of pet when you get low.. and re barrier...
master of doom you COMPLAIN THAT ITS 500 MANA!!!! omg thats sad man... you can sap life to gain more mana.. or sap nearby enemies / monsters for mana... if you dont have the know how and ability to use your skills and adapt... then no matter what you are always going to suck....
all you have to do.. is wait for the hunter to cast ambush .. after he wasted it.. then cast master of doom.. I KNOW YOU CAN THINK TO DO THIS!!!... now i told you ... so you are welcome...

If you dont like spell elude... why dont you use staff mastery? ... it owns all archers marksman/hunter it owns knights/barbs... its just not great vs other warlocks... you must choose what you want to be good at killing... you cant dominate everyone with a single setup.... Complain again.. I suggest you grow and develop yourself.. or fall back into the line of rejects...

I am not saying don't change things because i want to keep my so called "god like powers"... Just wait until your class gets Dispell... its fast casting... you can spam it on the hunter .. all you need is 1 to hit... then the hunter loses all his defences... you can follow with vampire drain soulkeeper + barrier... drain mana.. and rape him.... stop crying... Warlocks and conjurers have way more power and abilities than a hunter...
The only dowside of warlock is that its slow at running... but guess what.. you can buy a horse! <OMG A HORSE!>

listen.. warlock vs hunter....

barrier first
vampire drain on pet as soon as you lose 400 life...
when the hunter comes in close to fist you dont panic... just recast barrier or master of doom
crystal blast on him and his pet as fist wears off....
by now you may have lost 1000 life.. so use soul keeper on pet... (its dead)
re barrier... hunter may try to camo....
(if the hunter stands still)
change to a fast cast staff <you should always use these in combat anyways>
just face him and basic shot it will pass through son of wind and cancel camo....

IF YOU HAD STAFF MASTERY SKILLS THE FIGHT WOULD HAVE BEEN WON BY THE WARLOCK IN 15 seconds.... and you have less to worry about with hunter running and camoing...
staff mastery 19
mental 19
necro 19
mana control 19 (second personal favorite)

try it... owns all

if you dont like this... try
element 19.... FIREBALL , MAGMA BLAST(or iceblast), LIGHTNING
mental 19 ... IVY AND MINDPUSH HERE!!!
necro 19 ... SADISTIC SERVANTS, SOUL KEEPER, VAMPIRE DRAIN
mana control 19 BARRIER, MANA BURN, and so on... (my personal favorite)

look at this as well... http://regnumonlinegame.com/forum/sh...096#post323096