Current state of the International Proletarian Revolution

[Torg_Snowflake]

You would be surprised by the number of people that would choose the toilet cleaning.

I would also want to do something I like tough.

I had debated and talked with many. Some people have valid ways of apllying socialist ideals to democracy. Some think you need a central power to be sure you keep everything "equal" but then you create a power over the human, just another facade for any opressing ruling. Then you have the utopia beliviers that just can't get out of pure theory and will never be able to apply anything to real life. Then again, some are idiots that can't acomplish anything and belive a system that does not prize acomplishment will be better for themselves.

[Vythica]

Originally Posted by Torg_Snowflake

Then again, some are idiots that can't acomplish anything and belive a system that does not prize acomplishment will be better for themselves.

Hard work and accomplishment are rewarded in a communist society. The reward is just spread between everyone. But we wouldn't want that would we? Mine, mine, mine, I suppose.

[Torg_Snowflake]

Originally Posted by Vythica

Hard work and accomplishment are rewarded in a communist society. The reward is just spread between everyone. But we wouldn't want that would we? Mine, mine, mine, I suppose.

A human beign doesn't get a sense of acomplishment easly. Has to do with motivational factors. I know the "reward" would push society forward, but it need to be somewhat palpable for the individual to make him feel like he progessed.

Keep the sarcastic/ironic bits to yourself.

[Vythica]

Originally Posted by Torg_Snowflake

A human being doesn't get a sense of accomplishment easily. Has to do with motivational factors. I know the "reward" would push society forward, but it need to be somewhat palpable for the individual to make him feel like he progressed.

Keep the sarcastic/ironic bits to yourself.

I think that when one no longer has to work 3 jobs 90 hrs a week to feed his family, that the average worker will feel like he's progressed. Not only that, but in a communist society there will be more time for leisure and so man will also get his sense of accomplishment from the art he creates or the songs he sings or the sports that he excels in.

And thank you very much, I'll use whatever modes of linguistic expression available to the English language to convey my point. I will not remove sarcasm nor irony from the arsenal of my tongue.

[JennyfromtheBlock]

All human suffering springs from unbridled desire. Unless one extricates oneself from the clutch of greed, one will not free himself from the fetters of sorrow. - Vellupillai Pirapakaran

[Godot]

I see it in a more black and white mindset.
Capitalists are highly materialistic and goal oriented on the personal level.
Where a socialistic person is in it for the team win, they dont worry so much
about the 60 inch lcd tv on the wall or the porsche in the garage ,he is
concerned more with food for his elderly neighbor or the kid down the street
with cancer that cant afford chemo.
Yes greed is a motivator; but at what cost?
I gotta look in the mirror everyday, if the guy looking back hurts others
just to get a little more for himself....I dont want to be that guy.

[Vythica]

Originally Posted by Godot

I gotta look in the mirror everyday, if the guy looking back hurts others
just to get a little more for himself....I dont want to be that guy.

Well said Godot.

[makarios68]

Swap Capitalism for what exactly?

Various alternatives have been tried and all have failed.

All that happens is one set of bullies gets replaced with another.

The reason for this is simple: most people don't want power, they don't want to rule or to govern. They just want to raise their families in peace.

But there are a minority of people who crave power. And it is these people that we need to be wary of. There has to be a political system in place which ensures that these power-hungry people don't take excess liberties with the power they are given.

In this respect the capitalist system is the best in human history. Our leaders are accountable to us, we can kick them out of office at voting time, they can be brought to trial for wrongdoings - we can even openly mock them in the media.

Don't get me wrong, capitalism is a long way from being perfect - i'm well aware of it's failings.

I'm just saying that is the best political system to date.

As for Marxism - it has a very useful role as a critique of capitalism. It shines the spotlight on the failings of capitalism.

But if you shout for a revoltion - you need to be careful.

You never know what you'll get!

[Vythica]

Originally Posted by makarios68

Swap Capitalism for what exactly?

Various alternatives have been tried and all have failed.

All that happens is one set of bullies gets replaced with another.

The reason for this is simple: most people don't want power, they don't want to rule or to govern. They just want to raise their families in peace.

But there are a minority of people who crave power. And it is these people that we need to be wary of. There has to be a political system in place which ensures that these power-hungry people don't take excess liberties with the power they are given.

In this respect the capitalist system is the best in human history. Our leaders are accountable to us, we can kick them out of office at voting time, they can be brought to trial for wrongdoings - we can even openly mock them in the media.

Don't get me wrong, capitalism is a long way from being perfect - i'm well aware of it's failings.

I'm just saying that is the best political system to date.

As for Marxism - it has a very useful role as a critique of capitalism. It shines the spotlight on the failings of capitalism.

But if you shout for a revoltion - you need to be careful.

You never know what you'll get!

Capitalism isn't a political system. Neither is Communism. They are economic theories, one based on exploiting the average worker, the other based on his emancipation.

As for leader accountability, in a Communist society there would be nothing stopping the people from holding their leaders accountable, trying them for misdeeds etc. Actually it would probably be much more efficient and leaders would actually be prosecuted instead of walking free like they do today, hiding under the skirts of big business.

Marxism DOES shine a light on the one giant failing of Capitalism. It's based on exploitation. That's what Marxism teaches us.

EDIT: I forgot to point out that I'm eagerly awaiting the Revolution.

[makarios68]

Originally Posted by Vythica

Capitalism isn't a political system. Neither is Communism. They are economic theories, one based on exploiting the average worker, the other based on his emancipation.

I haven't really got the time to dabble with semantics. Suffice it to say that political theory and political practice are very closely inter-linked.

Originally Posted by Vythica

As for leader accountability, in a Communist society there would be nothing stopping the people from holding their leaders accountable

The terms 'communist society' and 'leaders' are not compatible. A communist society is supposed to have no leader/s. Which is why i pointed out that the vast majority of people do not want to rule or govern. This task will always fall upon those who hunger for it - in effect, the politicians. I don't believe it is possible for a communist society to exist in the utopian image that some people have. This is because the vast majority of people are not political enough to be interested in running their society. And so we pass the burden to others who are willing to do the task.

This is why we need a political system that reigns in the worst excesses of the power-hungry. In a capitalist system we might get a retired actor or a bumbling fool as leader, but at least it isn't Stalin or a Chairman Mau. These tyrants were allowed their excesses under a different kind of system.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Vythica

Actually it would probably be much more efficient and leaders would actually be prosecuted instead of walking free like they do today, hiding under the skirts of big business.

I agree completely here. As i said, i am aware of the failings.

Originally Posted by Vythica

Marxism DOES shine a light on the one giant failing of Capitalism. It's based on exploitation. That's what Marxism teaches us.

Yes it is. But so were the so-called communist examples we have in our history. These were based on exploitation too - they only difference is, they didn't tell us at the beginning.

Originally Posted by Vythica

EDIT: I forgot to point out that I'm eagerly awaiting the Revolution.

Good luck with that